Subject: Thank you. :)
Author:
Posted on: 2021-02-14 19:30:25 UTC
I really did snatch a Sue nickname from an existing sporking (try searching for Das Mervin's sporkings of the Ariana Black series if you're interested), but the joke was begging to be made. I'm glad that you enjoyed the mission. :) Thanks for reading!
All right, so I had this mission beta'd by Zingenmir sometime in July last year, but I've had it buried in my Google Docs until now because of certain timeline issues in my writing. Basically I'd had a bunch of missions I'd planned to publish before this one, but... that's what my question is about.
Here's the mission. I forgot to add the continuum until Huinesoron pointed it out to me, but it's Lord of the Rings. It has mentions of BL2 and BL10 from the Discord blacklist, so... beware of that.
So, the thing is... I've looked over some of my old PPC missions from about two years ago, and boy, did I cringe. I guess I'm not alone with that, but I also don't feel very comfortable with my current writing. I feel like I'm just not funny enough for the PPC - I was rereading some classic missions like Ring Child that are genuinely laugh-out-loud hilarious, but I've never really noticed that kind of quality in my own writing. Now, I realize that this could be because I'm so familiar with my own punchlines they don't even register to me anymore after editing and re-editing the thing. But I really don't feel like I'm on the level of writing skill where I should be if I want to keep writing in this continuum (I know nobody here expects me to create a Nobel laureate PPC fic, but I'm very critical of my own stuff). So I'd like to ask for some in-depth feedback on what I could improve about this mission and future ones, especially in the comedy department. I mean, I'm not demanding feedback because I know we all have little time and fewer spoons, but... it would be a big help to me. I don't want to lose my joy in writing for the PPC because I love this community, but it's hard when I keep looking at my own writing and frowning. I'm also scrapping a bunch of planned missions because I used to focus way hard on the squicky fics most sane people wouldn't touch with a ten-foot spork, and that's just not fun to me anymore. I'm way hard to shock with bad writing, but I also don't want to go overboard with the squick because there's only so much graphic unpleasantness I can take before it starts to grate on my nerves as a writer and reader. So I guess I'm trying to start anew as a writer here, I'll just need a little advice on how to.
So... I hope y'all will enjoy this mission, and I would be grateful for any comments on my writing.
(Mirage disappears in a puff of Urple smoke)
And as someone who doesn't often laugh at PPC stuff, I can confidently say that you have got the humor right down. It's also nice to see agents taking the merciful route for once, and it plays nicely with the classic tone – still the same old snarky PPC, but kinder and gentler. I think you did a bang-up job on this!
First of all, I really enjoyed the classic flavour of this mission (which I read once people started mentioning LotR characters in their comments... might be worth naming the canon in the plug, so people can see if they know it). It was fun to see the good old 'here is a thing about LotR which is wrong and goofy'; it's been a long time since I've gotten that. (Partly because I so rarely read missions... :O)
So, humour. Humour in PPC missions can come from a range of places. Free-associating here:
Comments on the badfic. You have this down nicely. As someone said, the agent's aren't just saying "hey, that's wrong", but also using it as a teachable moment for the audience. You've done a good job of turning ambiguity ('hair the colour of the woods') into outright absurdity. I also liked things such as 'roll you down a hill', where you take a badfic turn of phrase and use it to your own ends.
Physical manifestations of badfic logic. You did this to an extent with the minis, but I think you didn't go much further. We never saw green-haired Elrond, for instance, or the fact that Airhead apparently takes her skirt off all the time (nobody mentioned trousers!), or much else (even Aragon doesn't seem to have taken Aragorn's place, just popped up unnoticed next to him). Showing us some of the badness would help break up the agents needing to tell us about it.
PPC tech and logic. Lots of this! From Ironic Overpower [BEEP] to the CAD, to the minis again and even "errr... she's not really that bad, maybe we should rethink the murder plan", you do this very well.
Agent interactions. This is always the trickiest one; if you let them stray too far from the subject at hand, you wind up with an interlude-as-mission, where the badfic is background to the agents' banter (or drama). You've played it very much on-topic, which is good for badfic snark (and mission length), but limits your opportunities to play around with the agents. It's a balancing act, and one that plays out differently every mission.
From all that, I feel like finding the humour - and having fun at it - is about that balancing act. Do I want to write my next mission as agent- or badfic-centred? Will the badfic work best as a subject for snark, or a bizarre manifestation? There's no right answers, just what feels best to you when writing.
This was a perfectly good mission; it slid quite hard to one end of most of the scales above, but that's fine! Some missions do (I'm writing one starring a mini and a pov, which wipes out the snark and tech possibilities completely), while others are more balanced. Just do what you enjoy. :)
hS
One of the things that makes me the happiest is to hear that my missions remind people of classic PPC writing. It's not like I'm actively trying to imitate the greats, but they've been my introduction to this continuity, and they influenced the way I write missions a lot. As for this one, I still feel like I missed a lot of notes I could have hit (including the comedy that I was so unhappy with), but hearing positive concrit for it has helped my insecurity a little. I'm definitely more partial to it than to my older, squick-filled writing (except for my third mission, where I think I did a better job with the characters than in this one), but I'll try harder next time. Either way, I do have a lot of fun writing missions, so the only thing I need to do is polish my writing until I can reread them later with a smile instead of a frown.
Thank you for reading! :)
Been a while since any PPC story got published! It's good to get to read another!
the mission
A nice, classic mission! I like that you used the snark not just as in-universe complaints, but to explain to the reader how the fic's errors didn't jive with Tolkien's Middle-earth, as well as details that actually worked against empowering women, rather than making the Sue seem more powerful. You also wrote Eldrond to be have very cute mannerisms, which was fun, and I always appreciate non-murder endings to Sue missions.
Oh, and this probably wasn't intentional, but I really loved the consonance you've made taking advantage of Legolas's name, especially in the sentence, "Meanwhile in the fic, Airhead’s mind-reading had already told her that Legolas was leaving, surprising the elf."
There's one line I'm not sure if I'm just picturing wrong in my head, or if it has an error: when "Melissa darted forward and tripped up the Sue with a foot behind her ankle . . ." If Areyin is running towards them at that point, wouldn't Melissa need her foot at the front of her ankle?
the interlude
I'm not really a fan of people/characters drinking, but I did like that the partners were supportive of Faelwen and worked to keep her safe and healthy. I was also very amused by the final scene, with the poor console trying desperately to do its job, but for once getting drowned out by an agent being prioritized by the narrative laws! Excellent!
the serious question
There's several things I want to say here, and they may not end up in the best order, because I don't know how to structure my answer. You asked for suggestions on how to improve the mission, and I didn't give any, largely because I would probably need to read through the original fic, and I don't really have the patience for that. The fact is, with a mission, so much of the humor is dependent on the original fic's material, that the humor can be somewhat out of our control. There's no precise guide on selecting what badfics will work as missions; some are going to work well, and some won't. But the end result doesn't reflect on you as an author; you only have the material you're given.
Obviously humor has always been a big part of the PPC, and it continues to be important. But every PPC author has had their own mind, and their own style, and yes, their own grasp on comedy. So every spin-off has a different tone, and different kinds of jokes, and different levels of emotional and physical seriousness, as well. What I like about yours is the close friendships you're developing between your initial agent pair, and their little found family of recruits. Your RC has a very warm, caring tone to it, and as an ace person for whom friendship is the deepest emotional connection I can have, I really enjoy and appreciate that!
Lastly, I want to say that you yourself are a very warm, caring person, and you have a very thoughtful and creative approach to the media you consume and create. I'm glad you're a part of the community! And that will remain true, regardless of whether you continue to publish missions, or never do so again. Thank you for being here, Mirage! : )
—doctorlit, a fan
I've gotta say, I'm really grateful to have been a part of this community for... two years already? Darn, time sure flies. For me the true essence of the PPC isn't just sporking badfic, but the care and dedication to writing and preserving this continuum, and the kind of community spirit I've never experienced anywhere else before. Your message really brightened up a very long and very tedious workday, so thank you for that! ^_^
And as for the writing itself, I'm definitely not going to stop publishing missions, I just need to figure out the direction I should go with my writing from now on. It's always a lot of fun writing for this community, especially with all the kind, supportive reviews and concrit people have left on my works so far. And I really appreciate the fact that you've left feedback on so many of my stories. It's a real joy to hear that you've enjoyed the things I write, especially the tone and feel I'm going for. Well-written close relationships and found families are something I've always aspired to in my works, PPC or non-PPC. As for the comedy... maybe time will bring a little development on that front too. Either way, I love PPC-ing, and I hope to keep doing it for a very long time. :)
(As for that line in the mission... I'll admit I could have used better wording, but the way I was picturing it was Melissa hooking a foot around and behind Areyin's ankle. The little details like this are one of the things I'll try to pay closer attention to in future missions.)
Bad enter button, bad!
I didn't mean to post this message-less the first time. Sorry.
But, I liked the mission and still do. Especially this line:
"The previous A/N said it’s pronounced Air-yin, so henceforth she shall be christened Airhead.”
-Kittyauthor, who is mad at mobile keyboards right now.
I really did snatch a Sue nickname from an existing sporking (try searching for Das Mervin's sporkings of the Ariana Black series if you're interested), but the joke was begging to be made. I'm glad that you enjoyed the mission. :) Thanks for reading!
If that's my funniest mission, then the credit belongs to Tungsten Monk, not me. She's the comic genius of the two of us. {= )
And if my other missions are funny, it's because I've worked really hard at it.
See, I'm not a natural at comedic writing. My brain doesn't come up with funny stuff on the fly. I recognize humor, so I can tell when a badfic is ripe for sporking, but I gotta study each bit and really think about how to draw out the inherent absurdity so it's clearly visible to others. The rest is pretty much just sarcasm and irony. As a result, I think my humor is drier and more cerebral (note: I don't mean smarter/better; more like less intuitive/accessible) than other people's.
But not being a natural and having a different style clearly hasn't stopped me from being a PPC writer. It shouldn't stop you or anyone else, either. It's just a matter of taking the tools you have and making them work for you. {= )
And I've enjoyed your writing and your other sporking so far, even with the squicky subject material. I think you've handled it well, such that it's not a glorification of squick for squick's sake (which has sometimes been an issue in the PPC's history). I said something to hS recently along the lines that, if we're a kinder, gentler PPC than we were in the past, then it makes sense for people's overly perfect personal fantasies to be less acceptable targets, and as a result, for us to take aim at more things that are objectively horrible. I don't think that's a bad thing.
Not to say I don't think we should spork Sues, or that you shouldn't change up your spin-off if it's not fun for you anymore the way it is. The PPC should always be fun. {= D
~Neshomeh
...if we're a kinder, gentler PPC than we were in the past, then it makes sense for people's overly perfect personal fantasies to be less acceptable targets, and as a result, for us to take aim at more things that are objectively horrible.
I don't think focussing on things which are objectively horrible is the way to go, because... they're objectively horrible! Everyone can see that squicky smut and ultra-gore are nasty; there's no value added from having a character standing there saying "yuck".
I think the space the PPC works best in is the things which are non-obviously horrible, or subtly wrong. If Legolas is doing the urple nasty with a Suvian, that's horrible; if the scene changes imply that Aragorn and Galadriel are having a chat in the same room, that's non-obviously horrible.
I like to think of "Rambling Band" at this point: it's not obvious that the Suvian must be playing terrible music, but by applying logic, J&A were able to realise that Led Zeppelin wouldn't actually work on the harp. They spend a good half-page of writing exploring the consequences of that; they don't spend any time at all on the horrible injuries Laurel sustains while jumping a van through a movie screen, because the badfic knows about them, and we all know too.
Which isn't to say squick can't contain those things: badly-written smut can be a whole heap of logistical mishaps! But that's while being obviously horrible, not because of it.
I emphatically do agree, of course, that the PPC should always be fun. ^_^
hS
For instance, "Immigrant Song" on duet harps is haunting and gorgeous, IMO. It's different, but does that mean it doesn't work? {= )
There's about a million harp covers of "Stairway to Heaven," too, as it turns out.
But, actually, I agree with pretty much everything else you said there. It doesn't work in any situation for the agents to just stand there and go "this is bad!", for starters. A mission at its best shows why it's bad or how it's absurd if you stop and think for a few seconds. The agents' emotional/visceral response and snark can be an important part of that, but only if you take it a step beyond the surface-level "ew!" or "wrong!" or whatever. That certainly goes for squicky fic as much as anything else. In that case, you also don't want to revel in the squick and reproduce all the nasty badfic quotes you can cram in, because yeah, that's obvious, and after a certain point it's redundant, and if that's all you do, it's not creative or fun to read. Trojie and Pads knew this, and they were really good at using the agents' responses to stuff to get what was happening across without quoting it verbatim, and being entertaining while they were at it.
Additionally, I think there's an opportunity to comment on the subtle social wrongness that might lead to the horrible attitudes that tend to show up in godawful smut and the like. There's a lot of horrible that society at large does not yet recognize as horrible, and I think we've cultivated a community that can speak to that better than most. As Mary Sues aren't feminist, so bad slash is often homophobic, and more.
So that's why I say have at it. But yeah, the stuff that gives a PPCer something to work with creatively and entertainingly is always going to be a better choice, regardless of subject material. {= )
~Neshomeh
And it's a relief to hear that I've been handling the squick acceptably. I definitely had a lot of fun coming up with my older stuff, I just feel like the time has come for me to make an effort to grow from it. Which, sadly, means that the mission you've been betaing for me is probably not going to see the light of day, or not anytime soon. At the very least I'll try to rewrite it when I have the time or the spoons, to chisel out the parts I feel aren't funny enough, or aren't dealing well enough with the horribleness. I meant to let you know that that particular project is going on a hiatus, but the writing bug bit me, so I've been fairly busy since the time I made this Board post. I'm currently working on a few other missions which I hope are a step in the right direction - I sure wonder what the Board will think of them.
I don't know, Mirage...I opened up the mission to remind myself what it was, and am now skimming, and I keep laughing aloud at bits. Things like "okay, so Elrond and his canonical kids have green hair, then?" and the concept of Elrond ruling all the Elves in Middle-earth with, apparently, no objections from the people who likely would object (including Elrond himself!) I'm familiar with that feeling of suddenly realizing that your older writing isn't quite your style anymore and trying to move forward without entirely being sure how to do it; in my case, I found my writing style had changed and I wanted to write new things rather than continue the old, but was struggling to come up with new ideas and sustain confidence in their quality. The solution has basically been...time and self-reflection and continuing to write this and that as I figured out where to go? And then the ongoing situation upended things a bit, including writing-wise, and I adopted a policy of "write anything that interests or amuses you even if it's very silly" because, well, I spent a good bit of March and a chunk of April barely managing to write anything at all (going into lockdown and having to suddenly figure out how to order everything online and generally just reshape most of how you do things will do that, as it turns out). At this point...I'm not entirely back to what I was doing pre-March 2020, in large part because the themes of my original fiction project of the time still don't quite appeal to me in the midst of all this, but I'm more in the stages of "let me finish up some of these things I began last year and share them, maybe" than "write whatever new idea shows up and amuses you". And...behold more self-reflection, I guess? Though the type I was talking about earlier was more to do with slowly analyzing how my writing style had changed and using that to try to start building new ideas. Anyway. I think the point of this was to say that I sympathize, and to share my version of it in case there's something helpful there? (With a little detour into "hm, where am I at in 2021, this is useful information for me"?) I don't know. It's early. Hopefully you got something from it.
A more specific comment, for fun:
Apparently he had met the Sue at an archery contest some decades ago, since she was as talented with a bow (of course) as any elf or god.
“Ah, yes, all those gods roaming the streets of Middle-earth,” Melissa said, and May chuckled.
I am quite likely repeating a beta comment, but hey, I suppose Maiar could potentially be considered gods? Demi-gods? Although, uh, I just can't see most of them taking an interest in archery. I mean, Gandalf and Saruman facing off in an archery contest would be hilarious, but I can't see it happening. Perhaps she's just bringing in the Valar--if I remember correctly, Tulkas and/or Nessa might have something to do with hunting/war that could include archery?
Anyway. Overall, good luck, Mirage :) It may be frustrating right now, but it's always good to grow as a writer (and, iirc, age-wise you're around a time when it tends to happen, so you're not alone. If anything, you're probably following in grand tradition!). I doubt your old writing is as bad as you might think (even if you've reached a point where it makes you cringe), and I'm sure you'll write great things in the future. Just keep at it! :)
~Z
PS: I gave the rest of the mission a quick (re)read too. I can kind of see what you mean (possibly down, in part, to beta comments I would make note but possibly didn't think of at the time?), but at the same time, I did keep laughing out loud. "Iniih - the sound a horse makes?" got me, for instance, and the writing quality itself is fine. Most of what I was tilting my head at was...pacing, a bit, and what feels like some missed opportunities for analysis/remarks about canon. Maybe there could be more description of the agents' general movements/interactions with their surroundings? Though that might just be a casualty of semi-skimming.
Anyway. I can see why you might now feel there's room for improvement, but you really aren't starting from nothing, especially with the comedy. Do some reflection, think about what you want to change/enhance (or what already has changed!) about the way you write, and I think you'll come out the other side stronger. Quite possibly you're already emerging. Either way, I think you'll be okay :)
PPS: Also, it's very much okay to scrap a bunch of stories! I've done it a number of times, including but not limited to an entire arc for Jacques (the concept got thoroughly reworked a few times and then made kind of obsolete; the current plan is to fold the characters and some pieces of the plot into what replaced it, I think) and just about my entire planned first set of ~5 missions back in 2013 :D I had a plan! It was going to use my permission piece characters and everything, and introduce others as I went! I had fics and a timeline and everything! And...then I think I went off and started writing a bunch of stuff for Dawn, or something like that, and RL took over my timing, and then I brought the Reader in earlier than planned, and, well, suffice it to say that there's a whole set of events planned for 2013 that will never be written. Although, now that I'm talking about it, I'm a bit curious to see if it could maybe work folded into an interlude, maybe fill in some more pieces for Brenda and Charlie (don't recognize them? That was my permission pair and I had plans, I tell you) and probably also Edgar and Agen----t and Dawn...hmm. We'll see. Not a priority, though, given I have other stuff I'm finishing/trying to finish. Anyway, tangent aside, scrapping missions happens, and can even work out for the better. If you're feeling guilty about it, or something, there's no need :)
It's very reassuring to hear that you did enjoy this mission, even if it could use some improvement. I'm personally not that happy with it myself (you're entirely right about the lack of analysis - I wasn't at the height of writing inspiration when I wrote this, and I didn't quite remember the fic itself enough to rewrite by the time I came around to posting it), but my insecurity about it has shrunk a little thanks to your feedback. The "that's the sound a horse makes" bit is one of my better jokes, I think. : D Thank you for the encouragement about my writing journey. Hopefully I'll be able to live up to my standards a little better in the future. And I can absolutely relate to the current events being difficult to adjust to at first. I wrote my favorite piece of my own PPC writing in quarantine, personally, but at first it really was a challenge to get used to the new situation. I wish you a lot of luck and inspiration in continuing with your writing, too. :)
Since I'm scrapping the mission this interlude was originally attached to, I figured I could post it on its own so it wouldn't get lost to time - I like it slightly better than most of my writing I've been complaining about. Cicada gave me feedback on it sometime last year and I took a look at it again before posting, so I figured we'd be good to go.
Warning for language, but it's SFW and SFB otherwise.
Enjoy! ^_^
Just here to say that I like what I read of this mission and the Interlude - so wherever you think you'll end up in your writing next, I can agree it's going to be a good choice!
I'm really glad that you liked these pieces - I'm slightly more partial to them than my older writing. And I suppose we'll see what the future brings.