The PPC Posting Board - Latest posts

The whole point of this approach is to let us forget about her, not to tell every newbie about her.

If you think a fuller version of this is required, I can probably pull together links to every thread that either a) involved a Zdimensia vote, b) was used as evidence in one, or c) was posted by her or her meat-puppets after Bramandin's ban.

hS

zdimensia expressed a Very Strong Desire to have her full story made available on the wiki. I think that this is actually a good idea, because then everybody who genuinely wants to know what happened can just read it up and doesn't need to ask on the Board. We may also want to link this page on the "FAQ: For Newbies"; after all, several Newbies – who may or may not have been the same person – asked about it. Since we obviously won't ever agree on the truthfulness of any abridged version, this page should just consist of a very short explanation of the reason why it exists, and a list of links to every archived thread that involved zdimensia, Bramandin etc. If the community agrees that we should have this page, I may volunteer to set it up.

On a related note, I noticed that Bramandin's agents and their missions vanished from the wiki. I would have preferred to see them moved to Out of Continuity.

HG

See, I totally agree with what you said. I just hate this fic. Probably because the bad things it does are all things that really bug me, and that makes it hard to enjoy the good stuff.

"...I did once eliminate an uncanonical planetary system, which was significantly larger. My partner and I used a Sun Crusher."

"I am *not* eating a hamantasch with meat in it," Dawn said quietly to Abaddon. "Not a chance."

"You don't eat meat to begin with," Abaddon pointed out. He picked one up a little gingerly, and stared at it for a bit before finally taking a bite. "...this isn't bad. You ought to try the sushi version."

"Ooh, they made those?" Abaddon pointed to them. "I don't even care they're not cookies--I'm off." She waved to Sophie, adding a quick "Nice meeting you!" before walking quickly away towards the right table.

--
((I'm so sorry for my general lack of quick replies on this thread. I'm normally better about it, but this year...not as much, somehow. It's nothing to do with you, and I apologise for any frustration it may have caused. ~Z))

-Any THREAD which is started with the intent of discussing Zdimensia will be deleted without warning.

--Where this thread was started by a current Board user, the Nameless Admin will contact them off-Board to explain.

--Where it is started by a new user (as Nony's was), the Nameless Admin should make an effort to contact that user; however, this is not required for obvious meat-puppets (such as this Anonymous, or Nony).

-Any instance of Zdimensia's name (any of her names, or her sock puppets' names) in the SUBJECT LINE of a post will be 'silently' removed, and a note added in the text of the post itself. Ie, you can find it if you click through, but there's no sign of it on the Front Page proper.

-Any user confessing to be Zdimensia will have that confession deleted, and will be blocked (the ban already exists, of course). The Nameless Admin will post on another thread they have been in to state that a previous ban has been enforced, and provide contact details to discuss it.

-If someone strongly suspects that another user is a Zdimensia sock, they should contact the Nameless Admin. The Nameless Admin should then obtain an email address for the suspect and ask them directly about their identity. Zdimensia has not, previously, shown much propensity for lying when directly asked, probably because her causus belli is linked to her identity. A confession should be treated as above.

-Literal meat-puppets of Zdimensia - ie, 'different people' who exist solely to post messages originating from her - will be treated identically to sock-puppets. Having different hands on the keyboard does not change the person driving the words.

Better?

hS

A blanked post with a Nameless Admin reply is an invitation to questions, and (at least for me) is a rotten thing to have to keep seeing for the next two weeks, until it drops off the front page.

hS

In the past few weeks, we have had multiple 'third parties' posting as or about Zdimensia.

-This very thread.

-Palin

-Nony

Arguably, the current thread has been productive, but the previous two absolutely have not been. Every time one of these comes up, conversation on the Board shuts down - I assume because everyone rolls their eyes and goes "oh no, not more drama!". Every time it happens, well-intentioned people who are missing key facts stand up and insist that the actions taken were incorrect, or should be debated at length. Every time it happens, multiple people are made abjectly miserable by having to stare at it every time they scroll down the Board.

Zdimensia wants us to keep thinking about her. I argue strongly that if someone's sole purpose is to get us doing that, they should be deleted on sight.

hS

Contrary to rumour, there hasn't actually been a mass blocking of groups of IP addresses. The only person who's been 'caught' by a previously blocked IP was, in fact, a sock or meat-puppet of Zdimensia.

Zdimensia is a banned user, and technical measures will continue to be used to enforce that ban. This discussion is about what actions the Nameless Admin should be empowered to make when those measures fail.

hS

When you brought up villains being portrayed as heroes, my mind immediately went to Loki. Characters of his type (not villains, per se, but incredibly adaptable trolls) would probably be amused to no end by a lot of badfic. If they were more or less in their right mind they would probably try to take advantage of the situation.

Not that I imagine Loki particularly would have many opportunities to do this, because he tends to be one of the most butchered characters I've seen in MCU fanfic. I think his opinion of his portrayals in fanfic would range from amusement to anger, depending on the particular portrayal.

Loki doesn't think of himself as a villain, and neither do a lot of fanfic writers. Fundamentally we see agreement, but the problem arises when you look at the way the fanwriters tend to defend him, which more often than not is portraying him as weak, or more victimized than he was in canon. I don't think Loki would appreciate that.

And I also think he wouldn't much like any fanfic that had him too far out of character. Fundamentally Loki and most other villains like who they are. Seeing someone twist their personality to the point most badfics go to would probably not make them happy.

Besides, I've seen a fair amount of goodfic that's managed to portray villains as good guys to at least some extent. If it can be done well, there's no need for them to approve of it being done badly.

TL;DR: Using Loki as an example, I think that it's unlikely that badfic interpretations of villains as good guys would please the villains much, since it usually involves some warping of character. Also I've seen that done well, so there's no real use to doing it badly.

I... don't hate it? I read it to the end. Let's see if I can figure out why.

Here are the problems with it:

1. Underage green rider. Why. I mean, it's explained why, and I infer he's about sixteen at the time of the story, so not exactly a child... but he would've been about fourteen when his dragon started rising. That's pretty hard to get around.

2. The "green riders always receive during mating flights" thing. Even if McCaffrey believed that, which wouldn't surprise me, it's not actually spelled out anywhere that I'm aware of.

2.5. Even if that were the case, the way that first sex scene is written shows everyone quite sufficiently in command of themselves to do things any way they choose. BS and more BS.

3. Yeah, all that "baby" and "sweetheart" stuff with someone you just met is yucky.

4. Kith is definitely a bit too wise and knowing.

5. The "after-flight congratulations" thing. Is... not a thing. And it weirds me out a lot. Mind your own business, people!

6. Some minor stuff, like the names all clearly being derived from modern Earth names (even if this is an early Pass, that's still off) and that the verb "breathe" should have an E on the end.


But there are things I appreciate, too.

1. The overall message seems to be "don't be inconsiderate brutes to green riders, they are people, too." This is good!

2. The things that are bad are treated as bad. The people responsible are called out on it.

3. I quite like all the care and consideration S'ven shows to J'son. Correct me if I'm missing something, but it seems to me that that's well done.

4. The writing, mechanically, is pretty good overall.

5. The author seems to have really thought about why things are the way they are, canonically and for the scenario they're writing, and are carrying out the consequences logically. The abuse isn't random, nor is it presented as a given: it's the result of a class of young riders being brought up too quickly in order to fill thinning ranks, without adequate instruction on Weyr ethics due to the deaths of two weyrlingmasters in a row. That, I think, is something that could happen. (See Dragonflight; you fail to properly educate the weyrlings, deliberately or otherwise, and bad things can happen.) This isn't treated as an excuse, but as a problem, and one that must be addressed even more urgently now that the Pass is over and there's no more fighting to keep the riders busy.


Let me just say I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, you don't have to like it if it rubs you the wrong way, but that's my take on it.

~Neshomeh

Since a few people objected, I realized silent editing's a bad move, and we should generally avoid that or general censorship of our discussions (such as deletions of us talking about zdimensia).

However, what I would propose is that attempts to appeal zdimensia's ban (either by herself or by third parties) be either deleted completely or have their text wiped with an Admin-provided explanation of the ban as the only reply. The reason I'm proposing this is that zdimensia is really abusing the idea of coming back far in the future to appeal this, and that her still trying to get back in here/still being interacted with isn't healthy for her or for us.

Therefore, I propose we all avoid replying to zdimensia threads, and, if newbies jump in on one, we point them at The Explanation real quick.

- Tomash

Most significantly: I also disagree with silent editing. That seems far too heavy for something that's really a pretty minor nuisance.

I don't think we need to formalize things for third parties that are not zdimensia. There's a lot of possible ways that those could go- from this one (a relatively reasonable discussion, I think?), to ones that turn out to be yet another sockpuppet- I'd rather not set hard rules now.

The PPC tries to keep themselves secret. Most of the time, the canons are ignorant. But some canons know.

1. Omnipotent/omniscient deities who can be expected to have knowledge of the full multiverse know without having to find out. Aslan, Illuvatar, and Madoka have been established to know of the PPC. Omnipotent/omniscient deities tend to be hands-off and to care about the free will, but will occasionally step in when they have been maligned directly.

2. Very powerful characters, though not omniscient, are more likely to find out. Death from Discworld is aware of the PPC; so is Father Christmas from Narnia and Ponch from Young Wizards. They tend to be the type not to interfere with agents' work, and to be quite cordial when encountered.

3. Characters who are insane enough to see through SEP fields and perceive the multiverse. Discworld's Altogether Andrews has one or more personalities that know about the PPC. The A-Team's Murdock has managed to retain vague memories between neuralyzations, probably because of his unusually flexible mind, but seems content to stay within his own world. Characters whose mental illness or insanity or strange outlook lets them see the PPC tend to also be pretty accepting of the PPC's presence, since it's no more odd than any other part of their lives, and are unlikely to be believed by other canons in any case.

4. Characters who are very, very good at analysis, to the point that they can detect tiny clues that the agents left behind before the canon snaps back. So far the only character in this category is Sherlock Holmes, who has on a few occasions figured out that something odd is going on. The more in-character he is, the more likely he is to use his detective abilities to suss out the PPC. Luckily, the closer to IC he is, the more likely he is to be fighting the Suefluence and to recognize the PPC as allies. He is usually neuralyzed at the end of a mission, but because of his abilities, is likely to figure it out all over again.

5. Characters who live in a metafictional continuum and can recognize the PPC as multiverse travelers. In this category: The characters in Gorillaz and the Doctor's TARDIS. Characters like Deadpool and the inhabitants of the Thursday Next continuum are likely to figure it out, too, but this hasn't yet been observed.

6. Gaspode and other minor characters who are both very perceptive and very easily overlooked. When they repeatedly see the PPC fix problems in their continuua, and the agents forget to wipe their memories because they're so forgettable, they may become allies. Gaspode from Discworld was the first, and can be expected to help agents. Luckily his awareness doesn't harm his home continuum because he canonically knows a whole lot more than he tells.

7. 1984's Big Brother, who was directly clued in by a rogue PPC agent. Unfortunately, Big Brother could be anything from a figurehead to a concept to an icon of the government of Oceania--he may not be a person at all. Luckily, 1984's technology is stuck at the 1950s Earth level thanks to constant warfare and a repressive government, and he's unlikely to ever make his way out of his own world. That does, unfortunately, mean that any agents doing a mission in 1984 have to stay constantly disguised and in character, making sure to use their technology only when they are not on camera. Whether Big Brother wants to steal PPC technology or actually invade the multiverse is unknown, but the PPC isn't keen to find out. Luckily 1984 badfics are rare.

If we're having a general discussion of procedures/rules/whether to ban someone/..., I'd be willing to allow mention of zdimensia (and aliases) as an example or precedent because it'd be kinda hard to argue that a situation is like one of zdimensia's bans if we can't mention her without it getting edited out.

Outside of that context, "no references to zdimensia on the Board" sounds like a useful policy, and I support it.

I'd also like to propose the same policy for the Discord - discussion of zdminesia shall be deleted (with private explanation) outside of policy discussions related to bans and the scope of the Constitution and so on (which might come up on the Discord in passing)

- Tomash

Those banned IP addresses are the only reason zdimensia is not popping up several times a day. If you want their new tactic to be bombarding the Board so fast that they overwhelm the Nameless Admin then, by all means, remove the IP bans. I don't think that is a situation we want to find ourselves in, so the IP bans should probably stay.

-Phobos

I don't know what to think here, honestly. I agree with these proposals in response to Zdimensia and only Zdimensia, but I can't help worrying that it could set a bad precedent. I don't think it's going to lead, slippery-slope style, to outright censorship of everything anyone says on the Board, but the idea of deleting everything posted about a specific user from here on out just doesn't sit well with me.

However, I recognize that what's happened here will just keep happening. Zdimensia will, in all probability, continue to either evade the ban outright; advocate for herself under different usernames; harass people she believes to be responsible for her ban across several slices of the Internet outside of the Board; and/or find friends to advocate for her. None of these behaviors are acceptable, and to my knowledge, Zdimensia is the only person who's done all of these things. This proposal would almost certainly be effective at stopping all of this, which I think it's safe to say is a goal we all ultimately share. Less drama is always good.

To be perfectly clear, then: I am not voting either way on this proposal. This post is meant to just lay out my thoughts on the matter and possibly spur some good discussion. With that being said, I think the proposal needs to be amended.

As I understand it, the Nameless Admin has blocked a rather large set of IP addresses in an effort to stop Zdimensia from evading the ban. If this proposal goes into effect, I think that that blanket IP ban would be unnecessary and should therefore be removed.

1. To the extent that the post can attributed to Zdimensia or a known and confirmed alternate account, then it may be deleted. However, if there is any doubt that the source might actually indeed be an independent individual than it should not be deleted. I do not agree with any silent editing, I think we as a community have the right to know if the Nameless Admin has altered a post.
   
   2. Nameless Admin communication regarding action taken, I agree with this provision.
   
   3. User Confessions, I agree with it as to Zdimensia directly, however, I do not agree with regards to third parties that are not Zdimensia. I think they should be advised and then asked if they wish to be a part of the community, if after this warning they make it clear that they are only hear regarding Zdimensia, then it may be blocked.
   
   4. Zdimensia Sock Puppets, I agree with this provision.

There's not much to say. zd has shown themselves unable to function in the community, and unable to leave the community without enforced ruling.

What else can we do?

Because a big part of what made Discworld great and special and all that is the humanization of the inhuman. Death (not death, but Death) is a product of humanity, so he is very human. So's... well, everyone. Dwarves and Trolls think differently, but they're still people. Thief of Time showed us how little it took to humanize the most inhuman characters of the lot.

Death is the emblem of that. He's also one of Discworld's finest characters.

Imho, if we ban someone, that means we do not want to see or hear from them again. That's the point of a ban.

(Funnily enough, I mentioned this in the discord today.)

My vote for this or some variant of this is aye.

Why did I say that? Because The Dresden Files has an excellent portrayal of Hades. It's hilarious.

Dresden also has fun with Odin. And Santa Claus. Dresdenverse!Santa is amazing. And kinda scary.

I've been spelunking though AO3. Haven't really found mission fuel yet... but here are a few notes:

-There's a lot of Menolly/Robinton. Not an Offense, but... well. Squick.

-There is a F'lar/F'nor fic. Called it. Blech.

-I found a fic (Slight NSFW, Dragonquest spoilers) of F'nor apologizing to Brekke for what he did. People who have read Dragonquest, you... probably know what I mean.

It's about two paragraphs, but it's pretty good, as fixfic goes.

-Sheesh, why is there so much crossover?

-Ooooh. Thaaaat's why. It's so that people can use mating flights as an excuse to get their favorite characters shipped. I am... not happy. Then again, some of them are honest crossovers, so that's fine.

-As such, people with knowledge of canon for Voltron, MCU, and various other continua should look at some of these and see if they're any good. Assuming, of course, that any of those people have an interest.

-this Harry Potter x-over is pretty bad. Not sure it can really be missioned, but it's bad.

-There's a lot of stuff that slightly breaks canonical dragon role stuff. Like female bronze riders. /shrug. I'm not going to complain.

-No Sues yet. The closest I've found is this fic, which has romance and "canon characters came to earth" and such, but I don't think our character is a Sue. So... nope.

-I think I hate this fic (NSFW). It's... not particularly bad, as fics go? I just hate it. Because greenriders. And violating canon a number of ways to create H/C. And bringing in sexual abuse to create H/C, abuse that feels kind of... unlikely in canon? (because apparently the Weyrleaders are aware and just... do nothing?). And... wow, those are not things you call someone you just met, mating flight or no. And I think that dragon might be borderline speshul.

I hate canonical violation to force a type of relationship. I especially hate slash I consider badly written. Because I feel that all too often authors writing M/M [EXCESSIVELY LONG RANT WITH SEVERAL DIGRESSIONS ELIDED] and that's why it's important that arrays are indexed from 0, not 1.

...Given, there's probably an interesting oneshot trapped inside this mess, struggling to get out, but it would be closer to what Nesh posted for the racing prompt then this fic.