Re: My 50 cents on this work

Subject: Re: My 50 cents on this work
Author: Tungsten_Monk
Posted on: 2012-03-13 22:19:00 UTC

Heh, I've been here for five years and I still don't know the answer to questions like these. I doubt we'll ever reach a solid conclusion.

And you have an interesting point. Fanfiction occupies a very different niche from published fiction; it presumes a certain level of familiarity with a preestablished setting, for starters, and is much more of a personal exercise in indulgence. (I say this as someone with eleven years of fanwriting under my belt. XD) Stripping fanfic and publishing it as original fic may not be illegal, but it's questionable and ethically unsound.

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50 Shades of Fanfic by Tungsten_Monk on 2012-03-13 19:00:00 UTC Reply

Some of you guys may have already heard about E.L. James' 50 Shades of Grey, and its sequels 50 Shades of Darker and 50 Shades of Freed, which have been burning up the romance world lately. It's been called "Twilight for adults," among other things, and has a light BDSM flavoring that's gotten a lot of attention in the romance community. What's equally well-known is that the trilogy began life as a Twilight AU fanfiction called "Master of the Universe" (anyone else imagining Edward Cullen in furry underwear now?) and had the protagonists' names and details changed before publication. It seems to have replicated Twilight's success, if nothing else; 250,000 copies in various formats have been sold.

It's also . . . well, not very good, in my humble opinion. This review on Dear Author sums up the situation far better than I ever could.

A followup article compared the text of 50 Shades with the text of the original fanfic, and found an 83% correlation between the two; the biggest changes were in altering the Twilight details, like the protagonists' names. A publisher's representative called the fanfic and the published product "two distinctly separate pieces of work," but the data doesn't exactly support that conclusion. Stephenie Meyer's people don't appear to have filed any lawsuits at this time, but given the correlation and the fact that E.L. James is sort of indirectly profiting from Meyer's work, it's possible.

So my question is: where does the PPC stand on this? Given its popularity, it's likely that we'll be seeing 50 Shades fanfic at some point in the future. Do we treat it as a separate original universe, or as fanfic of a fanfic? Is it even possible to PPC fic of a fic? And how the hell can I publish my fanfiction for loads of money?

Bah hunbuggery, say I. by Aeidhryn on 2012-03-15 03:21:00 UTC Reply

If you didn't make it up--you didn't even make the characters up--why are you making money off of it?

See, this is my problem with the whole post-Ludlum Bourne thing. At least that guy can write a bit will, though! *head shake*

It may not be illegal . . . by Tungsten_Monk on 2012-03-15 04:52:00 UTC Reply

. . . but ethically, it really makes me squirm. Honestly, I hope she takes the opportunity of the exposure to junk the 50 Shades 'verse and write something completely original. Unclean, unclean!

Hah, fat chance. She's just made money off of it. by Aeidhryn on 2012-03-15 11:52:00 UTC Reply

So there goes that. If she had scruples about it I doubt she would've tried to put it in print as an original in the first place.

*edit* Humbuggery. by Aeidhryn on 2012-03-15 03:41:00 UTC Reply

Not that it matters much.

50 Shades Of Bullcrap by Gone Rampant on 2012-03-14 17:39:00 UTC Reply

The thing sucks, but Phobos did say it does have it's own universe, ripped off as it is.

On the other hand, it's a bad story based off a badfic. I can't see how this could get worse.
Sounds a bit like, by Aster Corbett on 2012-03-14 16:28:00 UTC Reply

All of those not-sherlock-holmes stories that popped up after the short stories became popular. Just that this is not-Twilight.
We-e-ell... by TheScribe on 2012-03-14 14:15:00 UTC Reply

It was originally intended to be a fanfic, however, it was eventually published as its /own/ universe. As such, I am in favor of treating it as a stand-alone series, despite its former status.

Also, let me just say, I never want to see a Twilight/He-Man crossover.

Ever.

/Ever./

Oh, dear, now I'm getting bad ideas. by AnnaBee on 2012-03-14 15:23:00 UTC Reply

...Skeletor might FINALLY get to be a competent villain and do the universe a favor.

On second thought, make it be so. *shot* (nm) by TheScribe on 2012-03-15 13:27:00 UTC Reply

An interesting case... by SeaTurtle on 2012-03-14 07:57:00 UTC Reply

But since it is published and intended to be read as its own universe, it must be protected like any other stand-alone 'verse.

That doesn't stop it from being ridiculous and possibly on the same level as Twilight, however.
Wha...What? by Alleydodger on 2012-03-14 06:22:00 UTC Reply

Really? Just...really? How can this happen! I'm...I'm just going to go crawl into a corner and cry now.
My opinion by Phobos on 2012-03-14 02:51:00 UTC Reply

It started as a fanfic. However, they changed the details and it got published, so now it is a separate work.

It has become its own universe. You could spork the original fanfiction, but not the work it later became.

That is how I see it.
Good question. by Astral Void on 2012-03-14 00:30:00 UTC Reply

IMO, it's an original universe, albeit not a good one. And now I'm seriously considering sporking it.

I've got dibs. XD by Tungsten_Monk on 2012-03-14 00:44:00 UTC Reply

Seriously, though, I'm starting the project this evening. This thing needs to go bye-bye.

Re: Fifty Shades sporking (please read if interested) by Tungsten_Monk on 2012-03-14 03:01:00 UTC Reply

Guys, I'm afraid I've had to change my mind. I just finished rereading the book . . . and I can't do this. I'm not nearly a good enough sporker to manage this steaming dump of a book.

The worst part? Some of it is okay. Competent, even. But the hero . . . the heroine . . . oh, God, I want to murder them both and then kill myself to make sure I never write a book like this.

If anyone else wants to spork it, feel free. I'm out.

Re: Fifty Shades sporking (please read if interested) by Astral Void on 2012-03-14 09:05:00 UTC Reply

*hugs* If I get access to a bookstore in the near future, I may just see if I can get a copy, should I still feel so inclined, and then I will spork the bleep out of it. *hugs again*

Re: 50 Shades of Fanfic by Frostbiter on 2012-03-13 23:48:00 UTC Reply

Personally, I think that it's Twilight knockoff...
Yeah, I think it would best if we treated this as a badfic and sporked this thing to the moon.
Well... by Stargazing Sketcher on 2012-03-13 22:28:00 UTC Reply

If it started as a fanfic, then it's a fanfic. Anything written based on it is fanfic.
O.O by AnnaBee on 2012-03-13 22:06:00 UTC Reply

What. The. Deuce.

Seriously?! If I thought I could pull it off, I'd be sending all my crappy Potterfic and Hetalia-fic to publishers. But alas...

It says a lot about Twihraka that all you have to do is change the names and get rid of the vampires, and you have a completely different (and still totally embleer) romance novel.

Someone needs to spork it. It's based on a badfic (Book!Edward, as far as I can tell, has no interest in BDSM), and a badfic with the names changed is still a badfic, ne?

If Jay and Acacia weren't in retirement, they ought to do it.

Actually... That would be kind of a cool story. The new members of the PPC pull the legendary Jay and Acacia from retirement to take on one last mission... 8D

I was thinking of doing a chaptered spork. by Tungsten_Monk on 2012-03-13 22:16:00 UTC Reply

Not so much a mission, but just a "TM Reads" type of thing, probably on LJ. Believe me, I'd rather have Jay and Acacia in on this, but I don't think we're ever going to see them back on active duty. :( Ah, well.

And yeah, it does say a lot, doesn't it? All you have to do is file the serial numbers off Twilight and you get something that's virtually indistinguishable from any other bad piece of fiction.

A short scenelet by Huinesoron on 2012-03-14 08:49:00 UTC Reply

Because I can.

---------------------

"Uh-cay-shuh!"

The lump in the bed made an incoherent mumbling noise, which ended on a squeak as Jay prodded her with a stick. Acacia Byrd pulled the sheets down and glowered at her onetime partner. Jay just beamed.

"We have to stop meeting like this - people will talk."

"What are you doing here, Jay?" Acacia demanded. "It's been ten years, can't you just leave me alone?"

Jay pouted. "Oh, you know you don't mean that, Acy. Think of all the fun we've had since!"

Acacia scowled. "Don't call me Acy. And what fun? That Jaycacia twit? This is not my idea of fun!" She shook her head and sat up, rubbing her eyes. "I suppose she's back again?"

"For once, no," Jay said. "This is something else. A romance novel."

Acacia stared. "We're in a romance novel?"

"Not as far as I know," Jay said. "One's just been published - Fifty Shades of Somethingorother?"

"I've read it," Acacia muttered. "It's not very good. So?"

"Apparently it's just a Twilight fanfic with all the names changed, aaaaaaand I got an email from, wow, from over a hundred agents asking us to-"

"No."

"But you didn't even-"

"No. A thousand times no. We're retired, Jay. No more PPCing."

"Not even-"

"NO."

"Okay." Jay shrugged. "That's what I thought you'd say. Now, onto more important business."

Acacia's eyebrows went up. "There's more?"

"There sure is... you read romance novels?"

The flying pillow hit her neatly in the head. "Just go downstairs and start the coffee, Jay."

------------

hS, muahaha

Save this. by Sergio Turbo on 2012-03-14 17:42:00 UTC Reply

It doesn't matter if we have to search every single boarder's email list to find a way, even indirect, to contact them.

This snippet has to be made canon.

It's on the Wiki now. by Huinesoron on 2012-03-14 20:23:00 UTC Reply

It's been ten years, and the poor things still can't escape...

hS

You go, entity! by AnnaBee on 2012-03-13 22:52:00 UTC Reply

*isn't sure what gender you are, so... XD*

Yeah, seriously. You go, Tungsten. :) That'd be like the hawt Scottish guys reading My Immortal. In a word, lovely. :3

Yeeeeeeah. I've often wanted to write a fic where you take the Twilight characters, put them in the World of Darkness or the Lestat-verse, and make them act like REAL vampires.

Malkhavian-Alice intrigues me.

In answer to your question . . . by Tungsten_Monk on 2012-03-14 00:46:00 UTC Reply

. . . I am of the lady persuasion. :) Thanks! I'll post a link as soon as I have the first part of the sporking completed.

And that's a lovely notion.

Well, you go, girl! by AnnaBee on 2012-03-14 02:24:00 UTC Reply

I can't WAIT to see the sporking. Though I prolly will not read all the smutty bits. >.> BDSM = not fun, and I usually don't read smut at the best time.

Oh, thanks. I just keep getting bored of it. ^^ Malk!Alice is fun, but I can't write all the Cullens, especially since they're all 1) evil, 2) insane, or 3) tortured!antiheroes. (What? It's the World of Darkness.)

I'm considering doing it as an RP.

Unfortunately . . . by Tungsten_Monk on 2012-03-14 03:02:00 UTC Reply

. . . I've had to change my mind. Thanks for your encouragement, but I can't do this. *facepalm* BRB, reading Pratchett now.

Ugh... by AnnaBee on 2012-03-14 17:12:00 UTC Reply

Well, some projects are too much for any one person.

I think this is like, a legendary Worsefic. If anyone sporks it, they will have saved the MULTIVERSE.

Pratchett = Lessening the need for bleeprin since 1971.

My 50 cents on this work by CDHammer on 2012-03-13 21:06:00 UTC Reply

And this is why some forms of literature should not be rewritten and published.

If the series had indeed began as fanfiction, then subsequently altered for the general public, hen I think it was done poorly for one critical reason: the underpinning tones and ideologies.

In fanfiction, IMO, it's relativly fine to, say, have these strange fantasies and whatnot about relationships and how they would turn out, etc. But if an author is writing for the general public, then that needs to entail the maturity and responsibility that can be expected of such a writer; real world experience needs to come to the fore here. Unfortunately, this doesn't appear to be the case.

As for your questions, I cannot provide solid answers on this one. Perhaps someone with more experience within the PC could answer?

Re: My 50 cents on this work by Tungsten_Monk on 2012-03-13 22:19:00 UTC Reply

Heh, I've been here for five years and I still don't know the answer to questions like these. I doubt we'll ever reach a solid conclusion.

And you have an interesting point. Fanfiction occupies a very different niche from published fiction; it presumes a certain level of familiarity with a preestablished setting, for starters, and is much more of a personal exercise in indulgence. (I say this as someone with eleven years of fanwriting under my belt. XD) Stripping fanfic and publishing it as original fic may not be illegal, but it's questionable and ethically unsound.

Well, in regards to your last question... by Pieguy on 2012-03-13 21:05:00 UTC Reply

...obviously the answer is "change all the names".

Minor thing with the Dear Author review: sometimes Kindle just randomly italicises whole pages for no reason. I don't know why. If it appears in the PRINT edition, then yeah, we have a problem.

Also, I did post a thread a while back about fanfics of fanfics. Can't remember what happened to it.

Re: Well, in regards to your last question... by Tungsten_Monk on 2012-03-13 22:16:00 UTC Reply

You did? Oh, I'm sorry! I went looking for other threads like this but didn't find yours, so I thought it hadn't been discussed yet.

And I don't know if it appears in print; I only have the ebook version. Which is bad enough.

What the?... by Sergio Turbo on 2012-03-13 21:04:00 UTC Reply

So we have a book, that is a disguised badfic of another book, that is itself believed to be poorly written (and IMHO a badfic itself)?

Dammit. Just... dammit.

My stand fot is that since it's a only slighty re-written fanfiction it doesn't have the "officially published" protection that even Twilight has, so it's killable and bad enought to be killed. With fire. Then bombs. Then NUCLEAR bombs.

And then Sun Crush the hell out of it. Just to be freaking sure this thing is dead.

If Stephanie Meyer decides to sue the hell out of it, it will be the only time you will see me AGREEING with her.

Re: What the?... by Sanejane on 2012-03-14 00:14:00 UTC Reply

A badfic of a badfic? Is there a word for that? Badficfic, perhaps?

Worsefic? (nm) by Tungsten_Monk on 2012-03-14 00:44:00 UTC Reply

Re: What the?... by Tungsten_Monk on 2012-03-13 22:20:00 UTC Reply

I know, it's like Moebius Fic or something. Or inbreeding. If books were families, the Twilight bloodline would be the House of Hapsburg.

I will forever picture them with the Hapsburg Chin, now. (nm) by VixenMage on 2012-03-13 22:55:00 UTC Reply
Or like Queen Victoria's bloodline. by AnnaBee on 2012-03-13 22:43:00 UTC Reply

Number one, they were all spawned from the Vampire Lestat, and then they interbred to the point where they're all cousins.

Number two- Victoria's kids had hemophilia. All these fics seem to hemorrhage sparkles.

Does that make Stephanie Meyer... by Huinesoron on 2012-03-14 12:21:00 UTC Reply

... the Grandmother Of Vampdom? Or would that 'honour' go to Bella?

(And now I'm picturing a massive crossover where Bella marries her grandchildren off to every vampire she can come up with... oh dear)

hS

Money, deer Huinesoron by Gone Rampant on 2012-03-15 18:34:00 UTC Reply

If it makes money, it's made.
Ohmygoshthatgivesmebadideas. by AnnaBee on 2012-03-14 15:16:00 UTC Reply

...Well, since Bram Stoker is the father of Dracula, and Dracula was the vampire that basically defined vampires... *eyetwitch* Bram Stoker/Steph Meyer? Lolno.

Heh. Good luck with the marrying-off thing. Most of my!vampires have RAGING commitment issues. RAGING. Because, you know, it's a bit hard to hold down a relationship when you're both just trying to stay sane. (My friend and I do a lot of World of Darkness stuff, so our vampires are... ya know. XD}

Not to mention that in some of these 'verses, vampire's... um... parts don't work? And in most of them, they're either not interested in sex, or obsessed with the kinkiest, creepiest kind.

Either way, I feel sorry for Bella's grandbabies. XD

This is your fault. by Huinesoron on 2012-03-14 15:52:00 UTC Reply

Vamp War I

"... all possible efforts have been made to bring this crisis to a peaceful resolution. Their having failed, we have no option but to resort to military force. As of noon today, this nation is at war with the Empire of Rice."

Bella switched the TV off with a sigh. "How did it come to this?" she asked the empty air. "It wasn't so long ago we vampire nations were allied against the world."

"They blame us, you know," a voice said from the shadows. Bella squinted, trying to make out the hooded figure she knew had to be there, but to no avail. "They say we corrupted the noble race of vampires - something like that."

Bella grimaced. "I know, Grandmother," she said. "The Stokerites have always had it in for me. Us. Whatever."

"At least we have allies," Grandmother pointed out. "All the newer nations are firmly on our side."

"But what use are they?" Bella despaired. "With Rice against us, the Butchers and Lukyanenkoids will rally to her flag. We are so massively outnumbered we need a new word for it."

"Court the Whedonites," Grandmother suggested. Bella snorted.

"Them? They hate us."

"But they hate Rice as well," Grandmother pointed out. "If we make concessions - some influence in the new nations, perhaps - they may fall in line."

"I don't think it'll work," Bella said glumly. "Isn't there anyone else?"

But Grandmother was gone.

-------

Muahaha.

hS

THIS. This is your fault. by AnnaBee on 2012-03-14 21:29:00 UTC Reply

[Author's Note: Lorcan is my Vampire: the Masquerade OC. Rein-Hager made VtM. XD]

Vamp War II ~ Part One

Lorcan crouched on the roof. He was cold, wet, and scared out of his mind; this mission was bad enough as it was.

You wouldn't think it would be so hard to send a sparkly, stupid Tore-knockoff to her Final Death, but hundreds of vampires and thousands of hunters and slayers had tried and failed.

He wiped the pouring rain out of his eyes, pushed his bleached-blonde bangs to one side, and glared at his partner.
"You *sure* we can pull this off?" he asked.

The Stokerite gave him a *look*. It wasn't a particularly angry look... yet.
"Silence, Rein-Hagerite."

Lorcan could hear the ice in his tone, and shut up. He didn't want to get, say, eaten alive by a swarm of bats.

A wave of blood-hot anger engulfed him. Stokerites thought they were better than every other kind of vampire, because they came first and were stronger. Well, from where Lorcan was standing, they seemed like just another clan to him. And he HATED the way they looked down at him and his for being 'younger'.

He fingered the two-bladed knife on his belt, and took a deep breath. It would really suck if he let the Beast out now. Stokerites were freggin' NASTY.

Lorcan scowled. Why couldn't he have had a Pratchettian as his partner? They had a sense of humor at least. Or a Whedonite, they were awesome. H*ll, even a Whovian vampire would be better, and they were giant fish-aliens in disguise.

/Allied High Command is a b-/

The mark rounded the corner. Lorcan recognized that smug face from the TV ad the Camarilla and the Stokerites teamed up to put out.

'Rosalie Cullen. Wanted for corrupting the noble race of vampires. Sentence: Death. Reward: $40,000.'

/Time for some fireworks./ He grabbed the knife and glanced at his companion.

"We goin', or..."

His companion nodded, and shifted. The dark-haired Stokerite turned into a massive wolf, leaping off the building.

Lorcan hung back, almond-shaped eyes narrowing. Something was wrong here, but he wasn't quite sure /what/.

His partner turned the corner, and there was a strangled howl.

TBC

[IS not very good. Wrote it while cleaning my room.]
[[[UNPARSABLE SUBJECT LINE]]] by AnnaBee on 2012-03-14 17:09:00 UTC Reply

The Whedonites hate EVERYONE. xD Why am I not surprised? XDD

I think by the end of it, it would be Twihraka and its knockoffs versus EVERYONE ELSE.

I almost feel sorry for the Twipires.

Can you write more of this? by Aeidhryn on 2012-03-15 03:46:00 UTC Reply

I would really like to read a full story.

If you and hS do a collaboration, it will be amazing. (nm) by VixenMage on 2012-03-15 05:47:00 UTC Reply

Thanks, guyz! by AnnaBee on 2012-03-15 08:10:00 UTC Reply

I had a LOT of fun writing it. :)

If hS is up for it, I'd LOVE to write about the Vampire Wars. :D

Only if... by Huinesoron on 2012-03-15 09:19:00 UTC Reply

... you don't require me to know anything about vampires. :P

(All right, more precisely: I can do Twilight, Night Watch, Dresden Files and a vague outline of Buffy. After that I'm pretty scuppered. Oh, and Discworld, if they count)

hS

That is TOTALLY fine. :D by AnnaBee on 2012-03-15 18:09:00 UTC Reply

The vampire-canons I KNOW WELL are Dracula (read fifteen times, and it gets scarier every time), Twilight, the Vampire: the Masquerade universe, the Vampirates books, the Vampire Knight manga, the Black Blood Brothers manga, the (contradictory) DC Comics vampires, the (vague) Potterverse vampires, and the Discworld vampires.

I have a vague knowledge of Cirque du Freak, aforementioned vague outline of Buffy, and an extremely vague knowledge of the Reformed Vampire Support Group (which I wanna add because it would be freggin' HILAROUS).

Long story short: I like my vampires.

I also had an idea for WHY the vampires are all at war, beyond just 'Twilight sucks'... It'd make a great title, too. We could call it 'The Dracula Heresy'.

Just as long as you don't... by Huinesoron on 2012-03-15 18:29:00 UTC Reply

... expect me to take it at all seriously.

hS

Oh, heck to the no! by AnnaBee on 2012-03-15 18:45:00 UTC Reply

This is the PPC. XD Anything goes.

I was thinking, like... the Stokerites worship Dracula. In a creepy, fandom kind of way. And they bully all the other vampires into at least MENTIONING Dracula in their worlds, so they can creep on their hero wherever they want.

Twilight refuses to even ACKNOWLEDGE Dracula exists. THIS MEANS WAR. Everyone else goes along with it, mostly because Twihraka stinks. XD

You like?

So then... by Huinesoron on 2012-03-15 19:01:00 UTC Reply

... who allies with Twiglet? Other than 50 Shades of Ripoff, naturally.

hS

Hmmm... by AnnaBee on 2012-03-15 19:25:00 UTC Reply

From what I can tell... Vampire Diaries and Anita Blake would probably ally. And Anita Blake is a canon Mary Sue, which would make ALL their lives SO much harder. *has not read the books, due to ENITIRELY too much shmex, but...*

Anita Blake, PSA to PPC agents. ;) by Miah on 2012-03-16 18:03:00 UTC Reply

I have to admit to having read some of these books. There is no sex in the book series until one scene in the very end of book six. Book seven is where it starts to be in more, and also where she starts becoming more Sue-like. I read I think up to book nine maybe, by which point she was a complete sex-crazed Sue.

When she first appears in book one, she's much more of a badass normal. She has some talent with her necromancy powers, but is a fairly low-level minion at a company that provides necromancy services. If memory serves (it has been a long while since I read them), she was about on par with the average PPC agent.

By book nine she's the most powerful necromancer in history, part of an extremely rare triumverate, then the leader of an even rarer secondary triumverate, leader of a clan of were-panthers (I think, it was definitely some kind of smaller Big Cat), infected with several strains of were-things, but not shifting, infected with vampirism, but not showing the symptoms, infected with the armour which requires that she have sex constantly, and apparently it continues to get more grandiose in the books beyond nine.

She actually makes a really good warning as to what not to let our agents become.

...Wut. by AnnaBee on 2012-03-16 23:43:00 UTC Reply

... I don't think even my WORST SUE that I wrote at the getgo is that bad.
Re: Anita Blake, PSA to PPC agents. ;) by Aeidhryn on 2012-03-16 23:09:00 UTC Reply

Armor that...?! How would that even...
Wow.
Hmm.
What does PSA mean?

Pardon my French. :P by Miah on 2012-03-18 00:32:00 UTC Reply

The Armour is my attempt to spell the French word for love. It was supposed to be a rare effect in that canon that some vampires had that made them need not only blood, but also sex/emotion. Like her primary vampire boyfriend (by book nine she had a whole harem, or whatever the term would be when it is applied to males), had this, but he is old and has it under control, and is sustained quite well by regular sex and being around a lot of emotion. He isn't required by the power to have sex immediately and constantly. Since she doesn't have it under control, she is. This is where the books devolved rather quickly into porn (and got pretty boring in the plot department. the last one I read was pretty muchly PWP.)

The word you need is "Amour" by Sergio Turbo on 2012-03-18 19:50:00 UTC Reply

Good thing I studied French too at elementary and middle school.

Don't expect me to be able to speak it, though.
Too bad. :( (nm) by Aeidhryn on 2012-03-18 18:30:00 UTC Reply

It means Public Service Announcement (nm) by Miah on 2012-03-18 00:25:00 UTC Reply

Thanks. (nm) by Aeidhryn on 2012-03-18 18:27:00 UTC Reply