I don't quite get the "If you're not X, don't write X characters" thing.

Subject: I don't quite get the "If you're not X, don't write X characters" thing.
Author: Neshomeh
Posted on: 2020-11-14 23:44:24 UTC

I mean, I understand not wanting to see your identity appropriated and/or misrepresented by people who don't have the familiarity/insight/decency not to present characters of said identity as just another stereotype, especially a bad stereotype. I wouldn't personally feel comfortable attempting to write characters with identities I don't feel I know enough about to do justice.

However, when it comes to characters with identities I AM familiar with, because people I know personally share it, I don't see why I shouldn't be allowed to draw on that experience. The people I know aren't going to be representative of ALL people with X identity, obviously, but that's what happens when you get away from stereotypes and write people as people. Everyone is different, and you can't represent an entire group with one character written by one person, and you can't please everyone, either.

That's not to say we shouldn't make room for the word of people who are X identity writing about characters of X identity, because we absolutely should, deliberately and methodically and vocally; but I reckon it's not really fair to leave all the work of increasing representation to whatever percentage of people happen to be writers within a minority group. Telling everyone (including people of minority identities?) to stay in their lane and never even attempt to understand and empathize with members of a(nother) minority group well enough to write them convincingly seems like the exact opposite of what we want from society.

Also, speaking from personal experience, it can be really nice to see other people making that effort! A show on Netflix I enjoy, Sex Education, had an episode featuring an asexual character in its second season. They only touched on the topic briefly, but what they did say was affirming and positive, and I was surprised at how much it affected me. But, so often sex is presented as something that everyone must want so much they'll go to any lengths to get it, and just like the character in the episode, I absolutely went through a period of thinking there was something wrong or broken about me because I didn't then and have never yet felt that way. Having it a) actually talked about, and b) in a way that normalized it rather than treated it as a disorder? Really nice.

So, for my money, absolutely write people who are different from you, provided you take the time to do your homework, maybe actually talk to some of the people you're writing about, and do it with respect and compassion.

This has been Just My Opinion.

~Neshomeh

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NaNoWriMo thread by Tomash on 2020-11-01 20:33:18 UTC Reply

There's been people in chat mentioning they're doing NaNoWriMo, so I figured there should be a thread about it here too.

I'm not doing said challenge, because for me (barring deep misfortune) I'm in the home stretch of my Master's degree, so I need to focus on that. Turns out, making a half-hour talk and writing about 10 pages is hard when you're trying to distill two years of work.

This is the reason (well, one of many) on why I'm not on Discord by Kittyauthor on 2020-11-08 04:14:18 UTC Reply

I have... 11k words? 11k+? Not for sure lol, but 500-600 of those words are words from research for fanfic. Might throw in a mission or two into the word count... I don't know yet lol.

But I have been busy. School being the major thing on my plate, with science throwing stuff at me nearly every day (which reminds me... I need to check google class.), so that's fun. I promise I'll try and get on. Not tonight, my Discord use tablet is charging, but maybe tomorrow. Let us see how long it takes me to write 1,667 words.

-Kittyauthor, who is tired and tired of science at this moment.

Am done by Kittyauthor on 2020-11-30 19:34:48 UTC Reply

I got a little over 50k now. YAY!

Well done! by Huinesoron on 2020-12-01 08:45:06 UTC Reply

But does it make the blindest bit of sense...?

Ha! Trick question: it's NaNo, of course it dun't. ^_^

hS

I'll give it a try by Ozzielot on 2020-11-03 12:59:47 UTC Reply

I've never done it before, but I want to come out with permission prompt drafts I'm satisfied with and at least a rough story for my crossover fancomic, so I'll give it a go.

I got a question for people with multiple stories by Ozzielot on 2020-11-11 03:56:22 UTC Reply

Do you try writing in them at the same day (for example, writing in a sci-fi story, then writing in a fantasy one) or do you write in one story in one day, then a different one on another day?

I've been doing the latter since I started and I'm worried about ending the day without getting writing done on my other projects.

~Ozzielot

Thank you for the advice by Ozzielot on 2020-11-12 03:08:04 UTC Reply

I tried writing two in one day and felt comfortable with it, so I'll try to make a habit out of it.

~Ozzielot
I did this last time round. by Huinesoron on 2020-11-11 16:04:04 UTC Reply

I definitely bounced between my stories (it was a short story collection), depending on how I was feeling that day. Some days you're in the mood for Greek gods, some days for post-scarcity medical runs.

hS
I dabble in both by Kittyauthor on 2020-11-11 14:05:44 UTC Reply

Well, I have more than two, but I try to dabble in at least two of them. I've been doing a lot of world building but I've also worked on my main story.

It's entirely up to you, though. Whatever you feel comfortable with.

-Kittyauthor, who is working on three things and might add a mission to the list.

Not going to do 50,000 words, but... by Cicada on 2020-11-02 08:08:06 UTC Reply

I figured I'd try to write every day, or close to it, and pick up a horror story that I started ages ago.
No noveling for me, but if I can get something finished this month, I'll be happy. by Neshomeh on 2020-11-02 02:32:55 UTC Reply

Heck, if I can get something finished this year I'll be happy, but it would be nice to have all of December for beta-reading and publication. {= P

I've got a Derik & Gall mission that is this close to being done. It's been this close for months. Possibly even all year. I just have to get through the confrontation scene, which has not come easy for reasons I don't entirely comprehend.

I'd also like to finally get another chapter of Skyrim fic written. I'm just nervous because it'll be the first dragon combat scene, and my common sense suggests that the only way anyone survives it in the game is by virtue of plot armor. ^_^; I think I might change things up by having Farengar go along to the Western Watchtower instead of Irileth; it seems to me that a competent wizard can do more against a dragon than a melee fighter. Plus, Farengar really wants to see a live dragon For Science, and if he's supposed to figure out how to defend a city from one of these things, it would be very useful to see one in action.

Also, the next LWS cowrite chapter, maybe, though I dunno if cowrites can/should be included for this sort of thing.

If I were feeling really ambitious, I might go for a hat trick with all three projects, but... I'm not feeling that ambitious. ^_^; Two, maybe—two of the three might be a realistic stretch goal. {= )

Good writing, everyone!

~Neshomeh
I'm not aiming to win, just to finish. by SunAndMoon on 2020-11-02 01:12:18 UTC Reply

I've never had to write this much all at once and my mental health has not been great lately thanks to everything that's been going on, so even if I only meet half the target word count, I'll take it.
Starting strong, just hoping to keep going. by Novastorme on 2020-11-01 23:52:51 UTC Reply

So I'm doing a different thing of writing 5 stories instead of 1, aiming to average 10,000 words in each of them to make up the 50,000 for NaNoWriMo. I've got 3 fanfics going (1 Star Wars/Star Wars crossover, 1 Dragon Age/Grim Dawn crossover and 1 Skyrim (that uses mods for additional content)), 1 kinda fanfic going (furthering some of the Write-Off stuff that I've done by novelising the adventures of my first D&D character that's not just a recap of sessions but also going into several 'off-screen' moments) and 1 Original 'fic (Sci-Fi/Space Opera about a Merc band hired to help jumpstart a rebellion that is definitely going to be borrowing tech, weapons etc. from the Terrans in Starcraft).

I'm currently sitting pretty at a combined 3,250 words (just about) with (excluding the Skyrim 'fic as I haven't got any words on paper for it yet) between 400 and 1,000 words each. 7

I'm just hoping I can continue this kind of pace (or some kind of pace at least).

Nova
Now Entering Writing Month by Zingenmir on 2020-11-01 22:28:09 UTC Edited Reply

Welp.

:P

More verbosely, I've tentatively decided to try to do about 500 words every day (combination of flash fiction, possibly?? and pre-existing stories). That or a minimum of five minutes' writing; we'll see which one does it, but today, at least, 500 words won out. Hoping to keep it up!

G'luck and much fun to everyone participating!

~Z

PS: Today's writing was on a pre-existing story: the prequel to Blazing Fury, a DC superheroes AU of Doctor Who/Torchwood/Sarah Jane Adventures. It's getting somewhere!
Yesssss. I'm 2599 words in. by Huinesoron on 2020-11-01 22:00:46 UTC Reply

In a fit of insanity, I've wound up writing a serious work of alternate-historical fiction centred on the elder son of Henry VII, Prince Arthur. You can find it (& me) here, so feel free to send a... buddy request, or whatever the latest version of friends is on there.

Thus far, Elizabeth of York is mostly very grumpy about her husband being dead and some clown impersonating her brother. I'll share some quotes when I write anything that seems worth sharing. :D

hS

Just letting you know, I am Rainbowsheepish by Kittyauthor on 2020-11-10 21:55:58 UTC Reply

In case you were wondering "Who is this?" when you accepted the ~~friend~~ buddy request.

Cool; nice to put a name to the... name. ^_^ (nm) by Huinesoron on 2020-11-11 16:05:23 UTC Reply

Or name to a writer of missions. Which, I suppose, is a name to a name. (nm) by Kittyauthor on 2020-11-11 17:16:13 UTC Reply

Crossed 10K words last night! by Huinesoron on 2020-11-06 09:58:41 UTC Reply

Elizabeth of York, widow of the assassinated Henry VII of England, has created a lesbian spy network, and is currently working to prevent the takeover of Europe by Philip the Handsome, Duke of Burgundy. Also, as first person narrator, she flatly refuses to refer to either of the kings of England properly. Edward VI is at least 'Edward', but Richard IV is only ever 'Warbeck'.

Because he's an imposter claiming to be her brother, but still. It's not exactly convenient.

Given my outline, I only have another 6K words before the narration switches to Catherine of Aragon. I need to get through three years and two major rebellions in that time... it'll be fine, it's NaNo. :D

How's everyone else getting along?

hS

Just passed 25,000! by Huinesoron on 2020-11-13 17:01:26 UTC Reply

Armoured in plate and mail, King Richard's ermine robe cast about him like a hunter's trophy, Saint Edward's Crown radiant upon his fair head, Prince Arthur Tudor strode down the aisle of Winchester Cathedral. He marched directly to Bishop Foxe, then with a crash of steel went down on one knee.

"My Lord Bishop," he said, bowing his head, the sacred crown catching the torchlight, "five years past I charged you to guard something for me."

Foxe arose, and in his hand was the Sword of Mercy, that had lain on the cathedral altar all these long years. "As it was given, so I return it," he said, holding the sheathed blade out across his hands. "Out of the stone of Winchester it comes to you, in fulfilment of long-held hope."

Arthur took the sword, and I saw tears glittering in the bishop's eyes even as my own.

"Hail!" said Richard Foxe, his voice cracking as he spoke. "Hail, Arthur Mabdragon, rightful sovereign of all England!"

Arthur nodded regally, then turned and looked me straight in the eye. "Hello, Mother," he said, and a smile lit up his face. "I'm home."

END OF BOOK I

Book I was from the viewpoint of Queen Elizabeth, wife of Henry VII; Book II switches over to Katherine of Aragon, wife of King Arthur Tudor. It's taken a couple of days to get comfortable with her, but I think I've got the hang of it.

NaNo emailed me today about the Week Two Slump, and they're not wrong. I've not passed 2K words/day for the last couple of days; I know that this story is wildly incomplete (the end of Book I completely drops one of the usurper kings of England, and the wife of the other, while Book II seems to have forgotten that coronations are a thing); and more than that, I'm not sure whether it's appropriate for me to write it at all.

My own view is that writing a more inclusive story (eg in this case by making the first-person narrators all women) is always better, but the non-evil parts of the writing world seem to hold that you shouldn't write major diverse characters unless you are one yourself (I've mostly seen this as 'white writers shouldn't write protagonists of colour', but also various other iterations). Which either means I should have written it from Arthur's own perspective (which would be much less interesting), or that I shouldn't be writing it at all. But it's not like someone else was lined up to tell the story and I'm stealing it! I feel like that logical pathway winds up inevitably at 'as a privileged person, I should never create anything', which... well.

So that's where my head's at. Not that it really matters, since this is a fairly rubbish NaNo that will never be published or anything, but I fondly imagine that I might publish something someday.

hS

50K! by Huinesoron on 2020-11-26 21:53:31 UTC Reply

Actually, right now it's 51.951K... I've known since very early on that this was going to be a 60K NaNo, and so far I'm precisely on track. (It's also 60 chapters, which works out very neatly.)

Currently, Prince Henry Tudor (you can't be Henry VIII if your older brother is king instead) has staged a coup in Spain, and ~~his~~ totally Arthur's daughter Mary (you can't be 'Bloody Mary' if you haven't had a chance to get your murder on yet), now Queen of Portugal, is getting more and more angry with her entire family. This isn't going to end well. >:D

How's everyone else doing? Back in't'day, NaNo used to directly compare your word-count graphs with your writing buddies, but - like a whole lot of other basic functionality - they seem to have dumped that now. (Heck, they didn't even ask me to verify my word count with them!)

hS

And complete at 58,580! by Huinesoron on 2020-11-30 16:47:16 UTC Reply

With my highest daily wordcount: a full 2749 today. :) And - as might be expected with Bloody Mary as my final protagonist - things have gotten quite dramatically out of hand.

I started slightly at that. "You hardly need more worlds to conquer, your Majesty. Be content with what God has granted you."

"What you have granted me," Charles said. "It was your hand that slew the usurper of Spain, and your armies that slew Francois." He tapped his sword again, pacing a little on the floor. "She has a daughter, you know - Frances, I mean, the daughter of France's widowed queen, who married the Duke of Savoy. Little Jeanne… she is of an age with my own son, my Philip. If I were to… persuade France to accept the Duke as king, in right of his wife, then in a few short years, Philip could be Emperor of Germany and France… Spain and Portugal… much of Italy… and, of course, England."

I struggled to climb from my bed, but Charles' hand was suddenly on my shoulder, holding me in place. "I rule England," I gasped, trying to squirm out of his grip. "It is presumptuous indeed to assume I will have no heirs."

"Such a pity," the emperor said, seemingly to himself. "We were all so hopeful when we found Queen Mary on the field. Alas, it seems that the physics were correct - there was nothing that could be done to save her."

"Wait." I tossed my head, looking about me for anything I might use to defend myself. "I am the Queen. This is my country. You cannot- your soul would be condemned for such treachery!"

"Ah, my dear," Charles said, drawing a short knife from his belt, "my soul was lost long ago." I cried out - saw Queen Elizabeth cold on her bed, my mother's eyes full of sorrow, my true father gasping as he died, Father lying with my spear through his heart - and then the knife came down.

Welcome to the Holy Roman Empire of the European Nation. ^^ ^^ ^_^ If for some reason I decide to write a sequel, Queen Jeanne of England and France (= Lady Jane Grey, though with different male parents) will be one of the protagonists - and the illegitimate daughter of Henry Tudor and Anne Boelyn, a certain girl named Elizabeth, will be another. Goodness knows about the third; she'll probably wind up becoming Pope at the rate this is going.

NaNo is so weird.

hS

This sounds very cool by Tomash on 2020-11-30 19:13:55 UTC Reply

I'd say I'm looking forward to reading it, but that might take me a while at the rate I actually get around to reading stuff these days...

Not quite there yet. by Novastorme on 2020-11-28 01:57:57 UTC Edited Reply

Unlike some show offs :p

Currently on 46,543 words (according to Google Docs) and on track to hit 50k before the end of the month, given that I'm averaging about 1,900 words a day. I've ended up all but dumping one of my stories and pouring my attention into the other four, but it's all fine (mostly).

Nova

And Done. by Novastorme on 2020-11-30 02:22:47 UTC Reply

Finally. 50,258 words total.

Never actually done this before.

Nova

Congrats! *throws confetti* (nm) by Kittyauthor on 2020-11-30 19:36:08 UTC Reply
Congrats! by Tomash on 2020-11-30 19:12:22 UTC Reply

50k words of writing is pretty impressive stuff!

Thank you! (nm) by Novastorme on 2020-12-01 08:43:31 UTC Reply

Congratulations! by Huinesoron on 2020-11-30 09:46:44 UTC Reply

Fifty thousand words in thirty days. It may be utterly pointless - but by golly, it's an achievement, isn't it?

hS

Thank you! by Novastorme on 2020-12-01 08:43:04 UTC Reply

It is isn't it.

It also actually helps me prove to myself that I can write stuff. So who knows, this might lead to me actually writing a Mission in the future.

Nova

I don't quite get the "If you're not X, don't write X characters" thing. by Neshomeh on 2020-11-14 23:44:24 UTC Reply

I mean, I understand not wanting to see your identity appropriated and/or misrepresented by people who don't have the familiarity/insight/decency not to present characters of said identity as just another stereotype, especially a bad stereotype. I wouldn't personally feel comfortable attempting to write characters with identities I don't feel I know enough about to do justice.

However, when it comes to characters with identities I AM familiar with, because people I know personally share it, I don't see why I shouldn't be allowed to draw on that experience. The people I know aren't going to be representative of ALL people with X identity, obviously, but that's what happens when you get away from stereotypes and write people as people. Everyone is different, and you can't represent an entire group with one character written by one person, and you can't please everyone, either.

That's not to say we shouldn't make room for the word of people who are X identity writing about characters of X identity, because we absolutely should, deliberately and methodically and vocally; but I reckon it's not really fair to leave all the work of increasing representation to whatever percentage of people happen to be writers within a minority group. Telling everyone (including people of minority identities?) to stay in their lane and never even attempt to understand and empathize with members of a(nother) minority group well enough to write them convincingly seems like the exact opposite of what we want from society.

Also, speaking from personal experience, it can be really nice to see other people making that effort! A show on Netflix I enjoy, Sex Education, had an episode featuring an asexual character in its second season. They only touched on the topic briefly, but what they did say was affirming and positive, and I was surprised at how much it affected me. But, so often sex is presented as something that everyone must want so much they'll go to any lengths to get it, and just like the character in the episode, I absolutely went through a period of thinking there was something wrong or broken about me because I didn't then and have never yet felt that way. Having it a) actually talked about, and b) in a way that normalized it rather than treated it as a disorder? Really nice.

So, for my money, absolutely write people who are different from you, provided you take the time to do your homework, maybe actually talk to some of the people you're writing about, and do it with respect and compassion.

This has been Just My Opinion.

~Neshomeh

Gotta love uncooperative POV characters. by Neshomeh on 2020-11-07 20:37:37 UTC Reply

Meanwhile, spoilery events eventuating at the conclusion of my mission are making points known to me that would have been really handy to have pointed out back at the beginning. So, ironic thanks to my brain for that, but unironic thanks to said spoilery events, I suppose.

I also think I have a better grasp on what I have to do in revisions to make the whole thing work smoothly and be fun, so that's good.

Difficulties aside, there's a lot of Derik-Gall banter that I've really enjoyed writing in this one. I hope I get to share it soon.

~Neshomeh
Eight and a half thousand words for me. by Novastorme on 2020-11-06 11:24:09 UTC Reply

In my original 'fic Captain Theo is welcoming the newest member of his mercenary band onto the ship, with help from a healthy dose of exposition and background information.

In my Skyrim 'fic the Necromancer and the Dragonborn have successfully managed to leave Castle Volkihar without being turned into Vampires. Where they go now is still a mystery (well to them, I think I've got it figured out).

In my Dragon Age/Grim Dawn 'fic the Taken (hero of Grim Dawn) is about to realise they're not in Kansas anymore (so to speak). Meanwhile the Inquisitor does the Time Warp.

In my Star Wars/Star Wars 'fic a 'redeemed' Sith and a Jedi have just met Obi Wan and are realising that while Hoth is still as cold and boring as ever the rest of the galaxy might have changed a little bit since they were last out there.

And in my D&D 'fic Skaxire is about to head off on his first proper adventure. And realise that when your traveling companions are two Bugbears, a Goliath, a Yuan-ti and a Dragonborn a Tiefling might be the most approachable of the lot.

Hoping to hit just over 10k by the end of today.

As if Hoth could be boring! by Huinesoron on 2020-11-06 11:59:45 UTC Reply

Why, don't you remember the fantastic Darksaber from the old EU, where we travelled there and visited [checks] Echo Base, and met [checks] wampas [checks] led by the one Luke cut the hand off [checks] and then got stranded in the asteroid belt?

...

Yeah, Hoth is boring as sin.

hS

I just sent you one. by SunAndMoon on 2020-11-02 01:04:58 UTC Reply

It's my real name, but the picture is the same as on Discord.