PG hat is off, but Re. your activity...

Subject: PG hat is off, but Re. your activity...
Author: Neshomeh
Posted on: 2022-05-12 04:21:39 UTC

If you want an example of what "quite active" looks like, look at Linstar. He jumped in feet first, asking questions, commenting on other people's stories and characters, engaging with the ongoing PPC+20 event, and creating discussions and games that have drawn other people in. That's the kind of stuff we mean when we talk about activity.

Now, this is just my impression, and I'll be happy to hear it if other people disagree with me, but I'd characterize your activity on the Board as relating primarily to getting Permission and discussing/RPing your own characters (and, well, a Gary Stu once). I don't see a whole lot of engagement with other people's topics or PPC culture (e.g., you lurked for how long and only just caught on to NM&NMs?). The one time I recall you commenting on a story post (mine, for full disclosure), your comment wasn't even about the story, but about a piece of fanart attached to it. You say you've beta'd for anyone who has asked, but I don't see a thread where you've volunteered since your first Permission request two months ago. And the one time we were in a Discord conversation at the same time, in #writing, I saw you talking about your characters rather than the characters in the writing samples under discussion at the time. I grant that that "here's what I'd do" is one way to give advice, but unfortunately, it corroborates what I perceive as a pattern of focusing on yourself first, others second if at all.

That makes me nervous about you having the keys to our sandbox. The ability to play well with others is important. I'm not personally convinced that I've seen you do that yet. For that reason, I support Novastorme's decision at this time.

Again, though, I'd love to hear it if anyone else has seen something I've missed. Maybe it's another story in the Discord, and that one conversation I was in was an outlier; it's possible, since I'm not in there all that often. Anyone care to weigh in?

~Neshomeh

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Paging Sierpinksi - Re: Permission Slip, Take 3. (Hat is firmly on) by Novastorme on 2022-05-10 18:54:23 UTC Writing Permission request Reply

First of all, I've got to apologise for taking so long to getting around to doing this, life, especially with work, has been beyond hectic for the last month or so and it's really taken a toll on me. That being said, things are starting to look up and so I've been able to give your Permission Request the full attention it deserves. I'm making this a separate post as your Permission Request is now about halfway down the second page, and not a lot of people go beyond Page 1 so I wanted to make sure this was seen.

Your characters and prompts have improved, it feels like there's more comedy in them, I feel like there's less errors and I like what I'm reading and seeing with your characters and how you've written the in the PPC continua. I'm not going to say it's perfect, but it's at a good level. To the point that personally I think, in other circumstances, I would be happy to push the big (imaginary) green button and say the magical words of Permission Granted.

Unfortunately that's not quite the case. I've got two problems with your Permission Request.

1) There's still no sign of a Beta (or multiple Betas), while as I've said I feel like your characters have improved and your overall writing is better, it's better to have a Beta and to have a Beta and work with them shows us that a) you're able to and b) you've been able to get your work into it's best possible state. And this is something that is mentioned in the Permission article on the Wiki and I feel like it is something that should be followed.

2) Your badfic. "Woody got Wood." Oh boy, I am going to have to use a load of brain bleach to get that out of my head. That being said, I did have a look at it. It's 300 words long (or just over), incredibly NSFW (as you've mentioned) and I'm going to be honest, it does not feel like the sort of 'fic (bad or otherwise) that you could make a convincing Mission out of that has the humour and style of a normal PPC Mission. That added to the fact it certainly feels more like a crack/trollfic than anything else makes me wary of anyone taking it on as a Mission, and certainly not as a first one. Also, can you include a link to your badfic in the Permission Request so that people don't have to go searching for it (for those who really want to look at it, one can find it in the Pit).

I'm going to be honest here, I'm feeling really conflicted at the moment, your writing is good but your overall request is just missing those couple of little bits that would make me comfortable to grant you permission, to the point that I don't quite want to deny you permission either, but I am going to have to say Permission Denied. I would say this, get a Beta, spend a small time with them really polishing up your prompts and your character bios, get a better 'fic to mission come back once more and we'll see then. Please do not lose heart, your are so nearly there and I would like to see Noman and Winifrey in action in the PPC (and I would happily Beta a mission if you wanted it), but not at this time.

Apologies, and good luck.

Nova.

Final Points (EDITED WITH THE REVISED SLIP - FEATURING CREDIT FOR BETA AND NEW MISSION TARGET.) by Sierpinksi on 2022-05-11 20:00:19 UTC Edited Reply

BefuddledBookworm did in fact Beta this slip: I forgot to make that clear. My apologies.

For point 2, I've got a bunch of other badfics I could go after instead, I compiled a big list way back when. There's Ashura Satoshi Ketchum Senju Uzumaki Namikaze the aura pokemon shinobi (sic) (charges are long and gross. Decent SPaG but a terrible Stu.) that I found, it's quite a squickfic. I could also go after The Project And The Plumber (less offensive, but still a terrible, paper Stu. The textbook Gary Stu, plenty of canon-breaking and over-the-top wish fulfillment), The Split (notes recorded for absolutely awful SPaG), L Is Real (notes recorded it as senseless violence), among many others. Or I could find some unclaimed badfic here or elsewhere.

I wanted to open on something very short to ease into writing for the PPC, but can understand if it was too short.

I think I should receive Permission at this point, I've been quite active, I've beta'd for everyone who's made a request, I did have a beta for this (and just forgot to credit them, my apologies) and I can easily swap the badfic.

There's not much more I can do for the Permission Request to make it more acceptable, other than change my first badfic report and specify my beta, which I did.

Here is the completed request.

Right, down to business... by Novastorme on 2022-05-13 00:20:49 UTC Reply

Thanks for confirming Befuddled Beta'd for you, and for adding that to the updated Permission Request, that helps a lot.

So, one thing I want to say is that it's not the length of the 'fic itself that was the problem. The length of the 'fic in some ways doesn't matter, it could be fifty words long or fifty thousand, a missionable badfic is a missionable badfic, but not every badfic is missionable, and that one just didn't feel like it could, or would, work for a mission, especially not as a first one.

As to your current badfic choice, could you please get a link for it, I've had a quick search on AO3 and FF.net and can't see it on either.

While, as I've mentioned, length isn't vital for a mission, if you want to ease into writing in the PPC what I would recommend is that you start off with a fairly simple Sue, nothing too extreme or NSFW/squicky or anything like that, just something nice and simple that lets you work through exactly how a PPC mission works and killing a Sue without too much else going on.

I'm going to be honest, it's late, I've been working on this post on and off for most of the evening when I've had time, I'll come back tomorrow (after work), have another sift through things, just take a peek at the badfic if you could get a link on your Permission Request up, and hopefully by that point I'll have come to a decision with regards to this.

Apologies,

Nova

Link to the fic by Sierpinksi on 2022-05-14 20:06:12 UTC Reply

Weirdly, it's been deleted or otherwise rendered unviewable, but I found the full fic in a PROJECT AFTER style mock, where someone would go line-by-line and mock it. If I just ignore the other sporker, I can do a PPC style mission. I won't reuse the original mocker's gags.

Beware, it's a squickfic. HERE. I'd just need someone with some Naruto knowledge to help me iron out the Mission proper, but I do have a hilarious gag I plan on ending this particular one on.

Ok then... by Novastorme on 2022-05-15 11:39:16 UTC Reply

So after a bit of searching I've found the author's profile on Fanfic.net and it looks like they've taken the story down to rewrite it. So here's the problem I have, because the author has taken the 'fic down to rewrite it because of the negative reviews it received (and hopefully to improve it) it is, at the very least, poor form to write a mission on it regardless, given that they've taken it down for the rewrite before you've been able to start the mission on it officially, I would say that it's not missionable at this time. Now if it gets reposted and it's just as bad as before then at that time you could mission it. However at this point in time I do not believe it is appropriate for the 'fic to be missioned, especially as we don't have access to the 'fic in it's original form.

That being said this will then be the second time you've had to re-pick a 'fic to go with this Permission Request, which I can understand is frustrating. If you've got a another badfic to spork for a first mission then let me know and when you update the permission request include the link in the document and I'll have a little look again.

Nova
If it’s a squickfic, I’m not betaing. by Linstar on 2022-05-14 20:56:03 UTC Reply

Sorry.

PG hat is off, but Re. your activity... by Neshomeh on 2022-05-12 04:21:39 UTC Reply

If you want an example of what "quite active" looks like, look at Linstar. He jumped in feet first, asking questions, commenting on other people's stories and characters, engaging with the ongoing PPC+20 event, and creating discussions and games that have drawn other people in. That's the kind of stuff we mean when we talk about activity.

Now, this is just my impression, and I'll be happy to hear it if other people disagree with me, but I'd characterize your activity on the Board as relating primarily to getting Permission and discussing/RPing your own characters (and, well, a Gary Stu once). I don't see a whole lot of engagement with other people's topics or PPC culture (e.g., you lurked for how long and only just caught on to NM&NMs?). The one time I recall you commenting on a story post (mine, for full disclosure), your comment wasn't even about the story, but about a piece of fanart attached to it. You say you've beta'd for anyone who has asked, but I don't see a thread where you've volunteered since your first Permission request two months ago. And the one time we were in a Discord conversation at the same time, in #writing, I saw you talking about your characters rather than the characters in the writing samples under discussion at the time. I grant that that "here's what I'd do" is one way to give advice, but unfortunately, it corroborates what I perceive as a pattern of focusing on yourself first, others second if at all.

That makes me nervous about you having the keys to our sandbox. The ability to play well with others is important. I'm not personally convinced that I've seen you do that yet. For that reason, I support Novastorme's decision at this time.

Again, though, I'd love to hear it if anyone else has seen something I've missed. Maybe it's another story in the Discord, and that one conversation I was in was an outlier; it's possible, since I'm not in there all that often. Anyone care to weigh in?

~Neshomeh

On the activity side of things. by Novastorme on 2022-05-12 18:30:16 UTC Reply

While, I'm no longer on Discord, when I was looking at the previous Permission Request Sierpinski put in I did ask a couple of friends who are on the Discord what Sier's activity was like. Mostly just to check they were active there and I made the decision based on how they'd replied and what I'd seen on the Board. I will admit I perhaps hadn't taken into account what type of activity there was, and it's something I'll keep in mind for the future (sorry), but from what I'd seen and heard there was enough activity for me to tick that bit off so I hadn't been too worried on that part.

Despite having been around for ages and seen plenty of Permission requests come and go, I've still got new things to remember/learn I guess.

Nova
Thanks for using me as an example of activity! I’m flattered. (nm) by Linstar on 2022-05-12 17:04:49 UTC Reply
I have a two cents to put in as well. by TheBefuddledBookworm on 2022-05-12 16:45:18 UTC Reply

Sierpinski has helped me beta the first part of my first mission, which still needs more pounding into shape because I haven't done much work on it in a while. He does tend to be a bit harsh, as Kittyauthor said. I have also seen him active on channels of the Discord besides writing.
I have a bit to add. by Kittyauthor on 2022-05-12 14:07:58 UTC Reply

I can vouch for Sier's activity. From what I've personally observed, he is fairly active in the Discord (or, at least, more active there than on the Board), and he doesn't just talk about his characters (although he does bring up his own writing and his own characters a lot). He participates in #badfic on occasion (I don't know how often, as I have that channel muted), and he and I once had a conversation about how we write vampires. From what I've seen in #badfic, his contribuations are often phrased in what I call "mission bits," with agents reacting to the specific badfic segment. He does talk about his own characters a lot in #writing but usually ties it into the topic. Depending on the topic, it may or may not be useful.

He has offered to beta many of my things (and others' works) via Discord when we ask for them. I have had him beta several of my missions and, while he is a harsh beta, he betas well and seems to know the PPC well.

There are other examples that I cannot think of (and Discord is being stupid with me right now), but Sier is active on Discord, although he often talks about his characters and what he would do in x situation rather than directly answer the question asked (then again, he has answered some questions directly and then gave his characters as an example).

Apologies if this was unwanted. I'll try and access Discord ASAP so that I can think of the other examples.

-kA

Adding to the point. by Kittyauthor on 2022-05-12 14:23:41 UTC Edited Reply

Yeah, he has done more than just talk about his characters. He sometimes discusses origins of things (like how a certain three-headed dog's name is literally Spot this morning), posts memes in the #picsandspam channel... he is fairly active.

I'm assuming I'm slightly biased because #writing is the channel I mostly frequent. The conversation about Sier's own characters is not a outlier when just considering #writing, but it isn't the sole thing he discusses.

I apologize.

-kA, whose phone finally decided that they could access Discord again

(Edit: I was trying to find the "necause" typo Linstar saw and my find on page said "It doesn't exist" until just recently. Whoops!)

Don't apologise, it's OK. by Novastorme on 2022-05-12 18:12:11 UTC Reply

Getting more information is a good thing (in my opinion), I'm not actually on the Discord anymore so having someone who is confirming Sierpinksi's activity on there is helpful. Thanks for doing it.

Nova
Tentative Linstar spellcheck suggestion.... by Linstar on 2022-05-12 17:45:11 UTC Edited Reply

“necause”. That’s all.

As for Sierpinski, I don't frequent Discord and thus have no idea as to his activity there. Here’s to getting Permission. (gives thumbs up)

Activity by Sierpinksi on 2022-05-12 13:04:30 UTC Reply

I'll be a bit more active, but there isn't anything more I can do in terms of altering the slip. I've mostly been on the Discord, the board here often goes a bit slow. I've showed up here every now and then, give me some time and I'll come up with something fun here.

I'm just in a position where I'm not sure what else I could do to get Permission. The slip is said to be up to quality and I've been here a few months now, trending pretty active on the Discord.

I've been relatively busy, but things are clearing up a bit. I'll try to engage on the Board more, it's just there isn't any technical reason I'm being denied.

Link's not working. by Linstar on 2022-05-11 20:29:02 UTC Reply

Your link isn't working. And did you mean "sic" or "fic"?

By the way, I'll beta any non-squicky stories.

I meant [sic]. by Sierpinksi on 2022-05-12 00:22:09 UTC Edited Reply

The label (sic) is written when there are grammatical or spelling errors quoted verbatim. In this instance I was quoting a grammatical error verbatim, as words were not capitalized when they should've been.

I'd need to fish for the links, it's been a long while since I read them. I think I linked Project And The Plumber in the Sue RP board, which I've lost some interest in, especially with my business now.

That wasn't meant to be a link, I just wanted to do square brackets as that's usually how it's presented, but that's code in Markdown and I forgot that.

Ooohhh. I understand now. (nm) by Linstar on 2022-05-12 01:25:32 UTC Reply

I also tried to help beta Sierpinski's request, but I couldn't seem to really get with it. by TheBefuddledBookworm on 2022-05-10 19:35:27 UTC Reply

Because of school and other things happening.

It happens. by Novastorme on 2022-05-10 19:43:28 UTC Reply

Don't worry about it. I know I've had to duck out of betaing stuff before now (once because I forgot my password to my email account).

Nova

I volunteered to beta. by Linstar on 2022-05-10 19:03:27 UTC Reply

As long as it's not the aforementioned Toy Story fic that shall not be named, I'll beta for Sierpinski. Of course, I don't have Permission myself...but there's that.

Any help, Novastorme?

Oh, Sorry. by Novastorme on 2022-05-10 19:41:54 UTC Edited Reply

I saw that you'd volunteered to beta on Sierpinski's Interlude request a couple of threads down, it wasn't obvious/stated that anyone had Beta'd on their actual Permission Request so I had assumed that no one had. If I'm wrong, then I'm sorry, but if you don't mind confirming then I'll take another peek and re-evaluate (or if I've grabbed the wrong end of the stick just let me know, I'm friendly really).

Nova

Correcting some confusion. by Sierpinksi on 2022-05-12 00:23:17 UTC Edited Reply

BefuddledBookworm beta'd my Permission slip, I don't think Linstar had joined at the time. Linstar beta'd my first Interlude, which I've already written up so I can release it immediately after my first Mission. Nobody had seen the opening words for my first Mission draft.

I do remember seeing a Mission for a badfic that was only like 50 words, so I thought the one I found was long enough. I'll go find something else.
Just didn’t notice—there’s nothing of note. by Linstar on 2022-05-10 21:41:46 UTC Edited Reply

Thank you by Novastorme on 2022-05-10 21:45:43 UTC Reply

Don't apologise, I'm aware I get things like that wrong occasionally, thanks for pointing it out.

Of course, with the power of editing it now no longer exists of course, so it's like I never got it wrong in the first place, right?

right?

Nova

No longer exists. (nm) by Linstar on 2022-05-10 22:05:59 UTC Reply

I did not beta that, all I've been given is an interlude. (That I've not gotten around to yet.) by Linstar on 2022-05-10 19:49:52 UTC Edited Reply

Sorry if that's unhelpful. :/

Side note: I'm likely going to be requesting Permission myself in a few days. What advice do you have that could prevent me from having to go through multiple requests?

I'll beta for you if you want, just send the draft through our email thread. (nm) by Sierpinksi on 2022-05-12 00:24:41 UTC Reply

Will do, and thanks. (nm) by Linstar on 2022-05-12 01:27:20 UTC Reply

Ah that makes sense by Novastorme on 2022-05-10 21:44:16 UTC Reply

Thanks Linstar, it's not unhelpful, don't worry about it. Just clarified something I'd got confused in my mind. I know Sierpinski has put a couple of threads on the Board asking for Betas that haven't had too many response but I wasn't certain if you'd agreed to do so on the Discord or something (I'm not on the Discord).

On your side note, as TheBefuddledBookworm has said, get a Beta, go through your request with them a few times to make sure everything's squeaky clean both with the Prompts and your character's bios etc. You can also use the Wiki if you're not sure on how something within the PPC works, or how a 'canon' character would act and make sure you understand that side of things as well (I will always recommend reading TOS as well), and if you're really worrying, there's a very helpful guide on the Permission page of the Wiki that helps: Right Here

I can’t access the Prompt form. by Linstar on 2022-05-10 22:07:23 UTC Edited Reply

Not sure why.

I’m not on the Discord either. Though I am fairly active on the wiki. (As RumbridgeXVolzemort.)

Get a beta reader, and triple check to make sure the SPaG and characterization are right. by TheBefuddledBookworm on 2022-05-10 19:54:13 UTC Reply

My problem when I tried for the first time was SPaG bungling and writing some stuff unrealistically.

If you want, I can beta your request, Linstar.

Isn’t there an official request form with a format to follow? by Linstar on 2022-05-10 21:38:52 UTC Reply

If someone could give an accessible link to it, that’d be great.
I'd love it if you could beta! by Linstar on 2022-05-10 19:58:19 UTC Edited Reply

Particularly since you already have been in an RP with one of my Agents.

I think I’m likely to be decent with SPaG.

Though first I'll have to find somewhere to post my stories.