The PPC Posting Board - Latest posts

The harassment amendment as written seem good enough. It's not perfect, and I might have some comments on how to tweak it later, but I think I'd be happy with it going in.

The discussion amendment is good to go (I helped write it, after all).

The chatter amendment seems unnecessary and a bad idea, and I think it'd stifle discussion by making people worried about having their conversations be "too long" or drive good discussions off the Board that other people want to see. If that situation comes up, we can poke people on a case-by-case basis. It doesn't need to be in the rules.

- Tomash

First of all, thank you to the people who supported me. I believe it was Maxewell who provided and alternative explanation on my comments and I have to say that he was right on the money. I hate myself for how I acted during the whole shebang and I cannot apologize for my insensitivity enough.

Also, I want to make it very clear that I DO NOT HATE IXIMAZ. I am upset, yes, and angry, but I make NO accusation and I expect NO ONE to share my views. And I am so hurt that someone could think that of me. Why didn't you just come to ME? I wouldn't... I didn't even know this was an issue. I would have apologized and explained in a heartbeat. This isn't... This was never what I wanted and it kills me that this made it to the Board as a real issue before I even knew somebody thought I was out of line.

And I also have to note that this was exactly the same pattern that led to JulyFlame leaving. We as a community have to learn from that, and it doesn’t feel like we have.

And I am sorry, because I know you're doing the best you can in a crappy position and it's not your fault someone decided you were the one to rope in.

I'm just about fed up, is all, and I have to do the best I can.

~Neshomeh

Uh...

Wow. This. Absolutely this. Thank you, Nesh. I entirely support everything you just said.

Assuming that part of the 'all of you, stop it' was directed at me, I will now stop commenting on that part of the thread. People are perfectly able to look at the situation without my input.

hS

And I've seen the log, which I very, very much appreciate.

What I see there is a hurt, upset kid (Quincy and Sprinkles are both about 14, I think?) being hurt and upset and maybe looking for support and reassurance.

I also see their accurate perception that people tend to unconditionally favor Iximaz over all comers--note Mattman's comment "Just how bad was the newbie?" indicating that anyone who doesn't get on with Ix MUST be bad. (And preemptive apologies if I'm reading it wrong, but it does seem telling.)

I also see Larfen's accurate perception that Ix leaving has happened before, and may logically be predicted to happen again. Could he have expressed it more kindly? Sure. But I'm here to tell you he's not the only one getting frustrated with cyclical drama.

I also see Iximaz in the Discord, making passive-aggressive, emotionally manipulative remarks, when they'd said they were going to stay out of the Discord. I thought that was a good, responsible decision. I want to know why they weren't called on not sticking to it. I also want to know why someone thought it would be a good idea to run and tattle to them in the first place. Did you really think that would result in anything good, for Ix or for anyone else? Why?

Because as Ix is a member of this community, so Ix is responsible for their behavior, just like the rest of us, and so we are responsible for holding them accountable. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: enabling someone with a problem is not helpful to them. All of you, stop it.

~Neshomeh

I don't bedgrudge you for speaking up, hS. However, I do find your read of the situation inaccurate, speaking as someone who was at there for part of it.

I sincerely apologize for offending you if I did so. I know I can speak rashly sometimes, and genuinely didn't mean to insult or hurt you.

You say: Quincey, at the least, and most of the chat in general, had moved the discussion to Sprinkles.

That... isn't true. Absolutely, at 11:06 (by the transcript), the conversation moved to Mr. Sprinkles, but at 11:13 Quincy Jones moved it back to Iximaz (in the fourth comment). Larfen then continued to discuss Iximaz, and Good Mod Addict's 'they' cannot refer exclusively to Mr. Sprinkles without some seriously contorted reading. At best it could refer to both (as 'the relevant people have left'), but the most natural read is that 'it's not a question of deserving' - as a reply to 'y'all deserve to have [Iximaz] back' - confirms the whole comment as a reference to Iximaz.

Quincy Jones' comment #5 directly follows that point. The conversation was very clearly about Iximaz at that moment.

~

I do not feel that using a PPC public space to say 'I'm angry at [person who isn't here]' is ever acceptable. I would be and have been deeply upset when people have done that to me, and I'm sure most people would be.

hS

"Really sorry, it's the first time we participate to this event. Marina?"

"Go for it. I'll be watching for now."

Richard went to the gift balls left, took one on the left and opened it.

"Ooh, a MLP soundtrack album," Richard said with a small smile once he had taken a look at his gift. "Is there any Equestria Girls song on it?"

Marina rolled her eyes. "Don't you already have these ones?" She just could imagine how her little sister would have reacted instead of her partner. And how... enthusiast she would have been. She had saw her receive albums like this one before.

((I present all my excuses to the other participants for dragging down this game because of my misunderstanding of the rules for picking gifts. On the plus side... we're still sort of early for Chinese New Year?

Hardric, apologizing once again.))

To the first comment: Considering that Quincey was on the other side of the drama the last time, that comment wasn't ridiculous to make.

To the second comment: Nothing about this comment is an issue as far as I can see. It was related to the discussion, and was not written in a way to stir up drama. If anything, it was letting everyone know that that side of the previous drama is closed.

To the third comment: that was before the request to drop the subject, and in response to a very simplified summary of what had happened in the previous drama. The request to drop came two messages later.

To the fourth comment: This was the actual response to the request to drop it. At worst, this reads as a bit of ranting, and it is mostly due to the simplified summary not including anything of Sprinkles' side of the story.

And to the fifth comment: This could be an issue, maybe, if the conversation was talking about Ix at this point. Quincey, at the least, and most of the chat in general, had moved the discussion to Sprinkles. Not Ix, but Sprinkles.

The fact that Quincey apologized afterwards, and that the chat in general shut down the conversation when it began to be an issue, shows that there isn't really a problem there. The community did what we should have done, and trying to follow up events which should just be allowed to die with this is not going to help.

the general commentary about Iximaz, I did not, and still do not believe that it was meant as an attack on their person. Given what happened which made them leave in the first place, which, I'm just going to paraphrase here, "amounted to a painful and horrible situation", I don't think that anyone in the PPC is angry towards Ix for what happens.

I tried to distract from the commentary, because frankly, I thought it could lead into a bigger discussion, which should be on the Board or someplace where everyone could see it.

tl;dr: I think it might've been blown out of proportions, but I can see why the comments could be seen as an attack.

Please do provide those logs, because as matters stand, that is not a natural read of the situation. Quincy Jones mentions being angry twice, and the first one is very clearly anger directed at Iximaz.

Quincy Jones-Yesterday at 11:02 PM
I'm also worried (I know, I know, why the heck is Quincy of all people worried, it's her darn fault in the first place). I'm still angry, but... I'm worried.

hS

Here's Quincy Jones' five problematic comments from the 21st:

--Agreeing with the concern expressed by two other users, but making sure people know that they're angry.--

Quincy Jones-Yesterday at 11:02 PM
I'm also worried (I know, I know, why the heck is Quincy of all people worried, it's her darn fault in the first place). I'm still angry, but... I'm worried.

--Sympathising with another user, but making sure people know why they're angry.--

Quincy Jones-Yesterday at 11:06 PM
hugs a GMA
Sprinkles is gone forever, by the way. Not from life... but he's never coming back to the PPC.

--On the back of a summary of the relevant events, making sure people know that there are other wounded parties.--

Quincy Jones-Yesterday at 11:11 PM
That is not the full story, but it's not my place to tell it.

--Following a request to drop the subject, making sure people know that they don't want to drop the subject, and setting up a 'me or Ix' conflict - not again that Iximaz was not present.--

Quincy Jones-Yesterday at 11:13 PM
sighs Honestly I feel like we're just whitewashing over the issue, but since the relevant people have left, I'll let it lie.
But... I'll be really happy if Iximaz comes back to y'all. I will be, honest. Y'all deserve to have them back. It's just... if they do return, it's probably going to be "you guys" instead of "us".

--With no real additional context, making sure people know they're still angry, and still don't want to drop the subject.--

Quincy Jones-Yesterday at 11:16 PM
sighs again
gets angry
This may be over for y'all, but it'll haunt me for the rest of my life.

In isolation, some of these posts are understandable (making people aware that Mr. Sprinkles won't be returning, or highlighting that the description offered isn't entirely complete). But with the five of them coming in a 15 minute period, despite repeated requests from other people to drop the subject (and these are Quincy's only comments in that time period, followed by one that said 'Agreed [to topic change]. Apologies for inciting.'), there is a very clear picture being built up of someone who wants to be sure nobody forgets that they Have A Problem with Iximaz.

I will hold off on commenting on the other person I mentioned until they have a chance to reply for themselves.

~

Is this Horrible No-Good Drama? No - that's hyperbole on your part. But this is a problem, and one that has the potential to escalate. Rather than waiting for it to come to that, I felt it was far more sensible to nip a relatively small issue in the bud.

hS

Quincy Jones-Yesterday at 11:11 PM
That is not the full story, but it's not my place to tell it.

I saw that comment as being irked at the fact that however the drama was being referred to in chat wasn't accurate.

Quincy Jones-Yesterday at 11:13 PM
sighs Honestly I feel like we're just whitewashing over the issue, but since the relevant people have left, I'll let it lie.

To me, this comment makes me think the same thing - just going over a couple points of the incident does not cover it in its entirety, and that can be, frustrating.

Quincy Jones-Yesterday at 11:16 PM
sighs again
gets angry
This may be over for y'all, but it'll haunt me for the rest of my life.

I see this at anger aimed at Quincy, herself. I thought it was anger at herself, because saying that it would haunt her means that she feels regret about the situation. I'll check in a bit, but I am overwhelmingly certain that there are logs to confirm that this anger is directed at herself.

- Maxewell's take on things

Thoth's last message was in response to an image (https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/177121066823450624/405060401294868483/image.jpg) that was apparently cut out by the copy&paste.

But as the Constitution makes very clear, the health of the PPC Community depends on people speaking up when they see a problem. I was shown a potential problem; I sought out the rest of the information; I agreed that there was a problem; and I spoke up.

The 'massively warped view' you speak of is my own, so thanks for that.

hS

As the entirety of the log has been posted already- I can confirm, at least from memory that's how it went down- can someone please point out the Horrible No-Good Drama?

During the conversation on (I believe) the 21st, you made five separate comments to remind everyone present that you were angry at Iximaz. The way you present them makes it clear that you want people to come around to your viewpoint:

Quincy Jones-Yesterday at 11:11 PM
That is not the full story, but it's not my place to tell it.

Quincy Jones-Yesterday at 11:13 PM
sighs Honestly I feel like we're just whitewashing over the issue, but since the relevant people have left, I'll let it lie.

Quincy Jones-Yesterday at 11:16 PM
sighs again
gets angry
This may be over for y'all, but it'll haunt me for the rest of my life.

You repeatedly raised and re-raised the point that you are angry at Iximaz. You didn't do this to try and resolve things with Iximaz, because Iximaz wasn't there. You didn't do it in a way that suggested you were looking for people to help you work through that anger. You did it in a way that suggested you were trying to make sure everyone remembered that (in your view) Iximaz Done Wrong.

As I said, I have no problem with you not liking Iximaz. What I have a problem with is you repeatedly bringing up the fact that you don't like Iximaz, in a way which can only result in either you getting told to stop - or people coming round to your point of view.

hS

Here is what I was given. The editorial comments are not mine.

hS

I support the first two amendments, but not the third, for basically the same reasons hS did.

As for the Discord thing... as someone who went and read the logs, that is a massively warped view of what happened, and I don't find it accurate at all. Nobody in any way had any intention of turning Discord against Ix. In fact, here's the tail of a response to Ix from the person who doesn't like Ix (sadly, Ix was already gone and didn't see it):

stop with the "I'm not welcome". That's my line. You are more welcome here than I ever was, and the only thing about that I begrudge you of is that you can't see it.

In fact, the individual said repeatedly that they would be glad to see Ix return, even if that meant they would no longer feel comfortable staying.

As for the "direct attack on Iximaz," I once again find this to be blown far out of proportion of what was actually said, unless I miss my mark on what you're referring to.

I have nothing further to say in this conversation, and no further remarks to make. My blood pressure does not need more of this drama.

Thoth out.

Alright. I'm not gonna say anything on the amendments, or even the event on Discord. I do not have enough caffeine in my system for that. However, I would propose that the relevant text from the 21st of January, or any other day being referenced, be screenshotted and copied so everyone knows exactly what's going on.