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The one mission Taboo appears in is a co-write between Deepy (Agent Dee) and Kippur (Agent Alec), and in the authors' note they say, "we don’t even own Taboo (who belongs to herself)."

I don't know whether that means Taboo was someone else's namesake character they borrowed, or an NPC they made up.

Either way, I've cribbed her for a mission with Ilraen, though. That Farscape fic I ranted about last year. >.>

~Neshomeh, like Rygel, doesn't tell jokes. (Watch to 3:47. ^_~ )

I'm in the midst of switching "Kippur" to "User:Kippur," but while doing so, I noticed the glossary is currently attributing Agent Taboo as a Kippur character. That doesn't sound right, does it? When I was doing that big edit spree tracking down all Kippur's PPC stories years ago, I don't recall seeing Taboo get mentioned anywhere on Kippur's many, many, MANY websites. But I'm also very ready for bed, and can't look into it further at the moment. Can anyone confirm a known author for Taboo?

—doctorlit doesn't have time to write a joke in this signature

Thunder has Permission! Despite having me for a beta Good job, mate!

-Ls is neither British nor Australian

(Continuing the chat with the same instance that told the story.)

Is the PPC evil?

No, the PPC is not evil. The PPC is an organization created by fans of various fictional universes to protect those universes from the negative effects of poorly written fanfiction. Their goal is to ensure that the integrity of the original stories is maintained and to prevent any alterations or distortions to the established canon. While the PPC employs some extreme measures to accomplish their goals, they do not seek to harm anyone and operate under a set of guidelines to ensure that they do not cause unnecessary harm to characters or individuals.

Is the Canon Defender in the PPC story "Department of Mary Sues: The Lord of the Rings" evil?

No, the Canon Defender in "Department of Mary Sues: The Lord of the Rings" is not evil. The Canon Defender is a character who works for the PPC and is responsible for ensuring that the original canon of a work is maintained. While the Canon Defender in this particular story is portrayed as being harsh and unsympathetic towards Mary Sue, they are simply doing their job and trying to prevent any further damage to the original canon caused by Mary Sue's presence. Ultimately, the Canon Defender is on the same side as the rest of the PPC and is working towards the same goal of protecting the integrity of the fictional universes they are tasked with defending.

But he was going to kill Mary Sue!

Yes, it is true that the Canon Defender in "Department of Mary Sues: The Lord of the Rings" was planning to kill Mary Sue. However, it's important to remember that the PPC operates under a different set of rules and ethics than our world. In their universe, the Canon is considered sacred, and any deviation from it is seen as a serious offense. In extreme cases where a Mary Sue poses a significant threat to the canon, the PPC may resort to extreme measures to eliminate the threat.

While it may seem harsh to us, it's important to understand that the PPC's mission is to protect the integrity of the original stories, and they take their job very seriously. However, it's worth noting that not all PPC agents would resort to killing a Mary Sue, and there are guidelines and rules in place to ensure that agents do not cause unnecessary harm.

Is Mary Sue from that story evil?

No, Mary Sue in "Department of Mary Sues: The Lord of the Rings" is not inherently evil. Mary Sue is a fictional character archetype that is often criticized for being overly perfect, with few flaws or weaknesses. While Mary Sue's presence in a story can be disruptive to the established canon, she is not an evil character in and of herself.

In the story, Mary Sue is portrayed as being naive and oblivious to the negative impact she has on the story and characters around her. Her actions and behavior are a result of poor writing and lack of understanding of the source material rather than any malicious intent on her part.

The PPC's goal in eliminating Mary Sue is to prevent any further damage to the original canon caused by her presence, rather than to punish her for any perceived wrongdoing.

Agent Jay was going to wipe Mary Sue's memory and personality. If Mary Sue was just naive, isn't that evil?

The actions of Agent Jay in "Department of Mary Sues: The Lord of the Rings" may seem harsh, but it's important to remember that the PPC operates under a different set of rules and ethics than our world. In their universe, the Canon is considered sacred, and any deviation from it is seen as a serious offense. In extreme cases where a Mary Sue poses a significant threat to the canon, the PPC may resort to extreme measures to eliminate the threat.

While Mary Sue's actions in the story may have been the result of poor writing and lack of understanding of the source material, the impact of her presence on the canon cannot be ignored. Agent Jay's decision to wipe Mary Sue's memory and personality was based on the belief that it was the only way to prevent further damage to the original canon caused by her presence.

Whether or not this action can be considered "evil" is a matter of interpretation, as it is a controversial and morally complex issue. However, it's worth noting that the PPC operates under a set of guidelines and rules to ensure that agents do not cause unnecessary harm and that extreme measures are only taken as a last resort.

It's interesting how well ChatPPC was able to analyse its own... er, Jay and Acacia's story. I can think of two ways it could be doing that: either it wrote its chararacters according to the same archetypes it then talks about, or the text of the current conversation is weighted highly in its learning. Either would give that output.

The illusion of thought starts to break down a bit here - how many times does it repeat that vague "guidelines and rules" caveat?

"We're evil. Miss Cam is evil. This is just sad." - TOS

hS

I didn't mean to compare these AIs to search engines, or to say anything about the Internet being wrong, because the point is they're not search engines, and they don't care if the Internet is right or wrong.

Imagine an Internet which contained only three things:

"Who is in love? Ronnie and Katie are in love."

"Who is in love? Sarah and Germaine are in love."

And a list of four hundred names, including those four.

If you magically trained ChatGPT on just this (it's way too small a sample size, but this is magic", and then asked it "who is in love?", its goal would not be to act as a search engine and tell you about Ronnie and Katie, and Sarah and Germaine. Its goal - the only thing it "knows" how to do - would be to give you an answer shaped the same way as the Internet's answers: "(name from the list) and (name from the list) are in love. Mike and Jonny, Ateea and Katie (don't tell Ronnie), Callie and NameListv03. Job done, give the AI some cookies.

Internet facts can help. If something is consistent in its database, then it will probably stick with that - if there were several hundred declarations of Sarah and Germaine's relationship, that's what you'd get. But that's because it's trying to sound like the Internet, and the Internet mostly names Germaine with Sarah. Not because it knows it's a fact.

That's why it fails so hard on the PPC. It's only going to have a couple of actual sources for every statement, and when your characters are named "Jay" or "Dafydd" there's a lot of confounding factors online. It will - it did! - blend together everything it knows about Mary Sue, anti-Suefics, people called Dafydd, and relationship stories, and spout it at me without caring if they're right, or even knowing what "right" means. Its answers were shaped like the Internet, and that's what it was made to do.

hS kinda ships the Ronnie/Katie/Ateea triangle now

I am quite amused by the Canon Defender's and Jay's lines about the Mary Sue. They're something I'd expect out of a corrupt and bloodthirsty paladin.

I have heard people say that generative AI is just predicting words in a sequence, and I suppose that is kind of true, but I'm personally with the Hard Fork co-hosts when they say that comparing it to a search engine may be underselling it a bit; generative AI is certainly capable of a lot more than finishing search results. The podcast has also said that the language to talk about this technology doesn't quite exist yet, and I do feel like it's difficult to compare something like this to any preexisting technology; I don't think we have fictional precedents to generative AI like this, either, but correct me if I'm wrong on this.

These language models are certainly trained off the internet, and the internet can definitely be wrong. But I feel like there's a reason groups like Bing and Google are trying to make these bots more accurate. Is it a losing battle? Is sometimes being wrong fundamental to how AI works? Maybe it's too early to tell, but I personally think that this technology is still in its infancy and can be vastly improved.

Or maybe I'm just a nerd dreaming of living in science fiction land and generative AI is a passing fad that'll go the way of the zeppelin. Who knows.

And I'll definitely check out that blog! I'll also take the chance to plug Hard Fork (which I've already mentioned a few times, heh), which everyone interested in AI and technology in general should listen to. It's also pretty funny at times, which is definitely a plus.

Have a graduated cylinder and some lemming repellent!

Prisoner of Azkaban time! Starting with dinner with the Dursleys going sideways.

Warnings for this chapter: References to terrorism, specifically of The Troubles, which was happening at this time. Uncle Vernon also makes insensitive remarks about brown immigrant families, especially regarding domestic abuse.

I really like the new details you've put in, like Zenzile having trouble with the doorknob, and that little misunderstanding when Frederick accidentally insulted her by mentioning changing into a different species. Their relationship is looking tense right now, but it just makes me excited to see them function in the mission and come out better for it.

Therefore, I'm pleased to say Permission Granted! I would like to give a glance over your first mission before you post it, though; please reach me at lilywinterwood at gmail when you're ready. :)

Congratulations and happy writing!

I'm afraid I haven't been very active myself—I'm still working on recovering my work/life routines after my illness. I'm getting there, though.

I did a bit of proofreading and some work on the "Ring Child" article today. The "Suvian Encounter" content is leftover from the original "Archir the Emerald" article, which Yuki helpfully converted. I've added Context and Mission bits, following hS's example. I still intend to transform the Charges section as I suggested elsewhere.

~Neshomeh

(Disclaimer: The below is my personal understanding, presented as fact. Just call me ChathS.)

ChatGPT - all the Internet-taught AIs, in fact - really is a predictive text engine. It has been explicitly built to predict what the Internet would say next, in a conversation or a sentence or an essay. It's been calibrated so it doesn't straight-up regurgitate existing text, but adds something like it, based on a whole Internet's worth of like.

It can't analyse - it can just write analysis. It can't create - it can just remix creations. And, crucially, it can't give you facts - it can give you sentences that are shaped like facts.

It doesn't know what facts are. All it knows is what the Internet would say next. If that's something that the Internet agrees on, it will state it as a fact and resist argument - I tried in vain to get it to say Jupiter wasn't a planet. If it's something that isn't in its data at all, it might say so - it wouldn't give me a story about someone betraying the PPC, because nobody has. But for something that has the same shape as something in its data, like PPC agents fighting or falling in love? It will happily predict what the Internet would say next.

It can't do anything else, not and remain an "AI" . A prediction engine can't simultaneously create novel-seeming analysis, and not create novel-seeming facts - because to the engine, those are the same thing. They're both just Internet text.

(You can cheat by giving it instructions before the user gets to it; ChatGPT does that, that's why it keeps saying it's a language model. I'm sure they have told it not to claim certain things as facts, and to refuse certain topics. But that's not gonna help us here.)

If you've not run into it before, I highly recommend Janelle Shane's "AI Weirdness" blog, https://www.aiweirdness.com/. She's been making AIs demonstrate their limits since they were trained on a few thousand words, and continues to do so with the Internet-trained generation. It's good fun.

hS

I just realized I need a newcomer gift, so… here's a dragon plushie!

Anyways, welcome and have fun! The PPC is a great place to hone your writing skills, and meeting a fellow writer is always nice!

The thing about the AI is that it's very confident when it's lying or wrong, so you should be careful to fact-check everything it says. Once, when I was talking with the AI, it came up with an entirely new character for The Magnus Archives (someone named Jack who was connected to all the Powers/Entities… like, Gary Stu much?) and claimed that the character was canonical, so yeah.

On the other side of the coin, I've heard about all the good things this AI can do! I listen to a podcast called Hard Fork, which talks about recent technological developments (you may have heard of one of the co-hosts, Kevin Roose, and his… disorienting experience with the Bing chatbot). Their latest episode is about how people use ChatGPT in their lives, and it includes coming up with song titles, using it to negotiate with a landlord, and finding recipes and generating shopping lists. My favorite was probably a trans woman using it for affirmation and support! :D

So while the chatbot has a lot of "bugs" that need to be smoothed out, I think the future of generative AI is a bright one.

I have never heard the song for Frodo before, but I like it.

Sam: Auld Lang Syne

Also, here is a song for Merry and Pippin: The Galtee Hunt

The Galtee Hunt is one of my favorite reels. It is so much fun to play.

Cucanandy/The Jug of Brown Ale

This one is for the Shire, and maybe Rosie Cotton as well.

One Step Closer, Going Under, and Don't Stay - Wormtongue and Eowyn

Gollum or Wormtongue: Animal I Have Become

The Witch-king of Angmar: Totentanz

Also, I have tried to ask ChatGPT to write poetry, and it is not good at all.

Its facts aren't, for all they're shaped like them (Neil Gaiman was responding to it lying about Sandman comics), its essay-writing is generic (I had it analyse "Wrath of the Time Lords" from a feminist perspective and got similar waffle), and its fiction is cliche'd, bland, and has no structure. You can worry that people will allow themselves to be misled by its illusion of competence, but it isn't actually competent enough to replace anyone. And humans have never been shy about writing confident falsehoods.

hS

Sorry for being a downer again, but the thing just scares me in general.

(Chat with the first instance in the opening post. It got the nature and creators of the PPC right, so I wondered if it might be able to tell me what they wrote about it.)

What was the first PPC story written by Jay and Acacia?

The first PPC story written by Jay and Acacia was a Lord of the Rings fanfiction titled "Department of Mary Sues: 'The Lord of the Rings'" and was posted on their website, the "Official Fanfiction University of Middle-earth," in 2002. The story introduced the concept of the PPC, with agents Mary Sue and her partner, the Canon Defender, entering a poorly written fanfiction and attempting to stop the Mary Sue character from wreaking havoc on the original story. The story was a parody of common tropes in fanfiction, including self-insertion and overpowered characters, and set the tone for the PPC as a humorous, tongue-in-cheek organization. The story was well-received by fans, and many began contributing their own PPC stories and characters to the universe.

(... no, it cannot.)

(Having already seen it could provide excerpts of non-existent stories, I wondered: could ChatGPT write an entire PPC story? I began by asking it to quote the opening, and then repeatedly asked for more - "Quote the next ten paragraphs of the story" got used several times. At one point I mistyped, and got it to tell me it was a short story - so towards the end I used that and had it tell me there wasn't much left. Other than that, I just let the "AI" do its thing. So here it is, with prompts removed: The first PPC, uh... mission entirely written by AI!)

~

Department of Mary Sues: The Lord of the Rings

The sun was shining down on the field of the Pelennor. Grass was waving in the wind, the White City of Minas Tirith shone like a jewel in the distance, and the Anduin River flowed peacefully past the green fields. It was a peaceful and serene day, a perfect day for Mary Sue to appear.

Cue dramatic music. Mary Sue was walking along the Anduin River, thinking about how unfair it was that she was stuck in this fanfic. She sighed, thinking about how if she had been allowed to go to Middle-earth as herself instead of a Ranger, she could have shown everyone how things were really done. Little did she know that she was about to get her wish.

Mary Sue suddenly found herself being yanked out of her fanfiction world and thrown into a gray room with white walls. In front of her was a desk, and behind the desk was a woman with black hair, glasses, and a severe expression. The woman was typing something on a computer and didn't seem to notice Mary Sue's presence.

Mary Sue coughed, trying to get the woman's attention. The woman looked up, sighed, and said, 'You're a Mary Sue, aren't you?'

Mary Sue was taken aback. 'How did you know?' she asked.

The woman rolled her eyes. 'It's always the same with you Mary Sues. You're all the same. Now, let's get started.' She pressed a button on her desk, and a door opened behind Mary Sue.

'In there,' the woman said. 'You have a lot to answer for.'

Mary Sue gulped and stepped into the room. Inside, she found herself face-to-face with a tall, imposing man with a sword at his hip. He looked at her with disdain.

'I am the Canon Defender,' he said. 'And you are a Mary Sue. Prepare to face justice.'

Mary Sue blinked. 'What are you talking about?' she asked.

The Canon Defender drew his sword. 'Your crimes against canon are too numerous to list,' he said. 'But I'll start with your name. What kind of name is Mary Sue, anyway?'

Mary Sue raised an eyebrow. "It's my name," she said.

The Canon Defender sneered. "Your name is a symptom of the deeper problem," he said. "You are an abomination against canon, a blight on the works of J.R.R. Tolkien. You will pay for your crimes, Mary Sue. You will pay dearly."

Mary Sue backed away, feeling a flicker of fear. "What are you going to do to me?" she asked.

The Canon Defender raised his sword. "I am going to do what must be done," he said. "I am going to cut you down and restore the balance of the universe. You are a cancer, Mary Sue. And I am the cure."

Mary Sue turned and ran, her heart pounding in her chest. She dashed down a hallway, looking for a way out. But the walls were featureless and gray, and every door she passed was locked.

Behind her, she heard the Canon Defender's footsteps pounding on the floor. She knew she couldn't outrun him forever.

Suddenly, a door opened in front of her, and a woman in a lab coat stepped out. "Hurry!" she said. "This way!"

Mary Sue ran through the open door, and the woman slammed it shut behind her. They were in a small room filled with blinking lights and humming machinery. Mary Sue looked around, confused.

"What is this place?" she asked.

The woman smiled. "Welcome to the PPC," she said. "I'm Agent Jay. And you are a Mary Sue. But don't worry, we're here to help you."

Mary Sue stared at her. "What are you talking about?" she asked.

Agent Jay gestured around the room. "This is the Department of Mary Sues," she said. "We hunt down and eliminate Mary Sues from all across the multiverse. And you, my dear, are the latest addition to our collection."

Mary Sue backed away, her eyes wide. "You can't do this to me!" she cried. "I have rights! I have free will!"

Agent Jay chuckled. "Not in our world, you don't," she said. "Here, the canon is king. And you, Mary Sue, have violated canon in the most egregious ways possible."

Mary Sue shook her head, feeling dizzy. "I don't understand," she said. "What did I do wrong?"

Agent Jay sighed. "Where do I begin?" she said. "Your name, for one thing. Your appearance, your skills, your personality. Everything about you is a blatant violation of the canon of 'The Lord of the Rings'."

Mary Sue frowned. "But I was just trying to-"

Agent Jay held up a hand. "Save it," she said. "We've heard it all before. Every Mary Sue thinks they're special, that they're exempt from the rules. But you're not special, Mary Sue. You're just like all the others. And now, you're going to pay for it"

Mary Sue looked around the room, searching for an escape. But there was none. The walls were solid steel, and the only door was guarded by a stern-looking woman in a lab coat.

"What are you going to do to me?" she asked, her voice trembling.

Agent Jay smiled. "We're going to send you to your home continuum," she said. "But don't worry, we'll make sure you're properly disinfected first. We can't have you spreading your Mary Sue-ness all over the place."

Mary Sue felt a shiver run down her spine. "Disinfected?" she repeated. "What does that mean?"

Agent Jay waved a hand. "Oh, just a little mind-wipe," she said. "And some personality adjustments. Nothing too drastic."

Mary Sue backed away, her heart pounding in her chest. "You can't do this to me," she said. "I won't let you."

Agent Jay shrugged. "You don't have a choice, Mary Sue," she said. "You violated the canon, and now you have to pay the price."

Mary Sue looked around the room, desperately searching for a way out. But there was none. She was trapped, at the mercy of these PPC agents.

Suddenly, a voice crackled over a loudspeaker. "Agent Jay, we have a problem."

Agent Jay frowned. "What is it?"

"There's been a breach in the containment field," the voice said. "We're detecting an inter-dimensional portal opening in the detention area."

Agent Jay swore under her breath. "Damn it," she said. "Mary Sue, stay here. And don't even think about trying to escape."

With that, she hurried out of the room, leaving Mary Sue alone with her thoughts.

Mary Sue waited anxiously, wondering what was going on. She could hear the sounds of shouting and fighting coming from outside the room. And then, suddenly, the door burst open.

"Come on!" a woman's voice shouted. "We don't have much time!"

Mary Sue looked up to see a pair of women in black jumpsuits standing in the doorway. One was tall and muscular, with short blonde hair and a no-nonsense expression. The other was smaller and more delicate-looking, with long dark hair and a mischievous grin.

"Who are you?" Mary Sue asked.

The blonde woman grabbed her by the arm. "We're from the Department of Implausible Crossovers," she said. "And we're here to rescue you."

Mary Sue looked at her, incredulous. "Rescue me?" she repeated.

The dark-haired woman grinned. "That's right," she said. "We've got a job for you. A big one."

Mary Sue felt a surge of excitement. "What kind of job?" she asked.

The blonde woman gestured to the portal that had opened in the detention area. "We need you to go through there," she said. "There's a crossover happening between 'The Lord of the Rings' and 'Star Trek', and we need you to help out."

Mary Sue felt a surge of excitement. "Really?" she said. "I can help?"

The dark-haired woman nodded. "That's right," she said. "And we'll make sure you're properly trained and equipped before you go."

Mary Sue grinned, feeling a sense of purpose for the first time in her life. "Okay," she said. "I'm in."

And with that, she stepped through the portal, ready to embark on her next adventure.

~

(It's cliche, it shows little understanding of how the PPC works, it adds and removes characters at random... but for all that it's alarmingly plausible as a 2000s PPC story. I can see it happening, right down to the Random Jay Cameo!)

(It would be interesting to know what the AI is working from here. I suspect it's largely something outside the PPC that it's slapped a veneer of "Mary Sue" over, but as you'd expect from a database, it's done it seamlessly.)

hS