The PPC Posting Board - Latest posts

As someone with my own share of issues, I say this: You're not really a bad Boarder, at least in my opinon. There are fics other than PPC ones we could disscuss, and not all of them have to be humorous.

Or else, what's the point, really?

I for one, agree with the first bit. My writing has improved dramatically since I first joined this, and it's extremely noticeable. I look back at my earlier work and it seems like it's been written by an entirely different person.

Maybe it's because I started caring. I first started writing stories and the like simply because my overactive imagination demanded it, but now that I've begun to care, actually put effort into what I put down... Wanted what I put down in the words to be more vivid, more tangible...

Anyways. The people who don't want to change most likely won't. It's possible for someone who doesn't care about their writing to start caring, but don't expect it to happen to everyone, okay? I know for one that some people enjoy writing terribly, and others think that writing well isn't worth the effort. That's obviously wrong, because it's absolutely thrilling to see your work be appreciated when you actually put lots of effort into it.

As for your other question, I can see where you're coming from here. But sometimes, it's not worth cushioning the blows. If you try to soften your opinion on someone else's writing, it might lose the meaning you were trying to get across. Though it may seem harsh, it is sometimes necessary to tell the flat out truth as opposed to a sugar-coated lie.

...I smiled at the last sentence. XD

I know, right?

But at the same time, I would hate if someone decided to be passive aggressive to evoke pity and attention whil-

Okay, I'm getting tired of this.

Max.

Stop whining about being out of place and not belonging.

You fit in when you're not saying that stuff. Because you know what? Everyone has a place here even when they are being amazingly thick or being frustrating or occasionally rude or snarky or so nice you wonder how they're able to pull it off. There is more than enough room for dissenting opinion on how the PPC works fundamentally on a mental and emotional level.

The only times you don't fit in are when you go 'oh woe is me, I do not fit in, alas, alas, oh poor me, I should leave forever more' is because you are making yourself feel that way by mentally stressing your differences from the community as a whole to yourself. Exrpessing your worries about this occasionally is one thing. Expressing it every single time you post is, for most forum communities, not kosher. Because it makes others feel like they're at fault. Even when it just might have to do with the philosophy of the group as a whole and not people deciding "We shall shun Max today because he is not One Of Us. SHUUUUUUUUUUN SHUUUUUUUUUUN."

You're a decent kid. Usually. Sometimes you make me want to grab you and shake you upside down to see if any rocks come out of your ears.

Additionally I'm sure you've noticed that I banned you from the chat. Further.

This is because ban evasion is not good and is generally not a good idea and an even worse habit to get into.

If you want permission to come into the chat again? Ask to be unbanned, on here, to a PG. Don't sneak in.

PPCing has made me very much aware of all the things to look out for to write goodfic. I haven't written much other than missions for a few years now, but that's because my main failing is a good plot. I never have enough ideas to get me past the first chapter.

Anyway, that's me. I've receive comments from people that my missions encourage them to go back to their own stories and fix that problem I had just made them aware of. The people that make these comments, I think, are already pretty aware of what makes goodfic. I take it as a compliment that they also learn from me.

I've heard from a few people whose fic I "targeted" that, in retrospect, they appreciate the comments I made.

I recently had a discussion with someone that does not think PPCing is the right way to get people to write beter stories. She suggested rather than publicly point out all the bad in a story, I should write in essay an PM the Suethor. I doubt that is going to make the Suethor any more likely to use my advice. Plus, it's less fun for me to write.

I don't think there is a way to maximize the chance that people will learn something from my writing. Or rather, I don't know if it is possible to improve that chance from what it is now.

This is a point by-point-reply, albiet looking something like an MST! There is a difference!

Take, for instance, the missions themselves. Every single day, perhaps less,

EBW: I thought HQ was timeless….

agents are forced to commit horrible acts, mercilessly killing just to stay alive.

EBW: I thought we were doing it because the ‘Sue’s are warping the canon, not because they’re trying to kill us…

The exorcists fare better on the morality scale due to not killing nearly as much,

EBW: And the crossover people. And the agents in whatever department the UC runs. And just about everyone who isn’t DMS or Floaters…

but there's still the fact that both are only treating the symptoms and not the problem itself (I'll let you interpret that line yourselves).

EBW: Please don’t. It’s actually needlessly vague. And if the ‘Sue’s are a disease in this analogy, why is it morally wrong to go in and slice them to bits?

And that's not even getting on an individual level. Think, just for a moment, how utterly terrifying it would be to actually be an agent.

EBW: Alright, you’ve got a point here…

First of all, you yourself would probably have little combat experience, be not exactly the most fit physically, and would rather be off doing something else.

EBW: The first one isn’t always true, but you’ve got a point here too...

Training is basically being handed a weapon, and being told to try not to die.
EBW: It seems to be working, though.

Your partner or partners, if they aren't as scared as you are, will probably be highly erratic, completely incapable of cheering you up due to lack of sympathy,

EBW: Where has that been in any way part of policy?

and insane to boot.

EBW: Alright, I’ll give you that one…

So, let's say you get that far without breaking down into a gibbering wreck of what was once a perfectly normal person, and you're about to go on your first mission with (Insert partner's name here).

EBW: Not an MST, not an MST, don’t comment on the grammar, don’t comment on the grammar…

If you're potentially lucky enough to get someone who has former experience in the work, you'll probably get instructed on how to use the technology, but if not, too bad for you, it'll be a goddarned miracle for you to even get halfway through the mission, yet alone complete it.

EBW: Don’t forget that we (the authors) are probably going to throw them a curveball just to give the mission dynamic.

Don't even think about free time afterwords, either, because the Ironic Over-Power is sure to smite you!

EBW: SMITÈD! Oh, and you misspelled ‘afterwards’.

Now. Let's say you've completed several missions, have got the hang of it and made friends with your partner. If you've made it this far, congratulations! You're now completely out of your mind, if not dead already!

EBW: We actually don’t die as much as you’d think.

If you somehow manage to reach retirement,

EBW: Since when has that been an option? Remember, we’re all basically wage slaves here.

nobody's going to accept you back home, or anywhere for that matter, they'll think you're absolutely nuts.

EBW: Provided your home is Earth, you aren’t an ex-Sue, and you haven’t heard of that PPC city thingy in…France, is it?

At this point, you might as well be the PPC's property, a tool for them to use and nothing more. For all they care, you're just going to keep doing your job in the name of a faceless goal that doesn't even seem to go anywhere. For all you know, it's just to amuse the higher-ups in some kind of sadistic show for them.

EBW: I didn’t want to drop this anvil, but…SUES ARE DESTROYING THE MULTIVERSE. WE ARE STOPPING THEM. Unless by ‘higher-ups’ you mean us, the writers and readers, the last point is off completely.

Oh, and before you say that I'm taking things too seriously, I haven't laughed once at anything PPC related.

EBW: Well…did you enjoy it, at least? I mean, was it interesting?

If it's so funny, where's the jokes? where's the hilarity and silliness that is so integral to the PPC's spirit?

EBW: Actually, I prefer MSTs. Missions are fun as hells to write, but if I want a laugh I look for an MST.

Am I blind to it? Do I sympathize with fictional characters far too much to see it?

EBW:...Yes?

Because all I see is this descent into madness and subsequent death/locking up, and there's nothing funny about that... I feel like I'm missing out on something...

EBW: *sigh* Well, maybe you haven’t considered all the bases. You could go into Bad Slash if you think they’re more morally right, or Crossovers. Hells, you could go into FicPsych, or write MST’s. You could become a lurker, or leave entirely, although I don’t suggest either. Or, and here’s an idea I’ve actually been toying with, you could change things up a little. Make missions dramatic, rather than funny. It could be really good to be original. I mean, we pride ourselves on our originality; it would be hypocritical to smother yours. I dunno. Maybe this whole reply was a bad idea. Maybe it all was a bad idea. I just don’t know…

So that's my question: Does the PPC, by critiquing bad fanfic, increase the (admittedly small) percentage of good fanfic?

I'm pretty sure that it improves the quality of the people writing, just through practice. (I've seen it reading the missions of people who've written more than about a half-dozen of them--the writing tends to get better the more recent the mission.) And reading PPC mission reports from bad fanfic teaches you about what not to do in your own fanfiction--I got that effect back when I used to just read them, before I knew you could actually join. It's definitely a more interesting way to learn than reading a book about grammar or writing style.

But are these effects only on people who are going to improve anyway, because they care about the quality of their writing to the point that they'd find a way with or without having example badly-written stories sporked for them? Or do they actually reach people who don't care, and convince them to start caring?

The main point is to have fun, of course. But it'd be nice if there were some effect, at least on the borderline cases where people just hadn't learned enough to write well yet.

Which brings me to a second question, of course: Is there a way to maximize the chance that people will learn from your writing--while minimizing the chance that they will simply be offended and think you're an awfully evil person for writing a bunch of words that fictionally kills off some other person's bunch of words because they're smothering Legolas in mountains of Sue glitter?

First off, as others have said, if it is bothering you that much to write Missions... don't write Missions! It's okay! We will think no less of you if you never produce a single assassination, Max. (At least, I hope not, 'cause if so, I am officially the PPC's Hated Outcast^TM.)

You feel like this, if "this" is pained and worried and really like you're a bad person for hurting written characters as we do, because, as people have said, you're taking it too seriously. But that's not the only reason. When we write characters, we put a bit of ourselves into their creation. I'm sure you've noticed that you've got little ghosts of your characters in your head by now, here and there. We understand them, they become real to us. And we don't want to hurt them, most of the time.

Example! I used to play a Tortall-based roleplay called Steelsings, with a young, amateurish rogue named Lirond, who one day made a terrible mistake and got into trouble with the Rogue, who decided to cast him out and, in the process, slit his tongue down the middle. I was lucky in that it wasn't me writing the damage, 'twas someone else's character. But for all that? It hurt. I nearly cried. Because once they root themselves into your head, they don't want to go away.

But as far back as fiction goes, writers write bad things happening to their characters-- to create a story worth reading, for drama, and for development. I won't go into the philosophical tangent of pain being necessary for development. As mentioned in chat, you should read Brave New World, among others.

Mark Twain said, in his Rules of Writing:

...okay, so the exact quote isn't on there. Something about you have to hurt your characters to make them worth it. To make them grow, to show that they are good, worthwhile, strong characters, you have to put them through a wringer-- and they'll come out the other side looking like good, strong, worthwhile characters.

If you're feeling guilty about hurting other people's characters, well. I honestly don't understand how we can freak out about the moral dissonance of killing 'Sues while at the same time brushing off the idea of hurting Suethors' feelings. Again, if you never write a PPC Mission, that's okay. No one's forcing you to write parody, and if you hate it that much, don't worry about it. But I do highly recommend that you start trying to -read- parody (and others!) as often and as much as you can, and that might help you understand this community, both writing-wise and community-wise. (Again, if you can't find ANY books at your library or school, start looking through Project Gutenberg.)

Good luck, Max.

Because I know that if someone asked a question, however dramatically or angsty, no PPCer would sneer and scoff at their worries about not belonging, and certainly not sarcastically on a public forum!

Because that would just be rude, and not at all in our usual welcoming spirit. Right?

That's why. If the reader doesn't care about any of the characters, either it's bad writing or the reader's currently being forced to do a book report on the work.

So you can't just say "it's all words", even if it's just a parody. You have to make your characters sympathetic. It doesn't take angst; just little things. Maybe one of your agents is allergic to Middle Earth pollen. Maybe the exhaustion of overwork is starting to tell and somebody made a stupid mistake. Maybe the technology is starting to go wonky (okay, that's not a "maybe"; it's just a "when").

RL ethics are different from the ethics of the characters. It wouldn't be wrong if I created a totally sociopathic serial killer who liked to kick puppies and eat babies. It would, however, be totally wrong in-world. So, while I won't feel bad about killing off a sue, my agent might, because to him/her it might be too close to killing off a sentient being. (As we've already discussed, the lack of characterization means a sue actually isn't sentient; she's closer to a chatbot than a human.)

The interesting thing I've noticed with agents is that they take themselves and each other relatively seriously; but the authors don't take them seriously. That makes sense; it's a parody. But it doesn't stop the agents from considering themselves real. If they didn't, we probably wouldn't care what happened to them.

The only difference between agents and "real people" is that the rules of their worlds work differently. In their world, they're real people; but in their world, real people can be created simply by writing about them.

Sorry if it came across that way.

If Max felt like he didn't belong here, he wouldn't constantly question his being here whenever possible or try and make it feel like we were excluding him on purpose whenever he had more questions to bring up while at the same time bringing up how different he felt.

After all, that'd just be silly and attention-seeking, wouldn't it?

Your moral compass isn't broken - far from it. There's nothing wrong with you; you're just in a crowd of people who happen to not be like you. For all we know, we could be the minority. Simply put, Max, if you don't feel comfortable writing PPC parodies, then don't write them. Why torture yourself? There are many, many things you could write other than PPC missions, and life is too short to 'suffer through' anything if you don't have to. Trust me; in the end, your subconscious knows best.

The gift in a form of an idea.

If the mary sue or gary stu visit the beauty salon or a barber shop, it is a perfect opportunity to list the charges and go for the kill. The agent can disguise themselves as hairstylists or barbers.

-For Mary Sues: Give them hair treatments such as rearranging their hair style. If you want, you can do something really bad to the hair such as cutting of their hair while listing the charges for better effect, total humiliation for the sue. If the humiliation is so deep, the sue begs to die so use any method to kill her. The alternative is giving them the shampoo treatment. You can use restraints to prevent the sue from escaping. List the charges. Flood the sink so she can drown or electrocute them to death.
-For Gary Stus: Give them a haircut or something depending on the Stu's request. You can choke them with anything in the shop and list the charges before they die from strangulation. Another is the giving the dude a shave. First use the headlock, next is to list the charges, and finally, slit the throat with the razor.(*Pretty Women song not recommended, Bond One Liner optional.)

heheheh... You know things have went full circle once people start taking obvious parodies seriously with little reason to!

Kind of stupid to even bring the question up. It's all just words, nothing alive about them, no thoughts, no feelings, no life... Just things people made up to seem like they do.

Then why do I feel like this? Why do I feel so darn terrible when I try to write things sometimes? Is my moral compass so broken that I've begun to lose track of what has feelings and what doesn't despite how accurate and life-like they can seem?

I don't know. All that I do know is that this definitely isn't the first time I've felt like this, and it probably won't be the last, either. But I'll just keep going, despite all my mixed thoughts on, well, everything, because if there's one thing that I am sure about, it's that I need to keep trying my hardest. Even if my mind is screaming at me to stop. If I have to suffer in the name of my own art, fine, I'll share the pain that my characters will inevitably experience. Nothing's going to stop me from writing, as I enjoy doing it (most of the time, anyways), even when it just seems wrong for me to continue.

I'd say more right now, but I'm staving off sleep to an unnatural extreme. Better get to bed.

The PPC is a pardoy; it always has been. Parodies never take things this too seriously. We waver a bit here and there, sometimes giving our missions as different tang, but the essence of the morality issue is - as has been said - that the Sues and other such characters (bits, wraiths, et cetera) are not people and never have been. They're characters, and if it were ethically wrong to kill a character, then there would be no such thing as entertainment drama.

As for why we make light of 'dark and sinister' issues in the frist place - it'ss probably the same reason that people make jokes about serial killers and dead animals, or why many fanfic writers get a kick out of writing about their favourite characters being tortured - or both. There seems to be some fascination with taking something serious and making light of it; black humour. The story of Sweeney Todd is about an insane serial killer, but you don't see the critics condemning it as morally correupt, do you?

There's also the point that the PPC was born of frustration with badly written stories we can do nothing about. How often, in daily life, do you head people say "Oh, I'm going to kill you", or "This is killing me"? They don't mean it literally, byt Jay and Acacia connected the notions into a silly idea and ran with it. Then we picked it up and ran with it again, and again. For fun.

Also, from an in-world perspective, the agents aren't exactly real people; they don't react quite the same way as we in the real world do. That's just the nature of the stories, because it wouldn't be a parody if our protagonists took things seriously.

Does that answer your question?

Your Mileage May Vary on this answer, but I feel that while yes, there are some rather dark elements lurking in the shadows, as it were, of the stories, there's also the fact that without those elements there wouldn't be any engaging stories. Take any of Terry Pratchett's works, for example. They are widely known for their humor and satirical natures, but there's also an underlying current of darkness there as well. In Witches Abroad, for example, there're the ever-familiar elements of fairy tales (Cinderella, The Frog Prince, etc) written into the story, but there's also the underlying theme of how ultimate and unlimited power corrupts people, as well as the danger of twisting stories to suit one's needs.

That, as a matter of fact, is ultimately what the PPC is here to prevent: the twisting of beloved stories and/or fictional universes so beyond the norm that they're unrecognizable. Imagine if someone with the power to change everything you hold dear into an unrecognizable and warped reflection of itself came to your world (town, city, whatever), and began changing things. How would you react, especially if you knew you had the power to stop this soulless being from ever doing it again? Yes, you would have to resort to assassination, but if you're doing it for the greater good of your world, wouldn't that be at least some justification for the act itself?

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that while yes, there are some things about the PPC that aren't pretty out in the light of day, it's essentially just a way to enjoy oneself and have fun gently poking fun at the bad stories in this world. I for one get a kick out of it, but I suppose it's because I'm just weird like that.

Oh, and if you want to see an organization like the PPC- they kill Mary Sues and plot bunnies (the evil ones, mind you)- go check out Bitemetechie's Anti-Plot Bunny Association stories. Here's a link to the first in the series; they're funny as hell, though the series is on a bit of a hiatus at the moment.

Enjoy, and I hope that helps some.

Pretzel

Since this a Mario fic, I have a sly idea. Death by Kaizo Trap!

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KaizoTrap

For those who don't know about this hellish game hack:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KaizoMarioWorld

...on what Foxglove's definition of useful is. If she's the sort who would want her new eye to actually be helpful on missions, then maybe some kind of CAD variation that can identify Sues and such (though that might be tricky, seeing as CADs blow up a lot and exploding eyeballs = bad). Or that translates Fangirl into English. Or that can just see a long ways away.

On the other hand, if her idea of useful pretty much equals cool, there's a whole different set of functions available. An eye that can take pictures and play movies and shoot laserbeams and identify whether an outfit is stylish or not may not be much practical use, but could be, ah, entertaining.

And then there's the issue that anything she got would only be limited to one eye.

(I think he really wants to live. If nothing else, Molly and Moses need him. The death thing may just be because nothing else gets the "leave me alone" message across.)