Subject: I have to agree there.
Author:
Posted on: 2008-09-12 06:35:00 UTC
I mean, I LIKE Mary Poppins, and isn't half the definition of a Sue the fact that almost everyone hates her? There are (fanfic) characters around that have almost every Sueish quality imaginable, but remain good characters because they are interesting and well-written.
And it's too easy to hurt feelings this way. (...Aside from Eragon, I think - we can all pretty much agree on THAT one.)
How does Ferris Bueller avoid being a Marty Stu? Why is watching him get away with everything and get out of every situation funny instead of grating on nerves?
I think it is because they don't attempt to avoid Ferris being a Stu.
He is, and Ferris definitely knows it, and uses it to his advantage in the movie. Which makes it funny instead of annoying.
Actually, Ferris is kind of like a male Haruhi Suzumiya, now that I think about it.
I think certain characters just reach a point where they're so much a part of our heritage that we accept they're Mary-Sues / Gary-Stus, but we can forgive them. I mean, with Mary Poppins, it says she's 'Practically Perfect in Everyway' so we know what to expect. Same with Ferris Bueller. The movie starts very confidantly, and we expect him to succeed. If he hadn't there would have been many feelings of disappointment, huh?
Obviously, there are Sue characters in original fiction, but do we still call them 'Sues'? I mean, as far as I know, the term "Mary Sue" applies only to fanfiction characters inserted into someone else's word. (And personally, at least 'formally', I think it should stay that way.)
They're called Canon Sues, and there's an LJ group devoted to them named, aprops enough, canon_sues. The main character of Cassie Clare's original fic trilogy has been pegged as one. The first two books have been sporked and I'm working on sporking the third. Oh, and there's another trilogy set to kick off in 2010. I look forward to shredding that one as well.
Anthony Caine of For Better or For Worse has also been identified as a Canon Stu.
I thought "Canon Sue" was simply another way of saying "Possession Sue" or "Sue![canon]".
Sporking's always fun... *evil grin*
It depends.
The only thing that differentiates a Canon Sue from a Mary Sue is the type of fic they reside in. There are tests out there online to tell if your original character is a 'Sue.
One glaring sign your character might be a Sue is if she and the hottie who've been lusting after one another for an entire novel find out they're actually brother and sister at the end, and in the next novel of the trilogy they spend pretty much the entire thing drooling over one another and not one single person around them slaps them up and says, "Hello, incest?". If, when the third novel opens, she's having a Sad Moment because *sniffleweep* her brother is acting like he has no feelings for her anymore and she was just So!Sure he really did and now she feels like a knife has been driven through her heart. It only took him the entire last novel to finally say, "Yeah, we really should cool it" and then he had to go and ruin it with body language and actions and tone of voice that made it abundantly clear he was doing it only out of extreme reluctance. I have no idea how much incestuous lusting the third novel of Cassie Clare's trilogy is packed with, but considering she remarks that the character on the front cover of Novel three comes between Canon Sue and her Incestuous Lust Interest, I feel secure in saying there's plenty to be had and that it won't turn out to be incest after all because *gaspsurprise* he's not actually her brother. He was confused/switched at birth with her real brother so it's perfectly fine for them to be shagging like nymphos deprived for a year. *rolls eyes muchly*
Cheers, Tza. Basically, a Bad Character with Bad Plot and Bad Everything Else... *gags*
That hurt on so many different levels I think I need to go lie down. Though this does give me an idea for a page to create on the Wiki; a list of Canon-Sues found in Original Fiction.
So, we have three people so far:
Ferris Bueller
Mary Poppins
Eragon
Anyone got any more to add?
Somehow, he manages to avoid being a Marty Stu. Do add Clary Fray, from CC's books. You can find others to add at the canonsues LJ (<a href="http://community.livejournal.com/canonsues">http://community.livejournal.com/canon_sues)
But they're still fun.
Not everyone agrees on who should be listed, and putting someone else's favourite canon down may cause screaming.
hS
I mean, I LIKE Mary Poppins, and isn't half the definition of a Sue the fact that almost everyone hates her? There are (fanfic) characters around that have almost every Sueish quality imaginable, but remain good characters because they are interesting and well-written.
And it's too easy to hurt feelings this way. (...Aside from Eragon, I think - we can all pretty much agree on THAT one.)
There are a number of characters I can completely agree are Suvian - but I don't let that bother me. (Doublethink, much?)
Honor Harrington, for instance. I sometimes say that she overcomes Sueness by excessive application of the Rule of Awesome, but that's not really the case. After all, one of the contributors to Suvianity is being awesome.
And to top that off, I couldn't even begin to tell you why I like Sue!Honor but not, for instance, the protagonist of the Truth series by Dawn Cook - a series I put down sometime in the third book specifically because I didn't like how Suvian she was becoming.
So, to conclude, while you're probably right about the list being a bad idea and feelings getting hurt, it's by no means inevitable.
Particularly the ones who are absolutely beautiful women but manage to dress up convincingly as boys.
She regains her virginity by walking through a magical fire in the center of the earth. Not to mention the long paragraphs of description she gets and the fact that she causes riots with her beauty...
...the Regaining of the Virginity made me do a double-take, then slam the book against my head. I mean...WTF? And then the whole "I can manipulate water so I shall use it as a sex toy" thing...still can't decide whether to laugh or cry.
...the Time-Paradox thing with Meridion. And the crawling from one side of the earth to the other on a tree root.
...how Rhapsody sings a song and suddenly everything's peachy.
Yeah, Rhapsody's a HUGE canon-Sue. As is Ashe/Sam.
...is that the side characters are actually pretty cool. It's just Rhapsody/Emily and Ashe/Sam that fall into Suedom.
Rhapsody's backstory makes me laugh, sadly. It's so over-the-top.
Grrrr...VAMPIRES DON'T SPARKLE...grrr...
Hanabusa Aido (Vampire Knight) could. Of course he's an extremely vain day-tolerating Noble-class vampire with ice powers, who would achieve this by creating small ice crystals in the air around him to catch the light. And only to show off. And only until Kaname tells him to stop it.
Bella Swann. *twitch*