Fair enough!

Subject: Fair enough!
Author: Neshomeh
Posted on: 2024-04-25 18:16:42 UTC

Sorry I misunderstood your feelings on critique. I'd gotten that impression since you said you're just writing to relax and hadn't expected posting on AO3 to garner the attention of critics—which I understood as "people who read critically" rather than "people who are excessively negative," in case we're using different connotations.

To be very clear, it is not our intention to incite anyone to go post hate comments; anyone inclined to do so is not welcome in our community.

I will say, our discussions amongst ourselves will definitely tend to be more strongly worded than anything we'd say to an author's face. They may also lack clarification that our focus is on the writing, not the writer, because that's one of our most important community principles, so it often goes without saying. However, context matters, so construing our intentions toward an author based on how we talk about their work on our own forum is misguided at best. I recommend reading our Constitution and maybe our FAQ: For Other People to get a better idea of what we actually do and don't stand for.

Of course, misunderstandings are always a risk of any communication (including writing), and that goes both ways. Thank you for being brave enough to let us all clear the air!

~Neshomeh

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A fic that trivializes PTSD big time by Finnfinn on 2024-02-01 08:35:22 UTC Badfic report Reply

Already briefly talked about this one on the Discord. Title should say it all. Contnuum is Sword Art Online. Read at your own peril: https://archiveofourown.org/works/53181535

The fic promises to elaborate on the trauma which the protagonist suffered in SAO, a good (though extremely hard to execute) premise. Unfortunately, it goes down the gutter quickly and the fic forgets about its premise within a few paragraphs, feeling the need to focus on some tragic M/M romance.

Example of trivialization.

I won't go further than that. Should give a rough idea of what you're in for if you decide to click that link.

thx for the review~ by puripuri on 2024-04-24 12:34:46 UTC Reply

i know i'm very late lolol, i just saw someone's message abt this post. just wanted to hop in and clarify that the "mani-pedi" line was sarcasm. so basically, he was making FUN of the fact that his therapist suggested self-care as a "cure" to PTSD. sry if that wasn't clear. also the whole fic was meant to be focused on my little made-up ship in the first place but I got a little carried away with writing some sad stuff, so sry again if you wanted an actual exploration of trauma. also wasn't a serious fic either and wasn't rlly meant to "promise" anythinggg (that's why I didn't finish it. i didn't even plan write more than a chapter.)

uhhhh so yeah. very very sorry if it seemed disrespectful, but it rly wasn't my intention to "trivialize" PTSD or anything. just wanted to add a little angst to my shitpost. i have been looking to write an actual fic on how sao would've REALISTICALLY affected kirito after escaping it (I spent a while researching about ptsd and stuff. rly interesting and seems like a fun writing challenge), but this specific fic just wasn't meant to be that. like you said, it focused on "some tragic m/m romance" www

anywaysss, have a great day, and I'm very grateful that you cared enough to read through it. means a lot. (also idk how to use this website so I hope this reply gets to you lol)

-puripuri

Hi there :) by Finnfinn on 2024-04-24 18:24:28 UTC Reply

Warm welcome from me as well. Though Thunder has pretty much hit the nail on the head, I think it's only decent for me to stop by, seeing how I linked your fic here :)

The topic of PTSD due to the events in SAO has been handled by the canon media themselves a bit, but there's definitely room for more there. I don't want to go off-topic here (a few PPCers can confirm I am easily derailed when it comes to SAO), so I'll just say that I encourage you to write that fic if and when you feel like it. Having the passion to research sensitive subject matter is something I find commendable.
*has been summoned by Linstar* by Thunder on 2024-04-24 17:10:10 UTC Reply

I've been summoned from the void that is the wider internet. Hi there, welcome to the PPC community!

I'm really sorry you had to be introduced to the PPC in this manner. Unfortunately there are some individuals who see us as the scum of the earth, but to clarify, we never harass authors or leave personal attacks. We believe that critiquing a work is not the same as insulting said work's author and we never do anything out of malice or spite.

I hope you have a great day! Feel free to hang around ^^

thx for the clarification by puripuri on 2024-04-24 17:38:45 UTC Reply

thx for clarifying!! i'll admit, i was a bit scared when I heard abt some "evil harassers coming to steal my info" lolol.

also, i appreciate that u guys don't support attacking or harassing authors, but like uhhh idk rly know how to say this, but taking a section of my fanfic out of context and saying I was "trivializing ptsd" when imo, I made it pretty clear in the story that it was sarcastic was a little.... yk... yikes (its my first time dealing with a situation like this sry lolol). like, I genuinely thought readers would understand that a comment about a "mani-pedi" fully stopping a pstd attack wasn't serious. I apologize if my writing wasn't clear, but if there is a way to encourage your members to maybe ask (?) the author before assuming smth that serious, consider trying it out.

and uh the addition of "I won't go further than that. Should give a rough idea of what you're in for if you decide to click that link." is also pretty yikes, because not only did they misunderstand my intentions with writing this fanfic, they also incited other readers to go into it with their same misconception and disapproval. I use AO3 as a way to chill and creatively express myself and would appreciate if a community of people weren't sent to my account thinking I didn't care about and trivialized PTSD. I am well aware that it is a serious issue and condition. If they expressed their worries to me in a comment, I would've been glad to clarify.

Also maybe encourage your members to ask before linking someone's work. I wrote this when I was 13 and if I saw this post then, I would've probably deleted my account lol. (bit of an overreaction, but I was rly new to posting my writing online back then)

Now, I don't let such posts get to me negatively (I understand that criticism is very important to grow), but not every ao3 user may want this kind of attention. (It is maybe why you have accrued a sour reputation. From what I see, it's probably a misunderstanding, but I don't doubt people have been hurt by some of your members' posts. Remember, ao3 is a platform that a lot of inexperienced writers, and having someone heavily criticize them without having asked for it can be discouraging. I believe the writing community should be positive and encouraging. Not everyone will be born as Stephen King, some need time to learn without being told their story "went down the gutter quickly".)

Thank you, and have a great day.

(sry I panicked halfway through and wrote this like an email. i mean this all in a friendly and hopefully constructive way :])

Hmm. Well, I don't know if I would entirely agree. by Linstar on 2024-04-24 20:05:56 UTC Edited Reply

Glad we could make it clear that we have absolutely no intent of going after anyone. I can understand that your writing didn't mean to trivialize anything, but it does seem that it unfortunately did. Now, I don't think that there's anything wrong with linking or discussing a publicly available piece of media without first contacting the author about it. Not all authors would be as kind and gracious as you have been, and criticism can sometimes lead to unnecessary drama. That said, I have gone to an author to try to give them constructive criticism before (once), and it thankfully went well. That's why we tend to avoid talking to authors of fics we criticize, we don't need to talk to the author to discuss their work. We don't try to make any judgments about authors based on their work. It is not our goal to inform authors about our opinion on their work, generally, which is why we don't link authors to our reviews or missions. That way, no one's feelings would be hurt by it. This is a pretty obscure online community, and people telling authors about what we may think of their work (like that anonymous person who linked you here) is very much an infrequent occurrence.

Honestly, I'm sure that anything I wrote at 13 would be far, far worse than your fic. Your spelling, punctuation, and grammar are quite good. I hope you can understand our point of view on this, and I thank you for being friendly and constructive. I wish you well in future fic endeavors.

--Ls

i see by puripuri on 2024-04-25 08:10:21 UTC Reply

oh okay, i guess it was just unfortunate that I got linked to this post then :].

(extra remarks. tldr at the end.) although, i understand that you don't see anything technically wrong with linking an author's work without their permission, I would appreciate if your members would refrain from interacting with my stories in this way from now on. i never posted on ao3 with the intent of getting the attention of "critics" or anything of the sort, and writing is very much a way for me to destress.

i truly don't believe that my work trivialized ptsd in any way. every scene where kirito was mentioning "self-care" as away to cope was clearly presented as sarcasm. (though, i also understand that the point of sarcasm is that not everyone will get it. but alsooo i had it read by a few friends and they caught onto it without needing me to explain. so. yeah.) from my own experience and some of my friends', it is common for people going through therapy (especially teens) to sort of internally ridicule their therapist since they don't have a source to direct their anger at. in other words, they are frustrated with the pain of what happened to them, and may subconsciously take out their anger on someone with good intentions. i repeat, i was not "unfortunately trivializing pstd" in any way. any. please don't interact with my work anymore. (i rly don't know how not to sound mean bro I'm strugglinnnn TT-TT)

i myself struggle with pstd a lot due some intense childhood experiences. i didn't mention it in any of my previous messages as to not make my apology seem disingenuous in case this misunderstanding of my intentions truly hurt finnfinn, but it is hurtful as well to be accused of something like this out of the blue. i fully believe you have the right to have any opinion on my works, be it good or bad, but, in all due respect, I really would prefer if my account wasn't attached to a community such as yours. again, with all due respect, i rly can't condone a community that cares so much about what angst kids are writing online for their favorite anime. be it me or anyone else. i do not want to be attached in any way to this stuff.

as I've previously stated, i am fairly new to sharing my work online and was not aware that it was common practice for fellow users to give unsolicited critiques of each other's writing. i understand that you believe this community is "obscure" enough to not reach the authors, but the fact that i was contacted by someone after this post was made is proof that it very much isn't. people see this posts and some of them may have bad intentions after reading them. (or, in the heat of the moment, think they are "correcting someone who trivializes pstd", and write a smth hurtful in their comment section.) it happens, and i just wanna make sure it doesn't happen to me.

i do not believe any of you have bad intentions, but just to avoid my works one day receiving the attention of people i didn't want it to, please don't link my works anymore. i don't mind if people talk about them on discord or other social media, but please don't directly showcase or link my account to it. (especially if it's after accusing me of something heinous, thank youuuuu :])

tldr; pls don't attach my fics to ur works. i don't want attention from this type of community. (tone indicator: I'm not trying to seem mean or anything, but i just rly want to be able to chill while i write without stressing out about who's gonna get my stories shared to them and what context they'll be given. thxxxx.)

Additional two cents. by Neshomeh on 2024-04-25 13:01:43 UTC Reply

Hello! Not meaning to pile on, I've just been following the conversation and felt I had something to add. My words are meant kindly.

First, sorry once again that you were targeted by some rando who wanted to scare you. We're interested only in discussing fanfiction and have zero interest in anyone's personal information. If we found out one of our members was actually harassing anyone, they would be kicked out immediately.

Second, we seem to have a difference in philosophy about what it means to post a story publicly online. I don't know when exactly people started getting the idea that fanfiction should never be critiqued at all, but personally (and I think I speak for many of us here), I have always found critique-free comments unsatisfying. That doesn't mean I love negative feedback, no one does, but I'm not perfect and my writing will never hit anyone exactly the same as anyone else, so if nobody finds anything to say about it other than "great job," I feel like no one was really paying attention. And if I share a piece with the world, you bet I was hoping at least one person would pay attention. {= )

I'm sorry you didn't realize that posting publicly meant anyone could read and comment on your work in any way, but that's the reality. If you truly don't want anyone to critically read or comment about your stories, I suggest sincerely that you find a private writing community that has explicit rules about how readers may interact with works. I'm afraid I don't know any because, well, see above, but I'm sure they exist. That will keep you sheltered from trolls like whoever linked you here, too.

Seconding what the others said, we in fact have a policy against harassing authors (or anyone else), so we're highly unlikely to look at anything of yours again ourselves, but since other people do post with the hope of critical feedback, and interact with other stories the same way, please consider an alternative to a public platform like AO3.

Take care!

~Neshomeh

i understand by puripuri on 2024-04-25 15:45:25 UTC Reply

i myself enjoy getting criticism and always welcome it. in this situation, I simply asked not to be targetted because I'm still not very familiar with PPC and their actual size and don't want to be swarmed by hate comments one day. (might be an irrational fear, but I've seen it happen before)

criticism itself is valid and I love learning from it since I am passionate about write. but in this case, since finnfinn misunderstood my intentions, I was scared that somehow, the rest of PPC would find this post and mislabel me as a writer who enjoys making light of other people's struggles.

nothing more, nothing less.

but I appreciate ur attempt to give advice. it is very important to learn to accept criticism and I hope you keep sharing that idea with people who may need it. :]

Fair enough! by Neshomeh on 2024-04-25 18:16:42 UTC Reply

Sorry I misunderstood your feelings on critique. I'd gotten that impression since you said you're just writing to relax and hadn't expected posting on AO3 to garner the attention of critics—which I understood as "people who read critically" rather than "people who are excessively negative," in case we're using different connotations.

To be very clear, it is not our intention to incite anyone to go post hate comments; anyone inclined to do so is not welcome in our community.

I will say, our discussions amongst ourselves will definitely tend to be more strongly worded than anything we'd say to an author's face. They may also lack clarification that our focus is on the writing, not the writer, because that's one of our most important community principles, so it often goes without saying. However, context matters, so construing our intentions toward an author based on how we talk about their work on our own forum is misguided at best. I recommend reading our Constitution and maybe our FAQ: For Other People to get a better idea of what we actually do and don't stand for.

Of course, misunderstandings are always a risk of any communication (including writing), and that goes both ways. Thank you for being brave enough to let us all clear the air!

~Neshomeh

I get where you're coming from, but... by Finnfinn on 2024-04-25 10:28:57 UTC Reply

... as much as you have the freedom to share fanfiction, others have the freedom to discuss and critique it if they so choose.

I believe you that you meant no ill and I, once again, encourage you to keep writing. It's a fun, creative outlet. However, by posting your work online, you make an implicit statement about it. That statement being that you deem it good enough for others to consume it, be it a story, a picture or something else entirely. Hence, you open that work up for criticism and not all of it will be good. In this case, my impression of the fic - NOT its author - was a bad one, I shared it and I stand by it. This will not change in the future.

Again, you don't have to convince me that you didn't mean any harm. I fully believe you. And I find it admirable that you came here to explain your intentions, even after someone claimed that evil trolls have emerged to claim you.

clarification: i dont mind your review by puripuri on 2024-04-25 15:51:57 UTC Reply

sorry, i didn't mean to make it seem like i didn't think your original review was valid. it perfectly was. you can have any opinion of my works or anyone's for that mater

my request not to be mentioned again was due to the fear that more members would see this post, and I didn't want my account out of the blue. i don't know how big ppc is, and the thought of being targeted by some elusive community scared me, not this review.

still, i don't really understand the idea of critiquing works on a platform like ao3 since writing on the internet is very commonly known to have varying qualities. i believed a lot of us were used to it and even found charm in it (i know i do), and stumbling upon a community like this was quite a shock. (i know ppl leave constructive criticism on ao3 and i welcome it, i just didn't know there was "critiquing" communities)

but that shouldn't stop you from doing what you're passionate about and if you enjoy formulating thoughts about what you read, please keep doing so.
One thing I'd like to add is that trolls contacting the authors of fics is not common. by Linstar on 2024-04-25 11:38:53 UTC Reply

As you can see by checking the comments sections of any fics we've recently looked at. Sorry that it happened to you, but you are indeed an outlier.

I'd also like to reiterate how much I agree with Finnfinn in saying that simply because I think a work is bad does not mean that I harbor any resentment towards its author. It is entirely possible to accidentally mishandle some aspect of writing, which is what happened here. No one thinks you did anything malicious or that you don't care about PTSD.

And you can rest assured that we're highly unlikely to bring you up here ever again, especially since it seems that you respond to concrit so well. I would not take kindly to anyone attempting to bring up your fics here again.

--Ls

thank you very much by puripuri on 2024-04-25 15:40:33 UTC Reply

okay, i'm very glad to hear that. i just wanted to know I could write in peace without being swarmed or smth.

I see. by Linstar on 2024-04-25 21:04:50 UTC Reply

It's understandable that you wouldn't know how we work, especially given that you were sent here by a malicious troll who vastly mischaracterized us. If you are interested in how we do things, I would suggest you follow the links Nesh has provided. Again, thank you for being so cordial.

As for fanfiction critique circles... the PPC isn't the only one. I am part of the MST website The Asylum Riffs and I occasionally frequent Das Sporking. Fanfiction critiquing groups are pretty niche, and none of the ones I mentioned allow or facilitate harassment (though this is not to say that that has never resulted from any similar fanfic critique groups). Many of us here enjoy writing and critiquing each other's fanfics. I would posit that there's nothing wrong with giving an in-depth review of fanfiction or any other small, individual work, like a self-published novel. It can be entertaining to discuss bad works among friends, which is what our goal is, never to harass or blame an author for the flaws in their works.

--Ls

...I somehow confused you with FinnFinn, who was the actual OP here. *facepalm* (nm) by Linstar on 2024-04-24 17:21:25 UTC Reply

Hey, thanks for stopping by! by Linstar on 2024-04-24 14:47:11 UTC Reply

I saw that brought you here, and I hope you know that we wish you no ill and are not harassing anyone. Glad to hear you weren't trying to trivialize PTSD, and I wish you luck in future fic writing.

--Ls has alerted Thunder to this

Hey, tech heads up: it's impossible to click links in spoiler tags by Kі nо Shirayuki on 2024-02-01 10:07:53 UTC Edited Reply

and you also can't select any text covered by spoiler tags either; you don't have to black out links, you can just make it unclickable text.

Thank you, it's done. (nm) by Finnfinn on 2024-02-01 10:36:07 UTC Reply