Subject: For the record...
Author:
Posted on: 2012-12-03 22:54:00 UTC
While I do agree with some of what PoorCynic said, I'd just like to say that I never said anything about agreeing with the whole 'we need more concrit' thing. I did join the PPC to improve my own writing, but mainly I just like seeing that people enjoyed my stories. That's all.
I think we can all agree that no place is perfect. The thing is, putting up with imperfections can only go for so long, and eventually one either attempts to make a change, or leaves (or sinks into sulky acceptance, but that's another story). Given that we all love the PPC, and we want it to flourish and continue, I ask you: How do you think the PPC can improve, and what changes need to be made? If we suggest things, and discuss those suggestions, then hopefully we can co-ordinate and create changes.
I personally agree with PoorCynic that we need more mods- and also that in a way, the missions are stagnating. With everyone following close to the same archetype, it's hard to find new enjoyment when you've read similar things dozens of times, so perhaps we need to shake up the formula slightly. What do you think?
So, this is less PPC-focused and more we-should-write-goodfic! focused. My idea is this: A bunch of fanfic cowrites. Essentially, each Boarder who wants to partake puts their name on a list, along with their top three or four fandoms (probably not more than that) Then, they're randomly matched up with another Boarder, with no fandoms in common, and then they write a crossover fic between the two canons. Or, you could suggest a fandom to crossover with, so long as you don't know much about it other than it looks cool. It'd be a good way both to introduce people to new canons, and help Boarders have fun with people they don't normally write with.
For example, I'd like to see, say a Nanoha/Sherlock crossover. Maybe Sherlock starts poking at a Lost Logia that's been causing inexplicable (ie magical) murders around town, and Fate, the Enforcer who has to deal with the Logia, has to deal with it and him.
who knows next to nothing about Nanoha but a great deal about Sherlock and crossovers in general, would love to help you write one.
That is pretty much perfect. Can you send me your email, so I can toss you a GDoc?
I am ridiculous amounts of excited for this.
I'm very, very sorry to see PC go, and I hope he knows he'll be missed - very much so. (I'm not good at goodbyes. I tend to put them off until the very last. It's not... a lack of empathy.) But I'm agreeing with Neshomeh that a big attempt to Change Everything is not what we need, and with Data that... well, a big attempt to Change Everything is not what we need.
But the metaphor here that I'm looking for is similar to Phil Plait's (and others') commentary on the Race To The Moon. If our focus is one big push, it's a huge... well, push, that quickly peters out, trails off, and gets forgotten about. As said above/below-thread, this has happened multiple times - usually either in the wake of Drama or Exit, or sometimes Dramatic Exits. But adding mods isn't going to prevent people from leaving - or rather, it may prevent some people from leaving, while pushing others towards leaving. (Personally, I should note this is a sore spot for me; last time I tried to push for mod-reform, someone left as a result of that.) I don't want to see that happen again.
I'd also say that putting up with imperfections goes on forever. We're human - we are imperfect. All of our efforts will be flawed, even those with the greatest intentions. We cannot be a community of humans and provide everyone with exactly what they want/need in a community. It's just not possible. I think what we've achieved here, though, is pretty cool. I'm biased, obviously, and I do think we could (as always) stand to improve. But as Huinesoron and Neshomeh have said, the way to do that is to work towards being a better community ourselves - the PPC CommunityTM is a useful abstraction, but it's made up of humans - of us, to be specific - and I think it helps to remember that.
This is more of a general commentary, AV, not necessarily aimed barrel-first at you. Sorry if it came off harshly.
It did, a little, to be honest. I'm not trying to change everything. I just thought that with many people complaining that the PPC wasn't fun any more, and that it was becoming stagnant, that I should actually do something instead of just thinking that I should do something, and try to make it fun again.
I don't see what the big deal is, really. Not that I'm opposed to people doing things, but why make it this big important "oh we need to do something new to save the community" thing. As Nesh points out, we've done this a dozen times before. Things come of it, sometimes, but they don't last, which is okay, because it doesn't really matter. People are going to leave eventually anyway, and new people will join, people will stay in touch with the friends they've made and old people will come back, even if it's just for a while. It's how communities work. Why not just let stuff like crossovers and RP happen naturally, instead of having this big push for it?
If people want to see things done, instead of going "Hey, we should do something, maybe x?" and having an endless conversation, why not just /do/ it?
You wanna see more RP? Make one, then. Set it up on the other board, advertise it here, and have at it.
Want to see more crossovers? Best way to do that is to partner up with people and write really good crossovers so that other people will get interested.
Want to see more stuff that falls outside of the usual mission format? Write it and they will come!
I guess what I'm trying to say is chill, folks. It'll be alright. We don't need to make it a huge issue every time someone leaves.
Mainly because I wanted to put the premise of trying lots of new stuff out there. While it's true that people would think of new things on their own, bringing as many people as possible into a conversation about it gives more people an opportunity to find ideas and premises that they like, and thus the chance that these new things would actually occur grows bigger.
Also, while it would be a lie to say that PoorCynic's departure had nothing to do with this, it wasn't the sole reason. I've seen lots of people say much the same things, and when you've got lots of people with the same complaint, one really should try to change things. So I tried to change it.
(Also, good to see you again, dude. I missed you.)
Because there are so many ideas here, I'm putting together a list. If anyone see's anything I missed, please add it. If you support an idea that's on there, say so. And if you have an idea that isn't on there, please add it.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1p3nOxd5DW9oWpkzdKxqMxB9dSzBkbFB7w3OML3WjKOM/edit
(Also, if anyone has a better way to organize the list, pleeeaaaassseee use it! It's kind of a mess...)
What can you—the person reading this right now—what can you do to make the PPC a better place?
'Cause I'm here to tell you, we've done this song and dance after somebody leaves many times, and it rarely, if ever, pays off in the long term. The reason is that "we" usually ends up meaning "somebody else," or "I will if everyone else does." There's a period of discussion, like what's going on right now, and suggestions are made, and lots of people go "yeah, that's a great idea!", and maybe one or two even do something different one time. But then everything goes back to normal again, because no one wants to be in charge, and without leadership the incentive for doing things differently quickly fades away on an individual basis.
Now, PC is a guy who led by example about the things he values. He gave concrit; he strove to make his missions unique and fresh and interesting; you never saw him flip out at the latest badfic; etc.
So, how about you? What can YOU do?
Do you want to see more concrit around here? Make a commitment to give more. Do it. Keep doing it.
You want varied mission styles? Maybe you should try writing for a department that isn't Floaters or the DMS. There are scads of them, you know, most virtually untouched. Lots of room to play around with mission styles there—or, should you venture into the rarefied airs of PPC Infrastructure, your stories needn't even be missions at all.
Want more group interaction? RP, perhaps? We've got a second board, a chatroom, and a Dreamwidth comm for that. Go start something! There shouldn't need to be a frelling emergency for agents to get together and hang out. As for co-writes, they don't need to be ridiculously huge, either. Back in Ye Olden Dayes, writers used to team up to PPC, one agent apiece. Try it!
Want more moderation? Why not speak up yourself if you see something wrong?
Whatever you do, don't just nod along in this thread and then wait for someone else to step up. If you really care about making the PPC a better place, then take responsibility for it yourself first.
~Neshomeh, who has been on this merry-go-round before and doesn't want to go again.
Apparently I basically agree with everything in here that I know anything about. ;)
I actually don't, mostly, agree with the Astral Void/PoorCynic view of the PPC - I think that's because I write PPC stories primarily for the sheer enjoyment of writing them, rather than because 'I need good concrit. I need analysis. I need people’s reactions.' To each, her own.
I do, however, agree and wholeheartedly repeat what Neshomeh says: if you think something needs doing, do it. Write the interesting missions (and please, for the love of little green dragons, stop making every agent a Floater!). Don't hang around waiting for someone else to 'fix' whatever you think is wrong with the community (which is what 'We need mods!' comes down to, guys) - go talk to whoever's doing something wrong. If you are nice about it, and remember the Constitution - and don't follow someone around the Board nitpicking their every move, I only just got away from someone who did that at work and it was Not Nice - you shouldn't have any trouble.
Because that intangible, immaterial, ideal PPC Community isn't any of those things. It's you. And it's me. And it's Neshomeh, and it's Penguin Yaoi, and it's everyone in between. A community that runs itself only works if the members of the community do the running.
So go out and do it. I'm going to act on my own suggestions elsewhere on this thread - because I think it'll be fun.
hS
While I do agree with some of what PoorCynic said, I'd just like to say that I never said anything about agreeing with the whole 'we need more concrit' thing. I did join the PPC to improve my own writing, but mainly I just like seeing that people enjoyed my stories. That's all.
That was just the thing that most struck me from your combined posts; fear not, I still disagree with you about everything else, too. :P I don't think the (few) missions I read are particularly stagnant, and I don't think we need any form of mods.
But that was my whole thesis: who cares what I think? Who cares what you think? Who cares what anyone thinks? This is the PPC - if you see something that you think could be done better, do it better. Don't sit around waiting for someone else to do it better for you.
This isn't a specific accusation at you, AV. It's actually, I suppose, an agreement with you: 'putting up with imperfections can only go for so long, and eventually one either attempts to make a change, or leaves'.
What I get from your post is that you want people to get moving and make changes - rather than sinking into sulky acceptance. You took the step of making a thread about the problems you percieve rather than just sitting back and tutting, and I respect that. I just don't want anyone else - not the oldbies, not the newbies, not any single member of our community - to look at this thread and go, "I totally agree with Astral. I'm glad someone's doing something about it. Now I'll stop thinking about it." That's not how the PPC works.
So, you! Any person who is reading this and thinking, "Wow, everyone's making such good points, I'm glad someone's doing something about this."! Go and join in one of the two RPs above - or go give someone concrit - or go write a really interesting story - or, whatever it is you think other people need to do... go and do it.
hS
What he said. :)
I know that, by now, I probably sound now like I'm butt kissing than anything else, but I agree with this statement.
This is coming from a guy who had absolutely no problems, a year ago, with waltzing on to a profile and telling the owner right then and there whether I thought they, their work, and their little white knights were utter sh*t or not, keep in mind.
I'm very interested in the Department of WhatThe. I could definitely work some of my natural style into that department. It seems like an outlet for ludicrous amounts of fun, why don't more people try for it?
Well, there's four reasons.
1/ It's one of the PPC's newest department. I think Temporal Offences post-dates it, but that's about it. So fewer of us have read it.
2/ It's one of the department I created, and people tend not to write in those. That's not just about me - most of the departments that came about after Jay left have only one writer. The exceptions that I can think of are DOGA (and even there, the first non-me writer specifically asked my permission) and the DIA (which was written by Artemis, languished for a long time, then had a resurgence with Crashing Down; a few people have written for it since). Oh, and the Floaters.
I actually (mostly) disagree with this state of affairs. If someone wants to write for WhatThe, or Technical Errors, or Out-Of-Character Hobbits - well, they're departments in the PPC now, so people should be able to. The DOOCH's creator is long gone, and I don't mind people using WhatThe - don't know about Araeph and the DTE, though.
3/ (Are we on 3?) I never wrote very much in WhatThe. They have three missions, pretty much. So there's nothing to stick in people's minds and make them go 'Hey, I wanna do that!'
4/ The reason I haven't written much... it's hard to find genuine WhatThe stories. They aren't the ones which squick you out (that would be Bad Slash or DAVD, depending on how they do it), or the ones with extraordinarily bad grammar (DTE), blatant Sues (DMS), etc etc. They're the ones that are really out there - such as, well, writing all the dialogue in English and Gaelic, making your lust object be Maedhrosified!God, or sending your Sue up against the Black Knight (because, well, it's Monty Python. Just no).
But I read less and less fanfic these days. If you know of some stories that deserve the WhatThe treatment - take 'em down! Mortic and Elanor could use the company.
Actually, if anyone wants to write their agents transferring to WhatThe, I will gladly drag the old team out and cowrite a first mission. I think that department needs a hand-hold (for the agents, not the writers).
hS, good grief it's been ages since I cowrote with anyone
I might have one to start with.
If you'll recall - unless you didn't read that topic, in which case I shall explain - I discovered the Sue Colors Whirple and Pilver in what I simply called, "A Tales of Vesperia fic".
That fic, specifically, was a Vesperia fic that had a plot which screamed "New World Order Rebellion Attempt".
Except, uh, it was an attempt to overthrow the New World Order in favor of the Old World Order, which was a direct threat to the very existence of the planet and had to be discarded for three greater good of existence.
Add a Stu straight out of The World Ends With You, and that's already trouble.
Initially, I was going to use it as a first fic for Specs and Sef, but when I got the no-sir-ee there, I just kept it in my files for "just in case".
So, a possibility presents itself. I just need to go for Permission again, hopefully get a yess'm on it this time, and then I can add a new story to an overlooked and somewhat dusty department.
But that's okay; if you think it's a WhatThe then the PPC trusts (or will trust, when you get Permission) your judgement. :P
The offer to co-write still stands (to you or anyone else who wants to write for WhatThe). Mort and El don't need to know the fandom - in fact, it's more fun if they don't...
hS
What is the "Bad Quizzes Division"?
I don't think anyone's ever written about it...
Okay, more seriously, it was set up to deal with the quizzes on insert currently popular internet quiz site here which were actually just telling stories - sometimes as multiple-choice CYOA, sometimes just as straight stories. The concept is mentioned in the opening of the Wikipedia page on said site.
I don't think anyone ever wrote in it - probably because it would be a royal pain. But that's no reason for no-one ever to...
hS
And probably has applications at Quotev, come to think of it.
Anyway, what I recall is that people used to use quizzes to create a kind of choose-your-own-adventure story. Naturally, it rarely went well. I don't know any details for sure, but I'd guess there were a lot geared toward getting "You" with your hot canon character of choice, and in any case a quiz is a pretty limiting medium. It would take a lot of thought and talent to create something good with it.
That's not much to go on, but I hope it helps.
~Neshomeh
Back when I was a wee Specs, I used to take personality quizzes there.
Back then, a lot of them were well written. Not sure if that's still true anymore, though.
Further comments (and definitive statement on how much of it) when I get back.
hS marking the spot
People - new people - come here (or at least used to) because they enjoy Jay and Acacia's stories and want to write things like them. If we declare that all new missions should be written with the agents hanging upside down like bats - it won't happen, because, y'know, that's not what J&A did.
I do have something useful to say (bear with me!) - a suggestion/offer. Time Will Decide For Us and End of the Beginning: Seventy Plus are my brief forays into a wildly different PPC (it showed up in Ghost's Story as well) of about 60 years in the future. The Departments have changed, the mission formats have changed, everything has changed - but it's still the PPC.
So. If people want to start writing missions in that time-period - or, indeed, the period of the Department of Efficiency, or any of the periods involved in Origins-Lofty Skies-Reorg-Crashing Down (these), I'm willing to a) officially open them up, and b) write up a summary of what I have sketched out (as a basis for people to work from).
I'm not suggesting this would, should or could replace current missions - but it could be a way to vary the writing and reading experience. Tired of writing Assassins? Write yourself a Demas Paladin. Fed up of DoSAT? Go visit the Technomancers on their flying city! Etc etc.
Were this to happen, I would suggest starting with an RP-type emergency: something involving timeslips (presumably from the Seventy Plus era to the present), because toying with the fabric of reality is endlessly entertaining.
Oh, and there's still a message going round the system. I'm sure at least a couple of agents are robust enough to do something with it without breaking down in tears and killing themselves.
hS, suggesting ideas
I had ideas about my agents in the future - Riaa and Narav are both incredibly long-lived, but maybe Ari is in the Library, now the admin program of the Tome of Morning Sky, providing security and random advice until a Nanoha-verse mage with the right skills can come and use the Tome.
Would it work if I set up a sort of underground railroad for getting some people out of Author Corrections, or people who want out of the PPC but can't because of the DoE?
It sounds like the sort of thing that would get set up, doesn't it? And fun to write & read about, too.
hS
And would definitely have a go at doing so should you decide to open them up. Having a summary of how things stand would also be very useful obviously!
Of course we're still going to have to keep the Original Series mission format; that is the tried and true one, after all.
I view the J&A-style mission as the standard mission, obviously, but if we took a look into the various genres of literature and fanfiction out there we can ascertain that not all of them play by the same plot (unless you're in the circle of lemmings). By that same token, writers for the PPC should at least have the flexibility to be able to branch into different genres and to try out new mission formats. It doesn't have to be ironclad standard - it just should be an option.
Also, wouldn't that lead into your 60 years later sort of PPC? There's no way we can jump from now to then without a transition period where people start changing mission formats, after all. I'd love to test out the new timeline eras myself.
Weren't we a couple threads back discussing the various PPC AUs - the steampunk one, the pirates one, the magical girl one - as well as scenarios where Agents are paired with minor canon characters? I'd like to see some of those written out. And perhaps we could toy with the Intern programme which seems to have a grand total of one member - that'd be a good avenue for those still without Permission who want to spork things in a co-write.
I also remember that another reason for the ban on Emergencies is that they were happening too often, and someone pointed out that when the PPC HQ is invaded by hordes of Sues on a regular basis, the Emergencies stop being actual emergencies and become something more commonplace.
What might be fun is more HQ-wide RP sessions. I'm not saying churn out one once a week or anything, just every now and then it'd be nice if we could all pool together our agents and have them, I don't know, deal with a rabbit stampede or a sudden HQ-wide ponification or something. In fact, they don't even need to be RPs. The mass Halloween scary story co-write last year? That was fun! As was Huinesoron's fourth-wall-breaking co-write (has that been concluded yet? I may have missed some of it.)
PC mentioned cliques, and people not being able to relate to other people within a group as large as the PPC. This will not do. It'd be nice to have more chances to interact with fellow Boarders, and a nice and productive way that everyone, no matter what fandom, can participate is discussions and group projects that are PPC-related in general.
About cliques.
They're really not an issue.
You're going to get cliques in any group of more than twenty people, let alone in a group the size of the PPC. People are always going to gravitate more towards people they're more comfortable with. It's an inevitable part of interaction in groups. It's not worth getting worked up about, since no matter what happens, most people are going to want to hang out/work with their friends, and pretty much the only way around that is to force them to, y'know, not do that. Which is a tad much.
Maybe we could do another Fandom Buffet? Because it seems to me that people who know a bunch of stuff about video games gravitate towards each other, and people who know a lot about anime gravitate towards one another as well. So, if the two groups interacted, new friends could be made!
Gravitation aside, a story's a story - and I think in the IRC and 'Board alike, there's a constant mingling of fandoms. Personally, I think the groups form differently based more on personalities, styles, and more specific common interests than broad things like genre and medium differences.
But hey, that doesn't mean we shouldn't! Trying new things is always good!
Did somebody say RP? I'm up for it! It would be interesting to see the interplay between my agents and other people's, and general interdepartmental mixing and mayhem!
I heartily second the idea of HQ-wide RPs!
'That' resulted in pretty much everyone who replied denouncing me as thoroughly evil and unable to grasp the meaning of the PPC - and out to ruin their personal enjoyment thereof at the same time - so the co-write section was thrown out. I substituted a just-written-by-me part.
Swan's Egg
hS
You know, I would be up for it.
I don't remember calling you evil, though. I did think arbitrarily killing things off was a really bad idea—which, I should add, is exceedingly rare from you—and a terrible precedent to set.
I never really understood the message, either. I might revisit the thing I started with it sometime, though. As I recall, Alex the FicPsych intern saw it and had a revelatory experience, and then had to be talked down by the rest of the thoroughly bemused staff. I don't think it was very funny, but maybe it could be. More FicPsych stories would be good to do, anyway.
~Neshomeh
I am sorry, hS, if it came off as me calling you thoroughly evil (Mad scientist, maybe. Everyone needs a hobby, right?) or that you didn't have a grasp on the spirit of the community. I just really didn't like the story and tried to articulate the reasons why that was the case. It was not my intent to cast aspersions upon you.
-Phobos
As I'm sure you know, it's a bit miserable to put more effort into writing something than you have for a long time (I had betas, for heaven's sake! I never have betas!) and have literally no-one respond positively at any stage of the proceedings. So I got a bit sulky about the whole thing. C'est ca.
(Don't go casting nasturtiums - you don't know where they've been!)
hS
Well that's a shame, I had a lot of fun with that. I'd been waiting to use that Saints Row joke, too...
And I have a suggestion: The Great Penguin Incursion of 2012, wherein large numbers of penguins arrived in HQ from nowhere. Half of them spontaneously broke into song-and-dance numbers, and the other half began organising a hostile takeover through a coded series of gestures and honks.
Your thoughts?
I also completely agree on more RPs. I find that non-scripted interactions between agents controlled by other Boarders opens up so much more potential for comedy, character development, cross-mission references and mass hysteria than just writing missions.
How about we organise another Holiday RP, since the holidays are coming up?
One of my favorite parts of the PPC is seeing the different agents meet and interact with one another.
I remember there was an Anime RP that sort of just, fizzled out. I would love it for a Pony RP to happen. Hmmm... Could anyone start it?
Roleplaying is fun, and would give everyone's characters the change to meet people they might not otherwise. You can never have too many friends, yes? :D
we referred to an All-HQ Extra Vicious Pillow Fight.
Can that happen?
...but the real question is, how did it start?
but I could be wrong.
I agree, the groups of people who know blah blah fandom are a bit... Off-putting. For people like me, who are - to quote TV Tropes - Jacks of All Trades when it comes to vacations, good but not great at many things, it's a bit like you're the third wheel that doesn't fit in anywhere.
I've been there. I AM there in real life, even.
What I've also noticed is that certain members seem to respond more openly to some boarders than others. I try to make myself an open person to all members here, but I have this issue as well, where I'll get to talking with somebody, and then somebody will interject their opinion, and I'll just completely blow them off. I think there should be a greater effort to be welcoming and friendly all the time, and not just when introducing yourself to newbies.
Friendships are fine, but one of the rules of this site, if not stated then implied, is that all opinions are welcomed, and all conversion should be taken with a smile rather than a smirk. Is like to try and reinforce this a bit more.
Firstly, we need more things to link each spinoff to another. Co-writes, RPs, references to another PPCer's work, agent cameos, you name it, we need more of them. Right now I feel that each department is self-contained and agents don't see much of their coworkers from other branches. I realize that this is hard to pull off in a mission where the badfic is centre stage but I think acknowledging other PPCers' work makes the entire universe that much more alive.
Secondly, write more concrit. I wholeheartedly agree with PC when he says that there isn't enough constructive criticism going around: just saying "I liked it!" doesn't help an author improve. What did you like in the mission? Why? What was your favourite part? Why? Were there any passages that felt forced, slow, or awkward? Point them out and explain.
I suggest that for every mission that we read, we should write a review.
Thirdly, let's talk Emergencies. On the up side, they have certainly changed the formula of day-to-day life for agents by placing them into extraordinary situations where nobody-- perhaps not even their author-- knows how it will end. They have always spurred change in the PPC-verse and kept things fresh by involving agents from every single service branch. The down side is just that: some changes are not wanted. Makes-Things' "death" is the prime example of this situation.
I have been reviewing the discussion following Huinesoron's release of his Swan's Egg stories and it is clear that the death of important characters-- especially those that are free-to-use-- is something to be avoided at all costs when writing about a crisis. The moratorium on Emergencies was established to prevent such a thing from happening again.
But what if we set up safeguards? Rules to prevent something that would cripple or radically change the structure and workings of the PPC? In theory, we could write Emergencies responsibly by establishing what we can and cannot do with the PPC. Naturally, we will have to establish a rule on the frequency of such events (like maybe a general vote on whether we could write about one).
If a consensus could be reached, I think this could inject some life into the community.
...but that's just my opinion. Thoughts?
Seconded the concrit bit. It is my chief complaint in all creative expression settings.
And to the emergency thing: while the Permission system is something I totally agree with, maybe the emergency could be like an alternative? Rookie potential agent walks into PPC for a conference or Aldrich, and suddenly finds themselves wrapped up in a crisis that could determine whether they actually take the job, or end up waiting until peace is had to try again, or something like that?
Obviously, there would be TONS of details to work out, and restrictions and all that, but maybe it could work as a sort of change from the current system from those who want to change things up a bit?
(I'm not part of this group - I'm actually working on a second attempt using the current system - but it's a potential idea that might end up flying or flopping that I think could be considered.)
I sometimes get tired just referencing other stuff I've done because I'm not sure whether or not other people would like me referencing their things.
It would be fantastic if we could, when plugging missions, point out some highlights/changes to continuity when doing so, so that other people who want to make sly references in their own missions ("Say, remember that big hubaloo in the DOI last week over that rookie's disappearance?" "Serves him right; I heard he drowned the Sorting Room on his first day on the job.") can easily find the sources.
I need to be better about posting feedback (/hangs head). And yes, Emergencies indeed. Could we first define exactly how much of the PPC needs to be involved in situation to call it an Emergency? Like, would a battle at an OFU that requires PPC reinforcements count, or is it specifically HQ-centred?
...HQ-wide events that require drastic measures from all branches of the Organization to protect its personnel and to repel the (usually external) threat. An OFU requiring reinforcements would be a major happening, but not directly a threat to Headquarters.
I think I may be over-simplifying things here...
and essentially waging some Suvian version of World War Two (to go with the Suvian version of World War One in the first year of IAHF) wouldn't end up as an Emergency per se for the PPC?
...and saying that it would certainly be an Emergency for the OFU, but not for the PPC.
The PPC and the various OFUs have a history of working together, that much I know. They're not mutually exclusive, but in my mind they're not related to the point where if one collapses, the other automatically crumbles. In the case you mentioned, it would probably come out in HQ as "scramble some agents ready to fight; there's an ally in trouble!"
...is there a link to that WW1 IAHF incident you speak of?
Beginning with an arms race in the first semester, continuing with an almost-assassination of the Course Coordinator(s), escalating with a joke about the Schlieffen plan (the antagonistic Mary Sue Factory that invaded was anticipating a war on two fronts between IAHF and the rest of the League, since there was a civil war brewing amongst the League, etc etc), and ending with timely reinforcements from the PPC .
I've more or less considered the PPC like the America of the Canon Protection Initiative, but I will try my best to avoid a Pearl Harbour this time around.
You could read the actual fighty bits here.
Not sure if I just haven't been on the right sites or anything, but it seems like there's not a whole lot of roleplaying that goes on. Not only that, but it doesn't really feel like the sites with more roleplaying activity aren't really linked in a way that makes it easy for the newer members to find them and participate. Sure, there's Boarder roleplaying in the IRC, but I'd love to see some active roleplaying where we all played as our agents.
I rather realised it with the latest one I wrote where my Agents seemed rather bored doing it. Perhaps we chose a fic that, despite its novelty in having the Sue go after a different target in their specialised canon, was a bit too boring otherwise.
I intend on using it as an excuse for Upstairs to fling them into the Circle of Lemmings head-on, but still, I can agree that it may be time to change something with the missions (I, being one of the only people writing missions in BBC Sherlock, would love to write a mission where Eledhwen and Christianne have to solve the mission like a murder mystery).
I'll toy with the murder mystery mission format, and see if that could shake things up a bit.
I feel like, while the comedy should always be a mainstay, I could definitely go for more adventure-y aspects.
If I may use an example, Desdendelle uploaded a group write only just recently that read like an adventure story, in that the characters were actively involved in the action while also keeping to the standard of staying on the sidelines, and instead of the usual "Sure dies instantly because Agents run on logic", there was a big final battle of sorts that actually put the Agents to a considerable test.
If we can put in mystery elements, I'd like to vouch for more genres that could coexist with what is currently in play.
Adding a few more genres are fun. Also, I have to say, adding in a few genres you're not normally writing in is fun! I wrote the Nova execution scene (well, since it had Ari in it, I guess that's obvious) and I think it was my first time writing action-y stuff outside of normal, short executions. And it was lots of fun! So yeah, experiment with genres you don't normally read or write in!
(Also, I kinda wrote that Nova scene the first time I finished scanning the fic, on my phone, on a bumpy bus ride, when the cowrite hadn't even really started, running off of pure fanrage.)
I tested it out for the Badfic Game with the PPC Sherlock AU - in a murder mystery format, I suspect that the Words would have to be inaccessible because then the Sue would be easily found - but what I had in mind was:
The console beeps; the Intel Report only gives a dossier on the victim (whether that's the canon as a whole or a canon character in particular) and a list of suspects; the Agents go into the fic and observe the canons, interview suspects (all the OCs/bit characters), find evidence of canon-tampering (whether that's from a haywire CAD, a spatial-temporal distortion, or the complete frick-up of the surroundings/whatnot). The Agents eliminate the impossible, come up with the suspect that is the Sue, and trap the Sue somehow (catching them red-handed, direct confrontation to wrangle a confession, whatever). They then charge and assassinate the Sue.
Are there potential plot problems with that? I'm going to try it out on my next mission, so if there's a glaring problem now I'd like to get it fixed before I accidentally make a huge plothole in-mission.
I could totally read that.
Alternatively, as well as also:
Assassin suspense story style, where the assassin gets a call from an anonymous contact, calling for their services, meet with said contact - details need to be worked out here, but hear me out - and are given a brief breakdown of the target, the reasons for assassination, and potential payment for services rendered.
Then, the assassin moves quietly in disguise - not necessarily computer-generated, but realistic in nature to the continuum in question - through the crowds, to places of interest for investigation, makes contact with people of interest, scouts out the target and potential collateral, plans out a strategy of assault, and then executes it, with obviously varying levels of success and failure.
After that, they dispose of the evidence (naturally), and make an attempted escape, quiet or otherwise, and report back to their contact with the news.
We could even put elements of the show Person Of Interest in there and make it a small team of spies, intelligence agents, code crackers, mercenaries and camera hackers and the like, and maybe even wraps development people and loadout agents for the assassins to gain their advantage from.
The possibilities, man!
is if the genre of the mission was more or less the genre of the source canon.
So murder mystery would work best for Sherlock Holmes and co, assassins for some other canon (although I could also see it working in BBC Sherlock, because you won't believe how many hitman!John AUs there are), epic action-adventure for another canon, and so on
(I would love to see how someone could write a romantic-comedy style mission for a corresponding canon. It sounds both terrifying and hilarious.)
Hm. I mostly work in Magical Girl stories - I wonder how that would translate to a full mission? I had the beginning and executions in that short AU thing, and I had been thinking about a full mission.
Maybe the Sue spawns off Monsters of the Week to interfere with Agents?
If it is a trollfic, the (MG?) Agents have to expose the troll, and then fight it monster-of-the-week style.
... I was already tempted to have a Star Trek mission where my agents have to take the Sue/Stu on in a ship-to-ship battle. Also, they do have a ship (from my latest mission), which Sigma is currently - upgrading - with the help from various generic DoSAT technicians.
It has occurred to me that some of these Sues are quite powerful, and would potentially put up more of a fight than necessarily given credit for. That, and it would be more exciting. That's also why my agents got chased by the Canons after defeating the Stu in their last mission - in fact, I found that as much fun as mocking the bad spellings.
I also plan to have some interludes soon, which should break the formula and expand on happenings in HQ.
See, in my plannings for my eventual sporking of the other Jack Russel fic, I came up with something like that. There's a ship full of bit characters that Jack Russel created that could probably be swayed to turn against him.
That is, if I ever get around to applying for Permission...
Thompson's ship, I presume? Well, if you needed any help, I bet the 'Stu's face would be a picture if he saw the future version of his own ship (especially after Sigma's 'redecoration'). I'm sure Sigma would let you borrow it, if your agents asked. You might want avoid mentioning the name Captain Jack Russel, though, unless you wanted a certain trio tagging along.
Oh, and at least you already have a good permission piece, namely OFAS. That's the hardest part. You also already know what you want to spork. I can see you getting permission fairly easily, after the month's up (it might be already). The real question is whether you think you'll have the time for writing both missions and OFAS. If so, then go for it!
Romance-comedy?
Oh, I smell Japanese anime in the works, I do. XD
Gah, my head is so full of ideas, now! I need to try some of these!
...says the Agent as she runs through the portal with her weapon of choice in her teeth.
Which then, according to the Narrative Laws of Comedy, dropped out of her mouth and landed on her feet, causing her to yelp in pain right within earshot of her Lust Object sempai.
Says the sempai while pinching his nose/wearily eyeing the agent as she makes an unnecessarily huge scene in the hallway, while fellow agents gawk.
I agree about the missions; that there's even a 'starter formula' listed on the Wiki's Guide to Writing Missions page has always kind of bothered me. But I also think the formula issue is a double-edged sword: on one hand, formulas tend to stagnate after a few minutes, but on the other hand, formulas can serve to give newer PPCers a sort of cheat sheet until they find their own flow.
I'm thinking that more group missions might help break up the monotony a bit - I admit, I prefer writing solo missions (and feel relatively safe in assuming others do as well), but if we're meant to be a community of writers, and not just a group of hilariously insane badfic killers, it strikes me as odd that there aren't more group missions. I'm not saying we need another emergency (we don't), but it seems to me that it wouldn't hurt to have a few group mission challenges - or something similar - scattered at odd intervals throughout the year.
I also think that changing the way missions are written should first and foremost be the choice of each individual writer, and not an enforced community edict. To me, telling someone, "You have to write it following this sequence of events" is a bit like saying, "You can be creative, but you have to use the same basic framework as everyone else."
Yes, I realize the formula is more of a suggestion than an outright order, and I'm not trying to accuse anyone of 'stifling our creativity' or 'make us all their little writing slaves'; nor am I trying to stir up or create any conspiracy theories among the Board. I just really think that we need more than one formula and that, formulas or no, we should respect each writer's decision to follow the same tried and true formula or to try something new, as it suits them.
As for the mods, I honestly think we have plenty. There always seems to be at least one around at any given point in time, and appear to be doing a good job as is. Besides that, I worry that having more mods will cause done of us - without naming names - to think the Board is becoming more repressive, and that a rift may begin to appear among us as a result.
My disagreement is minuscule though. I do believe that the 'tried and true' method can be used, by oldbie or newbie, as long as you add some sort of unique spice to it. This is most likely the characters, but it can also be the way the 'Sue is portrayed to act and react, or how the assassination is carried out. You don't need to go completely outside the norm for variety.
I do agree greatly with the group missions though, despite my lack of experience in the field in general. The only PPC thing that I've written that has been approved and published as the Rouge Angles of Satin MST, but I have to say it was a ton of fun, bouncing people's comments and ideas off each other, as well being able to show interaction that normally wouldn't happen. That also goes along with the idea that missions are somewhat self-contained. You really don't see people referencing each other's works, making the PPC appear less like a community and more like a bunch of secluded individuals with the same bosses. I feel like group missions would help relieve that somewhat, but also just mentioning other agents or events. All you have to do is nudge a person and say "Hey, do you mind if I mention X or Y in my story?" If they say no for whatever reason, leave their things alone. If they say yes, you're free to go. That way it looks like everybody actually knows each other and has shared horror stories with each other, like a community.
In other words, work together more and we'll look more like a community.
I will admit badfics were so much more fun to spork when I was writing co-ops with IntelligentAirhead and EileenAlphabet, and I am looking forward to the group mission for the Goddess Sue.
I also agree that formulas may make some of us feel that the missions are becoming more formulaic, and I support breaking free of that (I personally intend on coming up with a murder-mystery mission format).
...but on REALLY bad badfics - like C*l*br**n or 'Replacement Dash destroys my faith in the inherent innocence of humanity' - writing in a group makes it easier to maintain one's sanity. And when you're writing in a group, it's more likely the mistakes in your writing will be caught and alternatives to wonky wording will be offered, which, in my mind, can serve to improve one's writing. It certainly helps with mine!
Although, personally, I love the current formula. Call me old-fashioned, but it's a lot of fun.
I'm just saying that it shouldn't constrain anyone who wants to break free from it and go off on one of the other tangents we're bandying about up there (/points to own thread).
If I may add to the group mission idea: was it not a GROUP idea that this fandom was built from?
Jay and Acacia Co-wrote they're missions, if you'll recall.
I think we should try and go back to our roots, as well.
A sort of rebirth of the double-writer agent teams? I like.
Yeah, exactly!
It's like we're related or something!
All of my missions, published and in process of being written/beta'd (aside from my first) are co-writes. I think I like writing with others more than I like writing alone, because it lets me bounce my Agents off other people's. I myself think co-writes are a good idea, especially because writing with someone lets you know that someone better.
Right.
And like I said, it's a call back to the PPC's roots.
If I'm not mistaken, the board's goal is to try and honor the spirit of the original series' charm, as well as add new aspects like the earliest spin-off stories did, abs this seeks to me like a good step back in that direction, as well as a growing experience.
So: Why not?
(Of course, at least to start, I'm probably still going to go solo until I get comfortable with the system.)
Though, since multiple agents get hard to juggle quick, it's probably a good idea to have two or three agents between the two writers.
But yeah, I definitely agree with you. Co-writing in my opinion helps keep us on our toes; you don't know what snappy line the other person's going to make, after all.
...Because my solo MST is full of Lackluster Nazi jokes. You might prompt me to make one if you're not careful.
I might suggest, at least to start, that while the GDoc system that's been adopted is very applicable, it is difficult to get used to if you are coming in to it with no knowledge of the system.
For me, I recently got done with a big email-based beta of a badfic. It was one huge brainstorming period between at least ten boarders, including myself, and we all bounced ideas off of each other that were built on, debated, discarded, applied, or tossed around. With each new factoid about the fic, dozens of new ideas sprung up for us to toy with. It was all kinds of fun.
I'm not saying "Ragh Ditch GDoc", because I got burnt while trying to handle it on my phone. That's unfair of me to do. But, I would like to suggest that maybe more of these email brainstorms could be applied to fics before big group-writes on GDocs. I'm just thinking it might do wonders towards improving the already good quality of stories, and it would give boarders a good idea of how other boarders think, and thus give a good impression as to the styles of their cohorts for any future group writes where those particular people might want to join in.
It would also help to encourage friendly discussion and debate between intelligent minds, as well as make friendships where there might have been assumed shyness, especially for newbies. In fact, for newbies, it would be a good experience with improving their styles, and getting a wide mass opinion as to how many ways you can write a good story and keep the audience interested.
Hey, it's just a thought, but it's one I've been considering for a while.
Before our co-writes, Intel and I would actually liveblog the fic we were sporking on Tumblr (you can still find them under the "lily vs suefics" tag on my Tumblr), corroborate our biggest complaints and snarkiest comments in private messaging, and open a GDoc to write the mission itself.
GDocs is really annoying in mobile format, yeah. I can see where you're coming from there.
Mobile GDoc + Samsung Illusion phone = no. Better for iPhones and Tablets, in my opinion.
I think that when the time I do a solo comes, I'm going to call for a big email brainstorm for how I could go about it. Because that was FUN.
Perhaps it is due to a difference in writing style, but I like the GDocs method (I'm also writing on a 15'6'' laptop, so I don't have size problems). For co-writes, I usually use GDocs' chat for brainstorming and the like, though, truth to be told, I usually don't know what I'll write till I write it.
Most of what I write is typically me winging it with the details I haven't quite sanded down, as well as tying it into what I do gave down to a science, and hoping nobody notices.
Which is another reason I support group brainstorms, because then I don't have to pretend that I have things nailed down, and can ask for opinions openly without fear of reprisal, if any.