Even so.

Subject: Even so.
Author: Neshomeh
Posted on: 2009-07-08 19:31:00 UTC

You're comparing the productive capabilities of the Commonwealth with a society based on feudalism and slave labor. I'm perfectly happy to believe that an advanced republic could churn out and maintain a lot more ships with a lot less effort than the Goa'uld have to put into their 1000. Could the ancient Egyptians have built brick houses? Perhaps, but we do it better and in less time, and we have a whole hell of a lot more houses than the Egyptians ever did.

I still don't see how the SGC finding a diplomatic solution counts as giving up hope.

If one Goa'uld Queen was able to have a change of heart, why not another? As the Tok'ra point out, "Not all Goa'uld are the same."

As to how Ninmah's society was allowed to develop, if she was a strong enough System Lord to hold her own in battle, why not? I'll grant you that her being that powerful is a big stretch, but if you allow for that, the rest is feasible.

At the very most, you've got some bad logic and one Mary-Sue. Faceless masses =/= Mary-Sues. It simply doesn't work that way. If there were to be a mission, all the agents would have to do is take out Ninmah, maybe taking advantage of their Host Day to catch her with her guard down, then neuralyze the SGC. After that, everything Ninmah-Sue created would either disappear or assimilate with the canon. Even if destroying a planet or two were in order, the job would be made much easier by simple assassination beforehand. Remove the Sue's grip on the Word World, and suddenly it starts to come apart at the seams, leaving the team open to blow stuff up at leisure without having to worry about the defenses, which will be in complete disarray. QED.

~Neshomeh

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Help! 32 billion Mary sues! by raw_fo_tra_eht on 2009-07-08 03:43:00 UTC Reply

Yes I know I'm new but this is an emergency so I appoligise if I should introduce myself first. Theres this Stargate fic on http://www.tthfanfic.org/ called Extinction Event where a Commonwealth called the Akkadian Commonwealth has a fleet of 12,000 hat'ak motherships but only has 27 planets and a population of 32 billion people to maintain this massive fleet ... which decides to wipe out all of the 6 billion people on earth due to the fact that The trust (Rogue organisation like section 31) killed three million one hundred and forty-six thousand people even though there is no way that this Commonwealth could know that it was the trust that attacked and that they from earth. Stargate command then instead of finding a way to defeat this fleet of ships that have no ancient technology yet can take on asgard ships so they decide to use diplomacy to stop this even though they have 4 months to come up with a solution. I have reviewed it (I'm AbscondingCascade) and pointed out the problems but I fear as one negative reviewer against a authour swelled by 39 mostly positive reviews that even though I contacted one of the sites stargate experts (the Author hotpoint) that this horor will endure. I provide A link to show the horror that is the stargat fanfic Extinction Event http://www.tthfanfic.org/Story-19533/Speakertocustomers+Extinction+Event.htm .Please as Twisting the hellmouth is a buffy fanfiction site I fear that the majority of native site inhabitants who read it won't understand that the Akkadian comonwealth is a mary sue utopia of 32 billion mary sues with (at least) dozens of possesion sues inhabiting canon characters; Stargate canon cannot resist this foothold on the SGC. Please help.

Ai Elbereth! (nm) by Maudlin Hart on 2009-07-09 00:30:00 UTC Reply
Hello! by Cinnia Aine on 2009-07-08 16:14:00 UTC Reply

I don't know the Canon, but I'm not sure if the story is really that bad. Not all of the 32 billion might be Mary Sues. Some might be bit characters (easily tricked into crashing).
Since you're new, here's a laser-proof scimitar from the Raven Armory. (It wasn't laser-proof until I had someone tamper with it.)

Overreacted I did by raw_fo_tra_eht on 2009-07-10 10:37:00 UTC Reply

Made an accidental exaggeration I did ... *hits voice box a few times* ... anyway, I'll put your wonderful gift in a sealed box with ten digit combination code so I don't accidentally cut both my hands and feet of again and have to spend five hours in A & E having them reattached agai... that was a hypothetical scenario I'm not so clumsy that I accidentally cut both my hands and feet off with a table knife in an embarrassing accident which was theoretically impossible before it happened ... *laughs unconvincingly in an attempt to make previous statement look like a joke* … anyway have this 256 leaf clover in a plastic pot as a thank you hopefully it'll bring lots of good luck.
Its not like it causes bad luck 50% of the time. That would be an extreme waste of a five billion pound military project if said project was to say cause a huge naval disaster in its field test, thus cause my penguin military leadership to make a young penguin solider a scapegoat to ensure that they and I don't get fired for extreme incompetence. That is a ludicrous piece of Giant Sapient crab propaganda, designed to remove the extremely competent penguin military leadership and I from power so as to make their invasion plans so much easier.
BTW if you wondering why I didn't give you a genetically modified super soldier Penguin which has been trained to kill Mary sues like I did when khajidu gave me the living male sailing ship Cuauhtemoc … well they've all chosen to go on strike because they want to paid in pounds instead of fish … so I can't give you one unfortunately as they throw fish at me when I try and talk to them.

I think you're over-reacting. by Neshomeh on 2009-07-08 10:04:00 UTC Reply

Okay, the fic isn't going to win any awards, but it doesn't suck, either. The premise of the conflict is well laid out, everyone seems to be in character, and I don't see what's wrong with using diplomacy to solve problems.

Furthermore, I looked over your review and the author's response. I didn't read them fully, because your use of footnotes (and footnotes within footnotes) is, frankly, annoying. However, based on what I did read, your concerns were well-answered, and the responses make enough sense for me. As the author points out, the fic doesn't contain any more plotholes on average than SG-1 itself, so I don't think we need to be getting up in arms over it.

If you intend to hang around the Board with us, that's cool--you're quite welcome to do so--but please calm down and make an effort to spell, capitalize, and punctuate your posts properly in the future, preferably with paragraphs at appropriate intervals. And please, please ditch the footnotes.

~Neshomeh

Got it by raw_fo_tra_eht on 2009-07-08 11:16:00 UTC Reply

sorry about the footnotes i'll try and cut back to one or two footnotes at most.

Secondly the problem is that a population of 32 billion or 82 billion (the author thinking of changing it) maintain a fleet of twelve thousand Hatak vessels when its commonwealth is spread across only 27 planets. Which is like 27 worlds in star wars maintaing 12000 star destroyers. it's impossible for dozens of reason especiallly consdering that the majoritiy of those people are going to be on a few of those planets which will be industrilised while the rest will be farm worlds for maintaing their common wealth.

I don't think in the entire history of the goa'uld that there have been more than a 1000 ha'taks due to the resource cost of building and maintaing one as the current standard ha'tak is mothership is a 700 meter long, 650 meter wide, 315 meter deep vessel with 60 staff cannons with a shield that can withstand an estimated at 1 gigaton of explosive force without it having any measurable decrease of the shield's power; The fact is, at least, that it consumes naquadah as fuel. We could expect the naquadah to be a refined version which may be as potent as weapon-grade naquadah and provide high power. Although much of this is open to speculation, it's more than likely that Goa'uld reactors are fusion based.
To maintain such a fleet would be impossible for such a civilisation the only way to be able to do so would require a galactic spaning empire or for it to be a Mary sue Utopia.

And that with out considering that the goa'uld are paranoid
about being found out as false gods aand are less stable than the average agent they'd destroy said civilisation in its infancy. Like how they treat Harcesis children and the Tok'ra. the only way for this Ninmah to be able to stop the goa'uld from stopping her would be mind control.

Also she has a change of heart about how she treats her subjects which only Egeria he founder of the tok'ra movement (due to being a Goa'uld Queen she literally spawned the movement) has ever done (the tok'ra don't count due to the fact that goa'uld genetic memories are controled by the queen who makes the Goa'uld.

And there is the fact that Stargate command never give up hope they have been fighting against enemies far greater than them since they stepped through the stargate. Even when there is no hope and the light at the end of the tunnel is a flame thrower mounted on a train they always find a way to win and with 4 months prep time they'd have found a way to stop this commonwealth.

And finaly they trust this commonwealth even after it was going to kill all life on earth.

I could go on but then I'd get in trouble due to spending to much time on the net and quite frankly I've babbled for long enough and I'm probably getting self righteous and annoying (if I am I appoligise).

Note: info from http://stargate.wikia.com/, also refrences to Tv tropes are made.

Even so. by Neshomeh on 2009-07-08 19:31:00 UTC Reply

You're comparing the productive capabilities of the Commonwealth with a society based on feudalism and slave labor. I'm perfectly happy to believe that an advanced republic could churn out and maintain a lot more ships with a lot less effort than the Goa'uld have to put into their 1000. Could the ancient Egyptians have built brick houses? Perhaps, but we do it better and in less time, and we have a whole hell of a lot more houses than the Egyptians ever did.

I still don't see how the SGC finding a diplomatic solution counts as giving up hope.

If one Goa'uld Queen was able to have a change of heart, why not another? As the Tok'ra point out, "Not all Goa'uld are the same."

As to how Ninmah's society was allowed to develop, if she was a strong enough System Lord to hold her own in battle, why not? I'll grant you that her being that powerful is a big stretch, but if you allow for that, the rest is feasible.

At the very most, you've got some bad logic and one Mary-Sue. Faceless masses =/= Mary-Sues. It simply doesn't work that way. If there were to be a mission, all the agents would have to do is take out Ninmah, maybe taking advantage of their Host Day to catch her with her guard down, then neuralyze the SGC. After that, everything Ninmah-Sue created would either disappear or assimilate with the canon. Even if destroying a planet or two were in order, the job would be made much easier by simple assassination beforehand. Remove the Sue's grip on the Word World, and suddenly it starts to come apart at the seams, leaving the team open to blow stuff up at leisure without having to worry about the defenses, which will be in complete disarray. QED.

~Neshomeh

I have far too much time on my hands. by raw_fo_tra_eht on 2009-07-09 00:10:00 UTC Reply

Note: I may exhibit paranoia and plan for the worst case scenario but I do so as to ensure that any potential agents that might be sent on a possible mission to this fic (if it is deemed necessary for a mission to happen) come back as safe as possible. As I like to say "Curiosity killed the cat, Paranoia could have saved it".

" Could the ancient Egyptians have built brick houses? Perhaps, but we do it better and in less time, and we have a whole hell of a lot more houses than the Egyptians ever did." Yes but we need bricks to do it and there aren't enough resources in 27 solar systems to build such a fleet. The only way I can see to build such a fleet would require the resources of hundreds maybe thousands of worlds. Using the Serrakin (http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Serakin) as an example of an advanced industrialized democratic Stargate race with the capability to take on the Goa'uld they never showed the capability to produce 444 ships (12,000 ships divided by 27 planets = 444.44) that were on the same level as a Ha'tak class mother ship.

"I still don't see how the SGC finding a diplomatic solution counts as giving up hope." Ah I seem to have phrased my previous post in an incoherent manner .... Well its that all their efforts seem to be in diplomacy not in trying to find a way to stop this super fleet; which is out of character for Stargate command.

"If one Goa'uld Queen was able to have a change of heart, why not another? As the Tok'ra point out, "Not all Goa'uld are the same.""
Egeria unfortunately appears to be the only exception to the rule that normal Goa'uld (Tok'ra don't count due to Egerias ability to manipulate their genetic memories) can realise that their megalomania is wrong. Even the mostly sane Goa'uld Baal is an untrustworthy snake (pun/joke not intended).

"As to how Ninmah's society was allowed to develop, if she was a strong enough System Lord to hold her own in battle, why not? I'll grant you that her being that powerful is a big stretch, but if you allow for that, the rest is feasible." the Goa'uld are too paranoid to allow one of their own 800 years to build a civilisation capable of destabilizing their image as gods. They would have realistically found out due to minor goa'uld(s) in Ninmah's ranks about her little experiment in its infancy.

"At the very most, you've got some bad logic and one Mary-Sue" what we have here is an example of a Mary Sue Topia (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySueTopia) in my opinion. Which means at best we have to kill 32 billion brain dead bit characters and one Mary sue at worst we have to deal with 83 billion fanatically loyal Mary sues lead by a Mary sue Queen.

The Dakara superweapon is a quick way to ensure we don't have to go kill them all personally. Getting control of it may actually not be such a pain as we just have to portal in to the control room, trick the canon Jaffa into going some else for a bit (hologram of Baal or something), reprogram the local Stargate to dial all 27 planets in this commonwealth and then trigger the dakara superweapon then destroy the non canon system if canon doesn't remove them ... the plan is too easy ... we need a new plan that won't go horribly wrong half way through.

"Then neuralyze the SGC". Ahhh ... it's not that simple. The Goa'uld, the Tok'ra, the Asgard, possibly the Jaffa, Vala and the social circles she moves in (The Lucian Alliance)
All know about Ninmah.

So ... how do we neuralyze basically the entire galaxy and the Asgard? How does a neuralyzer work? As if we can rig one into the Dakara superweapon then we'd only have to worry about the Asgard and people not in a solar system with a stargate as if we used the Dakara superweapon but modified it to be a Nerualyzer we could neuralise most of the galaxy (hey we could neuralise the Canon jaffa in the Dakara system ordering them else where ... and thus the Dakara super weapon plan gets another nail in its coffin as with it the mission becomes too easy meaning that the plan will go wrong somewhere).

You're also missing the point. by Neshomeh on 2009-07-09 02:57:00 UTC Reply

I don't know who coined the term Mary Sue Topia, but it wasn't us. We strive to take more of an Occam's Razor approach with a side of the KISS principle. (I trust you know how to look those up if you're not familiar with them.)

The original point of the PPC is to do things as subtly and humorously as possible. A mission to start a galactic war does not qualify.

~Neshomeh

just being a paranoid bitter misotheist by raw_fo_tra_eht on 2009-07-09 15:44:00 UTC Reply

Just presenting a worst case scenario ... I admit that its highly unlikely that the 32 billion (it may be retconned to 83 billion) are going to be Mary Sues but I thought they qualified as bit characters but if they don't then it actually will be relatively simple to pull off this if it becomes a mission.
Though Baal, Lord Yu, Oshu the First Prime of Lord Yu, Camulus, Amaterasu and possibly Anubis knows about her so do we have to neuralise them? Or do we just have to Neuralise Stargate command as I'm a fan of Lord Yu and with his senility is it safe to neuralise him? Oh ... is it possible to neuralise Anubis?

Also while I try and remember to apply Occam's razor I usually forget due to my imagination and paranoia. BTW thank you for telling me about the KISS principle which has now become one of my favourite acronyms (along with TARDIS and WRDD!(1))

P.S it seems my Tv Tropes obsession is having negative affects ... http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySueTopia.

P.P.S I've heard that The PPC can recruit dead canon characters ... has Janet Fraiser(2) been recruited yet? As she is a brilliant doctor who would be a great addition to the medical team.

(1) We're doomed. DOOMED! (I don't remember where I heard it but I love It :) )

(2) WHY Did Speakertocustomers let her die! He's a fanfiction writer he could have not mentioned her or allowed her to live but no ... he puts this line in to the fic "A short time later came the mission on which Dr Janet Fraiser was killed"! Janet deserves more than ONE MEASLEY LINE if you going to kill her! She Deserves at least an entire Chapter if you going to KILL HER! … Sorry for shouting … I may have a small crush on the Fantastically Wonderful Doctor Janet Fraiser … *sighs*.

Note: Sorry about using footnotes but I couldn't find a way to work them into the text without making it awkward.

On characters. by Neshomeh on 2009-07-09 17:18:00 UTC Reply

To be a character, even a bit character, requires... well, characterization. They have to actually do something in the story. What's-his-name, the guy who shows SG-1 around when they first get to the Commonwealth, is a bit character (minor character at best) and could be assassinated or recruited. The guy who shows them how to use the TVs on the train is a bit character, and he does so little he'd either disappear or assimilate with the canon as soon as the Sue's influence was removed.

The other System Lords don't actually play a role in the fic, either. They are never shown to interact with the Sue (unless I missed something). Therefore, when she's gone and the canon snaps back to normal, the worst that could happen is that they'd be left with a nagging sense that they forgot something. Maybe her name. But, in the face of the realities of canon, they'd soon forget all about it and be just fine without intervention from the PPC.

All this is based on traditional PPC conventions. In our canon, if you will, that's just the way things work.

Everything in fanfic and the PPC is strongly determined by the fact that we're dealing with a written work. No matter how much we treat the effects of badfic as real effects on a real world, at the heart of it, it's all just Words. If it doesn't occur in the Words, it isn't important.

As for recruiting dead canons, yes, it has happened, but only as something rare and unusual. The rule of thumb is, if you want to write about the canon characters, the thing to do is write a fanfic, not turn the PPC into one.

... I mean, okay, the PPC is sort of a cosmopolitan group fanfic. But the point is to protect the various canons and leave them undisturbed, not to drag their people in here just because one person feels like it. Generally speaking, if a canon character gets recruited, it's because they are NOT the real character, but an Alternate Universe version. They often take on new names so as to avoid confusion and are somewhat different from their canon counterparts.

~Neshomeh, who's going to stop now before she confuses herself.

I (hopefully) understand by raw_fo_tra_eht on 2009-07-09 17:46:00 UTC Reply

So that's 2 confirmed bit characters, one unconfirmed bit character (the Goa'uld host may count as one), 1 Mary Sue and a group of Jaffa soldiers with guns who would probably Qualify as bit characters ... I'm rather foolish aren't I.

Me writing fanfiction ... http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4620240/1/TheTransmissionofasignal ... I'm far too much of a coward to even finish that so its not going to happen, I just like Janet too much to risk writing her wrong.

~rawfotra_eht, AKA AbscondingCascade, AKA Life is a paradox, AKA he who will probably never get the courage to finish (well ... begin(1)) his first fanfiction, AKA he who thinks the internet is so useful as without it he would probably never get to say "I have many names(2)".

(1) I've only written a prologue so realistically ... it probably doesn't even count as a fanfiction.

(2) http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IHaveManyNames

Wait, what? by thejadefalcon on 2009-07-08 10:39:00 UTC Reply

"The premise of the conflict is well laid out"

I'll take your word for that, not having any interest in the fic, but what about what happened before this conflict?

How on earth would the Goa'uld not know about these people? When the Tau'ri (us) started to become a threat, the System Lords began to form alliances against them. If this random commonwealth has twenty-seven planets and twelve thousand Ha'taks, then the Goa'uld would surely have called upon all of their forces and laid waste to every planet in the commonwealth.

And, depending on when the fic is set, why didn't these guys help out against the Ori?

*looks at second paragraph* Hmm... come to think of it, I once had a group of races like that (though with fewer ships). I can't remember why the Goa'uld didn't attack them, but I think it was a good reason. Meh. That fic is likely to never exist again anyway.

Because their Queen is a Goa'uld ... by raw_fo_tra_eht on 2009-07-08 13:03:00 UTC Reply

... who has seen the light like Egeria and has found a way to undedetectable create this perfect society that the Goua'uld don't want to destroy yet it is a civilisation which is perfectly fine with the Tok'ra and Earth even though it won't help the Goa'uld (as they wrong and evil) but won't help Earth (as "Ninmah" doesn't want to betray her people) they're like the Ascended yet their not Ascended. Oh and its set before series 9 so they have a valid excuse not to fight the Ori.

I think I smell a Mary Sue ... Oh Dear gods no the 456 from Torchwood: Children of Earth are Mary Sues ... it Makes perfect sense: the ability to survive a completely toxic atmosphere, the Destruction of the torchwood hub (classic Villan Sue) and their Message "WE ARE COMING BACK TOMMOROW" (which means today now). Every Doctor Who and Torchwood Mary Sue is going to come back to life At 9PM GMT by possesing evey child on earth in the doctor who universe ... What Are we going to do?!

Um. Wow. Thanks for the spoiler. (nm) by JulyFlame on 2009-07-09 07:01:00 UTC Reply
Well, I suppose I have... by thejadefalcon on 2009-07-08 16:07:00 UTC Reply

the satisfaction that, while the Emperor of the main race of my alliance was also a Goa'uld, he was evil and wanted control over everything. After people found out he was a Goa'uld, civil war FTW.
OI! WATCH THE SPOILERS! by Ansela on 2009-07-08 14:36:00 UTC Reply

This Board is an international one. Please be considerate and either stop throwing out spoilers for shows that only aired in the past two days, use HTML to hide them or give a warning that you're about to spoil. Some people won't have had a chance to watch Children of Earth yet, and you're being rather rude by spoiling it for them in this manner.

Could you also please consider using proper spelling, grammar and punctuation? It's getting a bit painful to read your posts.

Sorry by raw_fo_tra_eht on 2009-07-08 14:58:00 UTC Reply

I didn't think *hits self on head with a pillow*, now if you'll excuse me there is a certain cat with a habit of walking on peoples faces when they trying to sleep that I need to ... talk to ... then maybe finaly I can up catch on a few minutes sleep so that I don't make any more mistakes.

Welcome. Here's a tall ship. by khajidu on 2009-07-08 07:34:00 UTC Reply

This one is Mexican, plays loud music all the day long (and the night) and sails very fast. And she's a he, too.

Thank you for you kind gift by raw_fo_tra_eht on 2009-07-08 08:00:00 UTC Reply

Thank you for you kind gift, Please have this genetically modified(1) super soldier Penguin(2) which has been trained to kill Mary sues in 30972.876 ways in return for your generosity.

(1)http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main.GeneticEngineeringIsTheNewNuke

(2) http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitleul0owi4irvy5?from=Main.EverythingsBetterWithPenguins

Thank you. by khajidu on 2009-07-08 08:28:00 UTC Reply

My Agents will like it. Enjoy your sailing on the Cuauhtemoc.

The Cuauhtemoc by raw_fo_tra_eht on 2009-07-08 10:30:00 UTC Reply

My navy Penguins have been cheered up no end as budget cuts due to my Penguin Air force accidently sinking their Carrier fleet due to a rather over entusiastic young Penguin who had only become sapient(1) 3 months before causing a rather large arial incidence meaning they've only had 5 small lifeboats to operate from which annoyed them no end Now with The Cuauhtemoc they can deal with the sea monster problem ... by the way keep Apprentice Overkill away from planes as we revoked his flying privilages because ... of a ... incodent involving ... noodles ... and due to being 6 months old he doesn't really listen to authoritie figures so just keep him away from planes.

(1)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapience (we give the Penguins Sapience 3 months after their birth we tried to give to them earlier but the test subjects became pascifist hippies which when running a supersoldier project is highly annoying

Lol. Poor Cuauhtemoc. by khajidu on 2009-07-08 10:42:00 UTC Reply

Let's hope he won't end like the previous ones. And don't forget he won't participate in killing people. That includes the Sea Monster, if it's sentient. And this ship is his own person, your penguins will have a very hard time dictating him anything against his ethics.

Don't Panic. by raw_fo_tra_eht on 2009-07-08 12:46:00 UTC Reply

he isn't an aircraft carrier so he doesn't have to worry about a massive airal disaster and the Sea Monsters are either Non Sapient/Sentient super weapons, Non Sapient/Sentient mutants or Cosmic horrors created by their being to many mary sues in the multiverse (or a mixture of the three) so their either Non Sapient/Sentient or their pure undiluted evil which is trying to detroy all life in which case I honestly just want to stop them.

OK go ahead then. by khajidu on 2009-07-10 05:57:00 UTC Reply

But be careful, he's a sailing ship.

Will do (nm) by raw_fo_tra_eht on 2009-07-10 09:47:00 UTC Reply

First plover! by Tawaki on 2009-07-08 04:49:00 UTC Reply

The Flowers, I think, will send in the Department of Geographical Aberrations, who will make the stars in major Akkadian Commonwealth systems go supernova.

Potential Problems, Potential solutions by raw_fo_tra_eht on 2009-07-08 07:52:00 UTC Reply

Language: English (change)

We might not be able to use Sun crushers due to the fact that there is a canon way to destroy stars(1) in the stargate universe meaning that we may have to get past a fleet of 12,000 (posibly 24,000) hat'ak mother ships(2) one of their ha’taks is easily a match for two System Lord flagships while their squadron flagships(3)could take on an Asgard vessel on even terms. their foot-soldiers have weaponry far superior to staff weapons(4). Seeing how out matched we are in terms of tech I have come up with a plan A, a Plan B, a plan C and a plan D .

Plan A requires we capture the Temple at Dakara(5) so that we can use the Dakara superweapon(6) in conjunction with the stargate network(7), then we use the weapon in its basic mode to destroy all matter on the 27 planets and the surrounding space, then we'll hide away for a few months so as to not be killed for killing 32 billion Mary Sues(8), while we hide away(9) we'll steal Asgard Black hole tech(10) then when the hunt for us dies down a bit(11) we'll use said tech (while ensuring no canons are in those solar systems) to turn one or more of the stars in to a black hole (depending how close the systems are). there are flaws to the plan as Dakara is an important planet(5) controlled by Baal meaning we have to take the system with out killing the canons which will be hard and then we'll have to put them somewhere safe so that when we trigger the Dakara superweapon from the nicely shielded control room they won't all be erased from existence.

If that fails we will have to go to plan B) taking control of the Ascension machine(14)so that we can Ascend say 27 Agents and then have them destroy the solar systems, of course we don't know if the Ascended have been affected by the mary sues and may/may not try and stop us(15).

If that fails we go to Plan C) we tell the Ori(17) about the existence of the Akkadian Commonwealth and hope that they can destroy them.

If the Ori lose the war(18) then we will be forced to go to plan D) FULL SCALE WAFARE against the Akkadian Commonwealth as Canon will be so Warped that we'll have to use everything at our disposal. To do so we shall bring the Attero device(19) to the Milky way galaxy, if we can we'll turn off the stargate network (with the exception of the Akkadian Commonwealths stargates) and then turn the Attero device on (regardless of whether the stargate network can be turned off) with it set to destroy Goa'uld Ha'taks, we'll wake up the Wraith and give them intergalactic hyperdrives and tell them about the Akkadian Commonwealth while detonating ZPMs(20) next to Akkadian Commonwealth stars basically the gloves will come off and we'll do whatever is in are power to restore stargate canon.

Hopefully Either someone will come up with a better plan or we'll succeed at plan A As plan B, C and D are filled with too much risk (not to say that plan A isn't risky but it's less likely to go horribly wrong)

(1) http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Vorashsun

(2) there is no distinguishment between normal ha’taks, Ha'taks enhanced with ancient weaponry and Anubis' mothership which is very very bad as the vagueness means they can basically rip to pieces any ship we could "borrow"

(3) never mind the fact that no one has enough hat'ak mother ships to have Squadrons!

(4) They appear to have guns but could be armed with other weapons

(5) http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Dakara

(6) <a href="http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Dakarasuperweapon">http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Dakarasuperweapon

(7)using a 'hack' of the DHD's correlative update function we'll dial every Stargate in the Akkadian Commonwealth simultaneously

(8) Unfortunately due to the massive canon alteration on such a large scale I calculate a 99.7% chance that the canon characters and civilisations will still all adore the Akkadian Commonwealth meaning that they will see are attack as a crime against humanity. we won't be able to move freely until we destroy the Akkadian Commonwealth systems and thus reset canon.

(9) possibly at head quarters

(10) <a href="http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Hala%27ssun">http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Hala%27ssun

(11) Due to Stargate Command decreased ability to plan, the mellowing of the Asgard(12) due to the Akkadian Commonwealth

(12) they said they weren't ruthless enough which is insane as the Asgard destroyed their own home world to stop the replicators(13)

(13) <a href="http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Othala(planet">http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Othala(planet)

(14) <a href="http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Ascensionmachine">http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Ascensionmachine (due to the fact that Agents who can pull off Spiritual Ascension are going to be very rare)

(15) even if they haven't been affected they may still have us follow the rules(16)

(16) http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Ascended#Rules

(17) http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Ori

(18) (Warning contains swearing) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FUBAR (Warning contains swearing)

(19) <a href="http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Atterodevice">http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Attero_device

(20) http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/ZPM

I like this Ori plan... by thejadefalcon on 2009-07-08 10:43:00 UTC Reply

but what about a Wraith Hive ship with three ZPMs powering it?

I would have to accept the Stargate:Atlantis finale by raw_fo_tra_eht on 2009-07-08 12:38:00 UTC Reply

but that would mean I would have to accept the Stargate:Atlantis finale as an actual episode which I just can't do.

I'd have to accept that they wasted an entire episode in a paralel reality playing CSI, I'd have to accept that was should have been an epic space battle like the end of season 7 but was instead a complete disapointmen, I'd have to accept that the IOA got hit with an idiot ball and moved the chair to Area 51 instead of keeping it antartica, I'd have to accept that Status Quo is as god when its clearly a Goa'uld and that they could have killed ***** off and actually made it terrifying instead of going all comic book death on us.

No, I'm going to wait for hotpoint to write his XSGCOM version of Atlantis on http://www.tthfanfic.org/ as it'll make me feel a hundred times better. But if you want to incorprate a Super hive in to the plan go for it just don't tell me where you found it.

BTW if we end up on Plan C we'll be risking damaging canon so lets hope we either get plan A or B to work or we come up with a better plan as Plan C is pure desperation incarnate and plan D is even worse.

*snickers* by thejadefalcon on 2009-07-08 16:04:00 UTC Reply

I've heard that some people weren't impressed with Season Five (mostly because of Keller), but you're the first I've met. :D I've never actually seen Season Five (no TV connection), so I'm waiting for the DVD release.

*sighs* by raw_fo_tra_eht on 2009-07-09 00:21:00 UTC Reply

Keller is okay but compared to who she replaced, She just can't fill those shoes.
With a Science-fiction show you expect the finally to be big and changing not a mediocre episode that is as bad as that Doctor-lite episode in Series 2 of new-who.
Now if you'll excuse me its 21 minutes past midnight (GMT) where I am so I'm going to try and catch a few REM cycles.

I've never liked Doctor Who... by thejadefalcon on 2009-07-11 10:28:00 UTC Reply

or Battlestar Galactica 2004 (haven't seen the original). Those are the only sci-fi's I've never liked.