The plural of Vala is Valar.

Subject: The plural of Vala is Valar.
Author: Huinesoron
Posted on: 2012-06-03 21:12:00 UTC

'Valars' is probably a Star Trek race. :P

One thing you forgot to mention - which I think had Ellipsis Flood confused - is that Tolkien treated the Elder Days as the distant history (6000 years or so) of Earth - so Hobbits still exist today (but are seldom seen by the Big Folk - prologue to LotR), etc etc. So yes, in that setting, various characters could well be wandering around. Alatar and Pallando, Maglor, Daeron, possibly even Celeborn.

But not Sauron. He's dead permanently. Melkor might be in, but I'd rather see him influencing others from the Void - and there's nothing preventing a Dragon or Balrog (or other lesser Ainu) throwing his ear in. (One of my fanfics mentions in passing the Dragon War in the northern ice which ended the Fourth Age. I like it. ;))

I like the idea of a training/combat split - in fact you could use it in any setting. You star as The Hero, who goes and learns vital skills, then goes into battle - maybe as a solo character, maybe as leader of an RTS army (my preferred option). I can see it working for a Tolkienverse setting, too. Wrap the whole thing up as a quest from Ulmo (he does that - see Tuor), and go get some magicky skills.

Alternately, and more generically, follow the Percy Jackson route and use ancient mythology. Same style, but instead of hunting Maglor, you're after the minor gods and immortal heroes of Greece/Egypt/Babylon/Scandinavia/China/all of them at once. In fact, make those possible civilisation start points - and you can face down heroes from /other/ civs. There's your individual-battle angle. Tolkienverse just gives a straight good/evil split - although you could, to mix things up, be a depowered Maia (a la Vemi) who can eventually level up into full battle-form (Balrog, for the Evil side).

(And game ideas don't have to be possible for them to be fun to think about. Hey, this would work as pen-and-paper, almost...)

hS

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Ideas for a game by darklordaakmal on 2012-06-03 17:37:00 UTC Reply

I was watching Mortal Kombat 9 walkthroughs, when I had a stupid idea banging my head to smithereens. It goes like this:

You are a real person in a real world. Generic USA, but choices are a plus.

You first meet either Depowered!Sauron, Alatar, Pallando, Maglor, or anyone Tolkienverse still staying in this Earth.

You learn their specialties, such as smithing from Depowered!Sauron.

Then you defeat other people with other or the same skill as you are.

You upgrade with each victory. You may perform better tricks, make more awesome weapons, even mecha or Ironman suits, and even upgrade your teacher to Aule, in this example.

Each character is a blank slate, for you to customise, but the teachers are static in their stats, and when you learn 100% of what he has to offer, you have to find a new teacher.

It is not just a fighting game.

Points are awarded for repairing damaged buildings or objects (Sauron), replanting trees, crops or grasses (Treebeard), or even crying or offering a handkerchief for random crying kids (Maglor).

Oh, and points are useful for building stuff, upgrading power, receiving a new teacher, etc.

Thanks to the complexity of teacher characters, you may have multiple skill set from one teacher.

For example:

Maglor gives you +5 singing, +3 diplomacy, +1 smithing.

Depowered!Sauron gives you +10 smithing, +5 diplomacy, -5 compassion.

This may be a sims game, but with the view going to Fighting Game when in a fight.

And you can have a dynasty of farmers, warriors, mechanics, whathaveyous to spread your knowledge to the whole Earth.

So, how does my stupid idea fare?

Some thoughts. by Ellipsis Flood on 2012-06-03 18:28:00 UTC Reply

Before I go on and ask metric f-tons of questions, there's one thing: We're a literature community. We're writers, not game designers. If you just want to run the idea by us, that's okay to do, but remember that game design isn't our focus.

Now, onto your text. First, I realize that line breaks make things more readable, but you overdid it a bit. Second, the aforementioned questions.

Why?

Why are various Tolkien characters in the real world? Why are they in Generic USA of all places? And why do they help the character? Why is any of this happening at all? And why should we, the potential players, care?

What?

What is it about? What kind of genre is it? You write it's a Sims game which turns into a fighting game when you enter a battle*, but that doesn't really tell me anything.

How?

How are you going to accomplish this? Are you a computer programmer? Do you have any experience in game design? Or resources, for that matter. Graphics don't grow on trees. Also, if you have any concrete plans, what are they? Any specific engine you're eyeing?

Okay, all that may sound like a lot, but you don't sit down and make a game, like that. It takes time and effort.

*This isn't actually a thing, by the way. The part of the game that deals with battles, the so-called battle system, often features different gameplay than the rest of the game.

Stupid Idea by darklordaakmal on 2012-06-03 19:27:00 UTC Reply

That's why I call this a stupid idea. Yes, I am just running it by the whole lot of you. Multiple heads debating together is better than one, and I might be able to tip off a game company to make this, allowing me to play it. Or make it into a fanfiction.

But I'll try to answer each Question.

WHY?

This needs a backstory. So, Dagor Dagorlad is about to begin, but we are so removed from the Three Ages that the Valars had barely an idea about how we fight wars, and we they. So by using those system of teaching 'magic' to the chosen humans, who will then disseminate the knowledge, you have the opportunity to effectively participate in the fight proper, and combine modern warfare and 'magic' warfare.

I say Generic USA, because I haven't thought of the places we can use. It has been the setting of most games, and I see no reason why this game should be an exception. But if we have the whole world as choice for spawn point, so be it.

Melkor and Sauron needs to gain troops to their side, and Orcs are not enough. They needs Men to fight this war, and by teaching them magic, something they didn't do the last time, they can maximise their chances of winning. The Valars think the same, and have to recruit Men for them to win.

WHAT?

As I said, I am thinking of a sims game, yes, think of The Sims 3, which will change to Mortal Kombat-like system. This is a weird thing, but I've seen Total War done it, but with turn based strategy and real time tactics.

Err, do I explain enough here?

HOW?

I did not intend to accomplish this. This is just an idea that banged into my head after too many Youtube videos. I have nary a programming knowledge, but I have friends in Computer Programming courses that I think may be able to pull this off. I did not have money to fund this, even if I am a millionaire, but it is

Or just discuss it here, turn the ideas into a novel, write it down, then let the game companies grab the rights.

I understand how long it takes to make a game, even if we have a fully functioning, well resourced company at our disposal, but I dream, and if I can't achieve it, better share it so someone else can.

The plural of Vala is Valar. by Huinesoron on 2012-06-03 21:12:00 UTC Reply

'Valars' is probably a Star Trek race. :P

One thing you forgot to mention - which I think had Ellipsis Flood confused - is that Tolkien treated the Elder Days as the distant history (6000 years or so) of Earth - so Hobbits still exist today (but are seldom seen by the Big Folk - prologue to LotR), etc etc. So yes, in that setting, various characters could well be wandering around. Alatar and Pallando, Maglor, Daeron, possibly even Celeborn.

But not Sauron. He's dead permanently. Melkor might be in, but I'd rather see him influencing others from the Void - and there's nothing preventing a Dragon or Balrog (or other lesser Ainu) throwing his ear in. (One of my fanfics mentions in passing the Dragon War in the northern ice which ended the Fourth Age. I like it. ;))

I like the idea of a training/combat split - in fact you could use it in any setting. You star as The Hero, who goes and learns vital skills, then goes into battle - maybe as a solo character, maybe as leader of an RTS army (my preferred option). I can see it working for a Tolkienverse setting, too. Wrap the whole thing up as a quest from Ulmo (he does that - see Tuor), and go get some magicky skills.

Alternately, and more generically, follow the Percy Jackson route and use ancient mythology. Same style, but instead of hunting Maglor, you're after the minor gods and immortal heroes of Greece/Egypt/Babylon/Scandinavia/China/all of them at once. In fact, make those possible civilisation start points - and you can face down heroes from /other/ civs. There's your individual-battle angle. Tolkienverse just gives a straight good/evil split - although you could, to mix things up, be a depowered Maia (a la Vemi) who can eventually level up into full battle-form (Balrog, for the Evil side).

(And game ideas don't have to be possible for them to be fun to think about. Hey, this would work as pen-and-paper, almost...)

hS

Wasn't that the TADers basic world plot? by Vixenmage on 2012-06-04 23:51:00 UTC Reply

...I think they were called TAD, anyway. Brothers In Arms is the other name I remember - Boz's RP, the one that was responsible for Old Woman!Elrond and Tulkas and Elb, and that scene where Legolas, in parody of the movie (and wondering who it was that told Tolkien all their secrets, anyway) shouts "Ai! Ai! A balrog is come!" and then finds Glorfindel standing there in complete shock with an arrow sticking out of the wall across from him...

Do you know where that whole series went, actually? IIRC, the archive was never coordinated entirely, but it might make for good reading anyway if it hasn't fallen off the internet altogether.

Brothers in Arms? by darklordaakmal on 2012-06-15 14:39:00 UTC Reply

Never heard of it. But there is an article in Wikipedia, abit a series of games. May have to check it out. But literally, I never even knew it until now.

Sauron, dead permenantly? by darklordaakmal on 2012-06-04 10:59:00 UTC Reply

Impossible to me. He must be severely depowered, but his ghost still inhabit Middle-Earth, cursing and being bitter for eternity, right? That's what I remember Gandalf said.

I am truly sorry for the Valars mistake. I always forgot. Valar is a plural of Vala, Valar is a plural of Vala,...

And thanks for your additions. It is very helpful. I'll digest this then repost for further evaluation.

All right, not /dead/. by Huinesoron on 2012-06-04 20:45:00 UTC Reply

Gandalf specifically says (according to Wikipedia):

If it is destroyed, then he will fall, and his fall will be so low that none can foresee his arising ever again. For he will lose the best part of the strength that was native to him in his beginning, and all that was made or begun with that power will crumble, and he will be maimed for ever, becoming a mere spirit of malice that gnaws itself in the shadows, but cannot again grow or take shape.

So he's still technically around, but certainly not teaching.

hS

Adding to What EF Said by desdendelle on 2012-06-03 18:37:00 UTC Reply

To put things into perspective: Writing something like Snake, with MSPaint graphics, in VisualBasic.net (which is a rather forgiving and not very powerful programming language), will take days. Writing a game like your suggesting, darklordaakmal, will take a lot of time. Years. I mean, look at the time it takes game companies to release their games (I'm not talking about Blizzard which is known for having projects stuck in development hell for ages, or Duke Nukem Forever which is, perhaps, the most famous example of vapourware) -- it takes them, at the very least, a year, and they have a lot of resources.

Why?

What?

How?