Subject: Which part?
Author:
Posted on: 2011-12-19 19:57:00 UTC
The forging of the sword is in the third book. The mention of Galbatorix kicking Vrael is in Borm's legend in the first book.
Subject: Which part?
Author:
Posted on: 2011-12-19 19:57:00 UTC
The forging of the sword is in the third book. The mention of Galbatorix kicking Vrael is in Borm's legend in the first book.
I believe I have the perfect trump card to this argument on if Eragon is a Stu or not.
When I was at Comic Con two years ago I saw Paolini speak. There he admitted that Eragon is a Gary Stu.
If you can't believe the author, then who can you believe?
I didn't even know he knew the term...
Still, I prefer to take almost everything I hear with a grain of salt, so I'm not accepting Eragon's Stu-ness just yet.
Maybe once I've had more time to reflect on it, but not now.
I'm simply saying that I'd prefer to think over the evidence gathered here and come to my own conclusions. At this point, I think I have enough of the other point of view to do that.
... Yeah, that pretty much does it, I'd say.
Also, howdy, Kippur! Good to see you here! {= D
~Neshomeh
And based on the definition you just gave, Eragon being a Stu does make at least some kind of sense. Again, I'm still not sure I agree, but I understand.
I don't have anything to contribute to the discussion since I haven't read any of them, but I just wanted to say I *like* your phrase there.
I only read the first book because I found it really boring. The setting was boringly generic, and most of the characters felt like vaguely-described fanfic characters. Eragon is the most boring of all, and gets the most screen time, which is probably why he feels so Suish.
Personally I did and do enjoy the Eragon books for one main reason. I am easy to entertain and they weren't badly written. What I mean is the wording, grammar, use, descriptions, and the actual world itself is actually fairly entertaining.
Yes I have ready many books far superior to the series, but its still enjoyable even if he is a Gary Stu. Admittedly there is some excuse for how much stronger he is over the norm by dint of being a "dragon rider" who are supposed to be powerful due to their very nature, but just by being the last dragon rider, that is also a Stu trait, or so I think. I could be wrong on that last.
But I've never heard the Manhunter being called a Stu at all, which was the gist of my point. Probably because of the whole fire thing, as you said.
And I also get what you're saying about the writers, and it makes sense. Things that are annnoyingly Stu-like with one writer may be tolerable or even interesting with another. And that actually sheds a lot of light on the Eragon thing: Paolini may not be a good enough writer to pull off a good Stu completely.
I do think that Eragon is a Stu, but I'm of the opinion that, if well written, Stu's and Sue's can actually enhaance a storyline. Depressingly, these are very rare, but I suppose Eragon falls into this category.
Irrelevently, I tried to write an intentional Stu for a JuNoWriMo once. It failed epicly. He ended up one of the most flawed characters I've ever had.
I'm trying to figure out what you're saying and I get most of it, but I think that I'm being hampered in full understanding by my lack of knowledge of what LARP is.
Still, your points are well-taken, and I will concede that, weapon-wise, he is a bit of a Stu. Now I think I understand the viewpoint (even if I still don't completely agree).
...Galbatorix does endorse slavery, though in retrospect, it seemed tacked on to give Eragon something to rage about.
I mean come on. Sword of Sueness if I've ever seen one.
And the elves. Mary-Suetoipa and author tract to the maximum.
I actually laughed out loud when they made Galby evil for kicking somebody in the crotch. Sure, it's dirty, but it's simply the mark of a combat pragmatist.
I really really want to read that part.
The forging of the sword is in the third book. The mention of Galbatorix kicking Vrael is in Borm's legend in the first book.
You realize that every other Rider had one of those swords? It's only unusual because most of the other Riders died.
I have yet to see evidence of the elves being Sues any more than I can see any other elves being Sues.
And about that last, I distinctly recall asking for 4th book spoilers to not be discussed. Granted, this is minor (and I have to agree with the point you've made, from what little I know of the incident in question), but I would still like to actually read the book and find out for myself.
She did it in one night because she used magic, which had previously been indicated could do anything as well as manual labor.
Which may also have something to do with it being possibly the best sword she had made.
As for the flames...I don't recall them being useful. If they were useful, I could see Sword of Sueness.
Just with this one point-- I only read the first book once, and never touched the rest of the series. So I've only got a clinical sort of point to throw in, here.
Having a cool feature that doesn't add anything the conflict/plot/etc... actually kind of makes it more Stuish, not less. One of the defining characteristics of a Sue/Stu, IMHO, is one that Calista pointed out earlier-- there's all kinds of 'cool' and 'awesome' features thrown in, not to advance the story, or add characterization, but because it makes the character look cooler. Which, quite frankly, is exactly what Brisingr looks like from here.
I'll have to think about that one, but I do think that I'll probably end up agreeing with this one point, at least.
I don't hate him. Nor do I like him better than say, Belwar or Buenor. What I don't like is that he's frequently ripped off, to the point that other takes on Good Drow get ousted.
If a sword can cut through a magic door, burn wood, and destroy metal reinforcements while on fire, I'd say there is a good chance the sword would be Speshul. In my opinion, doesn't matter whether the flames that cover the sword are useful or not, the question to ask is: "Do the other Riders' swords have magical properties (other than the energy sink in the jewel), or is it just Eragon's?"
I just realized Eragon's name is one letter away from spelling "dragon". Kinda late to the party, but yeah.
...but if not, point taken.
Personally, I think that a major part of Sueness is being the protagonist, which the elves aren't. I will grant that they might be there just to have someone for Eragon to become as good as, but I think they fall just short of Sueness due to not being protagonists.
It spits flames. 'Nuff said.
As for the elves, they seem to be the idealized version of the author's society. Nothing wrong with that, but it still gets on my nerves.
Galbatorix pulling a groin attack on Vrael happens in the first book, by the way.
Also, I remember a sneak attack, but I don't remember the attack being to the groin. Still, my memory may be faulty on this point; it's relatively minor, in my mind at least.