Subject: The plan was to have ambient sound without an OST, yeah
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Posted on: 2018-06-24 01:21:00 UTC
And true, the OST is pretty ambient, but it's notably different without it. You don't get those little noises and chants and such. It's a little... emptier. Less atmosphere. Trent totally made the right call.
Right, I'm back from a wonderful two-week music camp in the mountains, and now that I've caught up with everything, I'd like to share a little music theory and other musings with regards to soundtracks. To keep this post from getting long, I'm only going to present one analysis, and it's one that I think no one else has done before, so here you go.
Tritones are Scary
A tritone is an interval that splits the scale in half, or is essentially a fifth except the top note is flat (C and F#, D and G#, B and F, etc.) In the era of classical music, the tritone was said to be a musical manifestation of the devil, and was thus never used. Nowadays, people aren't quite as superstitious, but we still know that a tritone brings tension to music.
Take a look (er, listen) at the following examples from the soundtracks of Wolfenstein 3D and Lichtspeer (ironically using tritones on the same notes):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jVUqzoSlpc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td09zQOb6uA&t=3m17sec
Here's a little analysis:
The first, called "The Ultimate Challenge", is the second boss track of Wolfenstein 3D, and it is used for the fights against General Fettgesicht (the hardest boss) and Adolf Hitler (for similar obvious reasons). The song sets up tension by beginning with the combination of a tritone interval and a seemingly uneven rhythm, then goes back and forth between clearer-sounding and dissonant chords. The B major chords feel heroic to me, and the dissonance very tense, and the song as a whole creates a nice serious contrast to the other boss theme, which is basically just a very catchy-fied Nazi Party anthem. Knowing that the iD Software of the 90s were definitely a bunch of goofballs, they could very well have known that the tritone is "the devil's interval" and been using it to very subtly compare Hitler to Satan. Who knows? All I know is that this song definitely didn't calm my nerves when fighting either of these bosses.
The second piece is, if I'm understanding footage from boss fight compilations correctly, the theme for Lichtspeer's first boss, Das Viking Pirate King. Like "The Ultimate Challenge", it constantly goes back and forth between harmony and discord (in this case, from a fifth to a tritone), but in a much simpler manner. Combined with the fact that these notes are at first played on a synth I find similar to the type of sound that's normally only reserved for aliens and ghosts, this song makes the blatant establishment that you are up against a greater threat than what you have previously seen. As with most of the boss themes, but here especially, it heavily draws on the track before it that (if I have this right) represents the levels that precede the boss. Overall, especially considering how Das Viking Pirate King himself is rather vanilla among bosses, this does a pretty good job of introducing the presence of bosses to Lichtspeer.
So now, what do you have to say about various soundtracks, for video games, movies, or anything else? Or about musicals, can't leave those out either! Just make sure it stays mostly about music theory and not about lyrics, because otherwise the whole thread will be about lyrics, won't it. Looking forward to your thoughts!
-Twistey, going off to brainwash herself with catchy electronic music... some more
The music for 4X games has to really build character for the game involved, since there's not a huge amount of pre-prepared story a lot of the time. Here are a few of my favourites from the wonderful world of turn-based strategy:-
Shoshone Peace Theme (Civilization V: Brave New World)
This is an emotional piece, recalling the experiences of the Trail Of Tears and the genocide committed against all of America's indigenous civilizations whilst still sounding absolutely majestic. It also makes a great companion piece to...
America Industrial/Modern Theme (Civilization 6)
Civ 6 is unique in 4X games for having music that actually shifts and becomes more complex as you advance through the game. This track is from the midpoint in the game, and is based (as are all the America tracks) on the parlor song "Hard Times Come Again No More". This is a triumphal piece of music, full of hope and optimism and sounding like the OST of the greatest Western you've never seen. For something meant to represent the United States, that's a good indicator that things've gone right.
Across The Drift (Riftborn Theme, Endless Space 2)
It has to be said that the historical 4X games have it quite a lot easier than fantasy or sci-fi ones - there's already a culture and body of work upon which the music can draw, rather than obliging the composer to come up with one or imply one exists. This theme for the transdimensional time-manipulating Riftborn sells their cold, ordered, but compassionate nature really well - the ticking metronomes and clocks in the background is a great touch.
More later, if you want.
Evokes a reaction in me, definitely. Currently I'm too tired to have enough attention span to listen all the way through, but I really do like this stuff. Thanks for showing me!
-Twistey
If we're talking about Civ games, I'd be remiss not to mention Christopher Tin's excellent work on the themes for IV and VI. Baba Yetu won a Grammy, and is also one of my all-time favorite pieces of music to relax to. Sogno di Volare... isn't that good. But it's good.
I don't think you can go wrong with the ones of the Atlus games.
The musics from the Persona and Shin Megami Tensei games are always suited to the scenes they're played in, going from epic to dramatic to sad to fluff to epic godslaying... Rock was never so awesome before. And acid jazz for Persona 5. All of it coming mainly from composer Shoji Meguro (guesss it's no cance they decided to create dancing game spin-offs of Persona 3, 4 and 5.
And to name an individual track, Magus' Battle Theme from Chrono Trigger is juuust what the doctor ordered.
Sorry, too tired to analyze, but I do like this.
-Twistey
Knuckle Sandwich is an upcoming indie game, which is a sort of RPG kinda thing in the stylings of the Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga games and Earthbound. I, in general, recommend it a lot. Play the demo! It's really funny and fun and also gets really really dark.
But, anyways, one of the central parts of the game, as according to its dev, is the soundtrack - indeed, from what I can tell, of the five or six people working on it, everyone but the lead dev is a musician.
My particular favourite songs from the demo are Back Alley Beat and Ninety Eight. The music uses a lot of kind of sampling of human voices and so on, and, in general, fits the kind of quirky, goofy tone the game goes for.
Also, I'll just recommend Nelward, one of the game's musicians, as a whole. He's what drew me to it. It's kinda hard to describe his music, except as, well, sort of goofy electronic whatever such? Love that guy, anyway.
Honestly, I'm too tired to analyze, but I do notice that it sounds very hip-hop style, which sounds about right given the game's name is Knuckle Sandwich. I do like that human voice sampling.
-Twistey
Let's give 'em a look, shall we?
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8P_raHQ4EoWTSH2GMESMQA
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeZLO2VgbZHeDcongKzzfOw
https://www.youtube.com/user/ongakuconcept
-Twistey
Every Other Beat makes remixes of songs where every other beat is taken out. Check out their rendition of Smooth Criminal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLvDnRU_ajk
-Twistey
Stuart Copeland (the drummer from The Police) did the soundtrack to the Spyro The Dragon PS1 games - aka. The Good Spyro Games. One of my favourite tracks in the whole series is Fireworks Factory, which really sells the level's themes of rocket ninjas without resorting to tired Orientalist leitmotifs. Check it out here:-
Fireworks Factory (Spyro 3: Year of the Dragon)
I'm really looking forward to the Spyro: Reignited trilogy, whenever that comes out, purely because of the music.
Speaking of remasters, the N. Sane Trilogy had some fantastic music of its own that updated the tracks (which were done by one of the blokes from Devo). This, ICYMI, was the Crash Bandicoot original trilogy remaster from last summer that I drooled over. There's some pretty nice music in there, and one of my favourites is the updated Hang Eight theme, with its jungle surf theme. Another choice track from the N. Sane Trilogy is the updated Road Crash theme, which has a brilliant '50s vibe.
Hang Eight/Air Crash/Plant Food (Crash Bandicoot 2: Cortex Strikes Back, N. Sane Trilogy)
Hog Ride/Road Crash/Orange Asphalt/Area 51 (Crash Bandicoot 3: Warped, N. Sane Trilogy)
Hope those are interesting.
And I love it.
Might analyze it further a bit later. What you mentioned about Fireworks Factory is right - reminds me of a video I saw where a guy ranted about how winter level music can't ever seem to ditch those god dang sleigh bells. If you're interested, I can find that.
-Twistey
Those games are some of the few I've actually played through, and the soundtrack is a big part of the reason. If I can't stand how a game sounds, I'm not gonna stick to it, so a soundtrack can make or break it for me. Just about every sound in the Spyro games is charming and easy on the ears—very well designed, in my uneducated opinion. I enjoyed listening to it for hours. {= )
Listening to that track by itself, it reminds me of a CD my brother picked up featuring taiko drums. (Here's an example of just drums.) And then they weave the typical Spyro electronic-ish stuff back in. Pretty cool.
But, that's also part of why I got into Skyrim. The soundtrack, the scenery, and really everything about it is just gorgeous.
~Neshomeh
'S'why it bugged me when that Playstation All-Stars fighting game came out and there was no Spyro or Crash as playable characters. I mean, that is some BS right there. And they would've been very easy to do! =]
I mean, I'd even want to talk about the same level you did!
Spyro 3 remains one of my all-time favorite games. This is a big part of why.
Other YotD standouts:
Molten Crater
Cloud Spires
Charmed Ridge
Playstation Rules, XBox drools! :-P
Well, I did say I was a child again.
I admit I don't know enough about music to really delve into the intricacies of how they're written.
But I will take the opportunity to gush about one of my favorite soundtracks, namely to the musical Hamilton. An obvious pick, yes, but I love the clever lyrics, use of different music styles and the way the story is told. The words flow together smoothly and the music reflects the character and story beats (and being me a history buff doesn't hurt my enjoyment of the musical one bit... even if there are some creative liberties taken).
Sorry for the simplistic terms, I'm not smart enough to understand all the technical details. I could link to someone else who understands it better than I could...
...I could check them out and see what I can dig up music theory wise. Or you could link to a YouTube thing, either way works.
-Twistey
The entire playlist should be on YouTube, I highly recommend listening to it (though be warned, it WILL get stuck in your head). Let's start with the first song at least: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VhinPd5RRJw
But before you do here's an introduction to the musical: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6sziLDcwSRQ
(I also recommend watching more of this person's videos, she mainly reviews bad musicals. It's quite entertaining.)
Enjoy!
I love id Software. The board ought to know this by now. So let's start there. IMHO, Wolf3D doesn't stand the test of time, so on to the next one.
Enough has been written about the Doom soundtrack. It's great. It's also MIDI, so everyone will probably hear something slightly different. Anyone remember MIDI? Yeah.
Also, it just rips off a ton of metal. All the metal. Still great though.
Quake! Wait, Quake had a soundtrack? Yes. Yes it does. Composed by Nine Inch Nails, no less. You probably haven't noticed it because it's really ambient. Well, except for that title theme. If you have the Steam version, you may never have heard any of that, because Quake had a Redbook soundtrack. Read: the CD was actually an audio CD, and the game won't play the soundtrack unless it's in the drive, because it doesn't exist on disc. So the Steam version doesn't even contain a soundtrack. Thankfully, there are ways to get it working again if you download a modern sourceport.
Quake 2 got hit with the redbook problem too. Which is a shame, because speaking as a metal fan, Quake 2's soundtrack is killer. I mean, listen to this!. Q2's soundtrack is the best part of that game, easy. Which isn't hard, because it's the weakest Quake game, also easy. Throwing out the horror and oppressivenes for sci-fi action and space marines killing borg didn't serve the game well, and neither did the endless brown and grey. The Edge was a bangin' DM level, though.
And finally, Quake 3, the best deathmatch game ever devised by man. I know that's high praise, but I really really really really really like this game. They brought in a few bands on this one, including the Quake 2 guys. Sonic Mayhem 1 and 5 are particularly memorable, but the one that sticks out to me most is probably this one. Because it seems to play whenever I load up Q3DM17, which is probably the most played map in Quake 3 by a mile. It's also not a very good map, but that's another story.
But I'd be remiss if I didn't mention Unreal Tournament, Quake 3's competition. Because that game also has a soundtrack, and what a soundtrack it is. Alexander Brandon is widely regarded as brilliant, and this more theatrical soundtrack doesn't disappoint. The song everyone remembers is Foregone Destination, which backed Facing Worlds, the UT99 equivalent of Q3DM17. Well, that and the fantastic Menu theme. That thing is great.
Even better, and by the same guy, is the theme to Deus Ex. Oh jeez. I can listen to that all day.
More to come, probably.
...but I don't know much about Quake. I'll click on that Quake 1 title theme because I'm retro...
What really stands out to me is the fact that it has a pattern that lasts 3 measures long, instead of a conventional power of 2. Or it's just very slow 3/4 time, take your pick.
Wait why's there someone screaming fading in and out on loop? Oh yeah, dark edgy game. It's getting ol- okay now it's fading out entirely. Good. Starting to hear that ambience now. I really like that.
Yeah, that does a really good job. Thumbs up!
-Twistey, suddenly laughing about her stupid idea for a bootleg Quake called Quack
Fun fact: Quake wasn't supposed to have a soundtrack at all, originally. But Trent Reznor convinced the team to add it. He also did a lot of the other sound effects as well: IIRC, those grunts and screams and stuff? That's Trent.
There are very few types of games that can get away with having no soundtrack, not even ambience or event-related music. I can't think of any, but I know they're out there, so...
-Twistey
And true, the OST is pretty ambient, but it's notably different without it. You don't get those little noises and chants and such. It's a little... emptier. Less atmosphere. Trent totally made the right call.
So two things: 1. I don't understand music on the same deep level of notes and such that twistey does, but there's some cleverness to the songs in this game I still want to bring up.
and 2. I realize this is a super tiny, minor fandom no one else here cares about but uh . . . I think this is at least somewhat interesting anyway?
So, for being an ultimately sub-par game, Epic Mickey has an utterly gorgeous and creative soundtrack, composed by James Dooley. The basic mechanic of the game is that you can advance past obstacles either by using paint to create new objects, or to brute force through things by dissolving existing objects with thinner. Most of the game levels (themed around Disney park attractions) have a music theme with five separate variations: the "base" version, a version where you're mostly using paint to get through, a version where you're only using paint to get through, a version where you're mostly using thinner to get through, and a version where you're only using thinner to get through. The paint-oriented versions tend to be focused on high-pitched chimes, and are generally gentler and more light-hearted feeling than the base version. The thinner versions tend to become very slow, with creepy violins and deep baritone notes added.
This feature was also used to hide musical easter eggs in the soundtrack. One level has the Micky Mouse Club March hidden in its music, at 1:02. It's identifiable, but the notes and tone are way off. Using lots of paint restores the tune to a more recognizable form. (Same point in time.) Using lots of thinner, though, appropriately wipes that tune completely out of the song!
—doctorlit hopes this is at least marginally interesting to anyone else . . .
That one has It's A Small World hidden in it. I can particularly note how towards the end of the loop, the evil-sounding stuff (key: A minor) that's layered under the sweet innocent bits (key: A Major) switches to A Major as well, kinda suggesting something heroic or hopeful amidst that corruption. I don't know what happens before and after that fight, but if I were to be given context, I'd probably be able to analyze it further.
Epic Mickey seems like a pretty cool game.
-Twistey
It is a very cool game. I wish the presentation had been more polished, but it was memorable nonetheless.
Unfortunately, the Clock Tower boss fight doesn't have much set-up as a character in its own regard. (It is a building, after all. It couldn't really be present anywhere but that room where Mickey fights it.) There's a comment a little before that battle that one of the villains has made it go mad, and afterwards, it has its one line of dialogue apologizing for not acting itself. So I guess you could say the "evil-sounding stuff" represents the madness, while the more normal "Small World" notes are the . . . more normal personality?
Incidentally, the level that features the Clock Tower as the boss at the end has a normal battle theme that also has "It's a Small World" incorporated into it, as well as clock-based sound effects. It's subtle, but noticeable if you pay attention. It's also my favorite track out of the whole game. Give a listen? There's a subtle tune of "Small World" at 0:04, a slow, baritone version at 0:14, and a stronger, dramatic version at 0:39.
—doctorlit should maybe get around to playing the sequel he's had sitting on the shelf for literally years, yeah?
I played this game and didn’t notice these soundtrack shenanigans at the time (although I did feel like the music added a lot to creating the world), so thank you for pointing them out!
. . . so when I'm playing a game, I tend to subconsciously memorize the background music. It definitely makes the music a big part of the play experience for me!
—doctorlit