Subject: Well, I didn't get very far.
Author:
Posted on: 2017-02-01 16:46:00 UTC
About halfway through the first real scene of Unearthly Child. Sindarin continues to be murder on the brain, and the lack of a whole bunch of concepts makes for some pretzeled sentences. Still, here you go:
Man I Nestradren: Hên Al-geveneb
(With bonus re-translation on the right hand side.)
hS
Hi! I'm Ffwydriad, and I used to be a member some four or more years ago. Recently, a rather random series of links through the backwaters of the internet led me back, and I'm honestly overjoyed that the community is still around. Currently I'm reading and rereading pretty much all of the mission fics I can find, but I felt it would be proper to introduce myself.
Hopefully I'll actually keep my attention span focused enough to stay around and actually start writing this time!
I have a special gift that I got especially for you!
*pokes through boxes*
*digs through a pile of old holiday cards that should have been thrown out years ago*
*brushes layer of dust aside*
It's a beautiful copy of my favorite book, The Littlest Elf! I'm sure you'll enjoy it!
--Key hands you the book and runs
Well the book is gorgeous, and it sure looks like a very happy tale. I hope I'll enjoy reading it as well!
Jesa: Here, have this interesting Key. I found it laying around.
....
*Totally not suspicious*
Waltz: Here's a Kuriboh! Be careful though.... they tend to have explosive tempers. Keep away from eyes.
Sorry for laying around suspiciously. I'll find myself a couch.
--Key may have strange nicknames, but she is not an appropriate newbie gift
of keys I have ever personally come into contact with, Key, I will give you this: you are certainly the most interesting one.
I probably wouldn't use you to keep my socks safe, and it might be a bit weird if I took you to a key cutter to make a spare copy of you, and it would be even weirder if I kept you hidden under the mat in front of the door for emergencies, but know this: as keys go, you are very, very, very, very, very very very interesting.
Wow! Mystery key! That's not ominous at all!
Well, I'm certainly not suspicious of this at all.
Hello, Welsh person! I think you're Welsh. Are you Welsh?
Well, Welsh person (assuming I'm right and you are in fact Welsh), have a present. You can't make me be unkind to you!
Your present: a full set of dice! They come in all your favorite shapes: d3/4, d6, d8, 2d10 (your probability dice), d12, and a d20. The pattern is yours to choose! Do be mindful of when, how, and most importantly why you use them, though - dice have been known to have... certain amounts of power, when placed in the right (or wrong, as the case may be) hands.
Awesome! I didn't have a full matching set until now! Thank you!
I'm not from Wales, but my name is.
:)
Have a purple glitter gel pen. Your agents aren't allowed to use it on reports.
That is a good thing, because there's no way I would share a glitter gel pen with my agents, especially a purple one. I'm keeping this for myself.
Oh, and also have a Sindarin dub (recorded by Elven and Dunadan Agents) of I Dalechoth (all seven episodes).
I Dhalec: AB-HIR, I 'WEL-WEN PATH-RATH-A NAN GOEL OD NIST RU-IN VI-IN!
Elloth: Avgaro sen!
I Nestadren: E vregol dhagel!
I Dhalec: I 'LA-NNOL!
Dalek: Tomorrow, the atmosphere will be bombarded by the radiation from our nuclear reactors.
Susan: Why are you doing this?
The Doctor: That's sheer murder!
Dalek: No! Extermination!
hS
I now have the very pressing need to translate the whole script. And maybe the entire show. Because reasons.
Seriously, it took me about 15 minutes to do those four lines, and I had to butcher them to do so. (Though I did get to coin a Sindarin phrase for 'nuclear reactor', so that was cool.) Plus, did you know there are no quotable lines in The Daleks? And super duper long.
Though frankly, saying that, I'm almost tempted to work on An Unearthly Child just for the Sindarin practice... race you? :D
hS
PS: Trivia time! The following alternate versions of Doctor Who have been canonised in one form or another as part of the PPC multiverse:
-Doctor Who itself.
-Master Who, coined by Tawaki.
-The Unnamed Academian, the Steampunk version invented by me (last scene).
-Who's Your Doctor?, a very shippy version referenced by me.
-Doc Who, from a very noir 'verse by PoorCynic.
I think I Nestadren I... would fit right in. ('The Doctor Who...'; there don't appear to be any Sindarin question words, so we're using the relative pronoun that/who/which. I did my best.)
Oh, and welcome back! If I end up writing I Nestadren I: Hên Al-geveneb, I'm blaming it entirely on you, Tawaki, and Scapegrace. ~hS
I Nestadren I: Hên Al-geveneb translates to...?
Which I thought was pretty clear from context?
hS
Honestly my Sindarin is subpar, but I've been proven to have masochistic tendencies when it comes to translation.
I am willing and likely unable to race you on that, but given that I've got the next two days off I'll be willing to try. :)
As for the title - if I'm right, there are Sindarin question words, Man being "what" or "who", so perhaps "Man I Nestradren" for "Who is the Doctor" instead? I'm uncertain, the fact there's no is/are in Sindarin always throws me off.
That multiverse theory is wonderful by the way, as are the alternate Doctor Who versions. If only I had the time to rewrite the entire series four times over...
Get your translate on, and we'll meet back here to compare on... Wednesday?
I'm going to do Unearthly Child. You can do the same (which would be a direct race, plus it would be fascinating to see how differently we translated it), or you can pick your own preferred episode (which would arguably be a more interesting read). Or you can ignore it as a ridiculous idea. ;)
You're right about man; I didn't know about it, because I'm using the Ardalambion Sindarin wordlist, and the Turin Wrapper which gives it was only published in 2013. Cool. :D So Man I Nestadren works, and has the added bonus that since since there's no 'to be' verb, it can also mean "Who, the Doctor". Double meanings are fun.
Anyway - see you in a couple of days. Let's see if I can get past the first scene...
hS
PS: I won't be translating stage directions - just the words that are spoken.
About halfway through the first real scene of Unearthly Child. Sindarin continues to be murder on the brain, and the lack of a whole bunch of concepts makes for some pretzeled sentences. Still, here you go:
Man I Nestradren: Hên Al-geveneb
(With bonus re-translation on the right hand side.)
hS
Link here. =]
You managed to make it sound like you actually knew what you were saying. ^_^ It also sounded very, very Welsh, which... well, makes sense, considering.
Very well done!
hS
Yeah, what I did was dig up the relevant bits of Unearthly Child, watch the performances given, and try and get the voicework to match the performances given. It took me a few goes, but the end product is about as good a match as I was able to get.
Thanks again for the compliments. It means a lot, coming from someone who lives and breathes Tolkien. =]
I have been faced with the friendly reminder I am unable to do two things. One is write in Sindarin. The other is formatting in Google Docs.
Here is mine . Warnings for a large amount of Sindarin grammatical errors and improper lenision (which i still can't get the hang on) as well as the mess that happens when nice, orderly columns are put through the Google publishing process.
At the very least, horrible as my translation can be, I managed to finish the first two real scenes. I also coined an (unused) phrase for the Tardis: Lú Ar Narnen Genediad Athra Menel (Time and Related Measurements Through Heavens)or for short: the LANGAM.
It's growing on me.
Because I have to start somewhere.
Barbara Wright: Barbara comes from 'barbarian', wright obviously means someone who makes things.
hS's version: Uanuiel Tân. 'Uanuiel' is a cludge from uanui+iel, 'monstrous woman'. 'Tân' is 'Maker', and forms the second syllable of Cirdan's name. (Both taken straight from the Ardalambion wordlist.)
Ffwydriad's version: Edel Thavron. 'Edel' is purportedly Sindarin for 'stranger', but the source doesn't reference anything. This source gives 'Othol' as the Sindarin for 'stranger', and references PE17. This source gives 'Ethelion' as a translation of Peregrin (= wanderer), and I know Sindarin likes to alter the first vowel in words with endings, so 'Othol' or 'Othel' makes sense. A feminine name could be 'Etheliel', which might well contract to 'Ethiel'.
'Thavron' does indeed mean wright, and I feel silly for not looking it up directly. [Facepalm]
Best version: I'm gonna go with Ffwydriad here and give Ethiel Thavron as the best translation.
Ian Chesterton: Ian is the Scottish version of John, which comes from Hebrew 'Yochanan', meaning 'G*d is Gracious'. Chesterton I'm pretty sure goes back to Caster+Town, or 'Fort-Village'.
hS's version: Eruan Garthobel. I glossed Ian as Eruan, 'Gift of God', which... is wrong. [Facepalm] I'm on firmer ground with the surname Garthobel, which means Stronghold Enclosed-Dwelling - pretty much exactly the meaning in the original.
Ffwydriad's version: Eruainon Echadion. Eru we know. 'ainon'... the best I can do is this being Quenya for 'son of holiness'. The namelist gives 'Erufael', 'God is just', while the Parf Edhellen site gives 'raen' for 'sweet-faced' as its best approximation for 'gracious' (also from PE17). That would give 'Eruraen', which hurts to say. Maybe that's the source of Eruainon, with the R vanishing...
Echadion... hmm. 'Echad' for camp is sourced to Unfinished Tales, where it's part of a placename (Echad i Sedryn, Camp of the Faithful). Valid (I'm now irritated that Ardalambion doesn't give it; I may have to transfer alliegence to the Parf Edhellen.) Then you've got a 'son of' on the end, which isn't what the name means.
Best version: I think I have to go with the namelist + the accurate translation, and pick Erufael Garthobel here. Bonus points for the Doctor being able to call him 'Parthobel' and have it still be a word.
Susan Foreman: Susan means lily, by way of a Hebrew word which now means 'rose' as well, and an Egyptian one meaning 'lotus'. A foreman is a sort of practical manager: they stand between the people doing the actual work, and the management above.
hS's version: Elloth Taid. 'Elloth' is just 'flower', though it feels like it could mean 'star-blossom' - which describes a lily very nicely. We might actually want to go over to 'Meril' here, which literally means 'rose'. Taid is a word meaning second-in-command.
Ffwydriad's version: Elloth Hîrbenn. Elloth we know. Hîrbenn is a construct, Hîr+benn, 'lord-man'. 'benn' is actually an archaic word for husband, which has slipped over to just meaning man. In constructs it should actually show up as either 'ben' or 'ven', which suggests to me that we should avoid it. Instead, we can use the archaic word dîr, which shows up in names as -nir or -dir.
Of course, we can't exactly use 'Hirdir', so now we need another word for a mid-level leader. Hmm... how about taid? :D Taidnir works perfectly well as a spoken name, though I admit it looks a bit clunky. Failing that, 'Herdir' is a genuine Sindarin word for 'master', as used to mean 'Mister'. And the idea of the Doctor's junkyard being named 'Some Bloke's Yard' tickles me.
Best version: I just can't forsake the star-flower. Elloth Herdir it is.
hS
(PS: inb4 'Susan is the Master!'. Oops...)
So it turns out Eruan (Gift of God) is closer than I thought? That's good, I quite like it. ^_^
As for the lily - yeah, I did. It's weird when the internet gets things so blatantly wrong. At least I stuck with Elloth for Susan, so dodged that one.
Thanks again!
hS
I can't believe I didn't realize 'ton' was 'town' and now I feel ridiculous.
Honestly, I should probably have checked through my names a few more times. Or maybe not relied on a namelist that, on their two different lists gave very different names. I've got a very keen foresight.
(I'm not saying Susan is the Master, but I have to admit, we don't actually know what she was doing before she ran off with the Doctor, or what she did after he left. And, of course, there's the whole Other thing to think about. Very suspicious.)
First off, I'm very impressed that you got so much of it done! I find Sindarin an awful grind, so well done.
On the formatting: I actually didn't bother with columns. My version is a carefully-hidden table, with cell breaks to keep things lined up. It sends the whole thing wildly over to the left, but keeps it organised.
On lentition: I had to put myself together a little checklist of when it's needed, which I left in place at the bottom of my script. Feel free to crib it.
Rather than start... well, technically it's betaing, isn't it? Rather than start betaing your script, I'd like to ask where your vocabulary and grammar comes from. My preferred source is Ardalambion, but I can see you're using words that don't show up there ('Edel' for stranger, for instance). You also didn't use the common fanfic term 'daeradar' for 'grandfather', so it doesn't look like you're working from a fanficcy dictionary. What are your sources?
(Ardalambion Sindarin wordlist and grammar is based on David Salo's work, and is fairly comprehensive. I'm not saying it's right, so if you have a different source I'm definitely curious.)
hS
I'm impressed I got that much done as well, and that's a smarter move on formatting. I forget what docs can do.
My wordlist was Hiswelókë's Sindarin-English dictionary, with some additional use of this word look up, which is why there's one or two Quenya words (mainly Totter lane) worked to fit in Sindarin standard.
My grammar was here along with some spare online lessons I went through a while back.
Edel comes from Arwen-Undomiel from their list of translated names. I also used some of their simple phrases as well.
I actually thought about using some form of 'grand' and 'father' but it seemed kind of awkward for me. I also thought about changing the Quenya word for grandfather to Sindarin, but I don't actually know how to go about that. If daeradar is common though, I'll probably end up using that when I eventually go back through, finish the episode.
So when can we expect the Sindarin edition of The 120 Days Of Sodom? =]
But what it sounds like is the world's most oldschool christmas carol.
On the fifth day of Sodom, my true love gave to me
Fiiiire aaaaand brimstoooone...!
hS
And let's leave it at that.
You'd better hope I don't actually finish it, or you'll end up creating an actual dub...
hS
Sindarin is not my forte. I guarantee there are at least a couple of errors in there.
hS
Thank you for the gift! I'm sure I'll love it.
On the other hand I spent around two hours searching through four different dictionaries trying to figure out what Dalechoth translated to. Then I noticed it started with Dalek and right now I'm assuming you're talking about "The Daleks" which just so happens to be my favorite Hartnell episode.
I have conflicting information on whether initial d- from Primitive Quendian d is subject to the soft mutation or not.
Cheers, mate. Hope you'll enjoy your stay! Here, since I'm at work and unable to get my regular gift, have a McMuffin
First coffee, now a McMuffin - is this a conspiracy to make me eat breakfast?
Thanks a lot!
woop woop woop woop
WELCOME IMPENDING IN 3 SECONDS
WELCOME IMPENDING IN 2 SECONDS
WELCOME IMPENDING IN 1 SECOND
uh hi hello.
Welcome back to the PPC, the most fabulous corner of the backwaters of the internet!
We have the backiest waters of the backwaters around here, I can assure you. You will not be disappointed.
Weeeelcome!
beep beep
I agree, this place is fabulous.
By heavens!
By Steve Irwin!
By Jim Johnson!
I forgot to give you a gift!
I gift upon you: a robotic copy of myself, designed specifically to give you gifts on your command.
This will never happen again, I assure you.
Just don't get water in his joints. Or on his skin. Or within 5 metres of him. Don't take him out on humid days, too. And don't spit around him, either. If you need to drink, do it in a completely different house away from him. Don't even say the word 'water' around him.
But, other than that: this will never happen again.
Does this mean your gift is infinite gifts?
Also, robots are great.
Well, as long as there's no water involved.
Then it's no gifts, and that is as far the opposite of infinite gifts as I can imagine.
And, yes, robots are great!
Have a video of one of DARPA's finest - the one, the only, the myth, the legend: Atlas.
[obligatory robot revolution joke]
[canned laughter]
Here's a 17-foot Fourth Doctor scarf! Truth be told, I got this as a Newbie Gift myself, but it would look weird as a wall decoration, and since you're also a Doctor Who fan...Enjoy! :)
I'm not saying I'll never take this off, but I've definitely got one of my new favorite pieces of apparel! Finally, a scarf big enough to hide jelly babies, poison darts, and a companion or three inside!
Have one of my own shed feathers and a complimentary kit of Spikes!
Thank you for this kind gift, I'm certain they'll be very useful.
Welcome (back) aBoard! I wasn't around when you were there the last time either, but I also hope you're gonna stick around!
Anyway, here's your returnbie gift! Sorry, it's physically impossible to type a description of it.
Well that's a - I agree, physically impossible to describe. Thank you very much!
Please have a pot of black-hole coffee. Now, would you mind talking about your fandoms? I guess you had the 'mandatory' readings done for a long time, so no question about that. Oh and welcome (back) to the madhouse.
Oh! Yes! Fandoms are a thing that I have! The biggest for me is Marvel, mainly the comics but also the cartoons and movies. Lord of the Rings, Doctor Who, Star Trek, Voltron, Homestuck, A Series of Unfortunate Events, Discworld, The X-Files, Miraculous Ladybug, and a large selection of Anime and Manga as well.
This is so weird. I was completely obsessed with the series for much of my preadolescent life (I think I still have my terrible nine-year old fan art). And now I'm slowly but surely learning that this is an actual fandom, which can be listed alongside typically nerdy things like Discworld* and Star Trek**. I am utterly stupefied, a word which here means "startled and feeling an equal mix of excitement to find people who enjoy the same things I do and fear that my childhood will be forever ruined by badly-written porn starring Count Olaf."
Or do you just mean the Netflix adaptation? Or the movie *shudders*?
--Key
*Has been top of my to-read list for years.
**Watching in chronological order. On season three of TOS and suffering going strong!
Hello, and welcome aBoard! For your newbie gift, take this plate of freshly-made SPaGhetti!
Good to have you back with us. Unfortunately, you were before my time so I don't recognize the name, but I hope you'll stick around!
I'm glad to be here and hope the same. Thank you for the gift. SPaGhetti is my favorite literary-based pasta dish.