Subject: Aha!
Author:
Posted on: 2016-07-25 13:49:00 UTC
I can confirm that the archy door is the entrance to the Woolworth Building, and therefor to MACUSA. (The archy one, not the columny one.) You can also see it in Newt's skyline shot.
Thanks for the names; I don't know that I'll remember them, but I'll try. ^_^ Shaw's rally seems to be the location of the Thunderbird incident, which might mean a connection with the witchhunters (one way or another).
hS
Thank you, SDCC, for bringing us something new! The trailer is fresh outta oven so let's dissect it!
But we need to watch it first... HERE
Let the analysis BEGIN!
[0:02] We open up with an investigator (from the way they talk I assume he's a Muggle No-Maj?) talking about something that escaped. Something that was "like a ghost". We also see Percival Graves, the faithful hound of Supreme Leader Picquery, on the scene.
Since, most likely, the most dangerous of Newt's creatures "dove underground" and now it tearing through New York like it's nothing, this is probably not a Sasquatch, as I've previously assumed (although it is still confirmed to appear in the first film; played by Jason Newell).
[0:31] We heard President Pickles talking about "strange things" happening around New York, and we see future Mrs. Scamander, probably when she was still an Auror for the MACUSA.
[0:36] A House Elf...spinning cotton... Umm... Can I...not comment on that?
[0:38] We see the MACUSA Court at what I assume to be a full assembly. Maybe Newt's trial will commence shortly?
[0:41] This is Tina...knocking at a painting? This may be just stereotypes, but the red hair and green eyes (?) make me instantly think of Ireland, so I assume that's Isolt Sayre, founder of Ilvermorny? The school supposedly plays part in the film.
[0:43] Wizard mobster playing poker in an illegal brewery? Previous trailer showed us a fight scene there.
]0:54] The first creature escapes the case and attacks Jacob Kowalski. I have absolutely no idea what this is. After slowing the video down, it resembles some kinda pig (even screeches like one), but smaller with thick shaggy coat of fur? My best guess would be a Nogtail?
[01:06] Hunt continues to a forest, with something lurking below.
[01:10] A Billywig chillin' in the middle of New York.
[01:13] Now what is THIS?! It has a serpentine body, and a beak. It's not a basilisk, that's for sure, and it doesn't look like a dragon... but this may be a cockatrice - like the one from the 1792 Triwizard Tournament. But I don't know if this is also not our "main" creature that spreads chaos.
[01:18] We have what I assume is a female House Elf, dressed like a show girl, in a speakeasy. Also, the smoke clouds look like Billywigs.
[01:20] And this is Gnarlack, the owner of aforementioned fine establishment.
[01:30] Huh... Looks like President Pickles actually cares for her Wizarding community...either that, or she wants to keep peace at any cost. Also, to any of my American friends, what does this looks like to you? Does she want to contain the magical beasts? Or contain the No-Majes from interfering?
[01:43] THAT is an albino...griffin? Doesn't look like a hippogriff to me.
[01:45] A Swooping Evil returns to its...cocoon? after being unleashed in the previous trailer.
[01:35] That is definitely a demiguise running through something that looks like a Christmas display?
At [01:56] we see something either exploding, or Apparating/Disapparating... I assume this to be the most dangerous creature, but more on that below.
We see the lights going off and...
And the climax of the trailer. At [02:07] we see the same swirling mess of smoke and destruction, tearing through New York like hot knife through butter. As mentioned at the beginning, it does look like a ghost. THIS is what I assume to be the most dangerous of Newt's creatures. But what is it...? Well, there's one more creature confirmed to appear in the first film:
The Lethifold - a "cousin" of the Dementors. I may be completely wrong, and the thing that destroys New York may be something completely different, but as Lethifold was confirmed to appear, with its rank of XXXXX, it's the most lethal creature in the entire film.
Now it's time for you, folks. Questions, comments, theories? LET THE DEBATE BEGIN! (hS, I'm counting on your sharp mind!)
So I've just read, for the very first time, Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows.
[Pause for screaming]
Actually, I've just read for the very first time everything from Goblet of Fire onwards, but that's-
[More screaming]
-BUT THAT'S not relevant. It's DH that I have a question about.
Is there any consensus as to who or what the 'wretched creature' hanging out in Ghostly King's Cross was? Dumbledore refuses to say (except that it's pointless to waste pity on or try to help). I wondered if it was Voldemort, but a) he's still alive (though maybe unconscious), and b) Dumbledore is clear that the Horcrux-fragments are 'destroyed', not just dead.
So then I wondered if it could be Grindelwald? They do talk about him a fair bit, he has only recently died, and he and Dumbledore have A History, so it would explain why Albus was hanging out with him.
Or is it someone or something else? I can't really think of anything that would fit (the spirit of the first owner of the Elder Wand?), but...
hS
PS: Oh, but this version of Deathly Hallows has the best ending. The much-debated epilogue ends at the bottom of the front side of the very last page. I turn it over, and see, printed large on the inside back cover itself, JKR standing by her desk with a smirk on her face that seems to say, "Yep, I just did that. Nope, you can't argue it away. Yep, it's canon now."
I tried to find a copy of the picture online, but honestly, she always smirks like that. Look at all the pictures!
hS (again)
*more screaming*
About time! :D
*cough*
Word of Rowling says that the thing is what's left of Voldemort's soul that had latched onto Harry.
The longer version.
Do you disagree with the source you quote or does "that had latched onto Harry" not mean what I think it means?
Connected through the blood that Voldemort used in his revival in GF, Harry and Voldemort share a near-death experience in a place that Harry visualizes as King’s Cross station. What Harry sees there is the last piece of Voldemort’s soul that still resided in Voldemort’s body; Harrycrux is already destroyed like all the other Horcruxes except Naginicrux.
Voldemort faces a fate truely worse than death there. His maimed soul, being totally immobile left to its own devices, could neither move on (how would it board the train?) nor turn its back to the next great adventure and return as a ghost. That’s what Harry refers to when he, during the final battle, asks Voldemort to repent and mend his soul.
HG
I knew you'd be round soon.
So it's... let's see, one of the two pieces of Voldemort's soul that still exists - the bit that's in his own body ("When Voldemort attacks Harry, they both fall temporarily unconscious, and both their souls – Harry’s undamaged and healthy, Voldemort’s stunted and maimed – appear in the limbo" - ie, it's Voldemort-proper, not the bit stuck in Harry). The one inside Harry is kablooied by that point, but there's still a chunk stuck in Nagini.
But... if that's the case, why didn't Voldemort realise Harry wasn't dead? If they were both in limbo, where Harry could hear Voldemort's whimpering, why didn't Voldemort hear Harry's chat with Dumbledore? Is it because, with Nagini still alive, he couldn't actually die, and so wasn't properly 'in' limbo?
And... why does Dumbledore say Harry can't help it and shouldn't pity it, when offering redemption to Tom Riddle is part of Harry's end-game plan? Setting Harry up to not be disappointed by failure, or what?
QUESTIONS!
hS
Why didn't Voldemort realise Harry wasn't dead?
Maybe this baby-like creature is even more helpless than a newborn, unable to see, hear and comprehend what’s going on? Voldemort may not even remember the experience.
Concerning Dumbledore, I guess he is not really there. It’s all in Harry’s head (but based on reality), and Harry tries to do what he is used to do near the end of every book except HBP. But since Dumbledore is only imagined, he can’t actually tell Harry anything Harry can’t figure out on his own. Harry may still get things wrong and change his mind later.
And... um, well, to answer those other perfectly valid questions, I, um, ah...
Oh, hey, look, a Snitch! *runs after it*
Had while perusing the newspaper image:
Dragot = dragon-ingot? We know JKR likes portmanteaux (or blend words? I forget how that discussion ended), and it sounds like something wizards would come up with to me.
~Neshomeh, because fictional etymology is fun.
In the other trailer, there's a big shot of someone reading a newspaper. You can find it here.
The big, eye-catching WANTED poster tells of a 3500 dragot reward for the arrest of one Alberto Macellarius (aka 'The Rat'), for the crimes of 'counterfeiting wands and murder'. The text underneath seems to read:
reward ??? [number] dragots will be paid for information
leading to the arrest and conviction of this wizard. MACUSA officers
??? ??? ???? and will take care of the prosecution.
Bearing Wand and
Extremely Dangerous!
So here's what I can tell you about MACUSA from that:
-They consider wand counterfeiting to be a higher crime than murder.
-They're happy to ask the general populace to try and capture someone accused of murder.
-They're also happy to try and trick people out of their money - the reward only goes through if he's convicted. If he happens to splinch himself while Apparating down the stairs, well, tough luck.
MACUSA: looking out for YOU. As in, 'we see you when you're sleeping...'
hS
Isn't it normally assumed that the government will prosecute criminals? Do any would-be bounty hunters need to usually keep a lawyer on staff to take care of lesser criminals? Or am I misunderstanding something?
Every time I think about it, I come out with another way it's just a very odd thing to say.
1/ As you say, that's what the justice system is for. So why say it? It feels like a restaurant running a sign that says 'This week, all our meals are non-toxic'. Yes, and next week...?
2/ On the flip side... isn't prosecution normally the job of some kind of lawyer? This sounds like the police (Aurors?) are going to be heading straight into that job - which, given that they're biased already ('have conclusive evidence') sounds like a gross miscarriage of justice.
3/ 'Take care of'. I feel like normally this kind of sentence would use prosecute as a verb (as in, trespassers will be); here it's showing up in a phrase that sounds very much like 'we'll take care of any witnesses'. It's just... creepy-sounding.
Maybe it's just because I absolutely do not trust MACUSA, but I think this poster is really sketchy.
hS
On point 2, I don't know how it works specifically, but I'm pretty sure prosecutors work for the government as part of the justice system, right? That's how you get things like State of Whatever vs. This Guy Who Killed Some Folks. The victims don't pay the lawyers, not in criminal court.
That said, wizards are weird. I don't think real life criminal prosecutor lawyers work as a part of a police department, but it could be that Auror stations have a few lawyers on-staff and they handle the cases that the Aurors bring in, which would cause bias.
Do you think MACUSA has laws about the whole 'if you can't afford a lawyer, one will be provided for you' thing?
It's definitely quackery, but putting the worst offense last makes sense to me: you save the last position in a list for the item that will make the biggest impact, the thing you most want your readers to remember.
I don't see that they asked the populace to try to capture him, either. They're just asking for information that will help MACUSA officers do it.
That said, the fact that they're only interested in information leading to Alberto's arrest and conviction is what puts my back up. The wording makes it pretty clear they don't want to hear anything that would suggest he's actually a really nice guy who spends most of his time nursing orphaned kneazle kittens and knitting doilies. They've already made up their minds that he is guilty, and he isn't getting any sort of fair trial if they catch him. Ick.
~Neshomeh
I'd assume you'd put it first, because people won't read the whole thing. 'Oh, there's another goat-charmer on the loose, bo-ring'. But on the other hand, I have made fun of lists of symptoms that start from death and work down to sore throat, so maybe I'm just inconsistent. ^_^
But I do think they're asking for him to be arrested by the reader. I'm not sure, but it really looks as though the 'reward ??? [number] dragots... for information' line has a smaller number than 3500. It could be '2,300', with some sort of dragot symbol in front of it? That would clearly imply they'll pay you less if you just tell them where he is.
On looking closer, I think the final sentence reads 'MACUSA officers have conclusive evidence and will take care of the prosecution', but it could be 'are/now collecting evidence'. Which... well, the latter reading totally supports your view that they're just out to get him; the former is quite obviously code for 'we can prove he did the wand-counterfeits, so we'll hang the murder on him too - who's going to argue?'.
"Vote President Pickles for Most Popular MACUSA President of the Year!"
hS
I was so focused on puzzling over the small text that I missed the big text. They're definitely offering a reward for his arrest and/or information leading to it. I think you're right that the amount for information is less, too—and yeah, looks like a symbol and 2,300 or 2,500 to me.
"... have conclusive evidence" definitely seems to fit better than "are collecting evidence." I bow to your superior observational skills.
Looking at the rest of the paper is fun, too. "Federal Bureau of Covert Vigilance and No-Maj Obliviation - Record Penalties Issued." "Threat Levels of Magical Exposure." "MACUSA on High Alert." Oh dear, they are paranoid, aren't they?
~Neshomeh
Teaser Trailer (TT)
-At TT 0:26, we see the strappy dress Female wears in the speakeasy and poster scenes.
-Around TT 0:29 we see the bank that Newt Disapparates from (I think) in the current trailer. Maybe that's the big columny building? It has a small front door that looks out into an open space, so it could fit. That might mean Newt's worried look while standing in line (TT 0:31) is a reaction to the Thunderbird outside.
-Aha! TT 1:11 shows Female, Blonde, Newt, and Muggle (I assume he's a Muggle?) outside what seems to be the speakeasy - at least, the strappy dress is there. It's not a continuous shot - Female lowers her glowing wand between frames - so maybe this is where the portrait is.
-Shaw's big do seems to take place in the columny building (TT 1:18). If he's a witchhunter, the Thunderbird could've chosen somewhere better, no?
-Why is there a manic child at TT 1:25?
-It looks like the 'lethifold' might invade Shaw's party; at least, there's some sort of smoke efect before everyone falls down at TT 1:29.
-TT 1:43 - heeeeey, it's Pickles out of work clothes. I don't think I've seen this trailer, actually, I need to watch it with sound sometime.
hS
(PS: This was written before Matt's reply below. Just to keep things organised.)
Some information from the HP wiki:
-The shot of Jacob holding something shiny and then being dragged to Newt is labelled Jacob egg hatching.
-The portrait/poster is confirmed as the entrance to the Blind Pig.
-The neon location is confirmed as Times Square.
-That's not cotton weaving! The house-elf is cleaning the wand.
hS
-Location data!
--We get a shot down the street from the house that got destroyed, but it doesn't show any obvious landmarks.
--When Newt comes in we get a lovely skyline shot. It took a bit of searching, but this postcard shows the same spot: Lower Manhattan, as seen from the Hudson. Good, so we're definitely in New York. ^^
--The building with the ornate facade in the next shot (MACUSA HQ?) looks like it must be a real place, but I don't know how to find it.
-When Newt walks down the street (0:47), we see a fairly distinctive flat-topped skyscraper in the background. Anyone know it?
--Ice skating! Central Park, maybe?
--A couple of quick flashes of places, but nothing to pin down.
--That glowing line. Is that a defence system, or a trace on the creature? Correction, three creatures: there's two little lines growing separately to the main one. Either way, it clearly marks where the action takes place. I've traced it out approximately on the map: the lower small line comes straight out of the Empire State Building.
--Bridge. Clearly the ice skating scene again. If we're down on Lower Manhattan (as the map suggests), maybe it's not Central park after all.
--Thunderbird taking off in front of a very nice building. Some sort of library or museum, or maybe government? Intriguingly, it looks like Thunderbird is actually coming out of the ground here (next to the Subway); that's strange, and suggests it's more than just an escaped creature. Or is it flying away from the collapse?
-Somewhere with lots of neon. One readable sign is for Arrow Collars, which seems to be <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TheArrowCollarMan">this. 'Cluett, Peabody & Co' sounds wizardly to me. ^_^ The other signs ('NOW SHO') suggest maybe Broadway? Which puts us down below the line on the map before.
--Oh, yeah, that must by Broadway. There's a sign ending 'PHEUM', and there's an Orpheum Theatre in New York. Okay, it's actually not on Broadway itself, but the samge general area.
--And there we are, third time lucky: it's Times Square. Or maybe it just has the box-office for it? Regardless, this is where the potential Lethifold is playing around.
--And then we're back to the 'museum' from earlier, and some awesomely-dressed shooty guys. Still no idea where it is.
Okay, so that... didn't reveal much. On to Other Stuff.
-Alas, there's not a lot of MACUSA shenanigans in this one. They do seem to have an undercover investigator type, so clearly their dedication to staying out of Muggle business is partly put-on, but other than that...
-The sewing scene: did you notice that the blonde woman changes into the blue dress mid-scene? Guess that explains the look on Newt's face.
-The 'Lethifold': that doesn't match the description of a Lethifold at all. It's not sneaking up on you and eating you while you sleep: it's burrowing underground, smashing stuff, and throwing cars. I also get a hint of claws from some of the frames; I'm almost thinking 'giant mantis'. Are there any insectoid Fantastic Beasts? Though it does have the Dementor shadow effect...
Now, that painting:
-It could be Isolt. That would probably imply we're heading to Ilvermorny, when there's no hint anywhere else that we're leaving Lower Manhattan.
-Could it be the blonde lady from a bit later? Probably not - Female Lead is wearing a strappy dress in the portrait shot, but a coat in the blonde's.
-It seems to be a poster on a brick wall; could it be the entrance to the speakeasy? It is immediately followed by a shot of gambling. That would make it nobody in particular. It's a bit Art Nouveau in style, which makes it a little outdated for the '20s. Actually, Female Lead is wearing the strappy dress in the speakeasy, so I'm going with this answer.
-Regardless of who it is, there's at least two people standing outside it - one clips out of the right-hand side of the shot as we zoom in. That makes it Newt and Female - and in the speakeasy shot, it looks like Newt (out of focus in the background) might have an injured right hand.
And...
-Shaw. Do we know the name Shaw? He's America's Future, I hear. He doesn't seem to be a real US politician (ie, there's no relevant Wiki page), so I'm guessing he's one of those evil witchhunters. Did we know this already?
In conclusion: Newt Scamander is the Eleventh Doctor in disguise. That is all.
hS
I can confirm that the archy door is the entrance to the Woolworth Building, and therefor to MACUSA. (The archy one, not the columny one.) You can also see it in Newt's skyline shot.
Thanks for the names; I don't know that I'll remember them, but I'll try. ^_^ Shaw's rally seems to be the location of the Thunderbird incident, which might mean a connection with the witchhunters (one way or another).
hS
American!Umbridge captured some creatures underground (including the Thunderbird) and, after Newt and Tina wreck the place [TT 1:27, 1:33, 1:36] they all escape?
Also, the "manic child" is called Modesty - A "haunted young girl" with "an ability to see deep into people".
Now I really don't think we're dealing with the lethifold as a main enemy, though :/ In TT Graves says "No human on Earth knows what that thing's capable of" which I assume is after they learned that something big had escaped Newt's suitcase? Which also beggs the question how did Newt captured that creature in the first place.
Apparently, the creature I've assumed to be an albino griffin is actually a Thunderbird!
And also, what I've assumed to be a cockatrice is an occamy.
Also, I completely agree with Herr Graubart - that is totally a female goblin. Why on Earth did I say a female House Elf?
(Still hoping for that to need a definite article, of course.)
But... why would Newt have a, the, or any Thunderbird in his suitcase? That's an American creature. Is Thunderbird meddling in the events of the film? I've got to admit, it would be awesome to see a subplot where the magical creatures of North America take the opportunity to rise up against MACUSA oppression. It's like the Great Sasquatch Rebellion again, but wider-spread...
More coming, I promise. ^_~
hS
Then again, he has an Australian billywig, so why no a Thunderbid?
But, if you look at the scene where the Thunderbird flies away, it looks as if it came out of that hole in the ground. And since a subway station is there, I assume it was trapped underground for some reason? And it's most likely the same scene from the previous trailer, in which Newt and Tina run away from somebody and Newt unleashes the Swooping Evil.
Could that've been an underground black market for magical creatures?
Isn't the plot that he's been travelling the world, and has just arrived in the US? So he'd have Australian critters, but not American.
Oh, darn, there's previous trailers, aren't there? I may have to go correlate stuff between them. :-/
hS
I’d say it’s a female goblin. Have we ever seen female goblins?
HG
This movie in November, and a new Doctor Who Christmas episode in December... :D I'm happy.
That a lethifold will appear in the movie? I mean, it would be awesome if it did, but I haven't heard anything about it and a quick Google search just brings up speculation about what we'll get to see. Not to mention, how would a people-eating blanket known for slipping under doorways cause that much destruction, or why? I think, if anything, it would be something new we haven't seen in the book.also lethifolds aren't confirmed to be cousins of the dementor, that's just speculation
I like the nogtail idea, though. That was my first thought as well.
At least that's what one of the Pottermore writers, who was present on the set, wrote:
"because if there’s one thing on this set more terrifying than a Lethifold, it’s accidentally being in shot."
Also, yeah I know that they aren't confirmed to be related. Hence the quotation marks at cousin. :P
