Calling Permission Givers~

Calling Permission Givers~ by Meip on 2009-07-27 23:27:00 UTC

Permission by Neshomeh on 2009-07-29 02:02:00 UTC Reply

It is granted. {= )

To add to Pads' advice about punctuation, I advise you to choose your adjectives a little more carefully. Take the following:

1) a veritable mass of brown curls

2) a massive cat lover

"Veritable" is one of those words, like "literally," that have been wrongly co-opted as expressions of emphasis. If you want to say that Meip has big hair, "mass" by itself serves the purpose. If you need to emphasize the mass, choose a word that truly describes it, like "springy" or something.

As for the second phrase, the word "massive" there makes it sound either like Meip is very overweight or like she loves massive cats. (Clearing up that ambiguity is how a hyphen would come in handy.) I suspect you're embellishing on the cliche "big cat-lover." The trouble is that that phrase, though in common usage, isn't correct. The cliche slides under the radar because it is everywhere. When you change it, though, you draw attention to it and the incorrectness of the phrase jumps out. You could say that Meip is a devout cat-lover, an obsessive cat-lover, an unrepentant cat-lover.... There are many possibilities in which the description is correct.

I hope that all makes sense. Let me know if I can clarify anything for you. Meanwhile, welcome to the PPC. {= )

~Neshomeh
not a PG, just a random comment by Pads on 2009-07-28 00:23:00 UTC Reply

If/when you get permission, when you write a mission, I'd be very happy to go over it before you post it, and shout at you about the case differences of who and whom. I'm even up for another bout of the Great Hyphen Debacle '09, if you like.

*removes betaing hat and goes to bed*

Re: not a PG, just a random comment by Meip on 2009-07-28 00:58:00 UTC Reply

That would be most appreciated, as long as you don't yell at me too loudly.

As for the great Hyphen Debacle, I would be more than happy to listen, though I doubt that I would argue with what you say. ^^ I'm always ecstatic to find ways to improve my writing. =3

I'd argue! by Sedri on 2009-07-28 09:42:00 UTC Reply

In good humour, of course. But then, I'm not entirely sure on what your Hyphen Views are, Pads dear. *grins* This should be interesting...

Re: I'd argue! by Pads on 2009-07-28 11:05:00 UTC Reply

You ought to be aware, Sedri. After all round one of said Hyphen Debacle was arguing with you. If memory serves, it was the correct placing of the hyphens when interrupting directly reported speech for a spot of action, then returning to the speech. In Meip's case, I plan to point out that when we use hyphens as a means of sneaking another clause into the middle of a sentence - like this - we have spaces either side.

I agree about the spaces... by Sedri on 2009-07-29 01:52:00 UTC Reply

...but I stubbornly refuse to conceed on the dialoge part. The hyphens indicate interruptions to the speech itself, not the tags and narrative surrounding it, so they should be within the quotation marks.

(And yes, I thought that was it, but wasn't sure.)
Not so! by Neshomeh on 2009-07-29 01:39:00 UTC Reply

Hi. I have internet again. {= )

Also, the set of rules mainly used on this side of the Big Pond tell me that hyphens really shouldn't be used to separate clauses at all. Rather, m-dashes should be used. Since you can't type an m-dash into a text box, double-hyphens--like this--take their place.

~Neshomeh, who's going to go over that Permission request now.

I couldn't help but notice... by Pads on 2009-08-02 02:09:00 UTC Reply

...while reading the Grauniad today (oh, the luxury of spending all Saturday perusing the papers!) that they use normal hyphens to space things - just like I do. So that's probably where I get it from. Could just be their style, could be standard journalism style over here, I'm not sure.

Could be. by Neshomeh on 2009-08-03 02:25:00 UTC Reply

I don't generally read papers--probably because the ink makes me feel dirty after touching them--but when I do, I get the sense that most of them hold themselves to lower standards than other publications. *shrug* It depends on the paper.

I don't actually remember where I picked up the rule of using two hyphens stuck together to stand for a dash, come to think of it. I may have to look into it.

~Neshomeh

Re: Could be. by Pads on 2009-08-03 03:24:00 UTC Reply

I asked my dad about this one in pub tonight - he's generally handy, as not only is he a Dad and thus a Fount of all Knowledge, but he also picked up a degree in Linguistics in the late seventies - and his feeling, which matches mine, is that, in UK publishing, the m-dash went out in the seventies. Probably typewriters are to blame, and computers as a continuation of that, since only Word does m-dashes these days. Anyroad, wherever it's printed, be it book, newspaper, pamphlet, whatever, these days, in the UK, it's simply a normal hyphen with spaces either side; the m-dash is dead. Certainly that fits my vague idea, gleaned simply from reading books, that the m-dash is archaic.

I will, however, keep an eye out. Already spotted Haruki Murakami's "Wind-up Bird Chronicle" goes with my style of hyphen, but I don't know whether that's Japanese translated or written simply in English for the UK market.

Most papers hold themselves to lower standards. The Grauniad, by way of being the Grauniad, likes to hold itself to interestingly different standards. One still is covered in ink after reading it, mind.

Re: Not so! by Pads on 2009-07-29 02:38:00 UTC Reply

Agreed, but as m-dashes are hard to get when typing, and double hyphens are often split when at the end of the line, I'm happy with hyphens instead. So long as they're done right, with none of this business of having a hyphen tacked onto the end of a word. Unless it's showing an interru-

"The ROUSs? I don't think they exi-" by Maudlin Hart on 2009-07-29 22:36:00 UTC Reply

"AAAARGH!"

*chuckles* (nm) by Sedri on 2009-07-30 07:16:00 UTC Reply

All hail Westley. (nm) by Maudlin Hart on 2009-07-31 21:37:00 UTC Reply

I generally don't fuss about the N-dash M-dash difference. by Sedri on 2009-07-29 12:34:00 UTC Reply

Generally I think it's just a matter of aesthetics. Split hyphens, however, annoy the hell out of me, because you end up doing a double-take to figure out what was actually meant. :(

(Of course, when text displays put a hyphen showing an interruption - like yours, Pads - on the next line anyway without acknowledging it as attached to the word, the whole thing ends up pointless and leaves me grumbling at the text displays themselves.)