Subject: Re: Italics.
Author:
Posted on: 2013-05-01 16:51:00 UTC
I suspect that's simply a Fanfic.net formatting fail. If the Hydrangea's lines were in "quotes" or *something else* it could be a variation, but the complete lack of formatting said FFN just stripped it.
hS
I can't seem to find this on the wiki....
We were talking yesterday on the IRC about Power Rangers (it was a rather short conversation) and someone mentioned that there would be a new mini type for every season.
Since Power Rangers is a shared fictional universe, would the mini-types be universal (or two types, because of the whole Disney-Saben fiasco)? Or would it be per season?
So, according to the wiki, trans-dimensional snatching is when canon characters are brought to the Real World, and trans-dimensional hopping is when an OC (from World One/the Real World) ends up in a canon universe. However, what is it called when a Real World person--in this case, an actress--ends up in a canon universe? More specifically, what is this badfic where Jennifer Lawrence turns out to be Penny's cousin and moves in with Leonard, both of The Big Bang Theory? (Yup, that's from the Circle of Lemmings. Are you surprised?)
Is this RPF? Advanced trans-dimensional hopping? A different form of trans-dimensional snatching? Does it fall under the jurisdiction of the PPC at all?
Just trying to iron out some details. Because, really, Quotev is full of this sort of thing, and it's making me expand my knowledge and classification of badfic, and I'd like to know what is and what isn't off-limits to be PPC'd.
~DawnFire
In the instances I've seen, trans-dimensional snatching is more along the lines of "random character that should by no means belong where it is is nonetheless forced there by unknown means". Usually, this results in or is a symptom of a full crossover, but sometimes it's only just random characters appearing where they don't belong, just to please the writer and with little to no mention of what will happen the rest of their world in the absence of its protagonist, which is trans-dimensional snatching at its core.
I remember one mission where the agents charged for trans-dimensional snatching by having a brief mention of the Left 4 Dead characters in a sci-fi universe(I think it might have been Star Wars). It was an unconnected continuum, in a different genre, and the snatched characters were never heard from again outside that scene. Textbook, really.
I think the distinction isn't so much whether World One is the starting point or the ending point, but rather the method. Trans-dimensional hopping is usually a "this is the only way it's going to work" story crutch, since otherwise the Mary Sue wouldn't be able to have knowledge of pizza-making and popular boy bands(not that it stops them), which would cripple the writing style of most Suethors. Trans-dimensional snatching is more a "Wouldn't it be cool if she was here, too?" scenario without the forethought or logical reactions and causes for the transit that would make the appearance of that character halfway plausible.
In that specific badfic, however, I don't know if it would be trans-dimensional anything. It would be stupid, undoubtedly, but since The Big Bang Theory exists in a world so close to World One that Will Wheaton and Steve Wozniak not only exist, but appear as themselves in episodes of the show, it's not out of the question to have Jennifer Lawrence exist.
It's not as though they were saying that her character Katniss Everdeen exists in the The Big Bang Theory continuum, and made her Penny's cousin, without any of the Hunger Games universe present in anything more than throwaway dialogue. That would definitely be snatching, assuming it doesn't expand from there and turn into a crossover.
Giving World One actresses implausible relationships to canon characters is a charge, though, and a major one at that, so I'm not saying drop the idea. Far from it; I'm actually interested to see how a sitcom universe would be PPCed.
The job of a Despatcher in the Department of Trans-dimensional Snatching was "to return any canon characters who are brought to this world [i.e. the Real World] back to their original location," according to "Tales from Despatch." It's pretty explicitly about removing abducted fictional characters from World One. Here's another early example, with DTE Agents Mara and Isaiah.
The concept of trans-dimensional hopping was apparently added later, and by logical extension I'd say it would apply strictly to people from World One hopping themselves into a canon universe under their own power.
I think what really distinguishes a hop or snatch from a regular crossover is 1. World One is involved at one end, and 2. the will of the author-insert explicitly causes it to happen; a deus ex machina such as a Fairy Godfather/magical wish may be employed. Note that not all Sues are true author-inserts; most authors aren't elves living in Middle-earth, for instance. Note also that the author-inserts in the above examples are not harmed, since they're regarded as real people.
~Neshomeh
It would be a lot more common to see a Sue snatch a canon to World One than it would be to see them snatch them to another world, but upon reading that DTE mission (Man, it's been a while since I read the early spin-offs. I really should reread Araeph's missions, and TOS, while I'm at it.), the same points are made. No consideration is given to how the characters got there, so it's basically deus ex machina, there is no mention of how their continuum manages without them, and the canons are taken out of their native world by the will of a group of fanbrats.
Still, I agree with you that it would be very difficult to distinguish a trans-dimensional affair from a crossover if World One wasn't involved, and I don't see Despatch getting pulled outside their forté of World One interaction to deal with minor snatchings in an unrelated badfic.
While we're on the subject of uncategorized World One affairs, what about the "A dimensional portal drops (canonical location) into OUR WORLD! How will this wacky cast of clichéd characters deal with this? Because I know I saw loads of that back when I primarily read Bionicle fanfiction, and I imagine there are plenty of people who can't resist pulling Equestria or Rivendell out of their proper place and into the lake a few blocks away from their neighborhood. Never mind where all the water goes, oh no, water isn't important here. Voya Nui just showed up behind the house!
Sorry. I was remembering a particularly bad Bionicle fic there. I'll get back on topic.
You said the author-inserts weren't harmed in the above examples, but Mara and Isaiah fed theirs to Old Man Willow. Is it just Despatch that has no-damage orders? True, the full-on author avatar in that mission was dealt with by taking away the captive Legolas and insulting her, but the inserts were still disposed of in-story by being digested by an enormous tree-creature.
Also, the Hydrangea appears to be speaking without her italics. Was Tales from Despatch written before that was decided upon? I know I remember reading the Marquis de Sod and Sunflower Official using the italics in the TOS stories, but those could have been added in after the fact.
I suspect that's simply a Fanfic.net formatting fail. If the Hydrangea's lines were in "quotes" or *something else* it could be a variation, but the complete lack of formatting said FFN just stripped it.
hS
This one: http://cyba-zero.livejournal.com/2108.html
How dare you confuse Star Trek and Star Wars! Blasphemy! *chuckles*
Anyhow, I too would be interested in seeing how Big Bang Theory fic would be sporked. My sister had a couple agents and we were discussing this, but she's stopped having much to do with the PPC. I suppose the best way would be to send agents in who are not from World One and show the culture shock. Or have one from World One and another from something exotic. Big Bang Theory fic needs to be tackled, though: Sheldon is a Lust Object. Sheldon Cooper is a Lust Object. I just can't believe it.
I couldn't remember who wrote the mission, so I couldn't go back and check before I posted. Now I'm a bit embarrassed, not least because of my Star Trek fandom. At least I got the video game that the snatched characters were from right and didn't accidentally say Dead Space or something.
Hmm, neither of my agents-to-be are from World One, they don't really understand the culture, and they tend to be prone to shocked reactions. Perhaps they could get a Big Bang Theory mission in at some point. It would probably need to be crossed over with something, because otherwise they'd never get the assignment, and jokes about not understanding World One culture tend to fall flat when your characters are implied to have watched a show that makes as many pop-culture references as The Big Bang Theory does.
But, considering that I found an ungrammatical mess that for some reason decided to mix the aforementioned with Pokémon after looking for about thirty seconds, I don't think finding missionable crossovers for it is going to be that difficult.
I suppose Sheldon Cooper being a Lust Object runs on the same principle as Data being a Lust Object. "Oh he is so witout emotion BUT I CAN HAEL HIM weith love!" is an infamously common plot device amongst Suethors, but usually they use it to uncharacteristically defrost the aloof and disdainful anti-heroes. Characters like Sheldon and Data that give them so much more to subvert must seem like an extra layer of challenge on the Suethor's scale of Troo Wuv.
Also, that 'Stu not only trans-dimensionally snatched the Left 4 Dead characters, he was also responsible for bringing Alan Turing (the World One genius who invented computers) into Star Trek via a misspelling - and assimilating him.
For reference, Star Wars got mentioned as well in that mission, given the appearance of a lightsabre.
Actually, the person who wrote that badfic also wrote one where the same 'Stu was in the Left 4 Dead continuum, and presumably the mess my agents dealt with was a continuation. In fact, he's written a lot of fics in a lot of continuua, all with the same sort of main character (most with different names, but the behaviour is pretty much exactly the same).
I am not surprised that something that completely off the wall crazy (insane? stupid?) came from the Circle. What. The. Actual. Fudge.
(Notice my creative substitutions.)
I'd say it's outside the PPC's jurisdiction, because it involves a real person. So it's RPF, in a way.
...of the Circle's badfic stock anyway, since most of it is "x girl finds love with One Direction/Justin Bieber/Cute Male Celebrity of your Choice".
The unlucky agent who would get assigned Justin Bieber in the Department of Character Protective Services would need to be put under constant flamethrower watch. I don't even want to know what sort of crime an agent would commit to be given that job.
The former DIO Agent Peter Piper killed two Department Heads, and all that the Board of Flowers gave him was exile to the Minecraft continuum. Getting chased around by fire-spitting flying squid would be a picnic compared to sifting through page after page of Justin Bieber seduction RPF written by drooling fangirls. Just the idea makes me miserable and desperate for mind-bleach. (takes a bite of Bleepolate) I'm going to need a bigger stock of Bleeproducts if this keeps up.
Not just because they don't like his music (although "Baby" is just irrationally catchy), but because this is the same pop star who went to the Anne Frank House and wrote that he thought that if she lived today, she would be a Belieber. I mean, how self-centered is that? And then you get all the drooling little girls who write those fics flying onto Twitter and demanding "WHO'S ANNE FRANK WHY DID HE GO TO HER HOUSE I'M SO JEALOUS OF HER".
Have I also mentioned once when I was volunteering for a community New Year's Eve event, I had to supervise a resolution wall? And guess who turned up to write shallow resolutions - Beliebers and Directioners. I'm sure they're lovely people when you get to know them better, but if their resolutions for 2013 are "marry Justin Bieber", "marry One Direction" (How do you marry five blokes at the same time? Isn't that a bit frowned-upon?), and "hope Taylor Swift gets cancer", you really can't help but judge them anyway.
So yeah, I imagine my agents would go off the handle, into FicPsych insane if they ever had to tackle one of those fics.
Both stories - so pathetic - I…no words.
I think any agent (and their author) would go insane.
What do folks think: Do misspellings in the actual canon also become minis? As far as I know, the only example of one recognized anywhere is Enjorlas the mini-Brick, which is a typo in the printed Les Misérables, although it may have been made up by Bubonic Woodchuck for UDÉM coincidentally.
I like to keep track of typos I find when reading. The Halo novels are chock full of them (and clearly not edited for SPaG). I noticed Ocs and Iluvatar (with no accent) in my copy of The Silmarillion. I've caught Montage in Fahrenheit 451 and Kublia Khan in The Judas Strain.
So, a few questions. Firstly, and most funly, have folks encountered similar typos in canon as well? Any funny ones?
Secondly, do we want to recognize these misspellings as minis? If so, then thirdly, where do these minis live? In the corresponding OFU? In canon itself? New Caldeonia? The Twilight Zone? Yale?
(For obvious reasons, we would want to avoid creating a new mini type for a "mini" "discovered" this way; they should still only be nameable by someone writing for that fandom.)
I think that misspellings in a canon have the potential to create minis. Actually recovering them might be a bit tricky, although I can see two ways of that happening:
1) If agents have noticed typos in the canon, and get sent on a mission into that continuum, then after they've dealt with the Sue (or whatever) and the canon has reasserted itself, they could use their RA to try and get to the right point in the source story to recover the mini.
2) It could just be that PPC HQ is unstable enough that simply reading the misspelled canon would cause a mini to spontaneously form next to the agent reading it (similar to how weird stuff always appears at the Unseen University in Discworld, because it's the least stable point of reality). I've actually got a half-written scene that I've had for a little while where that happens, ready to use as part of a future Mission/Interlude if I feel like it.
I too have found the occasional typo in canons before, and they seem to be more common in slightly obscure sci-fi - I guess the publishing houses that deal with kind of stuff are just smaller and less well equipped? It's not just limited to sci-fi though, I'm pretty sure that in some of the earlier books in the Wheel of Time series, I've seen saidin and saidar (the male and female halves of the main magic system) get mixed up.
I've seen plenty of typos in books, though most of them are the non-mini-creating sort.
I've always seen a mini's intelligence being based on how many times its name would likely be used. For minis of rare or ridiculous misspellings like Caprtsin Jqck Sprow or Asrogron, they would be practically feral. For more easily understood misspellings like James Kurk, they would be intelligent and possibly fully sapient, but still not really reconcilable as intelligent beings to most people. For minis in published works, since their name has spread through the world regardless of the potency of the misspelling that created them, they would gain a large amount of intelligence, as well as a desire to lord their status over the other minis. An "alpha complex", if you will. Whether the other minis actually would submit to the publishing error depends on the species, of course.
I briefly toyed with the idea of having my agents meet the mini-Rayquaza "Pokemon", who is not only printed in a multitude of websites and official works, but has absorbed enough knowledge, largely through cultural osmosis, to be a genius by human standards, even gaining the power of full speech in three languages. All played for laughs, of course, especially since he'd be more eloquent than one of my agents would. I might still do it, since the Pokémon mission I planned is far enough in the future for me to regain the element of surprise.
Hmm, the "Kublai Khan" misspelling makes me wonder what a Coleridge mini would be. Mini-Honeydews, maybe. He did mention that a lot, and I don't think we have any minis that take the form of fruit.
Was what I was planning for Ryker, a mini I found in the Princess Diaries book. He thinks he's so much better because he was published.
I also seem to recall a "Dumblefore" in one of my Harry Potter books. I'd have to reread to check, though.
I get the feeling Amercia would be a really arrogant Mochi Nation (moreso than most of the America Mochis) because Mitt Romney had him on his campaign website.
Well, if Suethors are able to create mini-Sues, then I don't see why canon authors shouldn't be able to create minis as well. And since minis' forms are dictated by their canon, then Iluvatar (no accent) is a mini-Balrog, whether created by Tolkien or a Suethor.
However, IMO, I think that that question is purely academic: since PPC agents find minis in the Word Worlds in which said minis are created, and PPC agents cannot go into the Canon World, I find it implausible that an agent would be able to spot such a mini in the first place.
If a mini exists in the canon world, and a canon world is the basis of fanfiction, any created within a canon world would be accessible through the Word World, would it not? Even the mistakes could be dredged back up.
A mini-Iluvatar that appeared in a Suethor's work, by the principle of mini singularity that was apparently decided upon a while back, would be the same mini created by the misspelling in the Silmarillion. To provide a tangential example, I remember a mission that accidentally brought in Garrus Vakarian from Mass Effect due to the misspelling of a canon character named Garruk. The summoning of a mini made in-canon would be no different from dragging a character from another canon into a Word World through accidental textual error.
Especially since the themeing for every season is different every time. I mean, "Dino Thunder"? "Turbo"? "Lost Galaxy"? Yeah, those all imply really different things, especially since the thing that causes all the different ranger teams changes in each season. You know how it is.
"I amar prestar sen," Galadriel whispered, and I frowned. "The world is changed..."
"But that's not right," I muttered to my partner as the prologue to The Fellowship of the Ring continued. "It's 'prestar aen' – 'is being troubled'. The movie got that right... hey, do mistakes in canon languages cause minis?"
Okay, in canon languages per se, I'm assuming not. But this is a direct (mis)quote from the movie... I see three possibilities here.
1/ 'I amar prestar sen' is a mini-Balrog.
2/ 'sen' is a mini-Word (probably manifesting as the Runes of Daeron spelling it, with mini-Balrog characteristics - compare Aaragog)
3/ No, it's just a charge.
I can't remember seeing particular situation before, so unless anyone has any pressing arguments against, I'm probably going with #2. But since I don't want to be beaten over the head with the Precedent Club, I thought I'd best ask if that's a problem.
hS
It's not a lot different from running a phrase through Google Translate into Greek, and posting that into a story as a Greek phrase. It's probably going to be wrong, because it's Google Translate, but you aren't going to get a bunch of mini-Thetas running up at you for it. A misspelling of a canonical language is the same thing.
Like Neshomeh said, minis are more for proper nouns than anything. I may be misrecalling the chronology here, but I remember reading several of the first missions to "spawn" minis in-story, and they even had the minis act out the parts of the story assigned to their misspelling. Since the Word World couldn't actually use a character named "Asrogron", if a story had Legolas "talk to Asrogron", it would have Legolas talk to a mini-Balrog that spawned nearby, while Aragorn would stand in the background as the mini aped his lines until his properly spelled name was mentioned again. It was a fun idea, and I've occasionally wondered why people stopped doing it.
If it was just a misspelling in spoken language, it would be more comparable to someone asking to purchase something at a store and instead telling the clerk what sort of fish were inhabiting your hovercraft than to referring to a person or place that was never there.
Okay, "shoud" should have been "should", as is obvious. Also, to clarify, "misspelling of a word" was to be interpreted as "misspelling of a word only in an invented language", but the title bar didn't have enough space, as always.
As far as I know, not all misspellings make minis, just ones of people and place names. As the Philosopher wrote, "For every name spelled wrong in Rings, a mini-Balrog gets its wings."
If it was any misspelling, we'd all be up to our eyeballs in minis before we knew it!
~Neshomeh
... it's not just a misspelled Sindarin word, which obviously wouldn't be a mini. It's a misspelling of a canonical line in another language - and the first one in the entire (movie) trilogy, at that.
But... "If this is indeed the will of the Council, then DOGA will see it done."
hS
I can't seem to find anything on the wiki (but I am bad at searching wikis), and if I've read a mission dealing with it, I've clearly forgotten it all, so...
It works the same as a character mini. Rivendale, for example, is a min-Balrog.
The only exception is in my OFU, because I wrote it before I knew about the PPC precedents. Besides, there's an omnipotent trickster on the staff, who could have simply said "I'd like to have mini-starships". So yeah.
I was thinking of offering to beta for you, if you wanted it.
I have been hesitant up until now, on the basis of 'Until I'm perfect, am I really good enough to beta for someone else?', but I suspect I'm probably being too much of a perfectionist with myself again.
So... I could give it a look-over for SpaG and such. I might not be perfect, but nobody is and we can all use the practice. It also may be good for if your usual beta gets busy.
In the mission I just posted about a second ago (sorta) my Agents noted that the Sue misspelt "Perian" into "Berien", creating a hobbit-sized pile of berries.
But Perian is supposed to be a noun; prestar aen is a verb. So yeah.
IMHO, every series (with the possible exception of the three in the Zordon era (MMPR, Zeo, Turbo)) is different (different Big Bads, different Mooks, different Rangers), so it would make sense that each series gets its own mini type.
It might be a stupid question...
At the very least, I've asked worse.
