More on descriptions (again: I have Opinions)

Subject: More on descriptions (again: I have Opinions)
Author: Thoth
Posted on: 2021-02-24 18:33:43 UTC

Sadly the beige, while decidedly unattractive, isn't the worst you can get. Disgustingly purple and baffling metaphors are even more confusing and drag readers out of the experience.

Oh, also words. Words are important. The things people say and why they say them are good tools in your toolchest, even when physical action is taking place. If you're going more... out there, figure out what your characters want from the experience as well, because that will shape how you write it (and no, 50 Shades, "I'm a damaged human being who is awful" is not the basis for anything safe, sane, or consensual). People don't do more extreme acts or the like Just Because™. Or, well, they might, but there's a reason they chose to do the thing they're doing, and why that thing appeals to them.

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[NSFW] New cringy euphemism for male peeny-weeny, I guess by Ki no Shirayuki on 2021-02-20 03:18:50 UTC Writing Badfic report Reply

Family jewel and lil' (character name), I kid you not. The sex scene is not a joke. See these godforsaken euphemisms in action (link leads to MST).

Honestly, neither of those is worse than "peeny-weeny". (nm) by Scapegrace on 2021-02-22 23:45:00 UTC Reply

Does this mean we need to come up with new euphemisms? by Huinesoron on 2021-02-23 08:56:51 UTC Reply

Only, because "new" was the problem here, they need to sound really old.

How about "starboard"? In its original sense, it means "steering board" - ie, rudder. It's a word nobody uses as a concrete noun any more, so using it that way will immediately make you look old-fashioned. Plus, it lends itself to some great "port and starboard" gags.

Failing that, how about animals? I've got a NaNo which jokes about how incredibly crude the name of Mount Wolf is, because "wolf" is just such a euphemism. Lots of possibilities for pouncing, leaping, howling at the moon...

The key, of course, is to make them so oblique that nobody would understand what they meant without some heavy-duty context. Make it sound like it could have gotten through Victorian prudery by being misinterpreted as a charming folk-tale - "The Sailor Comes Home" or "The Wolf in his Den". Imagine a bunch of Yorkshire farmers sitting around guffawing about the utter filth being printed in the Good Child's Book of Pretty Fairies. That's how you find the really good euphemisms.

(Internet points to anyone who writes one of those charming folk-tales. ^_~ And possibly a quick illustration of just how charmingly innocent it all is.)

hS

Thing is, I'm pretty sure literally everything has been done before. by Neshomeh on 2021-02-23 15:24:25 UTC Reply

I'd be surprised if it's not a corollary of Rule 34: If it exists, it has been used as a sexual euphemism/metaphor. Somehow.

But some things have been done more than others, of course. And most of them are anything but erotic. There's such a narrow band of words that are only guaranteed to be non-sexy to some people rather than almost everyone. {= P

Trust me. I've been reading Weepingcock lately, trying to track down those nigh-mythical dubious lubes. I've seen things. Actual Victorian smut, for one. It's hilariously awful. ^_^

~Neshomeh used to be so innocent, once upon a time...

(Reply + question about Board names and fic archives) by Huinesoron on 2021-02-23 15:39:48 UTC Reply

I had a friend once who said that "[verb]ing the [animal]" can /always/ be a euphemism, and that's not wrong. (I believe the example was 'waxing the dolphin'.) I guess the real trick is finding the ones that sound sexy... except that I get the impression the more smut you read, the less /anything/ sounds sexy.

Which really indicates that blow-by-blow (-_-) physical descriptions aren't the best way to write it? Maybe? I dunno, but the Shipfest is coming up, so soon there will be many examples...

SPEAKING OF the Shipfest, I've been archiving (it's a lot easier than Badfic Game archiving), and I've run into a problem: people keep changing their names.

For the Badfic Game user pages, which have names hidden in the code, I'm happy to change them. For shipfics, I'm happy to leave them. That means I need to leave them in the actual ship descriptions, too. Fine.

But what about shipfic authors? On the one hand, some people have deep reasons for changing their usernames, plus you want to be able to see what someone you know now has written. On the other hand, that route leads to Neshomeh and Phobos co-writing stories about Neshomeh and Barid, which causes a bit of a disconnect.

I think the most elegant solution is to attribute to 'Phobos (Barid)'? Even if it is a bit clutter-y. Of course, then I realise I don't necessarily remember every name-change... :-/

hS

Coincidentally, speaking of dolphins... (post is SFW; includes a link that isn't) by Neshomeh on 2021-02-24 23:14:14 UTC Reply

I have just come across this quote: "She put a hand to his cheek. The globe was smoother than dolphin skin. It muted her body heat."

It would appear to be an actual line from an actual fic, as reported here (again, NSFW). I don't know what sort of cheek is meant.

Either way, I guess waxing the dolphin must make it really smooth! {X D

~Neshomeh

What about hedgehogs? :D (nm) by Midnight on 2021-02-24 23:45:41 UTC Reply

--with a girAFFE / if you stand on a stool / but the HEDGEhog can-- (nm) by Huinesoron on 2021-02-25 09:50:09 UTC Reply

Never be b*ggered at all! (nm) by Midnight on 2021-02-25 16:36:59 UTC Reply

Characters first. by Neshomeh on 2021-02-23 16:19:52 UTC Reply

As far as I can tell, the way to write a sex scene well is the same way you write anything well, which means it should arise (shush) naturally from the events of the story and the personalities of the characters. The audience should believe this would actually happen before it does, and then what you can get away with vocab-wise depends on whether the POV character(s) would actually think in the terms you use. For instance, you shouldn't believe for one second that Gall would say anything so coy as "member" or "manhood" or whatever. She's gonna use the four-letter words. Derik, on the other hand, would use more polite terms, and might even verge on the flowery at times, because that's how he normally talks. If* I wrote a scene between them, it would look very different depending on whose POV I used... but it would (hopefully) work either way.

But then, I'm talking about stories where the goal is telling a good story that happens to contain sex, not making something expressly for people to get off to. Those are different animals, and I cannot speak to the latter. /shrug/

Re. the archive question: It seems like the sort of thing to take on a case by case basis. In our case, I'd say change the name to Phobos across the board, but put an editorial comment somewhere to the effect that it was Barid until X year? It's more important to signify the correct person than to adhere to the original text, IMO.

~Neshomeh

* I have actually done this. I'm just not sure I'm going to publish it. >.> Not till the spinoff gets to that point, anyway.

Nesh is, naturally, correct by Thoth on 2021-02-23 23:44:28 UTC Reply

Characterization and good character writing is the key to good smut. This is why I admire anyone who can write a really, really good PWP-style story. It's a whole other level of difficult. We'll tolerate a lot more mediocrity if it's believably about characters we know than if it's about some random jerks who we've never met. Effectively, the author has to create two or more believable characters and a believable relationship dynamic between them in the smallest amount of space possible. That's really, really hard (can it).

On the other end of things, a really good smut scene can create an amazing climax to a strong romantic buildup. This is easier and harder to pull off, as you have more of a framework to build on but also increased expectations. Readers will tolerate more mediocrity from you, but you'll need to deliver more to be considered great.

Regardless of what you're writing, the best smut is about getting into characters' heads. The act itself matters less than the emotional weight and the feelings and the thoughts, because that's what we, as authors, can deliver best. We're not cinematographers who can provide the most tasteful and excellent angles and the most inviting shots. They get the visuals, we get the inner voice. Bogging down a work with needless descriptions can result in writing that goes bad, fast.

So my general advice has always been to focus on only the most significant actions, the emphasize the emotional and mental aspects, and to keep the metaphors tasteful and minimal. There are a lot of truly horrible metaphors that we've all definitely seen. It's also best to avoid cliche, especially when cliche does not make sense: If a kiss bruises your lips, you're doing it wrong.

You two... by Huinesoron on 2021-02-24 09:15:55 UTC Reply

... are getting a special fic if you both sign up for the Shipfest. >:D

hS

Ooooh, are we gonna flout the kinkajou? ^_~ by Neshomeh on 2021-02-24 15:14:39 UTC Reply

It's a small rainforest mammal, if you're wondering. It just happens to have an especially funny name in this context. ^_^

Also, agreeing with Thoth: the thoughts and feelings of the characters will always be more interesting to read about than "[Character] [verb]ed [Other Character]'s [adjective] [body part]" several dozen times. There is nothing sexier than genuine attraction and enthusiastic consent.

~Neshomeh

By pure coincidence, a kinkajou was licking my forehead last night. by doctorlit on 2021-02-25 11:20:49 UTC Reply

Apparently sweat was more appetizing than the piece of banana I was trying to hand him. Oh well . . .

— doctorlit has his own personal Jessie and James
More on descriptions (again: I have Opinions) by Thoth on 2021-02-24 18:33:43 UTC Reply

Sadly the beige, while decidedly unattractive, isn't the worst you can get. Disgustingly purple and baffling metaphors are even more confusing and drag readers out of the experience.

Oh, also words. Words are important. The things people say and why they say them are good tools in your toolchest, even when physical action is taking place. If you're going more... out there, figure out what your characters want from the experience as well, because that will shape how you write it (and no, 50 Shades, "I'm a damaged human being who is awful" is not the basis for anything safe, sane, or consensual). People don't do more extreme acts or the like Just Because™. Or, well, they might, but there's a reason they chose to do the thing they're doing, and why that thing appeals to them.

When is the shipfest and how do you sign up for it? (nm) by Midnight on 2021-02-24 12:14:59 UTC Reply

Generally early March. by Huinesoron on 2021-02-24 13:42:00 UTC Reply

What's happened the last few years is that someone posts a thread calling for signups (opt-ins, explicit opt-outs, conditions, and whatever description people want to offer) and suggested 'ships (the more the merrier!), and then about a week later someone - often the same person, sometimes not - announces the actual game.

Given that I've been mucking about with Shipfests past, I may well launch it myself on March 1st - Monday, if I'm reading the calendar right.

(Of course, if there's someone you're fairly sure is going to opt in, there's nothing to stop you pre-writing the fic, as long as you're aware you might have to drop it if they decide to stay out... ^_~)

hS

Thanks! by Midnight on 2021-02-24 15:42:57 UTC Edited Reply

I’ll definitely be signing up. What can I say, I’m a chronic shipper myself, so I’ll be quite interested if anyone chooses to ship me :).

[NSFW] Bruhh I think I found an Among Us badfic by Ki no Shirayuki on 2021-02-22 03:59:21 UTC Edited Reply

In which the impostor protagonist is groped and… uhh… in the very first chapter, and bad slash ensues repeatedly. Other than that, it's just all-around unfunny, boring and unsexy, with bland narration and bad dialogues. Here's a sample (NSFW):
Black continued to move making me 10x more sensitive. My moans were unbelievably hot, I couldn't believe my voice was capable of this. As I had my head against the wall Black took the advantage and decided to give me a hickey, it surprisingly felt good and gave me more than 5.
Fic here.
Those... aren't very new. by Huinesoron on 2021-02-20 09:15:59 UTC Reply

The Oxford English Dictionary cites "family jewels" as a euphemism back to the 1920 Historical Dictionary of American Slang. And "little [name]" as a nickname (which I see is how it's introduced) is... like... probably the most common form of nickname for it used in fiction?

Of all the hooks for plugging your MST, this was a very strange one to pick. O.o

hS

Well, I just discovered the original fic was deleted/unpublished by Ki no Shirayuki on 2021-02-20 09:44:53 UTC Edited Reply

I'd use the original link if it was available, but all I have now is my own MST. 'Sides, even if it ain't new, unironically using them is still very much cringy, especially if it doesn't fit the setting and culture.