I love Prehistoric Mesoamericarda. So, so much.

Subject: I love Prehistoric Mesoamericarda. So, so much.
Author: Scapegrace
Posted on: 2015-06-25 13:52:00 UTC

Just out of interest, what would Scapegrace be in Quenya, Sindarin, &c? I can trade for Tau... sort of. =]

I love how involved this setting has become, and I'm really glad to have been a (small, weird, slightly irritating) part of it. I also love the ideas presented, though my personal headcanon is that the fields of the Pelennor were actually chinampa - the famous Aztec floating gardens, whose construction was rediscovered by 6th-age empires along the lakes left after the Anduin had its course forcibly changed by the medium of Anatolian meteorite.

Also, and I realise this is ever so slightly contentious: Numenor's positioning on Hawai'i is an almost exact match for where the lost continent of Mu/Lemuria/Similar-Pseudoscientific-Claptrap, at least according to my Umberto Eco. If we accept the Sundering of Numenor as analogous to the mysterious disappearance of Mu, then it makes sense to have the Hawaiian islands as Numenorean.

Also also, where do the Pacific Islanders and Melanesians fit into all this? Are they also Maiar? Were they the original Shipbuilders? CAN YOU TELL I LOVE THIS SETTING WAY WAY WAY TOO MUCH YET? =]

Finally, onto Plort: I may possibly have to dredge up some of the Early Modern Drama group I was part of a while back. It should be fun. What for I'm sure that you can guess. =]

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Double silly PLUG: Middle-earth and Plort. by Huinesoron on 2015-06-25 09:40:00 UTC Reply

First up: A New Perspective on Middle-earth. Yes, it's based on the thread last week (at least, the ideas are - the participants are NOT!). Fantasy linguists may recognise some of the posters in the discussions. ^~

Secondly, I am pleased to present a play which will be performed at the forthcoming Games of Batveg:

The Eagle's Shadows is a... let's say satirical look at the recent election of four barons. Unlike most other Plort documents I've written, it's emphatically not written by Baron Huinesoron (who tried to have it banned, until Kaitlyn talked him out of it ^^). It's also not in any way an accurate account of what happened - or of anything much at all!

I would apologise for the people (mis)represented by the anonymous playwright, buuuut I'm not gonna because it was too much fun. ^_^ I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.

hS

I'd love to see what became of that thread... by Desdendelle on 2015-06-25 21:47:00 UTC Reply

But unfortunately I get a Connection Reset error every time I try to access your site.

Huh. No idea why. by Huinesoron on 2015-06-26 08:55:00 UTC Reply

If you still can't get onto it, the linked page is basically just a holder for three Google Doc links:

Where was Edoras, capital of Rohan? (RG Model only, please!)
Having trouble with Valinor.
Visuals at the Pelennor?

hS

It's really weird. by Desdendelle on 2015-06-26 16:35:00 UTC Reply

Because I only get it from your site; all other sites I try to access function normally.

I think I found the problem. by Desdendelle on 2015-06-26 17:37:00 UTC Reply

It's the ISP, so I talked to their tech support.
That said - did you know that your site does not reply to ping requests?

No, I did not. by Huinesoron on 2015-06-29 16:03:00 UTC Reply

Is that a Webs thing, or a huinesoron.webs thing? Because I don't know how I would've caused that.

hS

... Nevermind that. by Desdendelle on 2015-06-29 21:04:00 UTC Reply

I can ping huinesoron.webs.com now. Thing is, neither I nor my dad nor our tech support could ping huinesoron.webs.com before; since the problem was at the ISP's level, it probably affected us all. Now that it's solved, though, well... it's solved and I can read the Continuity Council stuff again.

Ohhh, by JulyFlame on 2015-06-25 16:52:00 UTC Reply

Well, I was certainly warned, so there's that.

And it was certainly a representation. (A July, actively present, seemingly ignoring. Or is she?)

Well, I giggled a lot... (nm) by Cassie on 2015-06-25 22:47:00 UTC Reply

I should state for the record... by JulyFlame on 2015-06-26 01:00:00 UTC Reply

That I was indeed giggling like a maniac throughout reading it, too.

My initial reply was more a general response because hS had also given me a kind of 'forewarning' that representation was going to occur.

Well... by Huinesoron on 2015-06-25 16:58:00 UTC Reply

... why wouldn't you ignore yet another of his interminable rants about how terrible everything is? You could probably play Baron Huinesoron Bingo. 'Oh, he's at it again; how long until he says 'Golden Age'?' ^_^

hS will forever imagine Barons July and Kaitlyn in the corner of the Council Hall, playing cards and MSTing the meetings

Alternately... by JulyFlame on 2015-06-25 17:04:00 UTC Reply

She may well just decide to attempt to overthrow him for kicks and giggles.

Even were it to lose her a partner in playing cards. :P

Both are hilarious by Tira on 2015-06-25 15:12:00 UTC Reply

I can't quite comment on the content of the first one; I know even less about prehistoric Mesoamerica than I do Lord of the Rings. But at the very least, you've done an excellent job of reflecting the type of forum discussion you see some places. It's so funny precisely because it's so true. The play was also very funny, though I was slightly disappointed that Thanasius didn't get a chance to do any Shakespearian snarking.

Thanks. ^_^ by Huinesoron on 2015-06-25 15:21:00 UTC Reply

Yeah, the anonymous author decided to play up the 'crow' aspects rather than the 'snark' aspects of Thanasius. I'm sure that, since political satire in play-form is apparently a Thing in Plort, there'll be loads of shows at the Games with snarky Thanasius...

hS

Brb, roflmao. by Iximaz on 2015-06-25 14:23:00 UTC Reply

*wipes her eyes* The Plort play had me in stitches, especially every instance of caw. Dear lord what is wrong with me.

I would say poor Neshomeh and Phobos, but it looked to me like they were having a fun time in the play.

Lady Iximaz would get a kick out of this... But probably because the playwright didn't grossly misrepresent her. XD

...

Caw.

*wanders off giggling like a lunatic*

^_^ by Huinesoron on 2015-06-25 14:48:00 UTC Reply

Honestly, the only person accurately represented is I think July - and maybe Iximaz. I'd temporarily forgotten how scheming she was in advance of the elections - 'if the baronial council wants a war' etc.

Though I'm pretty sure she didn't giggle when she was elected.

hS

Caw.

Oi, I thought we retconned that! by Iximaz on 2015-06-25 15:16:00 UTC Reply

How many times— ah, forget it.

By the way, reading it again? Made it even funnier. What is this I don't even.

hS, you are my Shakespeare. *bows*

I love Prehistoric Mesoamericarda. So, so much. by Scapegrace on 2015-06-25 13:52:00 UTC Reply

Just out of interest, what would Scapegrace be in Quenya, Sindarin, &c? I can trade for Tau... sort of. =]

I love how involved this setting has become, and I'm really glad to have been a (small, weird, slightly irritating) part of it. I also love the ideas presented, though my personal headcanon is that the fields of the Pelennor were actually chinampa - the famous Aztec floating gardens, whose construction was rediscovered by 6th-age empires along the lakes left after the Anduin had its course forcibly changed by the medium of Anatolian meteorite.

Also, and I realise this is ever so slightly contentious: Numenor's positioning on Hawai'i is an almost exact match for where the lost continent of Mu/Lemuria/Similar-Pseudoscientific-Claptrap, at least according to my Umberto Eco. If we accept the Sundering of Numenor as analogous to the mysterious disappearance of Mu, then it makes sense to have the Hawaiian islands as Numenorean.

Also also, where do the Pacific Islanders and Melanesians fit into all this? Are they also Maiar? Were they the original Shipbuilders? CAN YOU TELL I LOVE THIS SETTING WAY WAY WAY TOO MUCH YET? =]

Finally, onto Plort: I may possibly have to dredge up some of the Early Modern Drama group I was part of a while back. It should be fun. What for I'm sure that you can guess. =]

very silly question about Mesoamericarda by Pippa's Ghost on 2015-07-01 00:04:00 UTC Reply

There's one big problem with the theory. The only place where we've found actual hobbit remains is in Flores, Indonesia, which puts the Shire in the Undying Lands. That can't be right, can it...?
Language! by Huinesoron on 2015-06-25 14:45:00 UTC Reply

Sneakily, you've got a name which can be translated twice - by literal meaning, and by idiomatic meaning (yes, I did have to look it up).

'Scape-grace', 'one who escapes from grace', can be rendered directly into Quenya as Usilissë, 'escaping (sweetness >) grace' (or more technically Usilissello, to get the 'from' in there, but that's way too long). It's probably dual-meaning - both 'escaping from grace' and 'grace escapes from'. ;)

Sindarin doesn't have words directly glossed 'escape' or 'grace'. I went with 'bliss', which cross-references to 'fortune == final bliss'. So you end up as Drevanadh, 'flees from fate'. Sounds like a name for Turin. ^^

Adunaic I've decided to go with a less-literal translation, simply because of how poetic it is: Ayaddazûlada, 'went eastward' (ie, away from Numenor and Aman). Seriously, say that a few times out loud - a-YAD-da-zu-LAD-da.

As for the Black Speech: Sauron loves to switch things around. So instead of escaping from grace, you would instead run to the Shadow: Uburzum, 'to darkness'.

(Because I'm always willing to trade for more languages. ^^)

The theory/setting/whatnot is entirely up for interpretation: the only fact asserted in it is 'Middle-earth was in the Americas'. I carefully wrote two sensible-sounding viewpoints in the 'threads', so people wouldn't read Word-Of-God into it.

The fact that Numenor was the mythical sunken continent is pretty inevitable - it was also Atlantis (just look at the words!), but its location was misunderstood by the elf zombies of Greece.

Pacific Islanders I'd have to look into the timelines. I know Hawai'i/the Meneltarma was resettled about AD 1, but I think the others are fairly archaic? That would imply that they're either lost Numenorean colonies, or elves - possibly from the Twilit Isles. It's all up for interpretation. ^_^

hS

And the less literal versions: by Huinesoron on 2015-06-25 15:43:00 UTC Reply

The best word I can come up with for 'rascal' in Quenya is Yaiwë, 'mockery' or 'scorn'. It works okay as a standalone name. It also has a direct Sindarin cognate, Iaew, but I don't think that works as a name. Hêniaew or Iaewchen (both 'scorn-child') would kind of work, though they don't taste terribly nice. It might be best to concede to cliche and take Iaewen, 'scorn-maiden'.

For Adunaic, you can have a nice short one: 'Nûph' simply means 'fool'. In the Black Speech, I know what name others would call a scape-grace: Skai is simply an unglossed insult.

And I forgot Valarin! :O That's unforgivable. The literal translation is Akašândušamanûðân, 'the Law marred'. The colloquial... hmm, how about Rušurulu, 'fire-water', implying a contradiction? Or you could have Urušebeth/Igašebeth, 'fire/heat-air' - which is to say, someone who speaks a lot of it!

(Valarin is always the hardest one, simply because the corpus is so tiny. Though actually, I can come up with at least three ways to call someone an idiot in Valarin, so maybe not...)

hS
And by way of response, gue'la: by Ayaddazulada on 2015-06-25 15:43:00 UTC Reply

Tau is... awkward, as far as conlangs go. There aren't that many words, and because GW is and continues to be GW, the construction and even vocabulary are somewhat inconsistent. That said, I was able to make a stab at it. Now, Tau naming conventions work thus: you get your caste, your planet of origin, and then a personal name. The closest I could find to a bird of any description is y'eldi, a nickname given to skilled pilots that means "winged one", and Shaserra is a personal name translating to Shadowsun, so I went with the longer part of the name as the bit meaning shadow. May I now present:

Gue'por'vre Fio'gue Y'eldiserra
(Human-Magister of Earth Shadow-of-winged-ones)

Now, because you did so many:

In the tongue of the Eldar, which has a bit more flesh on its (wraith)bones, I can cobble together a descriptor which you might care to use as a name. It is this:

Fhaisorr Amon
(Shadow-eagle, which sounds like it could well be an Aspect of Khaine)

And that's... pretty much it. Sorry I can't do more. =]

So how would you address a Tau? by Huinesoron on 2015-06-25 15:58:00 UTC Reply

I'm guessing the whole name wouldn't be used every time! Would people use the personal name, or just the caste until they (bother to) get to know you, or what?

Fhaisorr Amon is... pretty cool, actually. It sounds like the sort of name you put a bit of a hiss into. Definitely a wicked incarnation of me.

~

To throw another language into the mix: what about Grelvish? Following their grammar rules, Halyaenthoron ('shade of eagle') is my name; Scapegrace would literally be Rimatuulo'vanim ('runs from beauty'), or more figuratively Amadahin ('foolish child').

But I highly recommend not using Grelvish. They'll probably execute you for getting it wrong.

hS

That's actually pretty easy. by Scapegrace on 2015-06-25 16:03:00 UTC Reply

For Tau you don't know, you use either the caste name (if they're from your caste), or Tau'fann if they're from a different one. More familiar Tau use their personal names. Think of one's caste as like the family name. =]

[Head-tilt] by Huinesoron on 2015-06-25 16:06:00 UTC Reply

So they use the caste-name only when they share it? You say it's like a family name, but I don't know any families who refer to each other entirely by surname.

It seems like it would cause a lot of confusion when a group of them get together. 'Oh, yeah, I was talking to Smith about how Smith and Smith were picking on Smith... isn't that right, Smith?'

hS

GW is GW. by Scapegrace on 2015-06-25 16:11:00 UTC Reply

Their approach to language is weird and contradictory. I'm just going off what's in the various novels and lexicons online. =]