The PPC Posting Board - Latest posts

But, is PETA prominent in Britain? Boot 'em if they are, it's been proven that they stuff poor little recently-dead strays in their meat freezer. And killing animals is not in itself cruel, it's all about the methods. Do it right, and there's less pain involved. Doing it right meaning not stuffing chickens in coops tinier than those extra-small dog carriers and such.

...Now I've utterly derailed a topic. Yay for me!

Ganked this off... someone over on LJ ages ago.



I wonder how all those saying 'homosexuality is evil coz the Bible says so' would manage without all the things listed there.

Okay. Last I heard, 5,000 BC was the earliest found. But yeah, exactly. 50,000 years ago rather than 6,000.

And how did I know you'd say that? :P

Wikipedia's telling me that homo sapiens, based on fossil and DNA evidence, was about in Africa 200,000 years ago. "Language, music and other cultural universals" thought to be in place by 50,000 years ago.

And Star Trek science is not applicable, because it's a myth. :P

Someone on Yahoo Answers asked, someone answered, I read. One passage (I think it was in Leviticus, which Trojie proved to sometimes spout bull out of many orifices) had something about not having them. Back then, though, tattoo artists were apparently nonbelievers who slapped pictures of their idols specifically onto their skins.

As for the other stuff, good point. Logic is good, because it stops people from being idiots effectively. Although, one thing particularly struck me: the issue of morality.

I think it's important, but can take a bit of a backseat to what provides necessary progress and general advancement. Say, if some lucky asshole acts out popular fiction and takes over the world with a money-guzzling corporation, then it wouldn't change the fact that Robin Hooding the guy out of trillions and knifing him would be morally viewed as bad, because stealing and murder obviously doesn't mark you as a pillar of society. However, it would probably be the right thing - if it helps all the others survive, it saves people who are helpful and useful to society when looked at in the bigger picture. It also puts a dent in a megalomaniacal dick's plans. Moral sacrifices can be necessary, but not all the time. Balance is good.

there is that one Ginny/everyone ever even mentioned in the Canon fic. *shudders*

"Mind you, I'm not sure he'd been through puberty at that point."

*chuckles* So if he goes through puberty, he'll think differently?

"And unless it's set quite a way in the future, I can't see Tonks going for someone as young as Harry."

I did once draft a post-OotP Harry/Tonks parody romance oneshot, but that somehow turned into a serious twenty-million chapter fic, which has since remained on hold. But that's commented on in the serious thing that she'd be breaking "at least six laws and get fired twice over."

"Plus he's outside space and time, and thus cannot change."

Q's outside space and time and he changed. (Knows this is full of plotholes but had to say it anyway).

"What do you mean by our "current evolutionary stage"?"

Homo sapiens rather than homo erectus, say.

Any pairing's plausible if done well. You just have to discount an awful lot of canon.

Harry/Fleur not so much - he wasn't very taken with her in GoF, was he? Mind you, I'm not sure he'd been through puberty at that point. And unless it's set quite a way in the future, I can't see Tonks going for someone as young as Harry.

But he can't have a personality transfer. He's ineffable. Plus he's outside space and time, and thus cannot change.

What do you mean by our "current evolutionary stage"?

What do people actually think of the game or was I the only one dumb enough to buy it in the vague hope that it might be good before the reviews came out?

Here's the Wikipedia page on it (smugly rewritten entirely by me, earning me my first barnstar (*squee*)): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TheLordoftheRings:_Conquest

I'll grant you there's no problem in believing per se, so long as you're not buggering anyone else about in the process. But Dawkins's main point revolves around this:

If it leads people to become better because they're making themselves think they have to be to avoid damnation, then good.

This is reminiscent of the notion expressed by many believers that morality comes from their god. Dawkins thinks that we shouldn't be good because, effectively, we're scared of monsters under the bed or retribution from a higher authority. He thinks we have the capacity to be moral without any gods at all.

A parallel, if it helps: say you've hurt me in a major way, and I want to kill you as vengeance. I might not kill you because my god would punish me, or I might not kill you because I know killing's wrong. The effect is the same, and your mileage may vary, but I for one would rather the latter than the former.

And I'm with you on the bias of people, but the bit that irks me is when someone thinks it's divinely inspired, and still disregards it.

Tattoos are wrong? Where's it say that?

But are the pairings themselves plausible, regardless of the reactions of everyone else?

On this subject, what about Harry/Fleur or Harry/Tonks? Seen those lately too.

Quick googling listed that first. Never heard of him until now, but I do have a few comments on his theories. I will read his books sometime though, given the chance.

In my opinion, there isn't too much of a problem in believing that there is a supreme being. I'm personally set to believe the truth if it is proven, no matter what it turns out to be. If there is a God, then disbelievers are wrong. If there is no God, then believers are wrong. And it doesn't pose much of a problem for me, unless either side starts a war.

Having an image of a governing deity or deities is not in itself bad. If people are just deluding themselves, sure. It's fine with me, unless the supposed delusion leads to fanaticism. If it leads people to become better because they're making themselves think they have to be to avoid damnation, then good. The true problem lies in the zealots who twist and manipulate religious teachings to fit their malignant and almost invariably wrong beliefs, then use theism as a shield to justify the atrocities they commit in their god's name.

Religion is not in itself the problem, per se. It's just one piece of a combination that, depending on its other parts, can lead to great good or great evil. And sometimes great genocidal assholes. Some atheists can likewise commit great crimes due to hatred of religion in general. Religion changes causes and possibly targets, but usually not effects in general. The Catholic Church used to have people killed for not converting. Some Muslims have people killed for whatever militantly religious reason they might have. Some atheists might harbor thoughts of killing people just because they're preachers. An Omnicidal Maniac is an Omnicidal Maniac. Religion's main problem is that it can be so easily exploited as justification, and that's most of it as far as I know.

Scientology seems to be another case entirely. Exploiting belief for profit is just being an arse. That's the other main problem about belief. Not much more I can think of there.

And on that line of Leviticus, I facepalm at whoever the hell felt like sticking that into the Bible. The book was written by people, and people are frequently biased, after all. Hence 'left-handed people and tattoos are evil', among other things.

"But then you've got to deal with the notion that the infallible word of an omniscient god can be cancelled out, and that's problematic in the extreme."

I think he had some sort of personality transfer.

"A philosophy course will cover it in a lot more detail, and you should look up the wossname, bacterial flagellum or whatever they call it, too, because they tend to bring that one out at the end as though it's inexplicable (thus demonstrating total lack of understanding of the theory)."

Yep, that's the one we learned about in science. I laughed through the whole video.

"Forgetting to garden wouldn't work - fossils have been found from a lot of millions of years ago."

That's what I said. The timeline doesn't work however you look at it. We've been around for longer than six thousand years. I think I heard of something from 5000 BC being from our current evolutionary stage.

I expect Harry, Ron, Bill and Remus would complain. Not to mention Molly - she seems a little old-fashioned, I dread to think what she'd make of her youngest getting about so much.

But then you've got to deal with the notion that the infallible word of an omniscient god can be cancelled out, and that's problematic in the extreme.

If you ever get yourself into an argument with someone who disputes the veracity of evolution, Darwin's very handy. I've never heard an argument from them that he didn't have a very good answer to. A philosophy course will cover it in a lot more detail, and you should look up the wossname, bacterial flagellum or whatever they call it, too, because they tend to bring that one out at the end as though it's inexplicable (thus demonstrating total lack of understanding of the theory).

Forgetting to garden wouldn't work - fossils have been found from a lot of millions of years ago.

Because I wouldn't even know where to begin. Are there any believable pairings in Potter? I've seen Ginny/Hermione, Ginny/Luna, Hermione/Luna, Fleur/Tonks and Ginny/Tonks lately. Any of those okay?

Yeah, well, as I've told you before, my library's not good. Besides, I owe them £30 or so right now and I'm not paying it back for a while.

The bits I've read of the NT are so wildly contradictory to the OT that that essentially cancel it out. Since it's the New Testament, I feel that's a fairly sound POV.

I've got to read Origin of Species one day. That way I can mock intelligent design more effectively. And actually, there's one theory that said God created the world, let it sit around in space for billions of years and then thought "Damn! I forgot to garden the thing!" and then chucked life onto it.

Or occasionally until death by skirts-modified-into-explosive-nail-bomb, inflicted upon those doing the hunting. Good old Agnes Nutter...

Correction: any good library should have a copy, and they can order it in for you if they don't.

The pick and mix aspect of religion is a whole different rant. But by ignoring the Old Testament God and sticking with the New Testament one because you prefer him, you're doing it yourself. The entire thing's meant to be the word of God and so infallible. If it's the word of God, then you have to believe all of it or none of it. If it's not, then the entire argument is a moot point because there's no way to verify the truth of any of it.

Yes, you still get people saying evolution isn't true. I'd direct them to Darwin himself, because, in Origin of Species, he at no point states that evolution and religion are incompatible; simply that animals, once on earth, evolve. There are two problems from the religious point of view: God's creations are meant to be perfect, but evolving to suit their environment suggests imperfection; and God created the world about six thousand years ago, but evolution requires considerably longer time periods (if Trojie will forgive the gross understatement). The problem's not with evolution, it's with trying to reconcile evolution with scripture.

That was rambly too. Basically, there's nothing (that I know of) in the Bible that simply cannot be reconciled with modern understanding of genetics, especially when you remember that (except for the hardcore fundamentalists) Adam, Eve and Noah are taken as myths, not legend.

After all, I never did.

Given that I want to be in the DBS, should I write a bad slash fic first? :P

"Your library should have a copy of The God Delusion; read it."

I find myself doubting that.

"Leviticus 18:22 states "Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind; it is abomination." It's fairly clear (and also leaves room for lesbians - if a lesbian reads it then it pretty nicely affirms that she should stay away from penises. Funny how homophobic Christians tend to miss that one)."

Exactly why no-one should listen to them when they pick and mix parts.

"So far as I understand, the God of the New Testament, and his teachings through Jesus, supposedly supersede the Old Testament, but then you have to wonder why they keep the Old Testament in there."

That's why I ignore the OT. I prefer the NT God.

"And as for the incest bit, you have to remember that when that creation myth was coined, there was no concept of genetics."

So? We have knowledge of genetics now and you still get people saying that evolution is clearly fake.

Except those of us who were badslashthors, of course.

Generalisations, they're such fun. :P

Here, have a phaser. You'll need it.

And don't worry. I'm pretty sure that everyone on this site was once a Suethor. The important thing is that we recognised this fact.