Subject: No kinetic barriers?
Author:
Posted on: 2015-08-17 14:35:00 UTC
How fast can Star Trek space ships move when they don’t travel FTL? There’s probably some hand-wavy hyperspace explanation for FTL travel, but at very high STL velocity, every particle of cosmic dust should punch a micro-hole through a space ship that is neither heavily armored nor equipped with some sort of shield against fast-moving objects.
HG
This is a delightfully fascinating, geeky conversation, and I really wish I could participate in it. Alas, though I have a Trekkie character, I have not quite managed to become one myself.
~Neshomeh
I've seen four-and-a-quarter of the Star Trek movies, and... uh... maybe the same number of episodes? Everything I know, I learned by cultural assimilation and looking at the wiki. ^_^
hS
My eyes tend to glaze over when that stuff comes up. Unless I happen to know something about the real science that tells me what I'm hearing is silly (lots of the biology/medicine in Trek good grief), I'm usually pretty happy to accept that it works because Future and not try to think about it. ^_^;
~Neshomeh
Just reverse the polarity of the neutron flow and bounce the graviton particle beam off the main deflector dish. That's the best way to make popcorn.
-Phobos, BS Engineer
That's why I sicced Artell on it; so I can have the discussion with someone without actually having to have it here. I'll leave everyone here to quibble with the scifi details. :>
-July
As such, it gets rekt by torpedo bombers, massed fighters, and FTL-capable missiles. That's always struck me as weird; why aren't there ever fighters in Star Trek? I mean, classic-style beam phasers are bloody awful as point defence, so you'd think an enterprising group (if you'll pardon the pun) would scrape together a cargo vessel and a load of shuttlecraft, glue some photon torpedo tubes on the outside, and have a ball. Seen from above, the Galaxy-class is literally a bloody bullseye. So, er, yeah. Star Trek ships conform to very outmoded concepts of naval engagement, but without it we wouldn't have much of a story, now would we? =]
As Artell mentioned at some length, she's a long-range exploration spaceship - think of her as a Coast Guard cutter rather than a warship at all. Sure, she's got enough teeth to put up a fight, but that's definitely not her primary mission.
Also, there's an easy handwave to get rid of fighters - all you need to do is say that small craft can't carry shields capable of taking a direct shot from a capital ship's phaser banks, and give said capital ships a lower-power, faster-firing mode, and suddenly fighters start to look a lot more like skeet than a viable strategy. Space fighters in general are conforming to very outmoded (relative to the 24th century) concepts of naval combat as well.
There actually are fighters in Starfleet in the TNG era onwards in the canon, but they don't really feature until the Dominion War because they are meant for war, not peaceful things. Doesn't Wesley fly in a trainer fighter squadron when he's in the Academy and he gets in trouble over that thing?
But if you really want to break the Star Trek universe (especially TNG onwards), consider why drones are not more of a thing. Why send a trillion tons of battleship and risk a thousand crew when you can just hurl a fleet of USVs at your enemy instead? Signal delay is not a valid excuse since you have advanced computers and subspace communications.
They're mentioned in the Dominion War. "Fighter Shuttles." But you do have an excellent point as to why the FLAGSHIP OF THE FEDERATION doesn't have a wing of space-ready "Get Rekt" little ships at the ready just in case stuff gets real.
As in, "looks like the misshapen offspring of a bargain-basement Thunderbird 2 knockoff and a Soviet ice cream van" shuttlecraft. A carrier squadron with dedicated fighter-bomber aspects up against a load of Galaxies would make Wolf 359 look like a seam coming loose on a teddy bear. However, I do admit they're a step in the right direction.
Actually, that's a point. How many Galaxies does it take to kill a Colonial Battlestar with full Viper assets?
Something possibly of note is that (in the reimagined series at least) the Colonial Battlestars appear to use some manner of chemical propellant for their main weapons. Now, space combat, as any fule kno, occurs over very large distances. This implies that the projectiles are moving very, very fast indeed, which in turn means that high explosives are going to be vastly less effective than simply using a more massive bullet. I wonder how Trek shields stand up to high-speed kinetic bombardment; after all, it's not like they're kinetic barriers. =]
How fast can Star Trek space ships move when they don’t travel FTL? There’s probably some hand-wavy hyperspace explanation for FTL travel, but at very high STL velocity, every particle of cosmic dust should punch a micro-hole through a space ship that is neither heavily armored nor equipped with some sort of shield against fast-moving objects.
HG
... sublight ('impulse') engines have been seen to drive a ship at up to 0.5c. But given that Trek ships routinely warp space to travel, that doesn't necessarily mean it's travelling at half light-speed relative to stuff just outside the window. It's all a bit handwavy, to be honest.
hS
Though precisely what they do is anyone's guess. =]
It's more that we don't know how it does it or why; is it some kind of space handbrake or minor shield? We just don't know.
However, that said, I do recall mention of navigational deflectors, so maybe that's what makes a tin frisbee dustproof. =]
... inertial damp(en)ers are there to stop the fact that you're accelerating at thousands of gravities from making your crew into jam. They damp(en) the effect of inertia while the ship accelerates (inertia being basically the resistance of all objects to changing their velocity).
And you're welcome. ^_^
hS
Yup. In fact, tactical short-range hops similar to what you're talking about are known as the Picard Maneuver.
Although the intent in this case is different, the distances involved are probably on the same sort of scale to what you're talking about.
- Irish
It's a mystery on the level of "how is it that when two spaceships rendezvous on Star Trek, they are always oriented to the same plane?"
In the reimagined series, the main guns have massive muzzle flashes consistent with extremely scaled-up conventional weapons. As for the second point, well, it rather depends on the field of battle. I dimly recall planetary and stellar gravity playing hob with entering and exiting warp, buti might be wrong. In deep space, however, this is obviously not an issue. Galaxies also seem a bit more nimble than battlestars at sublight speeds, so that might be to it's advantage at longer ranges, dodging the Mercury-class's long guns as it closes range at impulse.
Whatever happens, it's a cool as hell image. =]
... scribbled a quick picture of two Galaxies mobbing a Battlestar... yeah, it is.
hS
(The Galaxies are to approximate scale with the Battlestar. Ish.)
hS
Nah, I guess not, otherwise surely they would have mentioned Space Battleship Yamato :P
If you wanted a bigger tournament, I could probably name some more, although I might have to go to some pretty obscure series - you've certainly covered most of stuff that immediately sprang to mind.
- Irish
I didn't think they'd be THAT much bigger... I didn't imagine that Moya would outweigh Trek's Galaxy class, either. I could swear I remember her being described in terms of football fields. O.o
~Neshomeh
There is also this rather cool website. Just click on the '10X', '100X' etc. tabs to see comparisons of various ships, drones and creatures. Thought it might interest you.
- Irish
If someone comes up with something that's too big or small to appear on the poster, I'll probably be cribbing it from there.
Actually, I'll probably get the next image for the Retribution-class from there anyway; it's in colour!
hS
And the bracket is now full, with 16 entrants. Some of whom are... um... quite silly. Yes.
hS
The Enterprise-J is a gorgeous ship. Can I get that TV show instead of the films?
hS
To refrain from putting an 1812 expy in my missions with Doktor Trollenfisch and Gabrielle. I think him and our resident Cutest Flareon Ever would get along well. =]
How long will the Vipers last against a Galaxy, with Battlestar support? Loved that description of the 'fighters' by the way.