Did someone say graphs?! ^_^ ^_^

Subject: Did someone say graphs?! ^_^ ^_^
Author: Huinesoron
Posted on: 2020-04-12 09:50:21 UTC

(The delightful Aoife McLysaght courtesy the 2018 Royal Institution Christmas Lectures.)

You never need to ask nicely to get me to make graphs. :D

First, though, I have to offer up a few suggestions for improving the timeline:

-Which was the last mission posted before The Takedown? You have it as 15, assuming that the A/N was added when it was rehosted. That makes a certain amount of sense: one of the things FF.net has always despised is 'interactive stories', and TOS15 is the mission where a bunch of reviewers and fans show up at the barbeque. It may have been the metaphorical straw that brought the hammer down.

But... that author's note really reads more like "hey look, we wrote another mission!". The biggest clue is in Jay's comment: I ceased to be bitter about this some time ago, and just view it as INCENTIVE to get our mirror site up. (Emphasis added.) If this was a rehost of the last posted mission, would she have made it sound so long? I'm pretty sure there were reviews saying P@L was hosting stuff within a couple of days. For example, Tina on this page says it on the very next day!

-When was TOS15 "The Dark Elf" posted? I'm still not sure exactly what happened on March 12 2003, but it wasn't the founding of the Board - that was up before December 2002. Best guess is that P@L moved her site, or had a crash and relaunched it. (In fact, the Tina review above includes a really weird partial link; if it's to P@L's hostage, then she definitely moved it later.)

Neither of these change the overall picture too much, and that picture is surprisingly simple!

Jay and Acacia worked at a constant rate until they were taken down. Then, on average, they shifted to a new, lower constant rate for the second half of the series. The break is even more apparent when you break the graph in two:

You can see from the equations that their rate of publication pretty much quartered when they were taken down. Before the Takedown, they were posting a mission every 11 days or so; afterwards, they dropped to every ~45 days.

The big change from that is missions 17-19, all posted in August 2002. As Neshomeh pointed out, this is the school holidays - and in missions 20 and 21, Jay mentions that she's been busy with school. It's so delightful when things come together like that.

... and I'm still finding new information. I've tracked down the original Oddlots link! It confirms the following latest dates:

-TOS17: before August 3rd.

--In fact, TOS17: June 29th, 2002.

-TOS20: 9 Oct confirmed.

-The Board: linked by December 11 2002.

-TOS21: 02/12/27, A christmas present from our Original Assassins.

All of which smooths out the graph even more:

I'm also trying to hunt down Arwen Lune's website, mentioned by Architeuthis in the Clan of the Cactus reviews. She's on FFn and fictionpress, but sadly the latter has stripped out the link to her personal site. She may be the same Arwen Lune as is on the L-Space web - she's certainly active in fandom at the right time - which would make this her website (and this, though there's not a lot there). Indeed, CuteAndFluffy has a bunch of LotR stuff on its links page - but not the PPC, or any fanfic, or any forum.

FAKEEDIT: Definitely the same person: her FF.net profile links to her fanfic LJ community, which links to her personal LJ, which mentions CuteAndFluffy. There is only one Arwen Lune, it seems.

(It looks like the Hidden Archives also mentioned by Architeuthis never hosted the PPC, though they do have Architeuthis' Intelligence briefs if we need a date for those...)

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A wild returnbie has appeared. by IRL Hand of Almalexia on 2020-04-06 07:29:31 UTC Introduction Reply

Hi. Hello. I am absolutely horrible at introducing myself.

Call me Sparrow or just call me by my forum name, IDC. I'm 22, they/them pronouns, write for another original shared universe project known as Arkn Legacy.

I briefly joined this forum and the Discord server associated with it back in 2016, when I was much younger, much more willing to attack others, much less accepting of criticism, and had a nasty habit of simping for space fascists. I'm happy to say I'm cured of that sort of behavior now, so I thought, why not come back and give this place a chance? Y'all seemed cool back in the day, even if I wasn't cool enough to keep up.

So anyway. Stuff I'm into. I'm super into TES obviously, with Morrowind being my all time favorite. I'm also pretty into Persona, Mass Effect, Homestuck, Neal Shusterman's books, Firefly, and I... was into Doctor Who for a while? Not so much anymore, I've taken kind of a break from that fandom, but I'm interested in rediscovering the magic of it.

As for stuff I'm getting into– I'm slowly making my way through Twin Peaks, Torment: Tides of Numenera, and JoJo's Bizarre Adventure.

I'm all about the lighthearted mockery of bad tropes– it's a good way to know what to steer clear of in my own writing. Idk man. Mostly yaboi is bored in lockdown and needs something to do.

Welcome back! by SomeRandomPersonAccount on 2020-04-08 23:00:14 UTC Edited Reply

Welcome back! Have a pair of gloves that has question mark patterns as a returning gift. Yes, I am a newbie. I joined the PPC last year.

I have heard that Morrowind was a good game, but I can’t play it since I don’t have a gaming computer. Besides, the computer that I have struggles to run old games such as TF2. Bethesda hasn’t even ported Morrowind to the Switch, so I guess that it’s going to be a long time before I get to play it.

Edit: I don’t know how I managed to screw up my spelling.

~SomeRandomPersonAccount

You could probably run Morrowind on a toaster– by IRL Hand of Almalexia on 2020-04-10 15:44:10 UTC Reply

I don't have a gaming computer either. My computer is a half busted potato that's being held together by literal string and somehow still functions lmaooooo

I've never had any problems with Morrowind. It was made in like '03, so pretty much any system can run it.

On the other hand I tried to play Control the other day and it turns out it literally will not work on an Intel graphics card so I can't get past the first cutscene. C'est la vie I guess.

Anyway, nice to meet you! Thanks for the gloves. :D

Tried OpenMW? by Thoth on 2020-04-10 19:04:59 UTC Reply

It's a reverse-engineering of Morrowind. The mod support isn't as good, but it might run better on modern systems, depending.

But the really cool thing is there's a fork of OpenMW called TES3MP (https://tes3mp.com/) that lets you play Morrowind online with your friends.

Hi there, returnbie by Somariel on 2020-04-07 15:11:26 UTC Reply

It's nice to meet you. I'm also a recent returnbie, coming back after about a decade away.

Wow, a decade? by IRL Hand of Almalexia on 2020-04-07 18:01:31 UTC Reply

I didn't think PPC had been around for that long. Nice to meet you.

The PPC's been around since 2003, I think. by Somariel on 2020-04-10 19:26:44 UTC Reply

It started in the early '00s at the very least.

2001, I believe by Thoth on 2020-04-10 21:35:38 UTC Reply

At least, that's the timestamp I always hear.

Ooh, ooh, hS! Let's show them the TOS timeline! {= D by Neshomeh on 2020-04-11 04:23:14 UTC Reply
I was digging into the deep history of the PPC recently, and the first six missions of the Original Series must have been written between December 19, 2001 and February 13-27, 2002.
- December 19, 2001, is the date The Fellowship of the Ring was released in theaters. They can't have started before that, since the first mission is in response to the fanfiction explosion in the wake of the film.
- In the authors' notes for mission 6, Jay invites people to write spin-offs.
- In mission 7, Acacia acknowledges Architeuthis, KazraGirl, Black Katana, "and anyone else I'm forgetting" as spin-off authors.
- Black Katana is the only one of those whose publication date I can confirm with certainty, thanks to Wayback Machine. It was February 27, 2002.
- In mission 13, Jay lists all the spin-offs known at the time. GreyLadyBast's "Taken Far Too Literally" is one of them, and it was first published on February 13, 2002. It's not clear if she knew about the PPC when she started or not, so it may or may not count.
Some spin-offs on the list are unrecoverable, and of course TOS was kicked off its original home on Fanfiction.net, so this is the best information we have.

It's entirely possible that Jay and Acacia started in late December, 2001 (perhaps over winter holidays?). Araeph claimed TOS was started in 2001 on an early version of its page on the wiki, and as one of the original record-keepers of the PPC, Araeph is a pretty trustworthy source. Either way, they were certainly in full swing in February 2002 and didn't slow down until about September. Here's what hS and I were able to find out between us:

TOS missions - best publication dates
- 01-06 - after December 19, 2001 and before February 13-27, 2002, per FotR release and earliest known spin-off releases (GreyLadyBast [debatable], Black Katana) - see https://ppc.fandom.com/wiki/Spin-off
- 07 "Children of the Earth" - c. March 12, 2002, per best-guess publication date of the latest of the three earliest acknowledged spin-offs (KazraGirl), based on earliest available review - https://web.archive.org/web/20021101103604/http://fanfiction.net/reviews.php?storyid=653198
- 10 "Vacation at OFUM" - c. April 8, 2002, per Miss Cam's comment on OFUM Chapter 39 - https://www.fanfiction.net/r/644826/0/164/
- 15 "The Maiden" - c. May 10, 2002, per date of series rehosting on OddLots
- 17 "Darkness Awakened" - on or before August 10, 2002, per Henneth Annun update date - https://web.archive.org/web/20030920231838/http://henneth-annun.net/stories/chapter.cfm?STID=182
- 18 "Two Worlds" - August 21, 2002, per Henneth Annun update date
- 19 "Torment" - August 25, 2002, per Henneth Annun update date
- 20 "The Luggage Runs Off" - October 9, 2002, per Henneth Annun update date
- 21 "The Dark Elf" - c. March 12, 2003, per mention of the founding of the Board in authors' notes
- 21/22 "Elemental Crystals" - before April 18, 2003, per first Wayback capture date on Miss Cam's site - https://web.archive.org/web/20030418094347/http://www.misssandman.com/PPC/story.html (page format got broken with this one)
- 23/24 "A Taste of Blood" and 24/25 "Broken Doll" - June 15, 2003, per OddLots update date
- 23 "To Know Where You're Going" - August 12, 2003, per OddLots update date
- 25/26 - "No Way Back" - before August 21, 2003, per earliest mission capture on Miss Cam's site - https://web.archive.org/web/20030821194202/http://www.misssandman.com/PPC/Bip.html
If you ask nicely, maybe hS will share the graphs he made to go with this info. ^_~

~Neshomeh, geek

Did someone say graphs?! ^_^ ^_^ by Huinesoron on 2020-04-12 09:50:21 UTC Reply

(The delightful Aoife McLysaght courtesy the 2018 Royal Institution Christmas Lectures.)

You never need to ask nicely to get me to make graphs. :D

First, though, I have to offer up a few suggestions for improving the timeline:

-Which was the last mission posted before The Takedown? You have it as 15, assuming that the A/N was added when it was rehosted. That makes a certain amount of sense: one of the things FF.net has always despised is 'interactive stories', and TOS15 is the mission where a bunch of reviewers and fans show up at the barbeque. It may have been the metaphorical straw that brought the hammer down.

But... that author's note really reads more like "hey look, we wrote another mission!". The biggest clue is in Jay's comment: I ceased to be bitter about this some time ago, and just view it as INCENTIVE to get our mirror site up. (Emphasis added.) If this was a rehost of the last posted mission, would she have made it sound so long? I'm pretty sure there were reviews saying P@L was hosting stuff within a couple of days. For example, Tina on this page says it on the very next day!

-When was TOS15 "The Dark Elf" posted? I'm still not sure exactly what happened on March 12 2003, but it wasn't the founding of the Board - that was up before December 2002. Best guess is that P@L moved her site, or had a crash and relaunched it. (In fact, the Tina review above includes a really weird partial link; if it's to P@L's hostage, then she definitely moved it later.)

Neither of these change the overall picture too much, and that picture is surprisingly simple!

Jay and Acacia worked at a constant rate until they were taken down. Then, on average, they shifted to a new, lower constant rate for the second half of the series. The break is even more apparent when you break the graph in two:

You can see from the equations that their rate of publication pretty much quartered when they were taken down. Before the Takedown, they were posting a mission every 11 days or so; afterwards, they dropped to every ~45 days.

The big change from that is missions 17-19, all posted in August 2002. As Neshomeh pointed out, this is the school holidays - and in missions 20 and 21, Jay mentions that she's been busy with school. It's so delightful when things come together like that.

... and I'm still finding new information. I've tracked down the original Oddlots link! It confirms the following latest dates:

-TOS17: before August 3rd.

--In fact, TOS17: June 29th, 2002.

-TOS20: 9 Oct confirmed.

-The Board: linked by December 11 2002.

-TOS21: 02/12/27, A christmas present from our Original Assassins.

All of which smooths out the graph even more:

I'm also trying to hunt down Arwen Lune's website, mentioned by Architeuthis in the Clan of the Cactus reviews. She's on FFn and fictionpress, but sadly the latter has stripped out the link to her personal site. She may be the same Arwen Lune as is on the L-Space web - she's certainly active in fandom at the right time - which would make this her website (and this, though there's not a lot there). Indeed, CuteAndFluffy has a bunch of LotR stuff on its links page - but not the PPC, or any fanfic, or any forum.

FAKEEDIT: Definitely the same person: her FF.net profile links to her fanfic LJ community, which links to her personal LJ, which mentions CuteAndFluffy. There is only one Arwen Lune, it seems.

(It looks like the Hidden Archives also mentioned by Architeuthis never hosted the PPC, though they do have Architeuthis' Intelligence briefs if we need a date for those...)

hS

The REAL founding date of the Board! by Neshomeh on 2020-04-13 04:01:29 UTC Reply

Was apparently November 3, 2002, per Odd Lots.

So, the original Board would have turned 17 last November, if it had existed just three more days. It was so close. {= (

And I have NO IDEA where March 12 came from, and since that bit of 2008 vanished without trace, I don't know how to even begin trying to find out. o.o

~Neshomeh

Now that I do know. by Huinesoron on 2020-04-13 07:51:25 UTC Reply

My Oddlots archive preserves the dear old 'You are approximately visitor since this site was relaunched on March 12th 2003'. That text, complete with dead counter, greeted me when I first joined the PPC, and is where I got my idea of when the Board began.

But an ACTUAL launch date! That's incredible. I remember I theorised it had to be late October or so, based on the post numbers, but a specific date... wow. Well done! o

hS

Wiki updates underway. by Neshomeh on 2020-04-14 18:11:16 UTC Reply

Years 2002 and 2003 have the dates we can nail down closely enough to include, and I've added some information to P@L's page, too.

Looking at the captures of Odd Lots is dangerous. There's so much interesting stuff there!

Possible headcanon band-aids: The Flowers were celebrating the actual fifth anniversary of the Board, which was November 3, 2007, but events were displaced several months because Time Works Differently Here. Or, maybe the Flowers were celebrating the anniversary of the relaunch of the PPC hub, the abrupt collapse of which had no doubt caused some sort of crisis we weren't aware of previously because they hushed it up, and agents who didn't know what was going on attempted to explain it as best they could, but were mistaken. All better! {X D

~Neshomeh

Um. Um. UM. by Huinesoron on 2020-04-15 07:53:59 UTC Reply

You missed a trick.

You missed the biggest trick.

In Miss Cam's review note, she tried to provide a link to TOS, but as usual, FF.net broke it.

Um.

But you can reconstruct the link.

And, um.

You can see the first page of TOS.

No date, and as far as I can tell none of the other pages, or the reviews, or the author profile are preserved, but still.

Um.

They also wrote down the authors of the badfics, so we might be able to scrape up a few more entries for the TOS Badfic Archive.

hS, UM.

{= O by Neshomeh on 2020-04-15 15:10:28 UTC Edited Reply

Wow.

Wow wow wow!

I HATE Fanfiction.net for being slow on the uptake about displaying dates on story pages. AAAAH. {X D

I tried poking through captures of the Just In page and the Lord of the Rings category, just in case, but no luck. It was a very long shot; no surprise it didn't land results. Sigh.

Still, we can place "Sisterhood" a bit earlier: before capture date May 4. They must've been publishing about once a week between chapters 10 and 14. Perhaps in general.

ETA: Scratch that. We can place TOS13 "All Soul's Night" before May 4 and "Sisterhood" after it. Because the prologue was its own chapter. {X D

~Neshomeh

-- OMG EXTANT PHYLOGENETIC BRACKETING. by Huinesoron on 2020-04-17 13:36:19 UTC Reply

Or, to put it another way:

"FF.net story numbers are sequential by publication date."

TOS once stood, like a proud castle rising above the stormy sea of Sues, at story ID 576539. The link format has changed, but story IDs have been preserved. So take a modern FF.net story link, paste in that number, and just iterate backwards...

The first extant story before 576539 is 576527. I don't even recognise the fandom, but who cares? We're here for the date, and 'That's Where the Beach Was, That's Where the Sea' was posted on January 30th, 2002.

Working in the other direction... well, 576544 doesn't exist because its category was deleted - theories on a postcard - but 576546 is still there, and sure enough, was also posted on January 30th, 2002.

Double-checking, the next one up is --50, same date. The next one down is --14, also same date. So that's confirmed.

So there we go. At long last, we have a firm date for the creation of the PPC: 2002/01/30.

(And, incidentally, KazraGirl's story's nearest before-neighbour confirms her March 12th date.)

hS

You mad genius, you! by Neshomeh on 2020-04-17 15:55:58 UTC Reply

I don't know if that qualifies as an intelligent response, but I put effort into it, at least! {= D

~Neshomeh with gifs

Mad genius? Always. by Huinesoron on 2020-04-17 16:32:14 UTC Reply

...

...

... is, er. Is that Flower... blushing?

...

... is that the SO or the Marquis? Because either way that's kind of disturbing.

hS

And an incidental find: by Huinesoron on 2020-04-16 09:05:27 UTC Reply

Is AnyAmy's review reply halfway down the page the first mention of the DIA? ^_~

hS

It could be! {= D (nm) by Neshomeh on 2020-04-17 01:20:54 UTC Reply

DID YOU KNOW: by Huinesoron on 2020-04-15 22:46:41 UTC Edited Reply

'Protector of the Ring Bearer' (TOS4) has a sister story: The Watcher

In fact, we can see the summary for the story itself. Looks like the text is long gone though.

... aaaand I've found something much more interesting: Acacia posting 'new chapter!' updates on a forum! Starts at the bottom of a page here: http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?t=3133&page=2

That post dates to Feb 4th. On the next page, in response to several 'write more's - the last dated the 18th - Acy says they've got several new chapters 'up recently', and confirms that the latest - 'just now' on the 20th - is TOS4 (which appears to be this post's Patron Mission).

Another page turned, and TOS5 is announced on the 24th (and Jay makes an appearance!). On March 15th, Acy mentions a story about the daughter of Gandalf and Galadriel, and muses about killing it next - so that firmly PREdates TOS9.

On to page 5, and on March 20th we have the announcement of TOS7. So they didn't do it next, I guess!

Another page turned... on April 10th Jay worries they might get banned from FFn. Um... yeah. Then Acy posts TOS10 on April 12th (so yes, she's not plugging immediately). And then... looks like they stopped plugging it at all.

Still reading, I note that Jay calls it 'PPC', not 'the PPC'. Actually, that's how she called it when we talked way back - 'I used to write PPC once a time upon'. I wonder when that changed.

Okay, that's it for now. I found that thread by searching up the story ID and other relevant words; there may be more out there...

hS

Nice find! by Neshomeh on 2020-04-17 01:18:03 UTC Reply

That's a pretty interesting thread, and well done finding it! The timeline is looking great. {= D

That forum reminds me—you may have this already, but I've been meaning to hunt up the ProBoard that was briefly tested in 2003, where the A/V Department stories and some other threads from the ~~real~~ Posting Board were archived, and I finally did. It still exists, though there's a layer of spam on top of the actual posts: PPC Message Board. Could be worth adding to the current archives, if you don't have them. If for no other reason than that the colors Kaltia used to represent thread nesting make my eyes water. I can barely read the blue text (it's too close in value to the background), and if I stare at the blue next to the red for too long, the paragraphs start to sink/float due to the 3D glasses effect. O.o

There's not a ton there, but it's interesting, reading that the ProBoard was made as a testing ground for mods, to see if it would be worth asking P@L to make changes to the Posting Board allow for them. Reactions to the form of ProBoards were notably mixed, and clearly it didn't catch on. (It likely didn't help that the yellow-on-dark-gray theme is hideous. Not sure if yellows are the same to your eyes, but trust me. {= P )

~Neshomeh
The complete timeline (so far) by Huinesoron on 2020-04-16 09:58:44 UTC Edited Reply

The full timeline, using the Lost Tales order (which, yes, places TOS23: To Know Where You Are Going out of publication order).

((Note: This post has been repeatedly edited to keep it up to date.))

~

TOS1: 2002/01/30 [Extant Phylogenetic Bracketing]

TOS2: between 2002/02/04 - 2002/02/20 [Entmoot - TOS4]

TOS3: between 2002/02/04 - 2002/02/20 [TOS2 - TOS4]

TOS4: ca. 2002/02/20 [Entmoot]

TOS5: ca. 2002/02/24 [Entmoot]

TOS6: between 2002/02/24 - 2002/02/27 [TOS5 - Black Katana]

TOS7: ca. 2002/03/20 [Entmoot]

TOS8: between 2002/03/20 - 2002/04/02 [TOS7 - Robyn's spinoff]

TOS9: between 2002/03/20 - 2002/04/08 [TOS7 - TOS10]

TOS10: ca. 2002/04/08 [Miss Cam]

TOS11: between 2002/04/08 - 2002/04/16 [TOS10 - The Flame]

TOS12: between 2002/04/16 - 2002/04/21 [The Flame - AnyAmy mentions the BBQ]

TOS13: between 2002/04/23 - 2002/05/04 [SilentStep's spinoff - FFn]

TOS14: ca. 2002/05/10 [Oddlots]

TOS15: between 2002/05/16 - 2002/06/01 [Oddlots & TOS16]

TOS16: between 2002/05/16 - 2002/06/01 [Oddlots & OFUM 59]

TOS17: 2002/06/29 [Oddlots]

TOS18: 2002/08/21 [HA / Oddlots]

TOS19: 2002/08/25 [HA]

TOS20: 2002/10/09 [HA/Oddlots]

TOS21: 2002/12/27 [Oddlots]

TOS22: between 2002/12/27 - 2003/04/18 [TOS21 - MissSandman]

TOS23: 2003/08/12 [Oddlots]

TOS24: 2003/06/15 [Oddlots]

TOS25: 2003/06/15 [Oddlots]

TOS26: before 2003/08/21 [MissSandman]

~

Oh, and while we're at it:

PPC Board: 2002/11/03 [Oddlots]

PPC Constitution: 2003/03/09 [Unhinged Mind]

Oddlots rehosted: 2003/03/10 [Unhinged Mind]

PPC homepage rehosted: 2003/03/12 [Unhinged Mind / Oddlots]

hS

Help from Architeuthis by Neshomeh on 2020-04-17 05:15:14 UTC Reply
I'm coming to realize that TOS and Intel are very closely linked. TOS2, "Chosen," was reported by Archy! She was a follower of the PPC from the very start!

Intel1 "The Beginning" and Intel2 "Manic Depressive" (which I'd bet were published at the same time, having a separate chapter for the intro being the done thing) can be placed somewhere between TOS2 "Chosen" and TOS7 "Children of the Earth." (I'm less certain we can date TOS6 based on the assumption that those first three spin-off authors waited for the A/N invitation to publish. Possibly Archy, Katana, and Kazra got permission via reviews or a forum before the general invitation? IDK, my brain is tired.)

Intel3 "Time Will Tell" features Alice, so it goes after TOS9 "Laugh at the Moon" (which is where Alice is recruited) and before 25 May 2002, when the spin-off was rehosted.

TOS15 "The Maiden" (a.k.a. the PPC barbecue) references Clefe and Ash from Intel1 as well as Zaneth the mind-flayer from Intel3.

We know Intel4 "Harry Potter and the One Ring" was published on 17 June 2002 thanks to P@L, which pretty much has to be after TOS15. It's definitely before TOS17 "Darkness Awakened," which was published on 29 June 2002. We also know Intel5 was published on 16 December 2002, again thanks to P@L, and it references TOS19 "Torment" in which Jay deals with bad slash.

It's possible the authors were in communication and could have referred to events in each other's series before they happened, but I don't think so.

So, that gives us:
- Intel1&2: between 2002/02/04 and 2002/03/20 (earliest date for TOS2 and best for TOS7)
- Intel3: between 2002/03/30 and 2002/05/25 (earliest date for TOS9 and Odd Lots)
- Intel4: 2002/06/17 (Odd Lots)
- Intel5: 2002/12/16 (Odd Lots)
And maybe that helps narrow down one or two dates for TOS, but unfortunately, my brain ran out of steam for working it out tonight. I went into this evening planning to work on the TOS playlist I'm trying to build from all the music references (I'm on TOS15). I wasn't intending to process this much information. {= P

Oh, but, re. close ties: Architeuthis was the one to invent the Department of Fictional Psychology??? It's mentioned in Intel1, from Feb/March 2002. Everything I know is wrong! Again! {X D This... suggests that Acacia was referring to FicPsych when she mentions the "Department of Psychology" in "Sisterhood"? Which means DoPsych is a myth...? Except it was canonized via that PPC archival post on LJ, which was rescued from an older site that was posted with J&A's permission. I don't think this mucks up anything for me in-universe, but only a closer reading will tell. ^_^

~Neshomeh can't think anymore tonight.

I have tweaked the timeline. by Huinesoron on 2020-04-17 09:01:18 UTC Edited Reply

I think you're right about Black Katana - she talks about emailling J&A, so we can't fix her to TOS6. She also mentions a lack of vacation, which seems like a specific TOS reference - but given that we already have a datefix for TOS5, I don't think it's going to help.

The reviews to her story do help with one thing, though: they confirm that 'Taken Far Too Literally' was not a PPC spinoff from the beginning, as Bast is still trying to get J&A to read it on 2002/02/27.

--NO WAIT, I take it all back: Katana specifically mentions 'all seven chapters so far'. Since we know the A/N was a standalone first chapter, that means she does postdate TOS6. Phew!

I think the main thing the Architeuthis data provides for TOS is that 'Intel 4 has to be after TOS15'. I've added the claim to the timeline, but, er... what's the logic behind it? I'm afraid I don't follow.

EDIT: iiiis it useful to know that Amy and Brent mention the BBQ at the end of AnyAmy's first mission, which hit FFn on April 21st? The first mention of a BBQ was in TOS13, which I currently have timelined as after April 28th; on checking, that's based on a review date on Bast's story, so probably isn't reliable. I think AnyAmy's evidence may push it back, and narrow down TOS11&12 as well.

hS

Logic by Neshomeh on 2020-04-17 14:32:34 UTC Reply

TOS15 doesn't mention anything from Intel4, while it does make reference to stuff from Intel2&3. It's not the most solid logic, but there it is.

Ah, right, I'd forgotten that about Katana mentioning the chapters. Good. ^_^

And ooh, yeah, AnyAmy helps. That mission is also the source of the horse mentioned in TOS15, so that most likely puts April 21 between TOS13 (where the BBQ idea started) and TOS15 (when it was brought to fruition).

I'm going to go try to find something intelligent to say to your phylogeny post now. {= D {= D {= D

~Neshomeh

Wait, wait, nope. by Huinesoron on 2020-04-17 16:13:20 UTC Reply

AnyAmy must predate TOS13 - because she's mentioned in it! Good grief, I can't see the woods for the trees, can I?

The BBQ is also mentioned in TOS12 - in the authors' note. So at least we know that mission was before the 21st?

Okay, I think I have to Extant Phylogenetic Bracket the TOS13 spinoffs:

~

The Last Word is Always Goodbye: by AnyAmy -- http://fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=733570 -- extant, 2002/04/21

LotR: The Mary-Sue Menace: by Queen of the Damned (well, inspired by us, at any rate.) -- http://fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=715336 -- --25 is 2002/04/11

Freedom's Just Another Word . . . by Black Katana -- http://fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=627968 -- archived, 2002/02/27

The Floater: by NytBloomer -- http://fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=699353 -- extant, 2002/04/03

PPC - The enterprise expands: by KazraGirl -- http://fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=653198 -- --90 is 2002/03/12

Intelligence Briefs for the PPC: by Architeuthis -- http://fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=642406 -- --04 is 2002/03/07

Agents R and... Another R: by Robyn -- http://fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=696601 -- --07 is 2002/04/02.

Protectors of the Plot Continuum- New Recruits: by SilentStep -- http://fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=736896 -- --95 is 2002/04/23.

Taken far too literally: by Grey Lady Bast -- http://www.fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=602168 -- extant, 2002/02/13, but only PPC from ca. 2002/04/28.

PPC: The long, painful day of Anna Maria: by kezya -- http://fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=697658 -- --45 is 2002/04/02

Protectors of the Plot Continuum: The New Kids: by Sakira Kage -- http://fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=701665 -- extant, 2002/04/04

~

So our latest confirmed 'before TOS13' date is 2002/04/23; I think I prefer that to the Bast date, because assuming she got reviewed the day the chapter went up is fraught with peril.

Also! Robyn's story must come after TOS7 (since that's when Ranger was recruited), but I think it also comes after TOS8 (when he was partnered with her): it would be a presumptuous author indeed who wrote their new partner in before officially being given them. So that pins TOS8 a little earlier, which is nice in a 'by degrees' fashion.

hS

Wait, there's more! by Neshomeh on 2020-04-17 18:31:13 UTC Reply

I wanted to see for myself where the next extant story after Intel1 fell, because fact verification is a virtue. I keep forgetting FF.net's timestamps are localized, so when I saw that 642410 falls on 2002/03/06 for me, I was very confused about how it could come before -- -- 04. Then I remembered, had a look at -- -- 04, and found that it falls on 2002/03/06 for me, too.

I wondered how FF.net localizes the timestamps, so I took a peek at the source code around the publication date to see if I could figure it out. I did a little research on what I saw, and discovered that modern FF.net is using Unix timestamps, which give a number equal to the number of seconds that have passed since "standard epoch of 1/1/1970" in whatever timezone you're in.

This means we can use a converter to give us a very specific time of publication. So:

642404 = utime 1015470612 = Thu, 07 Mar 2002 03:10:12 GMT

642410 = utime 1015470704 = Thu, 07 Mar 2002 03:11:44 GMT

If the timestamps are accurate, those stories were posted minutes apart. We know near enough exactly when Architeuthis posted Intel1. {= D Convert to GMT -6 (margin of error 1 or 2 hours either side), and it was a little after 9 PM in the US, which sounds pretty likely to me!

So let's have a look at the TOS1 bracket.

576527 = utime 1012377600 = Wed, 30 Jan 2002 08:00:00 GMT

576546 = utime 1012377600 = Wed, 30 Jan 2002 08:00:00 GMT

...

Lemme double-check that.

...

Yeah, the timestamps are identical. So that's less helpful than I'd hoped. I don't think it's very likely those stories and everything in between were posted at exactly the same second. FF.net is guessing.

How broad a guess is this? Looking at other stories around the same publication date, it looks like most of them the hour of 08:00:00 GMT (though I saw one 07:00:00 GMT). That's interesting. Is FF.net based on the West Coast? Why, yes. Yes it is. Which means they're placing stories at (usually) 00:00:00 Pacific time, i.e. the earliest possible hour on the day in question.

So the day is roughly accurate, at least. Phew!

~Neshomeh

Oooooooh *_* by Neshomeh on 2020-04-13 03:34:24 UTC Reply
It's going to take me a while to properly look through all of this, but very, very nice! {= D

A few notes for now:
- Sadly, I don't think the dates for Architeuthis on the Hidden Archives are helpful; they don't agree with the release dates on Odd Lots. But, According to P@L, Intel was the first spinoff, and also the first to follow TOS into exile. It seems the first three episodes were rehosted as of May 25, 2002, and the fourth was added on June 17, and the fifth and final was added on December 16. So that's something!
- TOS15 is "The Maiden," and I had it dated May 10, 2002, per the datestamp for the spin-off on Odd Lots and Acacia thanking P@L for hosting them pro tem in her author's note, which I read to mean until they get the mirror site Jay mentions up. Odd Lots is not the mirror site; they were going to have their own.
  - That's clearly wrong, though, since only the first 14 episodes of TOS were on Odd Lots as of Wayback capture date May 16, 2002. {= O
- TOS21 "The Dark Elf" is the one with a link to the Board in the author's notes... and was apparently published on December 27, 2002. Huh.
But, but, hS... If the Board wasn't founded on March 12, 2003, then the Fifth Anniversary Celebration and surrounding shenanigans were, uh, completely wrong.

Um.

BRB, my headcanon and entire worldview just broke. {X D

~Neshomeh

Ahoy there returnbie! =D /hands over some chocolate bark by S.M.F. on 2020-04-06 17:33:22 UTC Reply

I wasn't in the Discord much, but I check in on the regular Boards often. Glad to see you here!

And if you like Neal Shusterman (just recently finished The Toll myself!), you might like Robert J. Sawyer's WWW Trilogy! More info for them can be found here, though my first book from the trilogy was Watch.

OOO CHOCOLATE BARK by IRL Hand of Almalexia on 2020-04-07 17:59:44 UTC Reply

I love chocolate bark!

Also, The Toll gave me depression lmao, I'm definitely going to be checking out the WWW Trilogy just based on the comparison to Neal Shusterman.

Have you also read the Unwind books? One of my all-time favorite series but Scythe seems to be more popular

Greetings, returnbie! by Snowblaze on 2020-04-06 08:34:47 UTC Reply

Have a virtual slice of cake!

Thank for the cake by IRL Hand of Almalexia on 2020-04-07 18:00:32 UTC Reply

But is the cake a lie?

(Sorry, inner 2010 jumped out.)

I've never seen you, being quite new, but you seem great by Jean Yeap on 2020-04-06 07:38:07 UTC Reply

Don't worry if you suck at introducing yourself. You should see what I wrote for my introduction. :-)

I'm hoping you have an awesome time here! Here's a random cursed piece of jewellery.

Hey, thanks! by IRL Hand of Almalexia on 2020-04-06 07:43:22 UTC Reply

Oh, hey, cursed jewelry! Seeing as I myself am pretty cursed, I think it qualifies as a normal piece of jewelry. 😂

And yeah, even if you had seen me, it wouldn't have been under this name. I used to have a different account, way back in ye olden days, that I abandoned due to shame. Here's to a fresh start tho! ^-^