Re: Is it absolutely necessary?

Subject: Re: Is it absolutely necessary?
Author: orangedream13
Posted on: 2009-11-14 03:38:00 UTC

i know what pathos is but what is bathos?

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how's this for a power? by orangedream13 on 2009-11-11 21:47:00 UTC Reply

Suppose I could materialize a limited number of military units (Infantry squads, armor, etc) as well as some equipment for myself.
They would not be human lives, merely imitations of life that could recieve orders telepathically and obey without question.
They could fit in with the canon or be generic soldiers with M1 tanks.
I would not need to constantly think about them to keep them present but if i were to fall asleep or be knocked unconscious they would all dematerialize. If I were riding in a gunship and fell asleep for even a moment i would fall to my death.
I would only be able to summon things that are related to combat (weapons, armor, etc) and would have to create fuel and ammo regularly.
The units would have a limited range to keep them from being able to go to the other side of the world while i drink biscuits and tea. Summoning each one would cost some kind of energy or stamina or something. maybe you have ideas.
I also don't know if I want to be able to create the soldiers from nothing or transform existing matter into soldiers. What do you guys think?

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Agreed; much too much. by Neshomeh on 2009-11-12 03:01:00 UTC Reply

Also, why would you be drinking biscuits? That sounds unpleasant.

~Neshomeh

Re: Agreed; much too much. by orangedream13 on 2009-11-12 03:51:00 UTC Reply

Actually, what I do is mix them together until the biscuits are reduced to mush, then drink it :)

Well spotted.

I'm with Techno-Dann; it's too much. by Sedri on 2009-11-11 23:38:00 UTC Reply

The essence of the PPC is that we're never going to finish our job; that's why the sadistic Flowers have so many Rules in the first place. What you suggest would be efficient, effective, and absolutely no fun. Who wants to read a story like that? It's effectively the Mary-Sue version of a war game.

That said, if you scaled it down immensely and put in a lot of problems that cause your agent's minor advantage to often malfunction, backfire, or otherwise be a source of humour without breaking the general PPC agent mold... that has potential. You'd have to run it by the Board first, though.

Re: I'm with Techno-Dann; it's too much. by orangedream13 on 2009-11-12 00:23:00 UTC Reply

I'll find a good idea eventually

Like he said, by Vixenmage on 2009-11-12 05:41:00 UTC Reply

I'd strongly, strongly suggest reading the Original Series. It's where this entire sub-sub-sub-culture comes from, and well worth the read even if you're not an Agent, just for the entertainment value. (Hell, even if you don't know LotR canon, they're good.) They'll also give you a very good idea of original PPC canon. The spin-off series' can be really awesome (and in most cases are-- or all cases, I'm hardly an unbiased observer), but the Original Series is where the PPC comes from, it's what the PPC really looks like, and it should definitely be your first resource while looking for an idea for an Agent.

And if you're a One Piece fan, if that's where your agent would be, why the need for a superpower at all? Most of that world seems to be fairly normal, except for those who've eaten Devil Fruits. Your agents' disguised as pirates should be just fine to take down any Sue/Stu -- or if you really wanted, a shark or something, even. But that's just my two cents.

(As a nitpick of an aside, I'd recommend also that you go through your posts before putting them up and check your grammar. They're not that bad; just a quick once-over will probably do, if you don't mind. It's kind of in the Constitution. Also, be careful of double posting, and try not to start too many original threads so close together. Each new thread bumps an old one off the front page, and another one off into the Dead Space of the Net.)

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Hoisted by my own petard! by Vixenmage on 2009-11-12 05:47:00 UTC Reply

...I don't know why I ended every plural in that post with an apostrophe. I'll blame it on NaNo and it being almost one AM where I am.

You may want to re-read the Original Series... by Techno-Dann on 2009-11-11 22:42:00 UTC Reply

Conveniently located here for your convenience.

The point of the PPC isn't to be mythic heroes ridding the world of badfic, or even knight-in-shining-armor types cleaning one 'verse at a time - The point is that the agents are borderline-nutcases doing an impossibly large job one teaspoon-full at a time, with half-broken equipment that never was enough for the job, and working in the most messed up corporate environment that has ever existed. And humor, ostensibly.

This is why I'm so strongly against superpowered Agents - we aren't here to change the world, it's the very fact that the world is unchangeable in anything resembling reasonable time that makes the PPC what it is.

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Re: You may want to re-read the Original Series... by orangedream13 on 2009-11-11 23:20:00 UTC Reply

Can I be a jarate master then? Jarate is supposedly "jar based karate" but it really boils down to making enemies weak by throwing jars of urine at them.

Back to an earlier point... by Techno-Dann on 2009-11-12 00:00:00 UTC Reply

You really should read The Original Series. The PPC has a rather unique feel to it, just because a power isn't grossly overpowered doesn't mean that it'll fit well. There have been rather powerful Agents who fit in, and I could fairly easily write one who would be a perfectly normal person... and yet be completely and utterly the opposite of what the PPC is trying to do. (Huinesoron already did, actually...)

So, read TOS. It's a very good read, and ultimately, if you haven't read the original material, writing fanfic is rather hard...

Re: Back to an earlier point... by orangedream13 on 2009-11-13 02:34:00 UTC Reply

Just want to make sure I explained the jarate thing properly (For those who don't play tf2) before proposing something else:
Becoming a jarate "master" only takes as long as you need to piss in a jar.
Enemies who have been hit by jarate lose the will to live (At least in the game).
This probably wont work on "ebil" sues, who always seem to have some weird fetish.

Is it absolutely necessary? (nm) by Ugolino on 2009-11-13 13:15:00 UTC Reply

Re: Is it absolutely necessary? by Unbridled on 2009-11-13 13:51:00 UTC Reply

I don't think so. It strikes me as annoying gross-out humor. *shrugs*

Re: Is it absolutely necessary? by orangedream13 on 2009-11-13 23:10:00 UTC Reply

scratch that idea then

Re: Is it absolutely necessary? by Unbridled on 2009-11-14 01:32:00 UTC Reply

Bathos for the sake of bathos has always annoyed me. heck, it was one of the reasons I couldn't finish Canterbury Tales.

Re: Is it absolutely necessary? by orangedream13 on 2009-11-14 03:38:00 UTC Reply

i know what pathos is but what is bathos?

bathos is... by The Trojanhorse on 2009-11-16 09:27:00 UTC Reply

... essentially lowering the tone. Lowering the tone speedily and violently, usually. And it's a device that's been used since the days of Aristophanes and which I personally adore :)

For example:

'Oh Lycus, lord and hero, let me turn to you in prayer:
It really is remarkable how many tastes we share.
You love the tears of supplicants, no sound can please you more,
And that is why you choose to live close by the courtroom door.
Have pity on your neighbour now, and lend your aid divine,
And I'll promise not to piddle in the reeds around your shrine.'

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*points to Canturbury Tales* by Unbridled on 2009-11-16 09:37:00 UTC Reply

I'll just, uh, leave this here.

*snickers* by Neshomeh on 2009-11-16 22:56:00 UTC Reply

I enjoy the Canterbury Tales. Chaucer was a man after our own hearts, if you ask me. According to my lit professors, most of what he was doing was snarking at the foolishness of the Catholic Church and the upper classes (and other mock-worthy people, like alchemists), which makes the whole experience funnier.

Disclaimer: I have nothing against Catholics or the Catholic Church. But you have to admit that they've done some things worth mocking over the course of history.

~Neshomeh

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Re: *snickers* by Unbridled on 2009-11-16 23:31:00 UTC Reply

True.

But IMHO, he could have left out the fart jokes.

Nooo! Fart jokes to the end! by The Trojanhorse on 2009-11-18 06:36:00 UTC Reply

Also, fart jokes would be scatological humour, not bathos :P (sorry, sorry, just have to defend my beloved bathos until the end :) )

I suppose. by Unbridled on 2009-11-18 07:15:00 UTC Reply

Youwin this time, Trojanhorse. You win this time.

It was well-fought *bows* by The Trojanhorse on 2009-11-18 07:20:00 UTC Reply

And you can call me Trojie :) Everyone else does.

Re: It was well-fought *bows* by Unbridled on 2009-11-18 09:20:00 UTC Reply

Well then, Trojie, 'tis nice to meet you.

Re: Is it absolutely necessary? by Unbridled on 2009-11-14 06:33:00 UTC Reply

Pandering bathroom humor.

I dunno... by Unbridled on 2009-11-11 21:56:00 UTC Reply

I'm just as much of a newbie as you, but those powers almost seem a bit OP.

This isn't a RP, after all, it's fiction writing.

WoG would probably be a better answer for you though.

*Is just going with a vanilla brit who failed the psych exam for the Met and is good with firearms*

Re: I dunno... by orangedream13 on 2009-11-11 22:00:00 UTC Reply

Whats OP stand for?

And how can I make it less roleplaying-y?

Re: I dunno... by Unbridled on 2009-11-11 22:03:00 UTC Reply

Overpowered.

*shrugs*

Check the wiki. If anything, the sues would have that whole materialization power thing. Agents are relatively normal for their races, in general.

Re: I dunno... by orangedream13 on 2009-11-11 22:06:00 UTC Reply

I figured that as long as I balanced how easily the minions died and how much firepower i could have at one time I could get away with it (Especially in universes like one piece where the main characters can fight entire armies and win)

And isnt one of the agents some kind of supernatural being in human form who chooses to limit her power? That's sort of where i got the idea.

Actually, yes, but. by Neshomeh on 2009-11-12 07:16:00 UTC Reply

There are a few female agents I can think of who are supernatural beings--Vemi Fincaran turned out to be a Maia; Verra Rose is well-known for being a dragon; there are a couple of vampires, including Selene Windflower; and then there's my own Jenni Robinson, who fits the description to such a degree that I'm afraid she's the one you were referring to. ^_^;

But the key thing you said there was "chooses to limit her power," which means that the supernatural part is more a piece of trivia than anything else, aside from a couple instances of telepathy in Jenni's case, one of which was not her idea. Similarly, I don't recall Vemi ever using power of any sort, and Selene got into huge trouble for letting her lightning ability get out of hand. Verra might have eaten a few 'Sues, but that's only to be expected from a dragon, and a neat way to dispose of them to boot. Also, all of those except Jenni are either retired or insane, and Jenni works in FicPsych, not in the Word Worlds. Anyway, the key is not to be ostentatious in any way--as others have said, that's not what we're about. Read any of the aforementioned women's missions, and you'll see.

Recap: Yes, there are agents with powers. However, they do not make a point of it, and they get slapped down for it if they get ideas above their station and use them during missions. Most agents do NOT use ~~Sueper~~ superpowers.

And do read the Original Series first and foremost.

~Neshomeh

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*shrugs* (nm) by Unbridled on 2009-11-12 06:56:00 UTC Reply
You've already been told no, that should be enough. by Anonymous on 2009-11-11 23:02:00 UTC Reply

Besides, considering Dann is a Permission Giver, if you apply for Permission with that it'll likely be a reason for you to be denied, anyway. So it likely won't go through.

Re: You've already been told no, that should be enough. by orangedream13 on 2009-11-11 23:03:00 UTC Reply

I wasnt actually applying for anything. sorry

I meant in the future. by Anonymous on 2009-11-11 23:07:00 UTC Reply

That if you go for permission with that idea still in mind, it'll be a reason for denial.

Re: I meant in the future. by orangedream13 on 2009-11-11 23:10:00 UTC Reply

is there a wiki article on what's commonly acceptable? My other idea probably wont fly either

Re: I meant in the future. by Pads on 2009-11-12 00:14:00 UTC Reply

There's no wiki article because we haven't needed one. The rule runs thus: if it's extra or sparkly or amazing or in some way beyond the abilities of your average bog standard human, then it's not an idea to run with. There's leeway if the agent in question isn't human, but even then, the aim is to make agents as normal and non super powered as possible.

Consider it this way: if you need an agent with amazing sparkly powers to beat the Sue, then you're validating that Sue's existence. We take them down with logic, sanity, laws of physics, and hard graft. Any Sue can be taken down with such. A Sue that needs magical powers to be dealt with? It's like you're admitting her powers are special and sparkly and beyond human.

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Not exactly, no. by Anonymous on 2009-11-11 23:32:00 UTC Reply

It's more a common-sense thing.

*shrugs* (nm) by Unbridled on 2009-11-11 22:27:00 UTC Reply

Sage by Lock on 2009-11-12 13:15:00 UTC Reply

Exactly.

*fails a tiny bit* (nm) by Unbridled on 2009-11-12 13:20:00 UTC Reply

Sage by Lock on 2009-11-13 05:32:00 UTC Reply

It just had to be done, how could i not?

*smacks upside the head* by Unbridled on 2009-11-13 05:48:00 UTC Reply

Heh