Other places the city should have.

Subject: Other places the city should have.
Author: Neshomeh
Posted on: 2019-07-11 02:25:00 UTC

Just a few things rattling around in my brain:

- Designated market area. A town in a remote place like this needs an open market in a central location where everyone can gather to buy/sell fresh food, trade, gossip, etc. There are probably small grocery stores dotted around, but I don't reckon a giant indoor supermarket of the sort most of us are used to would fit in too well. Also, no, you can't just order whatever you want from Amazon. PPC Postal, maybe, but you know how it is getting parcels through HQ customs, and there's always a chance it will arrive last week, when you were out and didn't expect it because this is exactly why you don't live in Headquarters anymore, dammit. {= P

- A small playhouse and/or movie theater. I'm thinking "and"; two, maybe three fifty-seaters that can convert from stage to screen as needed. It's the PPC, culture and arts and entertainment ~~and forced MSTings~~ are a big deal.

- At least one library. (You know, a normal one.) See above.

- Schools. At least two daycares/nursery schools and at least two elementary schools, one+ of each to each residential district. (hS, I know you just came across the Canon Nursery School story. No one said it's not in New Caledonia... {= D ) At least one high school. Middle school is dumb, roll it into high school; pretty sure this is how it's done in Europe anyway? OTOH, the PPC probably insists on actual grammar school for multiple languages being a thing. Maybe even one college, for those who can't or don't want to attend a regular World One college. OFU study-abroad/spring semesters, anyone? {= D

Anything else that ought to exist but hasn't been written about yet?

~Neshomeh

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PPC City, New Caledonia: gimme all you got! by Neshomeh on 2019-07-06 15:32:00 UTC Reply

For some time now, the "map" we have of the PPC City has been driving me nuts with how incomplete and basically useless it is. I wanna make a better one. An updated one. A useful one. One that might even take the actual terrain of the location into consideration! {= D

This whole idea started with Tawaki's spin-off and a My MiniCities game (that's why it's arranged in a simple grid), so naturally I stared by combing through his stories for data. I also asked Tawaki if he could fill me in further, but he says he didn't come up with a full map in his head. We have all we're going to get from that source.

Therefore, it's up to us to fill in the gaps. {= D I need your stories, I need your headcanons, I need your imaginations.

I want to take it all and try to take the PPC City from a blank grid to a more natural plan that fits the contours of the Massif du Boulinda, where the door is located. Directly south of the door is a pretty steep slope, not really suitable for building, but about a mile west, there's a flatter area that I think would work. Have a look at this view in Google Maps. The location of the door is centered; the area I'm talking about is visible on the left; you can see more of the red soil showing where water or foot trails have run across the ridge more freely. The flatter ridge continues to the south, and to the north there are a couple of mine sites that I think could work for such things as a Hunger Games arena or Multiversal Sportsplex, especially the rounder, more obviously tiered one.

I've got some thoughts about the layout of the roads and such, but first, I want to make sure I've got all available sources to hand. If you've written anything about New Cal, or if you know of something that was written about New Cal, I want it! Please post it here.

Thanks!

~Neshomeh is learning a lot about New Caledonia and the South Pacific lately.

Other places the city should have. by Neshomeh on 2019-07-11 02:25:00 UTC Reply

Just a few things rattling around in my brain:

- Designated market area. A town in a remote place like this needs an open market in a central location where everyone can gather to buy/sell fresh food, trade, gossip, etc. There are probably small grocery stores dotted around, but I don't reckon a giant indoor supermarket of the sort most of us are used to would fit in too well. Also, no, you can't just order whatever you want from Amazon. PPC Postal, maybe, but you know how it is getting parcels through HQ customs, and there's always a chance it will arrive last week, when you were out and didn't expect it because this is exactly why you don't live in Headquarters anymore, dammit. {= P

- A small playhouse and/or movie theater. I'm thinking "and"; two, maybe three fifty-seaters that can convert from stage to screen as needed. It's the PPC, culture and arts and entertainment ~~and forced MSTings~~ are a big deal.

- At least one library. (You know, a normal one.) See above.

- Schools. At least two daycares/nursery schools and at least two elementary schools, one+ of each to each residential district. (hS, I know you just came across the Canon Nursery School story. No one said it's not in New Caledonia... {= D ) At least one high school. Middle school is dumb, roll it into high school; pretty sure this is how it's done in Europe anyway? OTOH, the PPC probably insists on actual grammar school for multiple languages being a thing. Maybe even one college, for those who can't or don't want to attend a regular World One college. OFU study-abroad/spring semesters, anyone? {= D

Anything else that ought to exist but hasn't been written about yet?

~Neshomeh

On libraries by Cicada on 2019-07-12 06:46:00 UTC Reply

There are so many fun things that could happen with a library.
Several Rival libraries. They each stand for a specific genre, or period of time, and have (mostly) light-hearted competition over which Works are the best. Within each genre, librarians might compete in factions over specific works.
Gaming library! Being able to borrow games publicly, to enrich the culture and the canon. A couple of big Tournament Rooms, a few smaller consoles/computers for those who don't have any at home, and lots and lots of games. (Might be a bit too Nerd Paradise-y).

Heh, I like that. by Neshomeh on 2019-07-13 04:36:00 UTC Reply

And the PPC sort of is a nerd paradise except for the terrible hours and risk of total mental breakdown, so why not? {= D

Can I grant conditional Permission for you and Grundleplith and anyone else who's interested to write good ideas like this into existence? Is that a power I have? (Would you guys do it if I did?)

~Neshomeh

Whoops, just dug this up now XD (nm) by Grundleplith on 2019-07-23 20:25:00 UTC Reply

I still want... by Neshomeh on 2019-07-23 22:13:00 UTC Reply

... a story about your characters at a petting zoo. Throw in Agent Thoth for extra lulz, too. The idea of huge men awkwardly playing with adorable fluffy animals amuses me. *g*

Actually, I'm pretty sure there's a BuzzFeed video or two like this, which I would go find, but I'm sneaking a post at work. >.>

~Neshomeh

I shall do this thing! (nm) by Grundleplith on 2019-07-24 02:14:00 UTC Reply

Re: Heh, I like that. by Cicada on 2019-07-13 17:44:00 UTC Reply

I don't know exactly how I'd go about writing these into existence if I had that power- I'd be happy to just supply bits for other people to use. I could add it to the wiki page as not-quite-canon if people are cool with it.

Hummmm well . . . by doctorlit on 2019-07-11 14:29:00 UTC Reply

I uh . . . I had kind of had the idea rattling around in the back of my mind that the DMFF ran a multiversal zoo in New Cal?

>.>

<.>
Yeeeeaaaah, I realize that's kind of self-inserty, considering it's coming from me. But since it looks like space is at more of a premium than I ever realized, and that we're trying to keep it more World One-friendly for disguising purposes, that idea's definitely out.

As for the map, well, I don't really have a head for geographical stuff, but I am impressed with all the work you've put into that map document, Nesh! It looks really cool, and it's going to be majorly useful as a reference going forward!

—doctorlit, going to fill HQ with wild animals now, probably maybe

Petting zoo though? by Huinesoron on 2019-07-11 14:50:00 UTC Reply

I'm sure she could work in a pocket-sized zoo full of small not-that-dangerous critters. ^_^

hS

Niffler. Petting. Zoo. by Grundleplith on 2019-07-11 20:50:00 UTC Reply

Make it happen, people!
Also horses! by Neshomeh on 2019-07-11 15:01:00 UTC Reply

Because I'm semi-planning (if it fits) to write in a place that keeps them for the purpose of allowing trail-riding, inspired by a place I once visited in the bluffs above La Crosse, Wisconsin. Not a BUNCH of them, because they take a lot of resources to keep (and the ones that live in the Courtyard probably appreciate an excuse to get out sometimes, too), but just a few small and hardy types for the adventurous folk who might want to go sight-seeing farther from home.

So yeah, I reckon the two ideas could be one. {= )

~Neshomeh

La CalÃ©donie: A Speculative History by Huinesoron on 2019-07-11 09:44:00 UTC Reply

We don't actually know when the city was first founded, do we? Tawaki first mentions it in 2008, but by that time it's already a bustling city. So why was it founded? Here's my theory:

-In 1999, the PPC lost a lot of its sources of supplies due to the Reorganisation. This included not only money, but also food. In an attempt to deal with the deficit, the Board started farming areas outside several Doors to HQ. Although several of these wound up invaded by Orcs, investigated by detectives, or (in one case) blown up with Alderaan, the one in New Caledonia became a staple source of food for HQ. (Probably a combination of taro-root and exotic fruits, such as plantains.)

-In 2001, The Fellowship of the Ring came out. This was the start of a population explosion in HQ: one account (not yet published) suggests the number of agents expanded from ~1000 to ~10,000 in three years. Recruitment from missions begins in earnest, as does the publication of PPC mission logs on secret corners of the World One internet, with teenagers recruited from there. Also also, the OFUs start up, and a fair number of OFU graduates wind up in the PPC. This isn't to say that there was a lack of space in HQ - of course not, it's ridiculously large - but there were certainly more people around.

-At around the same time, the first generation of HQ kids were reaching adolesence (having been born ca. 1990, a little before the Lofty Skies insanity), and being joined by a significant increase in children rescued from badfics. The existing facilities in what was still called the Nursery became severely overstretched. The teachers were also concerned about the lack of outdoors areas for the kids: the Courtyard was (at the time) small and tricky to find, and that first generation had grown up kind of weird from being stuck inside the whole time.

-So the Nursery staff appealed to the Wisteria, the Wisteria went to the Board of Flowers, and around 2003-04, a school was founded on the ridge south of the New Caledonia farms.

-Before too long, houses began to spring up around it, mostly inhabited by agents with families. A lot of these were in the styles of their occupants' homes, which usually means American; this would come to change.

-In 2006, HQ was invaded, and had nowhere to evacuate to. In the aftermath, the Board rushed through a plan to expand the New Cal settlement, creating a 'town centre' area in the sinkhole south of the residential zone. A lot of the early buildings are a bit sci-fi, since they were built with the quickest technology available. The intent was to provide a refuge, archive, and operations centre for the PPC in the event that HQ was attacked again.

-By 2008, the city had taken on a life of its own, acting as an entertainment hub for the PPC. That's probably how it would have remained - were it not for the Macrovirus Epidemic. The epidemic provided the first test of New Cal as a refuge, and introduces a whole load of agents to the joys of outdoor living.

-Over the next couple of years, a new, larger residential area was founded south of the centre. This was built in local styles, since it lay closest to the Muggle regions of New Caledonia, and might be accidentally discovered. Of course they don't want civilians to see it's there - but better they find a French Colonial town than a Star Wars skyscraper, right?

-By ca. 2010, the city had assumed what's currently its final state. No doubt there will be more changes in the future...

(Ironically, this doesn't use the Canon Nursery School - that story takes place sometime in the early '90s, since Ekwy was 15 in 2002. Given the presence of juvenile Suvians in the school, possibly it was an experiment by the Mysterious Somebody at the start of his reign, the first step in what would become the Mary Sue Factories.)

~

Regarding schools: Europe tends towards the '(nursery)-primary-secondary-university' model, yes, and for the sake of not splashing schools all over the city it's probably worth following. The PPC being the PPC, I'd guess that the secondary/high school is halfway Agent Training anyway (Hogwarts has shown that actual education isn't necessary if you live in an isolated society ^_~).

Would there be a uni? By 18, most residents are expected to be working as agents, and not have time to get a degree. The OFUs will serve for that (goes the thought), or they can - ugh - move away.

I think it'll probably show up in the future, but we know the first HQ generation were dumped directly into agenthood, and the '(adopted) baby boom' that started in '02-'04 is a little too recent for the canon kids to be heading to uni. In a couple of years, someone will point out that a juvenile Triceratops can't actually go off to Oxford/Harvard, even if she does want to become an accountant, and the Board will no doubt recognise the need for higher training in some areas.

(But then again, it's probably easier to find a recruit with accounting skills than to teach one yourselves...)

hS

Schooling: All liberal arts, all the time. by Neshomeh on 2019-07-11 23:00:00 UTC Reply

The thing is, being a good agent—by which I mean one that carefully observes and considers a fic as opposed to one that takes it for granted that Intel's given them a Sue, kills, and scrams—requires a fair bit of knowledge across a range of fields. Being an active reader/viewer/game-player with a grasp of logic and the craft of writing is the minimum. It also helps if you have a good grip of math, biology, physics, psychology and sociology, history and social studies of the culture(s) producing most of the big canons and most of the fanfic, and so forth. At least a high school level, which I suppose is also the minimum we expect the average fic writer to understand, too.

If you want to tackle the really tricky fics, though (the ones where the mechanics are passable but the rest is dubious), you gotta go further. Serious literary criticism, world history, philosophy and religion, the history of your preferred genre, feminist and queer theory very useful, not to mention advanced anatomy especially if you're in Bad Slash, and so on, and so forth.

Jay and Acacia were in college when they started, I think. Architeuthis and Lambda, too, I believe. Possibly Nenya and Rosie? That's just to name a few off the top of my head.

So, while you certainly CAN go straight from secondary education to being an agent full time, but that doesn't mean you should. Not if you want to be famous. {= P

Possibly the—Collège de Nouvelle-Calédonie? (ColCal?) Université de Nouvelle-Calédonie? (Nu U?) Something else with a better nickname?—offers more online/correspondence courses than classroom-based ones, more on an ad hoc continuing education basis than a two-to-four-year one...

The OFUs might cover some of the same things, though. I mean, I can see HFA going for something like Remedial Maths: Just Because It's Not Taught At Hogwarts Doesn't Mean YOU Don't Need To Know It; or OFUM, Special Seminar: Fortnights and Furlongs: If You Don't Add Them Correctly, There Will Be Dungeons and Dragons In Your Near Future.

~Neshomeh, musing.

And, for fun, a story excerpt on this topic! by Neshomeh on 2019-07-12 23:40:00 UTC Reply

You may have seen this before; I posted the first few pages of this a couple years ago, or something like that. I hope to share the finished story soon, but for now:

----

The [replicated] meal shimmered into being, much to Henry’s delight. He jumped up for a better view.

“Cooool! How’s it do that? Is it magic?”

“No, it’s technology. You wouldn’t understand unless you know what molecules are.”

“Oh, I know that!” And to Nume’s surprise, the boy burst into song. “Molecules are made of atoms. / Each one has a special shape. / Molecules are small particles / of all things; they are great! / Fish and rocks and trees / The mountains and the seas / Tables, cars, and cheese / All have mol-u-cleese!”

Nume stared, momentarily at a loss for words. He hadn’t known about atoms and molecules at six. “Did your mother teach you that?”

Henry shook his head. “I learned it in school. We sing lots of songs in school. And Mom sings with me, too,” he added, perhaps wishing not to be seen as disloyal.

“Huh,” said Nume. “The education system sure ain’t what it used to be.”

“We don’t say ain’t; that’s bad grammar,” the child scolded.

“Oh, hush. Sit down and have your dinner before it gets cold.”

[And, a bit later]

“What’s impeccable?”

“Flawless. Perfect. Beyond reproach in every detail.” [Nume] brushed an imaginary wrinkle out of his pale peach shirt. Nobody ironed anymore, but as for him, the soft hiss and smell of steam was one of the rare things that brought him peace. Not that a six-year-old could be expected to understand.

“Nobody’s actually perfect,” Henry said. “Everyone has flaws, and flaws are beautiful,” he recited. “Unless you’re a meanie.”

Nume was silent for a moment. “I honestly never thought about how screwy a PPC education must be. I mean, it can’t be worse than a Catholic education, but—”

“What’s Catholic?”

“See, that’s exactly what I’m talking about. How the h—hezmana can you be expected to understand half the continua we protect without a foundation in World One’s dominant cultures and their history?”

Henry gave him a withering look. “I’m six years old. That’s super boring.”

Nume shook his head. He was an idiot. “Sorry, after all that atoms and molecules stuff, I thought I was talking to some big-shot academic. Tell you what, let’s just get back to Star Trek, okay?”

----

See, this is important! {= )

~Neshomeh

I would absolutely read more of this. by Iximaz on 2019-07-14 15:41:00 UTC Reply

Just a little miniseries of Nume being a grumpy babysitter to Henry. :D

++yes. (nm) by Huinesoron on 2019-07-14 19:36:00 UTC Reply

Tripling the yes factor! (nm) by S.M.F. on 2019-07-17 22:41:00 UTC Reply

Good news: it's in beta! by Neshomeh on 2019-07-17 23:44:00 UTC Reply

Less-good news: my beta is very busy.

But the story's done, anyway, so it will definitely be out sometime this year! {= P

~Neshomeh

Almost forgot to mention... by Neshomeh on 2019-07-11 23:20:00 UTC Reply

I think there should at least be an Honorary Digory Kirke Lecture Hall of Teaching Logic At These Schools. {= D

~Neshomeh

Seems to fit! by Neshomeh on 2019-07-11 18:08:00 UTC Reply

I wonder if the mountains are actually much good for farming, considering nobody really lives up there; almost all the real cities are along the coast with just a couple in the interior. Still, there's clearly plenty of vegetation up there, and no shortage of moisture on the west side in the hot/wet season, so maybe it just takes a little tweaking to get the soil to support food crops. Disclaimer: I have no idea what I'm talking about, just guessing.

North residential area = American Quarter, south residential area = French Quarter?

Re. sci-fi skyscrapers: I really really don't like the idea anything taller than four storeys in this place. ^_^; However—what if they built down, not up? There's plenty of room under the mountain, it's less conspicuous, and upside-down buildings are cool. Plus, they could use or sell whatever resources they pulled out of the earth in the process of carving the space. (There was a recent thread that discussed a function of the Finance Department being to disguise the PPC's hand in trade deals, IIRC. They DO need accountants with special skills!)

So, you get to keep your Complex, I get to keep my more rustic aesthetic? Notwithstanding a terribly sci-fi clock, an actual fricking spaceship port that looks like a modern-art sculpture garden, and very exotic building/decorative materials here and there throughout, of course!

~Neshomeh

Myriad responses. by Huinesoron on 2019-07-11 20:21:00 UTC Reply

It looks like taro root is one of those crops that grows well in flooded conditions, so our sinkhole is actually perfect. The hillside is probably dedicated to fruit trees, with the sinkhole given over to root crops (and maybe a bit of rice).

I suspect that the mountain areas stay pretty wet even during the dry season, but if not, there's a portal network and a local river to provide for that.

I like the Quarters designation. :)

Yeah, skyscrapers are only in my head because of the MMC map. I may have to insist on one mysteriously floating building, though (not too large); the sort of place that nobody knows what it's for, or even how to get into it, but the lights come on every day...

Underground building... I get the idea, but the people here want to get out of HQ. If they wanted grey tunnels and no windows, they'd just live in an RC.

The Complex is just another (older, discarded) name for the Appetiser [which I really wish I remembered what the joke was in that name, or whether it was just a 'well, they find it funny, so it must be']; it's probably a relatively small building featuring the clock tower and a bunch of blank doors inside, all technically duplicates of 1-Nou-2.

This is fun!

hS

Ahhh, the city. by Huinesoron on 2019-07-08 09:46:00 UTC Reply

One of the few cases where a game produced a part of PPC canon (along with Agent Supernumerary, as I recall). We really did just pick New Cal because there were few other cities there and we might be able to top the scoreboard, didn't we? And then Tawaki turned it into a real location, and I started mapping things...

I should note that the "map" was my attempt to show people exactly where things we'd started naming on the MMC map were. It didn't last, because MMC likes to delete things when it expands, so the purported temple isn't there any more. So I'd love to see a better version! :D

(I should also note that the door link/image were my doing, and based entirely on that 'doorstep'-looking area out front. I'm really glad you've managed to find a way to make it make sense. :))

I've mentioned the city a few times; let's see.

-The Musee's Wiki page lists all its mentions. I should note that it has a plaza in front of it.

-Nita steps out into the City in Fallen Feathers: Nita. That story names the building where the (or a) door to HQ emerges as The Appetiser. Clearly the original door 1-Nou-1, created during the Cascade, has been partially superceded by 1-Nou-2, in the city centre. Assuming you can find it. Which you can't, because it's HQ.

-The same link creates Club Aujourd'hui. Said club is noted in Driftwood: InterMission as being close to the Musee.

-"Always Together" introduces C.A. Milverton's, "For All Your Discreet, Personal NEEDS". That scene follows immediately after this one of Tawaki's, which places the Rue Imbolc Telyan two blocks along from the Rue Jay Thorntree.

I think that... might be it from me?

... you know, I'd swear that at one point we had a map that identified a stadium on the MMC map as a TARDIS dock. Hrm.

Anyway, just for kicks and/or people to look at, I've put together a topographic screenshot of the area you're talking about. It really is a big obvious flat area, isn't it?

hS

Thanks! by Neshomeh on 2019-07-08 20:34:00 UTC Reply

I knew you had some stuff somewhere. I didn't realize how much you were behind this from the start, though. I don't think I paid it any attention back then, figuring it would be one of those things that just went away eventually. Ha!

I'm glad you mention the idea of a Door 1-Nou-2 inside the city, because I don't think anyone had a mile-long hike in mind when writing about visits to New Cal. {= )

[One hour later]

I got distracted from finishing this post because I started doing this instead. Not much there yet, but what do you think?

~Neshomeh

BTW, input on the map is needed and welcome from everyone! by Neshomeh on 2019-07-11 01:51:00 UTC Reply

Here's the link again, just so it's obvious:

PPC City, New Caledonia in My Google Maps form.

~Neshomeh

Playing around with photos. by Huinesoron on 2019-07-11 11:21:00 UTC Reply

An artist's impression of the northern Residential District, as seen from the eastern slopes of the 1-Nou-1 hill. Cemetary Hill is mostly hidden behind the door hill; you can see farms down in the valley, and the original, American-style residences behind. (There's more over the hill, of course.)

I have absolutely no idea what the scale is on these photos, but I took a stab at it.

hS

This photo is hilariously wrong. ^_^ by Huinesoron on 2019-07-11 16:10:00 UTC Reply

Through a bit of wiggling on Google Earth, I've determined that the picture was actually taken from the Door, and doesn't even see as far as Cemetary Hill. So that hill should be covered in farms.

I did also find a higher-res version of the image, so might be able to pull off a decent photomanip someday.

hS

Fixed version. by Huinesoron on 2019-07-11 17:26:00 UTC Reply

(Link)

Just farmlands. Nothing to see here.

hS

Yee! Awesome! {= D by Neshomeh on 2019-07-11 17:49:00 UTC Reply

I like the two scale agents* walking the trail to the right.

* Like scale birds, the ubiquitous genus that always appear in fantasy art to give an idea of how big the thing in the picture is.

~Neshomeh

Some image work for reference. by Huinesoron on 2019-07-12 11:18:00 UTC Reply

Working from this image:

(click through for large version)

I've done my best to plot the town centre locations so far onto the real-world geography:

As seen from the Rue Ella Darcy. Some of the stuff at far left is probably out of place (the photo is a bit fisheyed), but the centre itself is pretty accurate.

For the curious, this is the approximate same view in Google Earth:

I believe GEarth may use 30m topography measurements, so the ridgeline on the right of the photos is just too narrow to be shown, as is the central bulge on which the Appetiser sits.

hS

Oooh. by Neshomeh on 2019-07-13 03:26:00 UTC Reply

I continue to be impressed! I don't have the spatial relations and/or trigonometry skills to figure this stuff out. So, if you see a way the satellite map could be improved to better fit the terrain, please fix it! For instance, if the romantic overlook could be better placed on a point that's actually higher than the city?

Actually, switching to the Terrain view tells me how to fix that one, but in general, though. {= )

~Neshomeh

So I had a bit of free time. by Huinesoron on 2019-07-13 20:06:00 UTC Reply

"I know," thought I, "I'll do some colouring of that digital art I've got going. But first, maybe a little topography work."

An hour or so later... ^_^

The images below are the OpenTopographyMap (like OpenStreetmap, but topo) overlaid onto Google Earth. OpenTopo has 10m contours, so it at least seems more precise than GEarth. Onto that, I've drawn the 800m contour in yellow, then highlighted peaks and ridges in purple, troughs and lowest points in red, and areas with a less than 10% slope in green.

10% is a pretty steep slope. There's a hill leading up to Bath Uni which is 5% for slightly less than a mile, and it is murder to climb. Anything over 10%, you're not going to want to climb for anything other than short distances. (That's not to say you can't build outside the green zones - but you'll want to follow the contour lines pretty closely.)

Starting in the north, we can see the basin immediately below the door is a beautiful spot for farming. Following the Rue Jay along, we find that it prefers to follow the contour than the ridgeline; that's probably fine. That ridge, the one visible in the farm image, is pretty flat; there's going to be some farms up there.

Cemetary Hill has a relatively gentle approach. The Sportsplex is on a steep slope, but you can see from the satellites that it's terraced, so no issues there.

Moving into the American Quarter, and I believe the term is 'zoinks!'. The whole thing is tumbling off the hilltop; down on the slope there, you're looking at a 50% or greater incline! I'm pretty sure that's impossible to walk.

I think the best solution is to cut off everything west of the Rue Jay. Have the American Quarter occupy the ridge running from the north, then run up to the ridge running west-east (that'll give it a beautiful view overlooking the city), and onto the green ridge/peak section to the east. The region north of that peak should be okay (the roads will just follow the contours), but the whole area will be an eastward fan from the Rue Jay.

Coming down into the city centre, a lot of the roads in the northern regions look good, contour-following or obvious hill-climbs between them. It's a bit odd that the Three Peaks are unused - perhaps the American Quarter could extend south along them? The park is on a steep slope, but that can either be terraced or simply heavily built-up.

The centre itself... I feel so bad about this, but how do you feel about moving the whole thing to the east? If the Rue Jay followed the main track (dotted on the OpenTopo map), it could run NE-SW through that green basin. You could have one district stretching down the valley heading NW, and another spanning the SE corner and that minor peak. The central square would be around where the TARDIS docks are now. (You can actually see this on the image from last time - there's a big basin with not much in it.)

(To make myself feel slightly better, I'm reminding myself that the MyMiniCity is isometric, so a NE-SW grid is actually true to the source material...)

That would probably swing the hospital down somewhat lower on the slopes, but keep the pub in the same place, which is a great spot between the two basins.

Ending on a positive note, the French Quarter looks pretty good! I'd probably curl it a little more around Pic Poya, and maybe trim off a bit of the hillside stuff at the north end, but if the roads follow the contours, those areas still work.

hS

Okay, let's do it. by Neshomeh on 2019-07-13 21:11:00 UTC Reply

I think it's safe to assume a bit of terraforming, so if it's not totally 100% true to life, well of course it isn't, they fixed it. {= ) But I'm all for getting it as close as possible to fitting what's already there, and I'm sure the landscapers would agree.

The position of the clock tower on the NE corner of Rue Jay and Rue des Fleurs is one of the few things we've had set down in writing from early on, though, so if we could keep that orientation in place, it would be good. Other than that, though, the only description we have of the city plan that I know of is "so regularly laid-out that getting lost is well nigh impossible" (Tawaki interlude 4), which doesn't have to mean a perfect grid. Whatever we end up with just has to be intuitive and well marked.

Oh, speaking of which! I've been thinking about Tour Prend Pion some more, because while it makes a certain amount of sense for it to be placed up by the earliest residential area, I'm guessing that is not what Tawaki had in mind when writing about it. I've told him about this thread, so I hope he weighs in himself, but in the meantime: to solve the numbering problem, what if the city follows apartment building rules, where instead of each hundred being a floor, each hundred is a block? So, 104 North would be the fourth door on the first block north of center. This may have been how I was looking at it at the beginning, but I honestly don't remember. ^_^'

Anyway: feel free to make those changes if you're so inclined. I'll admit to getting a little tired of that activity. {; ) But, I'll get around to it at some point if you don't want to.

~Neshomeh

Yeah, okay. by Huinesoron on 2019-07-13 22:13:00 UTC Reply

I've gone ahead and realigned the street grid to fit the geography, and shuffled the Cultural and Civic markers to fit. What I haven't done is moved the Food and Shopping districts, because if my suggestions hold, it's impossible to have one north of the centre and one west. I don't know how much of your plotting was based on addresses given, and how much was just 'feels right'.

hS

They were based on your map. {= ) by Neshomeh on 2019-07-14 02:13:00 UTC Reply

I wasn't going to waste effort fixing something that wasn't broken, but since it turns out it was, I'll shift those, no problem. {= )

Thank you!

~Neshomeh

The map goes on. by Huinesoron on 2019-07-16 16:58:00 UTC Reply

I've added a couple of items to the map, because they came up in the sketch; mostly dotted on the outer edges of the city.

hS

Cool. ^. ^ (Also, paging Tawaki?) by Neshomeh on 2019-07-17 03:31:00 UTC Reply

I'm assuming anything that isn't filled in yet is shopfronts and/or flats. And btw, put in the houses you know about!

Would there be guest houses in the city? There might need to be guest houses.

Also, I was hoping Tawaki would tell us more about this, but this story mentions a Parc Aristophane, which contains a cricket oval, and a Parc J.R.R. Tolkien, which has picnic shelters. D'you reckon Aristophane is part of the Multiversal Sportsplex and Tolkien is the one with Monty's Pond? (This gets my vote.) Or, is Aristophane the one with the pond, and Tolkien one of your green spaces? Or, something else?

And either way, how does that portal fit in? Do we read portal as "console-generated tunnel through space-time" like usual, or portal as "synonym for Door"? Personally, I want to interpret that line as "they traveled through a space-time tunnel that opened right beside the Parc."

~Neshomeh

The Parc Tolkien... by Huinesoron on 2019-07-17 07:38:00 UTC Reply

... could be the Market Square. It's central (fitting the prominent name), and does have picnic shelters. It's also right next to the Appetiser. Depending on where the story falls in the timeline, the portal could be the fixed portal that was eventually developed into 1-Nou-2.

I don't think Aristophane can be Monty's park, for the simple reason that said park sits on a steep hill. ::) Though Vertical Cricket does sound pretty PPCvian...

(I am generally filling spaces with undescribed shops - Milverton's is part of a terrace running along the ridge. But other spots are getting more unique buildings.)

hS

I've put in a rough cut... by Huinesoron on 2019-07-13 20:33:00 UTC Reply

... of what I'm suggesting for the town centre. It's at the bottom of the list of layers, and currently turned off.

hS

I've been poking at the geography. by Huinesoron on 2019-07-10 11:35:00 UTC Reply

Your map is looking excellent, by the way, even though I have just cluttered it up with camera icons...

Did you know that there is actually a named peak in the city area? Pic Poya is on the border of the south residential zone, and has an official marker on top of it. Presumably, hikers occasionally come up to look at it, which leads to the PPCers scrambling to cover up their presence. (There are a few other markers in the area; I'm working on them now.)

I've also found two sets of photos of the area. One dates from 1967, and shows the old mines; the Hunger Games Arena is featured a few times. The other set, from about 2011, is from someone named Lillian who walked right through the middle of the city. She's provided several shots of the area itself, which she characterises as a sinkhole. She's also given some some utterly gorgeous views of the surronding area, of which this is by far the best:

Quite how the Flowers managed to hide the entire city from her as she walked through, I have no idea. Possibly they pilfered some tech from Wakanda.

I've also stuck pins in a few of the local mountains. Of note is Mont Boulinda (not the same as the much larger Boulinda to its north), which is 1137 meters tall. I mean... I'm pretty sure some Star Wars agent has added a 1m cairn to that by now.

hS

Grok how absolutely beautiful this island is. by Neshomeh on 2019-07-18 20:52:00 UTC Reply

I stumbled across the panoramic photography of Richard Chesher, who lives in Noumea. Sadly, he doesn't seem to have any photos of our region available, but page through what he does have. I wanna go!

~Neshomeh
Oooo, pretty. by Neshomeh on 2019-07-10 14:56:00 UTC Reply

Adding in some of the geographical features and images is something I wanted to do, so thanks! ... "Relatively flat" isn't saying much, is it? I guess the architects of the PPC city leveled the sinks out a bit. It isn't as though they don't have all the terraforming resources you could ever imagine!

Next thing I might do is try to find some pictures to represent some of the businesses and such that would fit the "old French Colonial meets new South Pacific with a bit of off-world flair" feel I'm imagining.

I made an interesting observation last night. South of the PPC city, there's a very squiggly road that winds up from the Route Territoriale 1. If you zoom in a bit and look around near the end of the road, you can see a grid blocked out, with each square about 200m to a side. Looks like surveying to me—maybe for more mining, maybe for residences? I'm not saying the PPC is responsible, because it's too close to inhabited areas... but on the other hand, you can see a continuation of the grid almost as far as the south residential area. Either the PPC did it or they're going to have neighbors soon.

Oh, not really related, but have a Mapcarta link I came across while getting the feel of the area: https://mapcarta.com/16629128 I'm not sure how accurate it is—IIRC, Nétéa is in the wrong place—but it's got the peaks labeled, at least.

~Neshomeh

I'd love to see... by Huinesoron on 2019-07-10 16:01:00 UTC Reply

... the sort of architecture you're talking about. I don't have a real feel for any of those styles, so a mix of them is beyond me until and unless you can conjure an image up.

That road shows up on the GPS marker paperwork, which explains how to walk to the various points. It's described (in French) as 'From R.T.1, 450m after the road to Népou, take a mining trail to the north that leads to the old Mines St. Louis. Continue by the track North to the foot of Pic Poya...' So it's the main route up from civilian New Cal to the city, insofar as one is ever used.

A delve into Google Earth reveals that the area of the city is mysteriously missing from the 2002 satellites. In 2004 your grid is already visible, and remains so through to 2018. I think it's probably old roads, or perhaps something to do with logging?

I ran into the Mapcarta link myself; it's decent (I used its locations for the mines), but has a tendency to miss out on precise coordinates. You can see the Mont Boulinda marker is tumbling down the slope, for instance. That's what sent me to whatever non-English Wiki I wound up on. :)

hS

Clock tower by Neshomeh on 2019-07-14 03:53:00 UTC Reply

After much browsing through Google and Pinterest, I think I've settled on Trinidad's Plaza Mayor clock tower as the closest to what I think the PPC city's would be like. It might actually be Spanish, not French, but eh, close enough to my eye. Model the dome at the top a little more after the Kanak style of roof, maybe tone down the color just a bit, have a super cool clock face much more in evidence, and have your four-door square base at the bottom, and that would about do it.

The Plaza Mayor is pretty beautiful in general.

The blogger who visited Pondicherry (which is still my favorite; the grass-roofed terraces are exactly the sort of adaptive blending I expect would happen in the City) has also visited Portuguese Goa. Apparently, under Portuguese rule, home-owners used to be fined if they failed to paint their houses. They took appearances seriously!

I'm learning that there are a lot of really colorful places in the world. I think that's pretty great. I also think it's exactly what people would do to make the City as un-Headquarters-like as possible. Bit of a shock at first, but undoubtedly very welcome once you get used to it. The Giver definitely remains required reading in school. ^_^

~Neshomeh

Oh, that's gorgeous! by Huinesoron on 2019-07-14 18:52:00 UTC Reply

On the subject of fitting architecture, I've also found that New Cal has a very fittingly designed hospital; those curved roofs (and particularly that entrance porch thing) really fit with the theme, I think.

And the reason I was looking into that is that I was working on a sketch of the city. It's totally full of holes, but shows most of the key buildings from the town centre, as seen from the Rue Jay on the way down from 1-Nou-1. The Clocktower and the Market Square are in the foreground of the Square.

There's a bit of a blend of styles: a lot of thatched roofs and rooftop seating areas, but also a mock church for Abbot's, and a English/Morporkian pub for Deepdelver's. The ice cream place (front right) forms part of a square around a courtyard, while Chez Thorondil forms part of a terrace with an exterior upper walkway.

I've treated the Clocktower as one part of a larger building here; it extends into the square, but doesn't stand alone. My logic is that if it was entirely free-standing, it would probably be in the middle of the square, a la Machynlleth.

(And yeah, the TARDIS docks use the Kanak cultural centre swooshes. Traffic control is integrated as part of the nearer one, and the whole area comes off as an art installation.)

Thank you for doing so much work on this; it's really made the city feel more real, and it's great to have something to conjure visuals from.

hS

Whooooa. by Iximaz on 2019-07-15 02:30:00 UTC Reply

hS, if and when the thing is finished—I’d love to convert this to digital art and color it in.

Ooh! by Huinesoron on 2019-07-15 13:34:00 UTC Reply

Firstly, ooh! That sounds great, and not just because I was dreading having to work out a decent-looking colour scheme. ^^

Secondly, I didn't know you did digital art! I'm pretty unobservant though, so no surprises there. ^~

Thirdly... now I've got spiralling concerns about the quality of the drawing. I've wound up with five screenshots attempting to figure out the exactly layout, and am seriously considering redrawing the whole thing at double scale...

hS

Well, if it helps... by Iximaz on 2019-07-15 14:22:00 UTC Reply

My general MO is to trace over the original sketch with black lineart, then color after. I've got a nifty little ruler tool that will help me keep the buildings looking straight as well. :)

Here are some of my WoW characters, here is an updated drawing of my favorite D&D character, and here are ones I finished just last night of my and Aegis' new agent duo.

Whatever you end up going with—and for the record, I thought the last one you did was super cute—I'm sure everyone will love it. :)

You... may want to reconsider this plan. by Huinesoron on 2019-07-17 16:54:00 UTC Reply

It's all gotten a bit... well... detailed.

And that's with at least six blocks left to fill. There's going to be a lot of lineart involved.

hS

Looks like fun! by Iximaz on 2019-07-17 18:20:00 UTC Reply

And a good way to pass the time on the flight home. ;) I’ll probably tackle it in chunks and take it a few things at a time, but this is still totally doable.

And we're up! by Huinesoron on 2019-07-18 16:10:00 UTC Reply

Full-sized version available here. As seen on deviantArt.

The reference file includes what I was thinking on a few of the buildings. It also includes the blank road grid, and a rendering of the building plan onto Neshomeh's map, in case the linework is a bit too opaque.

This was really fun! I don't often do detailed stuff like this (most of my detail work goes into shading), so it was really interesting to work on.

Come to think of it, the last time I remember doing fiddly lines-plus-architecture, it was for those 1 Revu notes I made for Barony Iximaz back in 2016... I'm sensing a theme here.

hS

Wait. Araucaria = monkey puzzle tree. {= O by Neshomeh on 2019-07-18 18:50:00 UTC Reply

Mind.

Blown.

They are clearly both from New Caledonia, and we've had their exact species wrong the whole time! Figuring out which ones they actually are will take some work, though.

~Neshomeh
Yee! by Neshomeh on 2019-07-18 18:27:00 UTC Reply

I feel like this thread is turning me into an anime character. Aaaa, sugoi~~~! °^_^°

So, because I'm a flake and forgot to add a thing or two, where would you suggest I drop a local food place (am currently researching Kanak languages to see if I can stick to the scheme of naming restaurants in the language of their cuisine) and an apothecary?

I was thinking about the latter because I followed the link from your description for the River Mueo, and I saw that <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melaleucaquinquenervia">niaouli trees were mentioned. I know of them because we sell niaouli essential oil in my office, but parts of the tree are also used locally for remedies and other things, and that's Relevant To My Interests. {= ) Also, the trees are very pretty.

~Neshomeh

Also, proposing street name changes. by Neshomeh on 2019-07-19 04:28:00 UTC Reply

I've been thinking, the presumably oldest roads should probably not be named after some of the more recently deceased agents. We've got enough agents KIA in 1999 and earlier that we can draw from them, so here's what I propose:

Current "Rue Jay Thorntree 1" --> Rue Anya
Current "Rue Jann Pablum" --> Rue Josephine
Current "Rue Algernon Bogglish" --> Rue Suzay

Current "Cemetery Hill Climb" --> Chemin de Poppy (fitting due to its associations with sleep, death, and remembrance)
Current "Sportsplex Hill Climb" --> Chemin de Wisteria (you know, the one with the tracksuit!)

And, possibly, current "Rue Harlan" and "Rue Entropy" to others earlier than 2008, though I think at least one of those might mess with something hS wanted to keep? I dunno; I'll leave this part to hS.

The current names would be repurposed either for the currently unnamed alleys (e.g. Ruelle Harlan, etc.) or for new east-west roads down in the newer French Quarter. The latter is what I had in mind for the FicPsych guys.

Not that it isn't a bit dubious for major streets in the city to be named after folks who died as recently as 2008, but maybe they were renamed. I mean, Rue Dmitri Petrovich Ivanov (KIA 2002) would've been really annoying to paint on signs, let alone say. Any excuse to change that one would have been good enough. ^~

We might want to find another name for the current "Rue Jay Thorntree 3," too. Another <a href="https://ppc.fandom.com/wiki/Category:RetiredAgents">retiree rather than a deceased agent, perhaps? Rue Verra Rose? Rue Bjam? Most of the others in that category belong to someone either with other characters already used or who might not appreciate it.

~Neshomeh

... you're cruel to me. by Huinesoron on 2019-07-19 09:38:00 UTC Reply

You realise that virtually every one of those is my fault, right? :-/

I like the idea of giving the earliest roads to the earliest agents. If we have Anya, I do think we should have Elisabeth as well, for all that her fate is technically unknown.

If the city was begun after the Reorganisation, then naming the first streets for the Mysterious Somebody's first victims (that's how Anya, Josephine, and Suzay all died) is an excellent touch. Can I propose that the route labelled 'To Rue Jay' was originally something grandiose like the Rue des Protecteurs des Scénarios, but was renamed Rue Elisabeth once she retired/whatevered?

I agree with the Poppy and Wisteria, and have no objection to renaming Harlan and Entropy; I can't even remember who they are. ^^

The one I do have to reject is Rue Bjam, which is why you're cruel; I would love to name a street after her, but Morale Officer bjam isn't retired. She's down there in section 13, causing trouble with the DRD & RDR.

Though to be fair, that opens the road up for your first suggestion; don't think I didn't notice you sneakily naming things after dragons. ^^

hS

Sorry. ^. ^; by Neshomeh on 2019-07-19 17:29:00 UTC Reply

Easy changes made. Then I got distracted by learning that Teena and Artemis had contraband fire-lizards and updating that information.

Bjam's in the Retired Agents category! I was going to update that, too, but see above. >.>

For Harlan and Entropy (who belongs to Elcalion), maybe Echo and Emily Newton? Both murdered for being in the way of someone trying to murder someone else?

~Neshomeh

Someone other than me... by Huinesoron on 2019-07-20 20:02:00 UTC Reply

... needs to kill some people historically. Seriously.

Did we lose anyone in the Assimilation Crisis? Apparently an Agent Andronicus was killed along with the already-used Salok; it might be nice to make use of that.

Other than that... yeah, it's pretty much me, isn't it. LE SIGH.

I think Emily is probably more of a martyr; the circumstances of Echo's death are a bit vague, because the only witness was her killer, who was then killed by someone who promptly went on the run. Emily's murder, on the other hand, was witnessed by Constance Sims, who was not shy about spreading the word.

hS

Oh, there's Anatasia Spade. by Neshomeh on 2019-07-21 00:37:00 UTC Reply

She's in the backstory of April Halloway, Tomato's character, and she was killed in the Reorganisation. So, how about:

Harlan --> Anastasia Spade
Entropy --> Emily Newton
"West N-S alley" --> Ruelle Andronicus

I like the idea of putting the partners next to each other. And, on that note, I think we probably need the Ruelle Constance Sims between Rue Bart and Rue Dafydd. It's such a long space between the main streets there. {= )

~Neshomeh

This is beautiful. by Huinesoron on 2019-07-22 13:51:00 UTC Reply

You've done an amazing job fitting it all together. I love how the French Quarter has come out looking like a river or a tree; very nice.

I confess to giving in to temptation and making one minor change: I've given the south end of the Rue Tawaki to the Rue Dafydd. This was done purely do that there is a location in the city addressed 'at Dafydd and Constance'. ^_~

(There seems to be a missing connection between Rue Anya and Rue Jay; was something else going to go in there?)

hS

Oops! by Neshomeh on 2019-07-22 15:08:00 UTC Reply

I was adjusting Rue Anya/Jay so that Rue Jay starts at now-Rue Anastasia, on the south side of that ridge. I THOUGHT I'd fixed both lines, but I guess not. Done now.

I can't take much credit for the French Quarter, since I was just following the paths that were already there. ^_^;

Change completely approved. *g*

~Neshomeh

Toying with history. by Huinesoron on 2019-07-23 10:15:00 UTC Reply

In working on the Guidebook, I've instructed Agent Huinesoron to write a little about the process of mapping the city.

He's... not best pleased.

When originally constructed, the road that now leads from Door 1-Nou-1 to the city centre was one half of The Loop, an ellipsoid road that encircled the Farmlands. By the magic of multilingual punning, this swiftly became known as The Wolf, but the contingent of French-language recruits tasked with tending the farms defiantly reverted the name to Le Loup. This trend of naming the city's roads in French has proven surprisingly resilient, outlasting almost every other characteristic of the settlement.

With the onset of the fanfic explosion, the concurrent population boom in HQ, and the establishment of the École pour la Formation des Agents (Agent Training School, now New Cal Elementary High), Le Loup was split in two. The western half became the Rue des Agents, while the east (now disused) was named the Rue des Fleurs (a name since reused for an entirely different road).

As settlement continued, the Rue des Agents was extended down the western side of the American Quarter (at the time known only as New Cal). For a time, a student at Elementary High with a basic grasp of French managed to get it known as the Rue des Protecteurs des Scénarios, but the more concise Rue PPC quickly took its place.

In 2006, the Black Cat invasion shook the PPC's self-confidence. For the vast majority of agents, who had joined the Protectors in 2002 or later, the death toll during the attack was like nothing we had ever seen. As the settlement was expanded into a true city, a major push was made to name the roads being planned after the agents who had laid down their lives in service to the PPC - or who had managed to escape in retirement.

For a while, the Rue PPC was immune to this shift, but the installation of street signs brought its doom. The road feeding into the Town Square from the south was named the Rue Jay Thorntree - and due to a strike by the Quartermaster, it received its signage some six months before the Rue PPC. By the time the signs were ready to be installed, the Jay Thorntree name had been adopted for the entire length of the road.

In the aftermath of the Macrovirus Epidemic, the French Quarter was laid out south of the civic centre, with its chief access road being the Rue Verra Rose. An adjustment of the plans for the northern end of the settlement led to the Rue Verra Rose becoming a direct extension of the Rue Jay Thorntree, reopening the question of how many names a single road should have.

By this time, the Musée des Univers Perdus had become prominent in the city, and its chief curator, Doctor Cornelius, joined with other early recruits to the PPC to argue for representation of the very first agents. The American Quarter's original streets, until then known simply as La Tête and Le Pied for their positions on and below the ridge, took the names of Agents Josephine and Suzay, the first known victims of the Mysterious Somebody. And the northern reaches of the Rue Jay Thorntree - previously the Rue PPC, previously the Rue des Protecteurs des Scénarios, previously the Rue des Agents, previously Le Loup, The Wolf, and The Loop - were named in honour of the very first of us: the Rue Anya, and the Rue Elisabeth.

(Excerpt, 'A PPC Agent's Guide to La Calédonie', DoO)

I... kind of expected that to take one paragraph, but it's fun, so it stays.

hS

That is fun. ^. ^ by Neshomeh on 2019-07-24 03:10:00 UTC Reply

Hmm, I was going to suggest naming the schools after Digory "Why Don't They Teach Logic At These Schools" Kirke and Paul "Learned Rapidly Because His First Training Was In How To Learn" Atreides, but it looks like you're way ahead of me with some very functional Headquarters-esque names. {= )

Where d'you reckon we should drop in DoP and DO branch offices? Those should probably exist, yes?

~Neshomeh

Awesooome! by Iximaz on 2019-07-18 17:54:00 UTC Reply

I’ll save a bunch of reference pictures to my tablet before I head back to London so I can color this on the flight.

I’m very excited to see how this will turn out... :)

I should definitely note... by Huinesoron on 2019-07-18 19:27:00 UTC Reply

... because I almost caught myself out with it...

... that that big inviting open sky is the southern sky, in the southern hemisphere, and under no circumstances should the sun appear in it.

XD Yeah, I came *this close*...

hS

Hehe, you got it. by Iximaz on 2019-07-18 20:37:00 UTC Reply

Actually, that’ll help me decide how to do the lighting, so thanks for the info!

Shiny! by Huinesoron on 2019-07-15 14:47:00 UTC Reply

Very nice pictures. :)

I'm very pleased to hear that you have access to the arcane technology known as "rue ler"; it saves me trying to make all my lines straight. ^_^ Free The Pencil!

I did actually go ahead and redo the landscape on a larger sheet; I think I've actually got the slopes and stuff in the right places now. At least one alley has a staircase section, which is a mite inconvenient if you're heading from the TARDIS dock to the ice cream parlour, but you can always take the road on the other side of the docks and get there almost as quick.

hS

Eee! by Neshomeh on 2019-07-15 01:24:00 UTC Reply

I didn't want to presume so much as to ask, but I thought you might get the sketching bug for this. I always like your architectural drawings, and this is so great to see. Forget my work; I've just been clicking around and running my keyboard. THIS is real work, doing the actual conjuring of the visuals. Thank you! {= D

I love the idea of Abbot's as a mini-church. I presume that the "bell tower" is actually the chimney for the ovens. ^^

I also love the "art installation." And the Hospital. And, well, everything. ^^

Guess I might have to stop moving the buildings around on a whim now, eh?

~Neshomeh

Just some quick examples. by Neshomeh on 2019-07-10 17:28:00 UTC Reply

I don't have time to explain very much, but here's a good Google search with lots of images from New Cal. Here's one focusing on traditional Kanak houses, likely seen more out on the farms but also note the modern cultural center inspired by them.

I also came across nice examples from other places, such as the French Quarter in Pondicherry, India and maybe Victoria, Seychelles, which is a bit too urbanized but that mountain backdrop tho.

I started looking for something to stand in for the Appetiser/clock tower, and I don't have anything for the building yet, but check out this really amazing clock face. It has a bit of a dark history, but it's cool, though, and it goes to 24!

In summary: bright pastel colors, pillared porches, nothing much over three stories, traditional houses farther out and other influences within, gorgeous setting, what's not to like?

~Neshomeh

Sundry other links from me. by Huinesoron on 2019-07-09 10:14:00 UTC Reply

(As discovered by searching my GoogleDrive for 'Caledonia')

-Buds & Sprouts establishes that Nyx, Dassie, and their kids have a 'small house' in the city.

-OH! Oh, flip! I knew I'd done this, but I couldn't find it - because I was looking for an image, not a spreadsheet:

My 2014 map of the city

It's a rendering of this image of the MyMiniCity, which on comparing to your current version has changed a bit, but is still basically the same.

The weird silo things are tagged as TARDIS stores, where the many TARDISes procured during the Macrovirus event were mothballed. I've also got the police station pegged as the local DIA branch, and it looks like the factories are entered as DoSAT branches (not that there's any evidence they exist...).

I don't think this map was ever published, so please don't feel bound by it. I would consider it a nice gesture if you kept Club Aujourd'hui at the corner of Fait-de-Choses and Bart Ronson, if they still intersect at all, and it would be nice to see any new street names I created retained (though moving them is fine). But please, please don't walk your work back for this. (For one thing, the hospital is way off where Tawaki put it - because I marked the location of a hospitaesque building in the MMC.)

-And ohhhhhh double-flip. I also wrote a Brief Guide to New Caledonia at the same time, which explains exactly what I was thinking, and introduces a bunch of new places. And it's a Published doc, which means I did put all this on the Board.

Yes, I did: here's the thread, which also includes the claim that the DOOCH have been importing hobbits into the farmlands. Which of course can't be true... right?

So I'll make a deal with you: you refrain from scrapping everything in favour of my half-hearted, haphazard, ramshackle work from five years ago, and I'll rewrite the Brief Guide to reflect your map once it's done. Shake on it? ^^

-<a href="https://docs.google.com/document/u/2/d/1xFF8he9DI24dk5CAYUVGdAWQJFBvIRzMQzJ8aErGek/pub">Help from the Past establishes that the Mini-Balrog Adoption Centre, run by Cass (who may or may not be Agent Cassie Young), is in New Cal.

So, um, as a general note... oops?

hS

Oooooh, yes. by Neshomeh on 2019-07-09 15:05:00 UTC Reply

This is exactly what I wanted! I wish I'd been paying attention five years ago. (Only five since I was still totally uninterested? How times change...)

I like your deal and I'll take it. Some stuff will definitely have to be tweaked if it's going to fit the lay of the land plus written descriptions, but that's the whole point of this project. {= ) Don't worry, it's really not that hard to change things—it's just a matter of drawing more lines and changing the names. Anyway, I was already thinking I'd have to move the city center south to accommodate 104 and my own description of a walk from 1-Nou-1 to the city center, and now I have even more reason to do what I'm inclined to do anyway. It's all good!

A likely side effect may be some newer north-south streets becoming east-west streets instead, since we're dealing with a long, narrow stretch of land. I... okay, I'll probably ignore the TARDIS stores? But I'm sure I can work in the rest!

It's nice seeing the names of my FicPsych ~~cannon fodder~~ heroes honored. ^_^

~Neshomeh

Phew! I was really worried there. by Huinesoron on 2019-07-09 15:11:00 UTC Reply

Since I've not said it yet, I don't mind you moving 1-Nou-1 - I just picked the first doorstep-looking thing I could find. And since the streets on that map were never put on the Wiki, and I've never named them elsewhere, you're safe to move them around at will. (Which isn't to say this won't lead to Nyx commenting on how it feels like everything's shifted recently; meta-PPC and all.)

I think the TARDIS stockpiles have been superceded; Iximaz had Rina find 'hundreds' in an in-HQ stockpile back in "Little Miss Mary", so the idea that they'd need silos out in the city is unnecessary. Perhaps they were temporary structures, more designed for people to land their borrowed TARDISes back in than for permanent use.

hS

^^; Sorry about that. by Iximaz on 2019-07-09 18:18:00 UTC Reply

The TARDISes Rina had found were supposed to be the ones that the PPC had duplicated during the Macrovirus Epidemic. They'd have to go somewhere, and from what it had sounded like, there'd be too many of them to just sit out in World One.

I figured the docks out in New Cal were for the agents who'd moved into the city proper but needed somewhere to keep their TARDISes. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Stocks and docks. by Huinesoron on 2019-07-09 20:25:00 UTC Reply

I think the docks (and drydocks) are a separate place from the stockpile. I put the stockpile(s) in New Cal, because, well, there were these big tanks that I had to explain somehow. You (several years later, when my version had never been seen anywhere except in one thread) put a single stockpile in HQ, and actually made use of it. Much like the rules regarding minis, I'd say the person who uses it gets to make the decision. ^_~

hS

Tour Prend Pion by Huinesoron on 2019-07-08 21:22:00 UTC Reply

I'm assuming 'du Nord' is measured from the baseline, so Rue des Fleurs. At ~50 meters along a block, should something at 104 be only halfway up the very first block? Assuming a 5m front for each address, and addresses in some way occupying both sides of the road (I'd assume alternating), I get 250m north, or around block 5.

I'm guessing you're basing it off Tawaki's first interlude in the city, but there's a definite scene break between Tour Prend Pion and Rue des Fleurs.

... also Tawaki's route in that story makes very little sense. He (presumptively) leaves the pawn shop at FleursxFait, heading for DafyddxImbolc and walking down Fleurs, but somehow reaches FleursxImbolc and heads for FleursxJay by turning left. The only thing this tells us for sure is that Fleurs and Jay didn't, originally, cross.

I suspect what happened is that I took the names he'd mentioned and slapped them willy-nilly on the map, because otherwise the geography makes even less sense than usual. So... sorry?

(But the map is amazing if you ignore me messing up way back. ^_^)

hS

Block size and street names by Neshomeh on 2019-07-08 21:41:00 UTC Reply

I might change the arrangement of the streets a little. A little research led me to the conclusion that 100x100 m would be a reasonable block size, so the major roads (thicker lines) are arranged at about that distance, with alleys/minor roads in between... but I reckon if it has a name it ought to be a major road, right? And I think there's room enough.

... But either way, yeah, I goofed on Tour Prend Pion. And I dunno how big the average building front is. Is 5 m usual?

I just guessed where to put half the streets. It's all subject to change, and I'm happy to fix anything that needs fixing! What if we make Rue Imbolc parallel to Rue Fleurs instead of Rue Jay—the street that's currently a question mark, perhaps?

If we move 1-Nou-1 as indicated while we're at it, I think everything would really fall into place very well, but that's only if you don't mind.

~Neshomeh

Okay, what if... by Neshomeh on 2019-07-08 22:13:00 UTC Reply

Maybe Tawaki goofed and wrote "Rue Jay Thorntree" where he meant "Rue Dafydd Illian"? If the story is to be read as Tawaki starting from Tour Prend Pion, then walking to the hospital whose location he gives as Rue Dafydd x Rue Imbolc, and travels by way of Rue Fait-des-Choses (skipped) -> Rue des Fleurs -> Rue Imbolc, it makes more sense, though it would mean Rue Dafydd is two blocks from Rue des Fleurs, not one.

A later Tawaki story definitely has Rue des Fleurs and Rue Jay intersecting. That's how we know where the clock tower is, and that it seems to count military time.

~Neshomeh

That sounds likely. by Huinesoron on 2019-07-08 22:21:00 UTC Reply

Distressed as Dafydd will be to hear he's been moved out from the centre, being mistaken for Jay will no doubt make up for it. ^_^

I don't think the sketch map I did should hold a significant place in the canon; it's definitely superceded by published fics. It was mainly there to let people find the locations we'd decided were shown on the MMC map.

(The clock tower, by the way, also appeared on MMC. In my head that building is The Appetiser, but I don't believe I ever explicitly claimed so.)

hS

Wait no. by Neshomeh on 2019-07-08 21:44:00 UTC Reply

Ignore that third paragraph, I don't know what I was thinking. More when my brain works again.

~Neshomeh

Oh! Oh, hey, right! by Zingenmir on 2019-07-08 19:51:00 UTC Reply

The TARDIS dock! I forgot both that it existed and that it's in New Cal, but I'm pretty sure that's where "Cale Sèche" takes place (in 2015). I can't remember what details, if any, we put in about it, though, apart from it not being particularly cramped and there being a somewhat clear line of sight from it to whatever path leads people there? Whatever's there will mostly be at the beginning of the interlude, though at some point the Guardsman brings in some sort of cables that might connect to the dock itself...? I'd have to go looking. Maybe tomorrow, if no one gets there first.

~Z

So, what's a TARDIS dock supposed to be like? by Neshomeh on 2019-07-08 22:31:00 UTC Reply

Is this something that's been established in Who canon, or is it just something presumed to exist, or something made up entirely for New Cal?

How big is this one, anyway, considering that a) it saw fairly heavy use in 2008-2009, but b) people seem to have parked wherever it was convenient?

~Neshomeh

I'd been picturing... by Delta Juliette on 2019-07-09 02:28:00 UTC Reply

A field with a few of the classic blue police boxes scattered around, in various attitudes and one in the middle of a postmodern deconstruction. It's an art piece, you know, and an extra TARDIS or three can go easily unnoticed if one drops in.

Well... by Zingenmir on 2019-07-07 13:25:00 UTC Reply

Two things, mainly.

-in a story that I should finish beta mode for, I added a pizza place. I see no reason why there wouldn't be a pizza place, but there wasn't one listed. I have yet to give it a name, but it's...basically, pretty standard. And sells pizza. This is set around 2027, but I would be pretty surprised to find it hadn't been there for decades (or hadn't replaced one or two that had been there before). It's *pizza*.

-I have some La Trattoria headcanons. Namely that they serve good (if slightly more expensive) food (this headcanon may be contradicted by something in a story I've never seen--there wasn't much detail on the wiki and I'd recently been to an Italian place fitting that description as a treat, so that's what I ended up modeling it on in an RP). My other headcanon is that most of the waiters there (as well as a bunch of other shop owners, etc, in New Cal) kind of know about the PPC and have seen some weird things, because even with non-humans disguising themselves things still slip through.

-I can't remember what store she ran, but I had this RP headcanon of Jacques bring friends with an older woman who ran a particular shop. I'll try to hunt that down.

-Since it doesn't seem to be on the wiki page--in an interlude called "Meeting the Exes", set in late September 2015, Iximaz and I wrote in an ice cream place. No clue if it's been mentioned before, but it's definitely brought up in that interlude. It features multiple flavors and is considered good. It's also been there for at least a few years at that point--probably 5-10 at least. Dawn says "[she's] been [at HQ] for nine years--of course [she's] gone."

And I think that's it for now, beyond having a (so far not really seen) character who works at La Trattoria. If I think of something else, I'll let you know.

~Z

Food and drink by Neshomeh on 2019-07-07 20:31:00 UTC Reply

Good to know! Any idea where those locations are, in relation to anything else?

You know what there SHOULD be? A Scottish pub. The island is called after the Roman name for Scotland, after all. I've got a couple characters bumming around in the back of my head that I could see running a pub for kicks, too. One's a Scottish werewolf (no relation to Ix or Sanguine; I guess it's just a thing?), the other's an Irish vampire. Their real job is being part of a supernatural SWAT team, but they could use something else to do while I figure that whole thing out. Plus, they're entertaining; or might be if I'd done anything with them yet.

The whole thing would probably be Joe's (the vamp's) idea. Ban's not pretentious enough. He'll just quietly tend the bar and look the part of the big hairy Scotsman while Joe schmoozes with people and smirks over how terribly clever he thinks the name Fuil Fìor Caledonia is.

~Neshomeh

Locations? Uh. by Zingenmir on 2019-07-07 20:43:00 UTC Reply

Well, the pizza place can't be reached by walking straight from the exit from HQ--there's at least one turn. The ice cream place (actually also mentioned in the pizza interlude)...no clue, but it's a comfortable walk from the pizza place (comfortable enough to make for a tradition of eating pizza and then getting ice cream for dessert). I think once or twice in an RP I've had both pizza place and ice cream shop fairly close to La Trattoria (which has great cheesecake and ravioli, by the way), albeit probably not close enough to be seen from there. Just a street or a block or two away. So if we know where La Trattoria is, they could just be placed in the vicinity? Unless Ix has a vastly different headcanon for where the ice cream shop is?

Hmm, Scottish pub. Yeah, New Cal could probably use a pub! Maybe a sports bar (or regular bar) too? Ooh, and a vegan and/or vegetarian place could be good and make sense. That could be more recent, particularly the vegan one--they've been popping up all over the place lately, but used to be rarer. And there are definitely at least a few agents who'd eat there.

~Z

PS: werewolf!Ix is Irish, by the by. Not sure who Sanguine is, though, besides aptly named?

It's all Gaelic to me. {= P by Neshomeh on 2019-07-07 22:04:00 UTC Reply

Nah, I realized I goofed about Agent Ix right after I hit Post, naturally. Sorry, Ix!

So, part of what I want to do with this discussion is nudge the city more toward something that would fit well in its location, which is in the mountains on a tropical island. I'll believe the PPC city tries to give Nouméa (the capital) a run for its title of "the Paris of the Pacific," but it doesn't have room to spread out as much, either horizontally (because mountains and also it's hot so you don't want too many things packed in too close together) or vertically (because too high a profile would stick out), so we'll have to start being selective at some point.

That said, there could easily be a vegan/vegetarian/pescatarian place or two run by local Kanak people and specializing in local foods. The Pacific Islands are great for that. {= D

~Neshomeh

Well, you're not entirely wrong. :P by Iximaz on 2019-07-08 00:09:00 UTC Reply

Sorry for being mostly silent on the New Cal posts, but Zing and I've basically got the same headcanons and it looks like she's covered the main things we had together.

Agent!Ix is Irish (I mean, Faolan Amaris Saibhir, it doesn't get much more Irish than that. Little Wolf Moon? Pshhh).

But she is also Scottish! Her dad's mum's side of the family can trace their heritage back to Scotland, so you're not totally wrong. She just happens to have grown up in the Republic of Ireland. :P

Getting back to the topic at hand, I do hope you haven't forgotten about the location where Ilraen and Farilan had their first proper date together. I believe it was called Sabor del Mar, which (if I remember right) is a casual Spanish food restaurant.

Ix and Charlotte also had a date in one of their interludes on a hilltop overlooking the PPC New Caledonia city, which was a bit rocky and dotted with hardy trees. Don't know how else to describe it apart from that.

I believe a duck pond has also been mentioned a few times as a frequent spotting site for Agent Monty?

I forget nothing! Except when I do. by Neshomeh on 2019-07-08 04:48:00 UTC Reply

What I mean is, if it's on the wiki page, I know it. If not, not so much. {= )

Plenty of candidates for a romantic overlook up in the mountains. <3

~Neshomeh

...Right, thatÂ’s a thing. IÂ’ll shut up now! XD (nm) by Iximaz on 2019-07-08 15:42:00 UTC Reply

Wait, a city? by Cicada on 2019-07-06 22:09:00 UTC Reply

I've heard a couple of mentions of New Caledonia, but assumed it was a coincidence. Are there any links about the City on the wiki?

Not as such, but... by Neshomeh on 2019-07-07 02:29:00 UTC Reply

Everything* is collected at "New Caledonia," which is usually how "the PPC city in New Caledonia" is referred to for brevity.

"City" might be a generous term, considering the usable area available. On the other hand, who knows what sort of dimension-altering technology and/or magic may have been used in its construction? It's anyone's guess how many people actually live there, too. According to MyMiniCities, it's 1,859 people. I don't consider that the best source, but in this case it may be close enough. {= P

* Except not really; that's part of what I'd like to fix!

~Neshomeh

Ah! In that case, a few ideas. by Cicada on 2019-07-07 02:48:00 UTC Reply

Canon representation:
Since the PPC defends canon, canon should be represented in the city. One possibility for expressing this would be different "quarters" of the city being inhabited by canon ex-residents (retired agents?), having canon-themed restaurants and parks that have plants taken from that canon. Kind of like ethnic neighborhoods in Real Life. So Harry Potter Neighborhood (Rowling Quarter?) would have wizards, wand shops, and restaurants that serve Butterbeer, and parks containing trees alive with Bowtruckles and sometimes visited by centaurs or even unicorns, with Acromantulae lurking if you wander too deep.
I have no idea how much of that is possible since I'm still somewhat new, but it's an idea.
Secretiveness of Headquarters: Depending on how fantastical the city is, it could have misleading woods that always pop the traveler back where they started from- or, the city would simply have to pretend to be normal and bereft of any non World One influences, hiding away wands, stuffing elven ears under enormous hats, and trying to explain to Pokemon partners why they can't go out and say hi. I can imagine the Flowers standing still in a garden, trying not to mind-yell at visitors who comment on their leaves being overly plump or otherwise give away their sentience. If, that is, the Flowers visit New Caledonia. Though I've heard it's a nice place, so why not?
Leakage of unusual canonical elements into the island of New Caledonia could be the reason why New Caledonian crows are unusually intelligent- and they might just be more intelligent than they let on... *dramatic music*

On PPC influence. by Neshomeh on 2019-07-07 05:15:00 UTC Reply

My headcanon as of right now is that non-World One influence is kept to a minimum, but can be seen if you know where to look. That's subject to change depending on what other people have written that I don't know about yet, though.

On the other hand, I think the PPC is almost certainly responsible for the Heart of Voh. I mean, look at it. It's too perfect. Can't be natural. Voh isn't that far from Poya, either. {= D

~~I'm sure there's absolutely no connection to the Face of Boe, that makes no sense, it's just that it scans so well.~~

~Neshomeh

Also on the other hand, by Neshomeh on 2019-07-07 05:23:00 UTC Reply

I forgot to mention Deepdelver's Tavern and Abbot's Bakery, which are Discworld- and Redwall-based establishments, respectively. Not likely too terribly difficult to cover up, though.

If outside tech/magic is allowed in World One, the whole city could be Unplottable, and/or be contained within a Somebody Else's Problem Field, and/or slightly out of phase, and/or anything else you like, too, in which case anything goes. I just think more subtle hiding in plain sight is more interesting.

~Neshomeh
Heart of Voh by Cicada on 2019-07-07 05:20:00 UTC Reply

Entirely possible that some agents did it for a prank, possibly while drunk. Making somewhat wholesome and seemingly natural phenomena is a good prank.
(I haven't actually watched Doctor Who yet- any recommendations for where to start?)