The PPC Posting Board - Latest posts

"Which is why we shouldn't stay in rooms longer than we absolutely have to."

"I do wish for us to become stronger, but given how long it has taken us to explore just four rooms, I feel we may safely sacrifice a bit of strength to be done within the next year."

I was far too passive during the events on the chat, and the fact they disturbed me should have prompted me to act more, not stay away.

I wish you well for the future.

No mods. I happen to think that our anarchic culture mostly works. In general, we do a good job of being friendly, calling each other on our bad behavior, and being remorseful and honestly trying to improve when we screw up. If you look around all the threads that spawned from this whole mess, you'll find piles of our community working as it should.

That doesn't mean we're perfect. The entire witch-hunt in the Discord is a prime example of that. While that was going on, many of us stopped acting the way we should and either turned into an angry mob or stood there and didn't call anyone out on what they were doing. We need to examine how and why that happened, and make serious efforts to not do things like that again. Hopefully we can learn appropriate lessons from what went down that will make the PPC an even better place to hang out on the Internet.

Now, on my ban. I'm going to do something that I don't remember happening before, and vote for my own ban. I'm in favor of my being banned for 1-3 months, either from the Discord or from participation in the PPC generally. There have to be consequences for what I did. It doesn't feel right for me to get away with just a resignation after what I did, even if it was a mistake. The vote seems to be (at the time of writing) split exactly evenly between banning me or not, so it looks like i might be going harder on myself than the community is.

Now, on the Discord, this isn't a proposal for massive changes. However, I'm now (especially since July's post got me reading some of the old discussions about the IRC and drama there) slightly concerned about the possibility of a cultural split between PPCers who visit the chat often and PPCers who don't. I figure one small thing that can be done to try and make sure we don't get this is for, every once in a while, people to "best of" the chat and summarize the longer-lasting jokes/trends onto the Board and/or Wiki. (We already have a wiki page for chat quotes from back in the IRC days, might be worth revitalizing).

To give an example of what I'm on about, Maslab has a reputation in chat for puns. That reputation was long-standing and widespread enough that we ended up adding Maslab's avatar (a picture of a fox) as a custom emoticon on the Discord. So, if you're in chat and you make a pretty good (or pretty bad, but what's the difference?) pun, you're likely to get your message reacted to with a :Maslab: . Now some of y'all who don't really visit chat know a bit more about what we've been up to in there other than starting mobs and drama.

I agree.

I think we should be able to hunt across multiple fandoms and sites, but I like the time limit idea. It's too easy to just plunge into a glut of fifteen year old LOTR badfic Jay and Acacia could have taken on. Seven days seem a little restrictive to me, though. How about in the last month?

1) No mods. In addition to the issues others have raised, I feel mods are ill-suited to our community. They depend, I think, on a certain level of detachment from all parties involved in a dispute. That lack of bias seems rather more difficult to attain in a close knit community like ours. Perhaps they could be made to work, but would they work so much better than what we have now as to justify the change? I don't think so. Then again, I've never really been part of a community that uses them, so perhaps this is simply my inexperience talking.

2) No bans. As I mentioned in my previous post, if disciplinary action must be taken, I don't think bans are the right tool.

3) I can't think of anything we can do to improve the Discord, so I'll abstain from that vote.

The only real place my opinions differ is with regard to point 1). I think we need some kind of mod that is more than The Nameless Admin, but less than a full out mod, with the power both on the Board and in the Discord. I will admit I don't have any ideas for exactly how we achieve that at that moment though. But I do think if it can be achieved it would be a good thing.

"Then by that logic we should stay together, that way we all partake in the same 'test.' "

By that I mean, who do you mean by 'everyone involved with going after July.' Do you mean everyone who actively took part in the chat at that time? Those who explicitly wanted something 'done' about July (I hate how that sounds but I can't work out a better way of putting it)? Or is there some in between/other way of grouping people I haven't taken into consideration? I am merely wondering how you define that as I can (as seen) think of at least two ways it could be meant.

He glanced at everybody else in the room, then said, "I believe we are capable of handling any particular room on our own, even if there were only three of our number. Furthermore, this dungeon appears to have been established as something between a test and a training regimen. By setting obstacles in our path, I believe the dragon intends for us to become strong enough to challenge him."

Because I'm antsy and maths calms me down.

-Permaban: 2
-6 month ban: 4
-Long-term ban (unspecified): 1
-1-3 month ban: 6
-TOTAL BANS: 13

-NO BAN: 13

-Explicit abstain: 3

-TOTAL VOTES: 29

And drawing purely from this thread:

-Mods: 1
-No Mods: 7

hS

... it was a reference to my post on moderators. If so, I don't think it's a fair characterisation of what I said, but I can see how it could be read that way.

hS

What incidents, exactly, does "No, let's keep everything the same just for the sake of everything being the same" refer to?

'Cause the last I checked, we've revised the Permission system several times and revised the Constitution several times in response to problems, not to mention gradual shifts in preferences and attitudes toward various things over time, in-universe and out.

I suspect you're talking solely about the fact that we're still using this Board, which you are on record as more or less hating, in which case you're being rather disingenuous with that accusation.

~Neshomeh

1) No mods. What we need is a culture change, and those don't happen top-down. Additionally, there's no way to ensure that mods don't engage in this behavior also.

2) No bans. If Tomash wants to take a leave of absence, I support his decision, but if the person harmed by this doesn't think he should be banned, I think it's a bad idea - partly because of the "symbolic" nature of it. We'd be doing this to make it feel like someone had been punished, which is not a substitute for fixing the problem. Tomash made a mistake- the first time he's done something like this - and moved quickly to repair the damage once he realized it was a mistake.

3) The Discord. Keep it. Have an honest, serious conversation with the people involved in this about what went wrong, why, and how they can move as individuals to stop it happening again. Again, what we need is a culture change. And, preferably, also, not one mod to step in, but for everyone involved to say "Wait, we're rushing this out of emotion. Let's take a step back and let people's heads cool."

I'm sorry, Tomash. I just feel this is right. I wish it weren't the case.

—doctorlit is torn between friends right now

No mods, no bans.

There is clearly no consensus on bans, I cannot support any such action.

I do, however, propose that we find resources on recognizing abusive behaviors (especially on the internet, but also abuse and bullying theory in general) and have some requirement that oldbies / pgs / discorders / etc study them. That's been a common thread in the last several messes, I think that increasing our literacy on the matter is a necessary thing.

1. No mods. If we have a problem with people failing to take personal responsibility, explicitly giving all the responsibility to someone else will not fix it.
   
   2. 3-month ban for Tomash (which I don't think needs to be IP-enforced, for the record). I like you, I forgive you, but take a break.
   
   2.5. 3-month Discord silence for everyone involved with going after July. If we can't make everyone take a break from it, I suppose this will do instead.
   
   3. Guys, just make sure you've each learned your lessons here. Think things through. When emotions run high, step back. Don't be enablers. Don't be an echo chamber or a mob. No mods or rules can help with those things.
   
   ~Neshomeh

1- is your apology likely to make July feel at ease or upset if she sees it, given your past interactions?

2- is your apology, therefore, when you examine the likely outcome, for July's benefit or yours?

3- consider that our society has a terrible habit of making women bear the burden of men's feelings, even in cases where they are trying to actively disengage. (For example, in the women's day post, your desire to be an ally took precedence over one individual woman's desire to not interact with you.)

4- in the future, when someone tells you to leave them alone, apologize ONCE, and then . . . leave them alone. Period. No redemption arc, no reminders, no continued getting other people to mediate, no continued and protracted apologies. Just end it there. If she hasn't accepted by now, she's not going to, and this only serves the purpose of making her more uncomfortable.

I think 1-3 months is appropriate, now that I've thought it over and read what has been said.

-Phobos

"No. Splitting up is the worst thing we could do," she said. "We are splitting our combined resources over multiple parties. This can only lead to trouble. From what I've heard we've been okay so far, but one botched cast or lapse in judgement could seriously cripple us." She took a breath. "We should stock up now and keep moving, raiding the rooms we do come across. We can clear the rest of the dungeon after we finish off the dragon."

1) No mods, don't think it will help.
2) I say we ban Tomash for maybe two, three months? Not a long time, but just for a while.
3) In some of the previous threads, someone suggested closing the discord for a while. (I think it was Neshomeh?) I think this might work.
Also, Maslab and Delta Juliette are my choice for new discord mods.

... before approaching Uriel. He considers the map, then shakes his head. "I believe we should try to explore this dungeon as fully as possible," he says. "However, we have been too slow in our explorations. Perhaps it would be best if we split into at least two teams. One team could advance through Room 2, then through Rooms 9 and 8, while the others pass through Rooms 3, 7, and 10, with the parties meeting up at Room 11. We can review our experiences there and determine if splitting up makes us more effective." He looks around at the other members of the party. "Does this seem acceptable to you?"

Centorea, who is trotting over to the rack of magical items, shrugs. "Doesn't matter to me," she says. Davug glances at Virro, and the Elf nods. He knows what he means. Davug nods back, and then also approaches the magic items. He begins to search for something that will either increase his defense or allow him to defend those around him, while Centorea begins looking for something that will boost her healing abilities.