Subject: Thanks again, I understand this better now.
Author: Hieronymus Graubart
Posted on: 2013-08-15 13:10:00 UTC

Trying to retranslate from German, last paragraph of first chapter of Quenta Silmarillion:

... For the elves do not die, as long as the world does not die, unless they are slain or pine away in sorrow (by these two forms of apparent death they are consumed); ... and to perish they gather in Mandos’ Halls in Valinor, from where, when time comes, they may return.
It is also said (paraphrasing) that humans will play along in the Second Music of the Ainur, but even the Valar do not know what Ilúvatar intends to do with the elves after the world’s end.

So, “when time comes” doesn’t refer to the world’s end, and “they may return” means actually “return to live in Aman”, not a vague possibility that, when the world ends, everything including the elves may return to wherever the whole creation came from?

Of course the German text may be completely wrong, because the attempt to be poetic limits the choice of words and the translator couldn’t know more than had been published at the time. (I have my experience there. German Harry Potter never mentions chivalry as an important Gryffindor trait, apparently because it didn’t fit into the German Sorting Hat’s songs. And it confuses the readers by using the same German word for “robes” and for “cloak”, which becomes hilarious when Mr. Weasley pulls another robescloak over his cloakrobes.)

In chapter six of Quenta Silmarillion, Miriel said that she would never bear a child again, because all her strength had gone into Feanor, and that she was tired. While Miriel apparently slept in the gardens of Lórien, the spirit left her body and went silently to the Halls of Mandos. No promise was made on page, and it seems that nobody except herself even expected her to die. When Finwe married Indis on the next page, Feanor didn’t like this, but Miriel’s spirit still existing in Mandos’ Halls didn’t seem to be a problem.

When the dying Finrod spoke to Beren, he said something like “Much time will pass until I am seen again by the Noldor, and it may be that we both do not meet again in death or life, for our races’ destinies are different. Farewell!” So he may expect to return to Aman, if not Middle-earth, or he may refer to the unknown plans Ilúvatar may have for the elves after the world's end. (Finrod apparently doesn’t believe that it is impossible to meet a human “in death”, is this why you called him “a funny one”?)

Ah, here it is, on the next but one page (trying my translational skills again):
Felagunds corpse they buried on the highest hill of his island, now pure again; and the green grave, where rests Finrod, Finarfin’s son, fairest of the elven princes, stayed untouched, until the land was turned and broken und sunk into crushing seas. But Finrod strolls with Finarfin, his father, under the trees of Endamar.
It is such a casual reference. Obviously I never took this serious, or I thought it meant that Finrod lived on in his father’s memory and could not be forgotten, even if everybody who knew him in Middle-earth should die.

So my confidence is restored. I do remember the canon I know. And Three-Book-Tolkienverse worked quite well for me, until I found the PPC, where agents shout “Sex is marriage” and “Elves aren’t abusive” and “There is no forced marriage in Midle-earth”, which all sounds quite plausible based on general characterizations, but was never really said in the books I read. And there seems to be some counter-evidence that needs further explanation.

Eol the dark elf is clearly an exception, and again the German text may be completely wrong, but to me, Aredhel’s fate sounds much like a politely concealed marriage-by-rape, so forced marriage is not unheard of (although this is not what is generally meant by the term). Thingol would never force his daughter to marry a man who only suits him for political or economical reasons, but what he did comes uncomfortably close to this. And locking her up should not be called abusive because it was only done to prevent her from being killed in an attempt to help Beren?

Obviously the Silmarillion is not the last word on all this. So you see now why I don’t dare to call myself a fan in the PPC? I deliberately ignored half of the canon by not reading every book, and what I believe to know is actually the translator’s canon, not Tolkien’s.

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