Subject: You're welcome!
Author:
Posted on: 2012-02-02 21:58:00 UTC
Sorry about the unhelpful critique earlier.
Subject: You're welcome!
Author:
Posted on: 2012-02-02 21:58:00 UTC
Sorry about the unhelpful critique earlier.
So, back when Guvnor and I released "Secret Agents," I hinted at another story covering what happens before and after for Ilraen and Nume, and what Nume gets up to in the midst. Well, here it is! This is gonna get a little complicated, so bear with me. Overall information and link is as follows:
Diptych: "Secret Agents" and "Cosmic Love"
Summary: In which Ilraen is given a solo assignment and Nume doesn't like it.
Timeline: Mid-2011
Rating: PG/K+ - we're just getting started.
Betas: JulyFlame and Tranum
Individual mission information is:
"Secret Agents"
Summary: In which Ilraen teams up with Agents Orken and Thomas to keep a Sue from marrying Alex Rider and infiltrating Hogwarts.
Source: "Magic World" by The First Gatekeeper
Continua: Alex Rider and Harry Potter
Timeline: Mid-2011
Rating: PG/K+ - it's okay, the badfic can't actually hurt you. Excessive head-banging might, though.
Beta: Tranum
Co-writer: Guvnor of Space
and the new one:
"Cosmic Love"
Summary: In which love is found in all the wrong places.
Source: "Cosmic Love" by Izzie Jackson
Continua: Twilight and Harry Potter
Timeline: Mid-2011; shortly after "The Misadventures of Phobos, Part One – Bad Slash"
Rating: PG-13/T - MPreg, swearing, and more closet jokes than is healthy.
Beta: JulyFlame
Co-writer: Phobos
Individual mission links not included here, because the intro is new and I'd like everyone to start there, even if you already read "Secret Agents." Hopefully the in-site navigation will make sense from there, but if not, let me know.
Phobos and I also have a request: We would like to know what you think of our writing, not so much the badfic we sporked, so if you comment please bear that in mind. Thanks!
~Neshomeh
SECRET AGENTS
O'Neil, who had spent the last several hour
Orken, who was busy sorting through the contents of his backpack, rolled his eyes. "Yes, Agent Thomas, Agent Ilraen is an Andalite. I congratulate you for noticing that, and not letting your desire to greet him and invite him in get in the way. You know, silly things like manners."
I loved this bit of sarcasm. It's like Orken at his best. The kind of thing that makes me want to read more about him.
"If you wish to give up the notebook and continue your self-injury, Agent Ilraen is willing to note down charges."
This line made me laugh.
(This next section is pretty round about, but I think it works. It really did take me a long time to figure out what it was that was bugging me, and I thought maybe the process would be of some use. This was pretty hard to put my finger on, so it truly is a subtle thing. If I wasn't trying very hard to give some concrit here, I probably never would have mentioned it or given it enough thought to figure out what unsettled me.)
The argument between Ilraen and Orken felt off to me. I think I am supposed to be getting that Orken cares, but isn't wanting to show it. It was working, sort of, up until Thomas intervened. Then it just felt like Orken got to get off the hook with being pompous. He did apologize of course, but--I'm sorry that I can't pin point it exactly--the scene just left me feeling like Orken is a dick, but that I should be feeling that Orken is a Jerk with a Heart of Gold. It does get better at the wrap-up when they talk about it, but it still feels...forced? I'm sorry I'm not being more helpful here.
Orken kind of comes off a bit for the worse with O'Neil, too.
"If there was some way to communicate with him, things would be simpler. As it is, we have to guess. It isn't anything urgent, I assure you. We keep him well fed and he has free range of Thomas' side of the response center.
He just seems so...dismissive. Like if O'Neil's physical needs have been met that he isn't important enough to matter beyond that, so why bother trying to understand, or even give the mini some sympathy and understanding over the problem.
Actually, this might be part of the problem I had with their argument. Like, I know that Orken is scared that Thomas could go insane, so I know he cares and worries from the mission where Thomas OD'd and from the mission where his former partner did go insane. I know that's a real thing for Orken. In the argument none of his side feels like it is coming from there.
Orken shrugged. "He never asked for Bleeprin, and for the next couple weeks he can't have any, anyway. This seemed to keep him from doing anything too stupid—he has a thick head and has never done more than split it open a bit, and it's less likely to alert a Sue than him yelling about vegetables and Roman emperors. It isn't like he's slamming his head into things full force."
He makes mention of the previous incidents there, but I have this image in my head of someone who is standing there with a totally unconcerned look on his face, speaking in an unconcerned tone of voice, stating facts that are kind of distant from his caring. Maybe it is the shrug? Because of knowing more about Orken's past with insane partners, I feel like he should be reacting. At the same time I know he isn't the type to just start hugging and crying about it, but maybe if there was some observational note, like made by Ilraen or even Thomas (who is in much better position to know that Orken isn't as cool with insanity in partners as he seems).
Like Orken is being an unreliable narrator here, in my mind, but nothing in the text supports that, so I've gotten a dissonance. I think that is finally it. It took me a long while to work it out. It wasn't a huge one, or it would have been more obvious to me, but I think that is what I've been trying to get at.
He sighed. Apparently this was how the multiverse rewarded agents who thought they were ready for more responsibility. Ilraen had never seen a public service announcement, but just then he could have written one.
Best line ever!
COSMIC LOVE
Sar-Plasm™ started to ooze from the walls.
The Minbari looked at the goo on the walls. "Intern Bjørnsen, please inform Janitorial that Agent Supernumerary has been to visit. They will want to clean this up before it dries."
Random Fruit Cart-hahahahahaha. this line reminds that I need to work on more randomly hilarious moments. This is the PPC, of course there has to be a fruitcart involved in a chase. Thanks for this one.
Nume carefully plucked her arms away from him, wearing a look associated with removing an old banana peel that hadn't quite made it into the trash the first time.
Very nice description there.
I've read the other comments that said that Nume took the killing curse too well, but to me, he seems to take it very Nume-like. To me, Decima takes it awfully well. She seems more excitable than Nume, but basically doesn't comment on it. It could very well be a calm in the moment fall apart later kind of reaction, but she's still holding it together pretty well through the end of the mission.
I kind of like how Nume is more rattled by the loss of the RA than he immediately was over Decima most likely being dead. I'd say he could have been more surprised about her being alive than he was, but that could be part of his general not caring.
I have to say that you write the best jerk character I've read in the PPC. Especially since I don't really get the Jerk With a Heart of Gold vibe from Nume, more straight-up misanthrope. They definitely aren't easy to write.
I thought the magic through the plothole was inspired.
Loved the ending. Decima is not going to let Nume off easy over the closet incident is she? I look forward to their future meetings.
The argument isn't exactly how I would write it were I writing it now. Well, not the Orken parts at least. I was trying to show Orken showing off/asserting his authority, and I think it just came off as him being a jerk for no reason. Ah well, I'll definitely work on that.
I liked it so far. Nothing special, but not bad either.
My two cent on the RA thing: It didn't bother me that the RA was hit, it bothered me that Nume seemed a bit like "yeah, whatever." I mean, Decima just survived an AK. The last time that happened, big things followed.
She didn't survive it so much as she didn't actually get hit with it, due to there being something in the way. Big difference there. Plenty of people have survived not getting hit with an AK. {= )
Not really sure what to say about Nume, considering the above. With him it's always a game of "spot the emotion." If it were easy, he'd totally lose his reputation for being a stone-cold heartless bastard. {; p
Thanks for commenting!
~Neshomeh
Re: the Killing Curse and the RA: when the Killing Curse hit Decima, I was expecting a big, teary, and dramatic climax. Finding out that "Oh, it hit the RA," was a bit of a letdown and broke the mood of the story.
Otherwise, the mission was very funny. I especially enjoyed Nume and Decima's banter in Malfoy Manor and the chase scene.
Keep up the good work!
It's revealed that she's not dead a bit before it's revealed why. I'm nitpicking, but you must have reacted to her not being dead before the RA even came up, so I'm wondering when exactly the disappointment set in, and whether the bit where they might've been trapped had any impact at all.
Also... you expected Nume to cry? This amuses me. ^_^ Also, I'm genuinely curious to know if we wrote the tension of the moment well enough for that, 'cause I'd take it as a serious compliment, if so.
Thanks for commenting! I'm glad you enjoyed it apart from the controversial bit.
~Neshomeh
I might have misphrased my comment. What I was trying to say is that when Decima was hit with the AK, it was a very emotional "Oh no! She's dead," moment. Then, Nume started reacting as if Decima was actually dead and the situation was very tense. After it turned out that Decima was all right, it felt like the climax of the story was over and the mission would be finishing up.
A short while later, I found out that the curse had hit the RA, and then the suspense went right back up. The way y'all wrote that was very good, and I called the climax a "letdown" because it seemed like the resolution was coming and then it, well, didn't. After reading that over again today, I realised that it was actually a very interesting twist from a narrative point of view.
Also, the "Decima's not dead" revelation wasn't a "letdown". I was just shocked because "Wait?! She survived a Killing Curse? How did she DO that?" and I had a feeling that there was a DEM coming on.
And yes, I was expecting some sort of sadness from Nume if it had turned out that Decima was dead. Maybe not tears, but definitely an emotional reaction.
That's a lot more specific, and thus more helpful. The actual emotional impact we're having on a reader (or readers) is what we consider the real test of the writing. It's also awesome that you took the time to read the section again. Much appreciated, from both of us. {= )
You're right, Nume would've had to have some kind of emotional response. Probably not sadness, though. Anger, definitely. Maybe self-recrimination (if that's an emotion). He doesn't do "sad," or particularly understand it, I suspect.
~Neshomeh
Sorry about the unhelpful critique earlier.
I'm sorry that you were let down by the climax. We set out to kill the RA and that seemed to be the way that worked the best, as well as being in character for Vampire!Luna. While I am not above killing off a character, I think it is a little early in Decima's career to do her in. I have plans for that girl.
Maybe I will kill one of my other characters, instead. Hmm...
Anyways, I am glad you enjoyed it. The chase scene was one of my favorite parts, as well.
-Phobos
I enjoyed reading this, Nume and Decima are pretty good together, though I doubt they think so! :P
As always, I really liked when an agent was talkign with a Flower, and Nume's talk with the Lichen was one of my favorites. And Reading Decima's session with Mirrad (Who I forgot was a male >.>;) was funny too. I like it when people use Fic Psyche for more then just mentions. Oh! And the slipper! :D
Yeah, reading agents doing things with other people aside from partners before or after a Mission is always fun. Though, the chase scene was really good. So, I guess agents doing stuff aside from a Mission can be fun. Good idea with the stand too, I got a good smile out of that.
'three jagger like scars' Just... Mick Jagger. I can't say anything else about how great that was.
As for questions/nitpicks, I was confused for a second over the fic bits not being bolded, but that is really just a personal preference. It was still really easy to tell the fic bits apart from the Mission text, so no real biggie.
With that said, though, I would have liked to have seen some more fic bits. Specifically, the babies name. It took me a minute to try and figure out what it could be, and I am still not really sure.
As for the Killing Curse bit, I went to the Wiki to see if it was even possible. I always assumed that the Killing Curse was bigger then what it is. Like, a small wave or something. my Suspension of Disbelief wasn't really stretched too much by it, but I did find it really odd that there wasn't more amazement/unbelievibleness over her that narrowly avoiding sure death.
Altogether, I really, really liked reading it. It didn't seem too long, and had more stuff then just the mission.
I look forward to more from Decima!
-not sure why the killing curse didn't kill Decima, not strong enough? Hmm, kinda agree with PC that it is kinda weird. I always thought that it couldn't be blocked by somethign so small, and that the killign curse was not a bolt?
-
First off, thanks for taking the time to post this. It is much appreciated.
I'm glad you enjoyed the events before the mission. Those were a lot of fun to write. Using the existing Fic Psych characters is something that I would encourage everyone to do. They are there to give characters an excuse to talk.
I'm sorry the fic bits not being in bold was confusing for you. I am glad, however, that we were able to make it clear through the writing.
The baby's name was displayed on the CAD at one point. Were there other places you would have liked to see fic bits?
As for the Killing Curse, I always heard it was a green light. Nothing big or overtly monstrous, which is why it was always creepy.
Thinking back, you are right. There could have been more reaction to the near death experience. I'm not sure what that would look like, though, as both of the characters tend to bottle up their more negative emotions. Good note, though.
Normally I would agree that a small object wouldn't stop a Killing Curse. We were operating under the assumption that the object in question had a simple kind of life. The curse killed the first life it hit, which was the RA. We really didn't explain that in the mission because the characters wouldn't think of it (though Decima might, after some study).
Glad to hear you like Decima. She'll be back, and next time she might even get a permanent partner.
Supernumerary and Decima make a surprisingly good agent pair/team (although I suspect Nume was being more reserved than he normally would because he knew the end of working with Decima was in sight; I doubt he would bite his tongue quite so much if they were permanent partners). I also liked seeing the beginning of a story arc with Decima and her difficulties in accomplishing exorcisms.
I would have liked to see more quotes from the badfic in the "Cosmic Love" mission. Being told what's going on by the narration isn't as fun.
Also, I'd just like to say that I am very disproportionately excited to see a character I recruited appear in someone else's story. So thank you for that!
The bit with Decima in Fic Psych was to continue the character arc from her first mission. It really affected her when that wraith broke out of the circle. It shook her confidence and it will take time to get it back.
I also wanted it to show the softer side of her, the side she keeps hidden.
I yield to Nesh's replies on the other stuff, since it would be silly to go over it twice with you.
To repeat my question to PC, were there any spots in particular you could point out where you wanted a badfic quote? It would help to have some examples.
Re. Nume, it's possible that he secretly doesn't dislike Decima to the same degree he normally dislikes people, but yeah, the situation being temporary definitely helped, and the spoilery thing that happened.
Re. recruits, I figure they're brought in to be useful, so any excuse to let them is good for everybody. It's always a let-down to me when characters are recruited, but never turn up again. Plus, I just plain like Miss MacKinnon. I'm glad to have her around. {= D
Thanks again,
~Neshomeh
As an example of a place where a quote would have helped, look at this paragraph:
"The agents were surprised about one thing that happened. Bella made a comment about the people of Forks calling Van Helsing if they ever found out how many vampires, werewolves, and wizards were living there."
Starting out with telling us the agents were surprised, then narrating the dialogue in question before showing the agents' reactions really pulls some of the energy out of the scene (for me anyway; I realize this is kind of a personal preference). I just feel it would have been more fun to read if we readers had gotten the line (the surprisingly clever line, as the agents pointed out) out of the blue, and then been able to react to it at the same time as the agents. Am Imaking sense? Y/N?
A note about Miss MacKinnon. I've recently been rethinking my recruiting of her, since she really doesn't feel like an avergae character out of Fahrenheit 451. I originally based her personality around being the polar opposite of the Sue's description, but now she just feels out of place to me. Oh well. Now that you've published this, I'll never be able to go back and undo that! :p
Here is the badfic quote in question:
Forks already was clueless to the wizard, the ten year shape-shifting wizard, two werewolves, a coven of sparkling vampires and a bunch of shapeshifters. She muttered under he breath how the muggles were going to call Van Hellsing on all of them when they found out, earning a laugh from her father.
While I understand what you are saying, this badfic didn't have much that was really quote worthy. We have no idea what the joke really was because we never get that bit of dialogue. We took the above quote and boiled it down to what we said in the mission.
It is not a very long badfic, and we worked to get as much mileage out of it as we could. For instance, everything that Luna does in the beginning section of the badfic (up to the point where Harry and Draco show up) was a single paragraph. Not a long paragraph, either.
If we had been more liberal with our quoting, we would have had most of the text of the badfic in our mission, and that wasn't something we wanted.
"What if James Bond where fourteen and didn't have a different girl every movie?"
Also, when did Voldemort come in? The sue mentions him when your agents first talk to her, but Voldemort has yet to be mentioned anywhere.
I can't really say this was very good, but I'm too tired to do a proper review right now.
I thank you for the typo catch, and I'll be fixing that ASAP, but I really can't figure out what you're talking about, regarding Voldemort. His name comes up a few times in the mission, but it's not like he does anything. You'll have to clarify your meaning.
Also, I have to point out that it's incredibly rude to tell a writer you can't be bothered to give a proper review because you're not feeling rested at the moment. You could have waited, and in the meantime, the underlying message is that you don't have enough respect for the writer to spend the time on them. I can't believe the story, or Guv or I personally, are unpleasant enough to deserve that level of disregard, especially since we both have a history of being open to concrit. Please don't make a habit of this.
I will be very interested to read your review when you make the time—preferably not just before bed.
~Neshomeh
Well, first of all, it was a really nice read. The mission worked so far, but there were things I noticed.
Aside from the one or another already reported typo, the shifts between Ilraen's and Thomas/Orken's perspectives come across as a bit jarring.
Also, why is everyone treating O'Neil like a [redacted]? No wonder he's so grumpy all the time.
Is "a [redacted]" a thing? I'm not familiar with that. O'Neil not being understood is a running joke in Guv's spin-off, though. Ilraen tried to cut him some slack, but the Duty called.
Hm, not the first time I've heard about jarring POV changes in my co-writes. Thanks—I'll continue working on making these things smoother.
I'm glad you like it in general. Hopefully "Cosmic Love" will please, as well. {= )
~Neshomeh
It's one thing that O'Neil's not being understood, but he seemed kinda mistreated here. Don't know why. *shrug*
Also, I'm still at Cosmic Love. I'll throw in my two cent when I finished reading it.
"Yes there is. All the mist lately is from the guards from the wizard prison who have joined Voldemort, the maniac villain of the wizard world" replied Blunt
That's a quote from the badfic used in the mission- Voldemort was the villain of the piece, I guess. The fic did not focus on that so much. It was much more worried about the relationship between the Sue and Alex.
Also, I would like to see that review, and why exactly you don't think this is very good.
I hashed most of my thoughts on this mission out with Phobos in the IRC, but he asked me to put them up on the Board as well.
First off, some positive notes. Numa and Decima have some wonderful moments together, and the dialogue between them is very well done. The action scenes are well-paced and easy to follow.
I had a minor quibble with the lack of direct quotations from the badfic itself. Now, those who know me are aware of my dislike regarding big blocks of directly quoted badfic. However, this particular mission goes too far in the opposite direction. There are points - usually direct shout-outs to something mentioned in the text which would have been improved if the audience were allowed to read what the text actually said. It is a fine line between too much and too little quoting.
SPOILERS BEGIN HERE
I should probably also mention a minor problem I had that Phobos was able to explain away: how, after the mission, Draco was able to Apparate everyone from the Twilight setting to Harry Potter's UK. I had thought that this was impossible (Apparating between continuums, I mean) until it was explained to me that the two realities were still crossed over at the time. I accepted that.
My largest issue with this mission, however, still stands. I was stunned (and not in a good way) when Decima's Remote Activator blocked the power of the Killing Curse and saved her life. The entire sequence smacked of convenience and Deus ex Machina. While it may be true that some of the technology in the PPC might be a bit sentient, this is never directly said or even suggested to be the case in this situation. It felt like a very obvious cheat to set up the remainder of the story and the epilogue when Nume and Ilraen reunite.
If I might widen my gaze for a brief moment, I've noticed events like this in more and more recent missions: that is, agents almost but not quite dying. Having this happen on occasion isn't a problem. A bit of action-related drama can really do wonders for a mission. However, it begins to strain credulity to the point of nonsense when agents from all over are able to just narrowly avoid death.
All in all, this had the potentiality to be a very good mission. However, the DeM right at the climatic moment really did drag this one down for me.
First, thanks for taking the time to put this up. As I believe Phobos said, a well-rounded review is always worth being seen. {= )
Re. direct quotations, were there any spots in particular you could point out, for reference? If we didn't clearly portray what was going on, there's definitely a problem there; but if we did, I'm not so sure. I don't want to make anyone have to read the badfic personally to know what we're talking about, but if a paraphrase does the work, why quote? People do have the option of looking at the badfic if it's just a matter of curiosity.
SPOILERS AHOY!
Bleh, I didn't know there was an almost-dying trend going on. I sympathize; we could've broken the RA some other way if we'd known. {= /
Since it is what it is, though, I do have to disagree that the RA is a deus ex machina. Typically, these save the day through some magical-seeming means that wasn't previously established, when the author has obviously written herself into a corner that wasn't planned. The RA, on the other hand, had been in the story the whole time, and even if its sentience is in question, I can't recall seeing any Harry Potter spell pass through a solid object to affect its target. Also, while it does save Decima, it does not save the day. In fact, it creates another problem the agents have to solve. So, while any plot device loses its punch if it's overused, and I regret that the sequence had to be viewed in that context, it doesn't make this one a god-on-a-machine.
Ironically, the entire point of killing the RA was to respond to a different trend, of killing anything but the RA, as though it's sacrosanct. The Ironic Overpower even gets us out here. {= P
Anyway, thanks again for posting up your comments. It's always a pleasure to disagree with a real critic. {= )
~Neshomeh