Alas, I don't know this canon.

Subject: Alas, I don't know this canon.
Author: Neshomeh
Posted on: 2021-10-12 04:40:59 UTC

And from what I've seen, I don't think it's generally well known in this group.

It's fine and even good to write missions for a canon that isn't as big as others, but do bear the knowledge level of your intended audience in mind when you decide what information to include about the setting. It rarely hurts to assume at least some of your potential readers don't know the canon in minute detail, even the more popular ones. That's one reason agent pairs typically vary in their experience and/or interests, so there's always one character who legitimately needs their partner to point things out because they don't know the canon as well, or are focused on different aspects of it.

There are other ways besides dialogue to slip information in, though: a brief character description here and a judicious bit of exposition there, just as though you were writing an original work, can go a long way. Your formless narrator can be helpful here, since they can just straight-up tell the audience anything it would be difficult to work in organically. As with all forms of exposition, I would use this sparingly, but still, it's an extra tool in your toolbox. {= )

My point about the image header is a similar one: it is never a mistake to assume your readers have not read the badfic. Part of the art of mission-writing is to transform the source fic into a mission that stands up as a story on its own. Any context necessary to understand what's happening in your story, such as how a particular device was (mis)used at a particular time, should be included in your story.

TL;DR: In my opinion, the mission would benefit from having at least some of the information from your post worked into it.

And hey, the more interesting you make the canon sound in your missions, and the more you show us why your agents (and you) are passionate about the world and the characters, the greater the chances that someone will decide to learn more about it! ... It won't be me, because I'm not much of a gamer, but it could be someone! The fact that both of your agents are fans is a big asset here. Lean in to the canon love and let us see what you see in it through your writing. {= )

~Neshomeh

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Permission Request, take 3 by Ki no Shirayuki on 2021-09-30 16:33:36 UTC Permission request Reply

Now with totally reworked agent personalities and background, changed name for one agent and three all new writing samples. Much thanks to my friend [name redacted] – who kindly requested that no links to her social accounts are included – for betaing, and here's the first fic I'd like to spork (bad SPaG, giant Sue, insulting portrayal of canons, facepalm-inducingly stupid plot).

Bravo! Have a celebratory home made blueberry pie! :) (nm) by ClaireBook1 on 2021-10-04 23:38:33 UTC Reply
This is much better! (Permission Conditionally Granted) by Neshomeh on 2021-10-02 19:56:37 UTC Edited Reply
I have but two moderate concerns and one minor one:
1. These characters don't read as real-world humans to me, especially with Kaguya's tendency toward comedic misfortune. Switch their continuum of origin from World One to, e.g., the Big Eyes Small Mouth RPG system, though, and it's all perfectly fine. BESM even has the master-servant dynamic as a major feature of the game, IIRC. Note that this does not free said dynamic from being extremely cringey if not handled with due care and sensitivity.
  That said, I like the relationship between your characters as it appears here. The fact that Momoka chooses to work for the family out of a sense of obligation means she has agency in the decision, and it's not an unfamiliar trope to me. The fact that she shares interests with Kaguya as well as finding him attractive feels like a basis for a reasonably well-rounded relationship. (I wonder if he might have to learn not to take her for granted at some point, though, if she decides her obligation is fulfilled since she's not living with the family anymore, but supporting herself as an agent just like he is, and simply wants to be his friend... But I digress!)
2. I worried that the SO came across a bit harsh, insisting that the agents take a punishment for something outside either of their control (more or less). The actual "punishment" seems like a good, pragmatic decision with the added benefit of comedy potential, though, so that's fine. If it was a deliberate attempt to set up a juxtaposition between expectations and reality, it wasn't clear, but definitely keep working that energy. If it wasn't deliberate, still keep that energy, but keep working on getting familiar with how the SO and other Flowers have been written by others.
3. There are some SPaG issues scattered throughout the document, especially around punctuation with quotation marks. None of the mistakes are terrible, and this is a skill you (and your beta friend) will keep improving with practice, so I'm not too worried about it.
You are clearly very motivated and have put some effort into this, which is great. I still feel a little uncertain about how well you understand the PPC setting/mindset, but I don't want to discourage you—so, unless someone else has strong objections, I think I want to take a page out of hS's book here and say Permission Conditionally Granted. Go ahead and write your first mission, and let's see how that goes. I can't promise I'll be able to read it right away when the time comes, but I will try. {= )

~Neshomeh, borrowing company time for PG-ing.

(ETA: Noting the conditional status of this Permission in the subject line, because I felt some of you were cheering a bit too much to have actually read this post.)

Yay! Thanks! by Ki no Shirayuki on 2021-10-03 01:27:29 UTC Edited Reply

P.S: Would it be okay if I change the continuum to "world 1.2" (yet another copy of real world but stuff like slapstick accidents happen)?

Congrats on the Permission! by Lily Winterwood on 2021-10-10 05:29:12 UTC Reply

Use your powers wisely!!

Thanks, but by Ki no Shirayuki on 2021-10-10 06:04:00 UTC Reply

Final verdict from Nessie is still pending 😅

*throws confetti* by OrangeFox on 2021-10-05 02:29:07 UTC Reply

Hey, good on ya! 'Grats on getting the Persimmon!

Wait now, by Ki no Shirayuki on 2021-10-05 07:03:42 UTC Edited Reply

I still have one more test. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Permission wooo! by Cicada on 2021-10-04 22:54:51 UTC Reply

I'm excited to see what you end up doing!
Yep! by Neshomeh on 2021-10-03 04:26:07 UTC Reply

There must be countless Generic Worlds that are basically "World One but X weird thing is real."

... Random late-night thought: I wonder if Generic Worlds just kinda float around out there in meta-space, lying fallow, waiting to be seeded by a story. Hmm...

~Neshomeh had BESM confused with Maid, anyway.

Distinguished boarders and permission givers, I present to you my sample mission by Ki no Shirayuki on 2021-10-05 15:35:51 UTC Edited Reply

Watch as the fic's awful punctuation get our good agents stuck in zero-gravity for most of the mission. I'm aware Kaguya hasn't gotten into much "angry mode" hijinks yet, but since this is the first mission, I decided to keep it light for now and turn up the wacky stuff later, for missions into fics with better punctuation.

P.S: The agents sleep in different rooms… if they do get any sleep at all.

Okay, here we go! by Neshomeh on 2021-10-11 18:27:36 UTC Reply

Some thoughts as I read:

Oh, that opening line is great! Could be simplified for easier reading, but very good effect.

I appreciate the ridiculousness of Kaguya's "angry mode." I bet it's fun coming up with the silly things that happen around him. ^_^

Hm, charging for an image as a chapter header (as I read it) seems harsh. I think that's an appropriate place to have a picture. I guess the images are used in place of description later in the story, but in this first instance it isn't clear that's happening.

Urg, all those extra spaces around the punctuation marks in the fic's text. That is not a thing in English orthography. >.< The narration isn't suffering from run-on sentences, though; as you say later, all the short clauses and the repetition of words actually make it pretty choppy. Perhaps you meant "rambling narration"? Similar concept, easily confused.

I agree with hS's critique of the floating scene. As readers, we naturally trace lines of cause and effect from one sentence to the next, one paragraph to the next, so the description of the agents floating followed by Kaguya observing the extra spaces leads us to believe that he's remarking on it because he's realized that's why they are floating. That's why it's confusing when your narrator then tells us neither agent understands what's going on. (Also, I don't know why Kaguya is yelling at Momoka, since she didn't even say anything—and he must be yelling at her, because there's no one else he ought to be talking to.)

I don't blame the formless narrator for not wanting to describe the two characters turned into rooms. Oh dear. {X D

"as his eyes were glued on the Words" - You know, you're going to have to be careful using figurative language around Kaguya. I have no reason other than the thin shreds of my own sanity not to think his eyeballs are somehow literally stuck to the Words right now. Even though the Words don't even have a physical form (unless the agents brought a print-out, which I don't think they did).

I tried to Google monaka to figure out a) what it is, and b) why a dessert would have anything to do with divine retribution (per Momoka's interpretation of Kaguya's ranting). Instead I found out it's also the name of a Dragon Ball Super character. I was trying not to complain about using unfamiliar non-English words without explaining them, but I am now more confused than when I started.

"MUSCULAR MALES NAKED !" made me laugh. Can't fault Momoka's reaction, either. {= )

"lethargically raged" - Is this a badfic quote you forgot to color-code? Either way, I'd recommend expanding on exactly how the bad descriptions manifest in the characters' activities. What does "lethargic rage" look like in action?

Typo: "was lead by Sue-poster" should be "was led by Sue-poster."

"putting a non-sword on the team"; "turning the two naginata into walking posters" - Hold up, are "sword" and "naginata" terms for something besides literal swords in this world? It would help for that to be explained early on, and possibly for those terms to be set off by capital letters. When the Sue was described as going to "live with the sword" at the beginning, I thought it was just weird writing meaning she was going to get a magical and/or speshul weapon she'd have to learn about.

Does "BGM" stand for background music? If so, it's redundant to say Momoka thought she could hear it playing "in the background."

They just crumple the Sue-poster up? Ah, poetic justice for failure to use written descriptions. I love it. ^_^

"One portal cracked open, two agents out of the badfic for good." - There's a verb or something missing here. Perhaps "One portal cracked open; two agents [went out of / left] the badfic for good"? Note also that you should use a semicolon, not a comma, if you want to join two independent clauses like this. You could also use the conjunction "and" instead of a semicolon.

You told hS that Momoka is not bothered by Kaguya teasing her about struggling as a chibi, but you also describe that "She puffed her cheeks out in brief annoyance," which shows us she is bothered. Remember, the reader naturally draws connections between one line and the next like this. If you want us to see that it doesn't bother her, show us that she responds with a smile, or rolls her eyes, or something like that instead.

And that's the mission! Overall, it was fun. I like Kaguya's oblivious goofiness and Momoka's quiet competence, and I look forward to the moment Kaguya realizes how much of a dork he actually is. I understand that Momoka sees him through rose-tinted glasses, but I beg the formless narrator to remember that the fact that he can speak a language well and look cool at the climax does not negate the fact that he was ridiculous the whole rest of the time. This is not a bad thing! It's funny for a guy like that to take himself too seriously as long as he gets called out on it one way or another. {= )

I made some notes about punctuation and quotation marks, but there weren't that many mistakes, and this post is long enough already, so I'll put them in a separate post.

My critiques are mostly minor, technical ones that will absolutely improve with practice. Therefore, I agree with hS, and I hereby declare Permission Granted! Congratulations!

~Neshomeh

About the "swords" thing by Ki no Shirayuki on 2021-10-12 01:11:13 UTC Edited Reply

This continuum is about personified Japanese swords (that either actually existed in history or are attested in historical documents). Also, yari and naginata (two kinds of polearms) are considered nihontō as their blades are forged exactly like sword blades and can even be converted into swords, which is why they're included in this canon.

About the image as header: the saniwa image used there is exclusive to an adaptation (this character is a non-entity player character in the game), and I also see this as hand-holding the audience like all other instances of image use in the fic's body. The reader of a non-visual medium can imagine what the characters look like themself.

Thanks for the permission! I'll get started on agent profiles shortly.

Alas, I don't know this canon. by Neshomeh on 2021-10-12 04:40:59 UTC Reply

And from what I've seen, I don't think it's generally well known in this group.

It's fine and even good to write missions for a canon that isn't as big as others, but do bear the knowledge level of your intended audience in mind when you decide what information to include about the setting. It rarely hurts to assume at least some of your potential readers don't know the canon in minute detail, even the more popular ones. That's one reason agent pairs typically vary in their experience and/or interests, so there's always one character who legitimately needs their partner to point things out because they don't know the canon as well, or are focused on different aspects of it.

There are other ways besides dialogue to slip information in, though: a brief character description here and a judicious bit of exposition there, just as though you were writing an original work, can go a long way. Your formless narrator can be helpful here, since they can just straight-up tell the audience anything it would be difficult to work in organically. As with all forms of exposition, I would use this sparingly, but still, it's an extra tool in your toolbox. {= )

My point about the image header is a similar one: it is never a mistake to assume your readers have not read the badfic. Part of the art of mission-writing is to transform the source fic into a mission that stands up as a story on its own. Any context necessary to understand what's happening in your story, such as how a particular device was (mis)used at a particular time, should be included in your story.

TL;DR: In my opinion, the mission would benefit from having at least some of the information from your post worked into it.

And hey, the more interesting you make the canon sound in your missions, and the more you show us why your agents (and you) are passionate about the world and the characters, the greater the chances that someone will decide to learn more about it! ... It won't be me, because I'm not much of a gamer, but it could be someone! The fact that both of your agents are fans is a big asset here. Lean in to the canon love and let us see what you see in it through your writing. {= )

~Neshomeh

Thanks! by Ki no Shirayuki on 2021-10-12 05:32:11 UTC Reply

I'll keep your advice in mind for future writing 😉

On the 'cracked open' line: by Huinesoron on 2021-10-11 18:51:09 UTC Reply

Not sure of the terminology, but that could be not a past tense verb, but... the other thing. As a synonym for "One portal created, two agents out of the badfic."

hS

Belated note: on romanization by Ki no Shirayuki on 2021-10-10 06:09:25 UTC Reply

I romanize Japanese names a bit differently from most other fans of Japanese works: I actually use the macron in rendering long vowels (Kashū, Kōsetsu). Thus, my spelling of the characters' names are different from the fic's, but since the one seen in the fic is still considered accepted romanization, it doesn't create minis.
Enjoyed the first mission! by Cicada on 2021-10-09 02:00:15 UTC Reply

The omniscient narrator works well for comedy. Do you read anything that uses that? It seemed like an inspiration sort of thing. I look forward to getting to know your characters better. I'm a bit confused at the "young master" concept and what exactly that entails in the context of their relationship? "Angry mode" is also a bit awkward as a description. Overall, this was a fun mission to read. And I also found it hilarious that the Sue started using random Demon Slayer moves. Unannounced crossovers, such a delight.

On the relationship of the agents by Ki no Shirayuki on 2021-10-09 03:11:00 UTC Reply

Kaguya is the son of a rich family, and Momoka is his maid. This as well as the former's operating in two "modes" are elaborated on further in the profiles in the mission request.

Go go gadget commentary! by Huinesoron on 2021-10-06 10:33:03 UTC Reply
I'm going into this cold, without having read your character profiles. I'm also not offering any sort of official opinion - just comments as I read. :)
- Omigosh it's only 8 pages. - Seriously, I'm growing to love short missions more and more. (And I say this as someone whose missions tend to balloon out of all control on a regular basis.)
- I quite like the formless narrator. It's a fun device.
- "... Kaguya was just done remarking how cute Momoka was when she blushed at his poetry reciting when the [BEEEEEEP] went off and armageddon broke loose." That's a very long clause; the two 'whens' jarred me out of it. I think the sentence could probably do with breaking up - in fact, you could break the paragraph as well!
In the two-room RC [...] Kaguya was remarking on how cute Momoka was when she blushed at his poetry reciting, when--

[BEEEEEEEEP!]

Armageddon broke loose. [...]

Something like that. Big block paragraphs tend to make people's eyes glaze over, so breaking them up can help.
- The last paragraph before the [Ch. 1] header contains another rather run-on-y sentence (the one that jumps from the crash dummy to portal shenanigans). I think you're trying to carry the reader breathlessly along, but I don't think it's quite worked. Not really sure why. :) In general, use long sentences only when they're for stylistic reasons, not because you need to fit more in.
- Linguistic coincidence: "ohayo" looks like it sounds like a childish English greeting: "Oh, hayyo!"
- You seem a bit dubious on whether the agents know why they're floating. Kaguya spits "Read the Words, look at the spacing" at Momoka, which implies he a) understands, b) recognises that she doesn't understand, and c) thinks she should. But then the narrator tells us they don't understand.
- Please don't have your agents yell at the author. Fanfic writers are deluged with flames telling them to stop writing, and the PPC works very hard not to contribute to that. (Similarly, don't describe it as "taking someone's fanart as a design for your character" - make it "yourself", and make it clear that it's the character who's being charged. As written, Momoka is charging the author.)
- Nonsense asphalt roast chicken to you too. ^_~
- I continue to enjoy the formless narrator. The structure you have, where you show us the lowest point in advance, then lead us to it and help us recover from it, is really good.
- There's something very amusing about Momoka thinking of herself as the inexperienced one, but doing all the work while her partner just spins and rambles.
- Problems with run-ons: at "two tea man", there's no way of telling whether it's Momoka or Uguisumaru and Mikazuki who's giggling. Could absolutely go either way.
- The start of Ch 5 is a good use of a blocky paragraph: you want to be hitting us with a string of horrors. Kaguya's parenthetical asides help break it up just enough. Well done. :)
- I like the way you stuck with the posters thing, and used it in the assassination. Working a running joke into the narrative like that is good.
- Overall, the mission feels like it's the story of Momoka Coping - with having to do everything herself, with her partner being clearly unstable, with her own feelings of inadequacy, and with her expectation that anything that goes wrong is going to be seen as her fault. (This is borne out in the ending, where Kaguya manages to turn "I literally did nothing except yell and spin" into "you struggled a lot", verbally diminishing Momoka's achievement.) I think that's what you were going for, but be aware that it means Kaguya isn't overly likable at the moment.
hS

(PS: I said no official opinion, and I stand by that, but for my tuppenceworth, this is plenty good enough to be going on with. ~hS)

Thanks for the feedback, by Ki no Shirayuki on 2021-10-06 12:12:42 UTC Edited Reply

I've made the necessary edits, and I plan to develop Kaguya's character in later missions, but I also tried to make him not come off as useless even as he is now (better at English, pressing most of the charges). The agents indeed don't know why they levitate; Kaguya sees the spaces, but he doesn't make the connection. Finally, the "struggled a lot" comment is meant to be his being playful and teasing, which Momo-chan is not bothered by.