I think there's also a tradition to toss in some bread...?

Subject: I think there's also a tradition to toss in some bread...?
Author: DawnFire
Posted on: 2015-09-17 16:18:00 UTC

Pieces, that is? That's what I remember from a while ago, anyway, and some conversations I've had with my friends about ducks would seem to confirm it. I get the feeling it's just a tradition, though--if nothing else, the Artscroll machzor doesn't mention it that I saw.

Something cool that I learned this year, though, is that you're not limited to doing Tashlikh on Rosh Hashana itself--you can do it not only until Yom Kippur, but until Hoshana Rabbah--this year, that's October 4th. There's something like a three-week window. And neither I not my parents knew until this year, which explains why we haven't done it in a while. Wild, huh?

A bit more information: according, again, to the Artscroll machzor (special prayerbook for the High Holidays, for anyone who doesn't know and would like to), there are a whole bunch of prayers that you say--close to ten or fifteen, IIRC, though that's a complete estimate. I'm also pretty sure that outside the Orthodox movement there's a shorter version--I don't remember it being *that* long when I was a kid. The Artscroll says the same as Des for Tashlikh's time of origin, though I think it placed it even earlier (or else just have a more vague description of the time period). And while it's entirely likely that it was a practice adopted from a different culture, there are certainly reasons for it--I'd have to look again to see what they are, but I think there were two connections made with water and biblical occurrences. Basically--whatever it was originally, if it was adopted from somewhere else then it's been made quite meaningful.

~DF

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[shofar noises in the distance] by Rats on 2015-09-15 04:58:00 UTC Reply

L'shana tovah to all my fellow Jews hereabouts! Any favorite parts about the new year? (I'm partial to the apples and honey, myself :""D)

This goyim find "L'shana tovah" is supposed to be a greeting by darklordaakmal on 2015-09-15 13:09:00 UTC Reply

So today's Jewish New Year? Care to tell more about the calendar and celebration?

Malaysia is having a Malaysia Day tomorrow, 16th September, and the greeting is Selamat Hari Malaysia.

I'll probably add more details about the holiday... by DawnFire on 2015-09-17 16:04:00 UTC Reply

...to the mix later, but as I don't seem to be getting to that yet, I'll just put in one thing--goyim is a Hebrew word and is actually plural. Goy is singular. You otherwise used it correctly, though :)

And another language note--people don't always have the l' attached, so one hears shana tova equally frequently (or more frequently, in my experience). What's the difference? Shana tova literally means 'good year', and is used as, essentially, 'happy new year'. L'shana tova is more in line with 'to a good year'--the wording is about how you'd phrase it if you were making a toast: l'shana tova! L'chaim! See? I assume it's used about the same way as 'shana tova', though--Rats, do please correct me if that's not how you've heard it? Like I said, I'm more used to hearing it as shana tova without the l'.

/this has been Language Learning with DawnFire.

Also,Selamat Hari Malaysia one day late! Did you have fun? I know you described in general what people do--did you do anything differently?

(Also, I get the feeling this is the first time we've spoken in a while, which, considering we had some good conversations back in 2013, is a shame. How've you been?)

~DF

We are figuring out how to enjoy it. by darklordaakmal on 2015-09-19 12:25:00 UTC Reply

My heart is gladdened on this day. The peace of Sabah, Sarawak and most of Malaysian Peninsular lays untouched. There are pockets of unrest, but I'll explain if everyone's okay with this place not becoming a flamethrowing river of political banter.

Sabah is my state in Malaysia, and we mostly spend the day as extra day off, relaxing, enjoying the views, and resting at home, since this year some companies stationed in Indonesia decided it's a great plan to burn forest fires. The fires causes haze, that aren't very severe here yet, and affects Indonesia worse. Sorry, Indonesia, I'm not blaming you, in fact, there are someone closer to home that should be responsible.

As for Sarawak and Peninsular Malaysia, they are warming up to the idea of Malaysia Day. But the celebration is still a little slow.

Pardon my mistakes in Hebrew, I have yet the opportunity to master such ancient and wise language.

But in English, do we borrow the plurals as well as the singular? I mean, when I borrow 'goyim' into Malay, I will still say 'goyim', despite knowing it's plural. And in Malay, to plural, we repeat the words. So 'goyim' borrowed to Malay becomes 'goy-goy'. But we don't actually do that. We just to find the words that can fit the meaning. So goyim becomes 'bukan orang Yahudi'(not the Jewsih people).
Sounds about right to me! by Rats on 2015-09-19 03:15:00 UTC Reply

I. . . Honestly have no clue with regards to "l'shana tova" vs "shana tova", I've always just said the former :"D I know approximately zero Hebrew so it's definitely possible I'm using it wrong or something?? Haha. . .!

(I have no clue if that parenthetical is addressed to me or not?? Ahhh *__*;; )

I think... by Desdendelle on 2015-09-19 05:30:00 UTC Reply

"L'shana tova" vs "shana tova" is cultural — we only ever use the latter here in Israel.

Yep! by Rats on 2015-09-15 16:17:00 UTC Reply

Oh man, you got me started and now I will never stop talking.

Yep, Rosh Hashanah! It's a two day holiday, started Sunday night this year and will end tonight. The Jewish calendar itself is lunar based, so every once in a while there's a leap month (literally just called Adar2, lol) to keep the holidays on track with the seasons they're supposed to be in! For example, Passover needs to be in spring, while Rosh Hashanah is in the fall. The date was chosen because of the agricultural cycle.

The holiday itself, while a new year celebration, is also considered part of an atonement time! According to tradition, it's during the course of Rosh Hashanah that the books of judgement are opened in heaven. Names are recorded into books of "wicked" and "good" or something to that regard, and you have the next ten days (until Yom Kippur next Wednesday!) to reflect on your year and try to remedy or feel sorry for any wrongs you committed. You're supposed to fast on the day of Yom Kippur, and there's also this bit I like where you're supposed to make a paper boat and float it down the river to represent your wrongdoings being washed away. I think? I can't find any record of that online but I definitely remember learning about it in Hebrew school. :T

Anyways, with regard to Rosh Hashanah, some traditions include eating round challah bread to represent the circular nature of the year and apples dipped in honey for a sweet new year. Some places have a fish head on the table to symbolize a prayer consisting of "let us be the head (leaders) not the tail (followers)". You're also supposed to go to temple and hear a rabbi blow a shofar, which is a hollowed out horn, because it supposedly resembles a baby's cry and reminds us of our sorrow. Nice stuff haha. . .

So yeah!! Jewish new year. Good times.

Malaysia Day! Is that like an independence day, or something else?

Malaysia is formed on the day. by darklordaakmal on 2015-09-15 17:43:00 UTC Reply

It's a day to celebrate the formation of Malaysia from the states of Federation of Malay States, Sabah(North Borneo), Sarawak, and once upon a time, Singapore. Singapore was removed from the union. It's not very festive, but people flutter their flags around and generally be a bit more cheerful that day.

Since you told us about your country's formation... by James Shields on 2015-09-18 16:18:00 UTC Reply

Allow me to tell about my country's independence. Independence Day here in Brazil is celebrated on September 7th, marking the anniversary of the Cry of Ipiranga, called as such because it happened in the shores of the Ipiranga Brook. This event occured in September 7th of 1822. Basically what happened was that Pedro I, then Prince Royal of the United Kingdom of Portugal, Brazil and the Algarves, declared independence from Portugal. The official (and somewhat mythical) version of this event can be best illustrated by the painting titled Independence or Death(which supposedly is what Pedro I shouted when he made the declaration):

It is important to note that although Independence Day is celebrated on the date of this event, actual official recognition from Portugal only came about in 1825.

The river thingy... by Desdendelle on 2015-09-15 16:24:00 UTC Reply

Is called Tashlikh. You go to a place with flowing water or the sea, turn your pockets inside out and say a special prayer. It symbolises throwing your sins away.
However, this tradition first appeared in 15th century Germany and probably isn't an original Jewish thing.

!! Thank you!! by Rats on 2015-09-15 16:53:00 UTC Reply

I went online to fact check before and couldn't find it. That would explain why! Thanks man :)

I think there's also a tradition to toss in some bread...? by DawnFire on 2015-09-17 16:18:00 UTC Reply

Pieces, that is? That's what I remember from a while ago, anyway, and some conversations I've had with my friends about ducks would seem to confirm it. I get the feeling it's just a tradition, though--if nothing else, the Artscroll machzor doesn't mention it that I saw.

Something cool that I learned this year, though, is that you're not limited to doing Tashlikh on Rosh Hashana itself--you can do it not only until Yom Kippur, but until Hoshana Rabbah--this year, that's October 4th. There's something like a three-week window. And neither I not my parents knew until this year, which explains why we haven't done it in a while. Wild, huh?

A bit more information: according, again, to the Artscroll machzor (special prayerbook for the High Holidays, for anyone who doesn't know and would like to), there are a whole bunch of prayers that you say--close to ten or fifteen, IIRC, though that's a complete estimate. I'm also pretty sure that outside the Orthodox movement there's a shorter version--I don't remember it being *that* long when I was a kid. The Artscroll says the same as Des for Tashlikh's time of origin, though I think it placed it even earlier (or else just have a more vague description of the time period). And while it's entirely likely that it was a practice adopted from a different culture, there are certainly reasons for it--I'd have to look again to see what they are, but I think there were two connections made with water and biblical occurrences. Basically--whatever it was originally, if it was adopted from somewhere else then it's been made quite meaningful.

~DF

The singing! ^^ by SMF on 2015-09-15 12:57:00 UTC Reply

Though it could be because I just like getting to sing in general. XD