Subject: I'm in favour of Nick Fury-ing this.
Author:
Posted on: 2022-03-08 13:23:51 UTC
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Tolkien Estate Put Out a Blanket Ban On Fan Stuff by
on 2022-03-07 00:26:20 UTC
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Uh, we talked about this in the Lounge. I honestly don’t know what to say about it personally.
Link to the announcement thing: https://href.li/?https://www.tolkienestate.com/frequently-asked-questions-and-links/?fbclid=IwAR3oyGPRKgf1sE3B9D_3e1WtVJaYV0yZHConYXedDJY79tDy8SKmYetqrY4
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There goes the arc I had planned for Éowine completely. by
on 2022-03-12 17:53:52 UTC
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It had to end on an Arda mission in order to work the way I planned.
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Nah, do it anyway. by
on 2022-03-12 20:56:20 UTC
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As far as I can tell, absolutely no one is taking this seriously, or even talking about it much at all. The "no fanworks" policy may not even be new—it's only getting attention because they recently launched a new website design.
~Neshomeh
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Having a dig around on the Wayback Machine: yeah, this isn't new. by
on 2022-03-13 12:24:14 UTC
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Niven and Pournelle did name a planet "Sauron" in The Mote in God's Eye. by
on 2022-03-17 12:53:33 UTC
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Did they have to pay royalties or not?
I still intend to subject the planet names in a fictional star system whose world names are Pokémon-themed to a few language changes' worth of sound-shifts, regardless.
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*Sputters* They banned Tolkien fanfic? But - but why? (nm) by
on 2022-03-07 20:53:28 UTC
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Capitalism. (nm) by
on 2022-03-08 13:18:40 UTC
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Speaking of fanwork bans coming from legal entities by
on 2022-03-07 11:28:19 UTC
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Cygames, Inc. (in)famously ban sexually explicit fanworks of the game Uma Musume Pretty Derby in order to avoid defaming the real-life owners of the race horses portrayed in the game. What's the comm's opinion on this?
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That it's because of the Yakuza. The Tolkien Estate is not the Yakuza. by
on 2022-03-07 11:32:55 UTC
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...
Hey, hS, got a fic idea for ya.
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That's A Nice Fanfic You Have There. by
on 2022-03-07 12:17:50 UTC
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I... wow. by
on 2022-03-08 05:07:44 UTC
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It's really, really pleasant to see good fic come out of something as nasty as this.
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Nice! by
on 2022-03-07 21:23:59 UTC
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I'm wondering what they would have done to me. I have not only written fanfic, I've written bad Suefic. I haven't written much fanfic compared to you, though. Would they be more harsh for it being bad, or would it be the same because they apparently hate all fanfic?
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Not a lawyer, but I am a regulatory chemist. by
on 2022-03-07 11:03:55 UTC
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Parody, caricature, and pastiche (and quotation). by
on 2022-03-07 11:26:20 UTC
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I suspect the emergence of a new fantasy epic: The Lady of the Earrings by
on 2022-03-07 07:32:42 UTC
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With such brilliant characters as Soddo Laggins and the mysterious philosopher Sandalf.
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I’m a fan of Gundalf myself. by
on 2022-03-07 08:46:16 UTC
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He’s just an old dude in grey with a gun.
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My rebellious view: we ignore it. by
on 2022-03-07 00:48:25 UTC
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doctorlit is correct that intellectual property ought to enter the public domain much much faster by
on 2022-03-09 23:12:47 UTC
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or at all
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I'm in favour of Nick Fury-ing this. by
on 2022-03-08 13:23:51 UTC
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Agreed. by
on 2022-03-07 22:00:57 UTC
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Just in case my strident objections to the Estate's new policy weren't clear enough. {= P
~Neshomeh
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I agree. (nm) by
on 2022-03-07 21:24:57 UTC
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You have my swo-- by
on 2022-03-07 14:22:19 UTC
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ding dong
Oh, hold on...
. . . . Huh, looks like I'm being sued.
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I will be ignoring this. by
on 2022-03-07 08:50:05 UTC
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"Legal"* opinion coming later, but I deny the Estate's moral right to do this. I will keep using my screenname and writing fanfic, whether I have to self-host or sharding samizdat it. Middle-earth is too important to me.
hS
I Am Not A Lawyer, but I *am a regulatory chemist, so I at least move in the same documents as them.
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As in we can make this one an exception? (nm) by
on 2022-03-07 00:50:54 UTC
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If the community overall agrees. (nm) by
on 2022-03-07 02:29:22 UTC
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Since the Discord immediately devolved into legal questions... by
on 2022-03-07 00:46:26 UTC
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Actually, I think I made a mistake. by
on 2022-03-07 02:48:35 UTC
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However, our policy on disallowing missions isn't about copyright, by
on 2022-03-07 02:54:19 UTC
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it's about respecting the feelings of the original creator. Even if it's legal to write twice-removed fics in a quarantined continuum, we still don't allow them for this reason.
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"... and yet leave scope for other minds and hands, wielding paint and music and drama." —Tolkien (nm) by
on 2022-03-07 04:48:33 UTC
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Sure, but again... by
on 2022-03-07 03:18:49 UTC
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In this case, I think it's safe to assume that the people who created the work in question (J.R.R. and Christopher Tolkien) were fine with fan stuff. J.R.R. Tolkien got tons of LotR-inspired gifts from fans and enjoyed them. Christopher Tolkien absolutely knew about fan works and never asked for them to stop.
The only reason for things to change now is because the legal construct that happens to hold the copyright Said So.
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No guarantee on whether that last one won't happen 😔 (nm) by
on 2022-03-07 03:53:13 UTC
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As for my personal thoughts by
on 2022-03-07 01:19:49 UTC
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THIS. by
on 2022-03-07 04:41:59 UTC
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I can grudgingly respect the wishes of an individual, living author who's afraid that freely permitting fanworks could result in them losing the rights to their IP, even if I don't actually agree with them.
NEVER will I EVER support shutting down all fan expression in favor of protecting a corporate entity that's been profiting big-time thanks to the very same fan-love they're trying to quash. My feelings about this are unprintable on a PG-13 forum.
~Neshomeh
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Thank you, GMA (nm) by
on 2022-03-07 00:48:56 UTC
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We can no longer allow Tolkien missions (nm) by
on 2022-03-07 00:36:35 UTC
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Link + Highlighting a section by
on 2022-03-07 00:32:55 UTC
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Serious business
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To me, the “publishing” reads like for-profit publishing? by
on 2022-03-07 01:05:40 UTC
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No, you're fine. /gen by
on 2022-03-07 01:11:17 UTC
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It’s okay! I think we’ll really just have to wait and see. by
on 2022-03-07 01:44:37 UTC
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I would probably reserve judgement about this FAQ until they start sending C&Ds to Stephen Colbert for nerding out on his show, or, again, Gimli/Legolas smut writers on AO3. This is a matter for OTW to handle right now and we’ll see where they get with it.
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This. by
on 2022-03-07 04:29:39 UTC
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You can still watch War of the Rohirrim. by
on 2022-03-07 15:34:13 UTC
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That's solidly under the New Line license, which was sold completely by Txlkxxn. The Estate doesn't make a penny of it.
It is a /weird scenario/ when Peter Jackson's crew are the good guys in a Fandom dispute.
hS
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Then Japanese doujin artists are in for a lot of trouble (nm) by
on 2022-03-07 01:10:23 UTC
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Again, I don’t think this is super enforceable. by
on 2022-03-07 01:41:17 UTC
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Doujinshi are overlooked under Japanese copyright law because they don’t compete in the same market as the original, and they don’t infringe on the profits of the original.
Also, it’s highly unlikely some amateur Japanese fanartist will ping the radar of a big estate in a different country. Not to mention the difficulty the estate will have in proving the artist is copying Tolkien’s images or material especially when most doujins have distinct art styles from the original, and the writing is likely to be in a different language.
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Guys, I have an idea by
on 2022-03-07 01:45:04 UTC
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How about one of us directly email the estate and ask what they mean by "publish"?
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Why don’t we let the OTW handle this? by
on 2022-03-07 01:48:59 UTC
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The OTW keeps lawyers on retainer for this exact reason.