Subject: Re: OT: het vs slash
Author:
Posted on: 2009-08-04 00:37:00 UTC
I honestly adore both gay and straight romances - and anything in between - as long as it's done right.
Subject: Re: OT: het vs slash
Author:
Posted on: 2009-08-04 00:37:00 UTC
I honestly adore both gay and straight romances - and anything in between - as long as it's done right.
Recently I've been noticing more and more slash fans that, at the very least, dislike fictional heterosexuality in all its forms. On the other hand I've also become more aware of the opposite attitude amongst het writers. Very few writers I've seen are actually willing to consider both het and slash as viable options. I know it's probably just me paying more attention, but it's an interesting phenomenon nonetheless.
Het fans of the PPC, how do you feel about slash? Slashers, what do you think of het? Is anyone here an equal fan of both het and slash? If you're firmly on one side, what puts you off reading the other, if there's a specific reason that you feel like sharing?
As long as it's a goodfic, anything goes. And as long as it's realistic, no ten-second romances or anything; I'm vehemently against the concept of 'love at first sight' and related things. Love takes time or hardship, and lots of fics apply neither of the two to the pair. These are normally considered badfic.
Mostly, though, I prefer nonromance plots or ones where the romance is not the main plot. I like stories more when the ships, canon or not, occur as an aside instead of dominating the story. Large or small, it's subplots most of the time. After all, it seems somewhat silly to have a world where people live for relationships alone.
it seems somewhat silly to have a world where people live for relationships alone.
Mostly true, except when the protagonist is a teenage girl. Obsession with potential romances is a common theme of those years.
I was pondering last night why I like plot in books, but I'm less fussed when I'm reading on the screen. Didn't come to any conclusions at all, except possibly that fic with lots of plot tends to be on the long side, and I've more patience for a long read in book form. Will keep mulling over that one, though, because it's clearly not just me, if the majority of fanfic's anything to go by.
And they do have reasons for being the terms - slash because of the use of the / character, e.g. the classic pairing: Kirk/Spock.
And het is an abbreviation for 'heterosexual', as I'm sure you can guess :)
Just because that's the terms used in general, and they make sense, doesn't make it sound any less stupid.
I'll read het or slash, bad or good.
Preferably good.
I think the company I keep has changed me, I used to avoid slash like the plague. But now I do rather like it.
...as long as all those involved are in character, no Sues or Stus are involved, no canon relationships are broken up, all the characters are consenting adults, and there's no incest. This, of course, means I like about four percent of the het/slash out there, dislike a further thirty-five percent, and am completely squicked by everything else.
This is mostly because I dislike romance fics as a whole, and whenever I see a summary that includes either slash or yaoi (how on earth do you pronounce that, anyway?), I always get the impression that said fic is entirely about the slash*. Which, to me, is boring and likely to involve canon rape (as is shipping in general). I know this isn't always the case, but I don't want to wade through the 999 pieces of crap to find the single gem.
*This applies to yuri as well, but it's a lot less common.
I hadn't thought about it before, but that's the impression I get, too - if "slash" is in the summary, I think it's all about a slash relationship.
Though in all fairness, that's probably because so many of the 'fics out there centre on a romance of some sort - if I see "Harry/Ginny" in a summary, I tend to expect it to be a romance as well, or at least focused on them. Sad thing is that it's very often true :(
It's a good point, I'll give you that. Unfortunately if we don't label a work as slash, then people complain.
So where do you stand on the romance fics, then, Sedri? Because there are zillions of the buggers, and a comparatively small amount of non-romance fics - do you generally favour the former or the latter?
Possibly a Hopeless Romantic, but I'd like to think I have some sense. That said, if you're asking what I like to read, then it'd be lovely to have more stories around that don't involve romance at all... but then, it's rather hard to cut it out entirely, since all character interaction between a pair (or not-pair, as the case may be) can be affected by the percieved relationship - body language, terms of endearment, and so on.
As for labels, maybe we should start a habit of labelling all stories as "slash" OR "het" OR "no romance" - treat the "het" label as being as necessary as the "slash" label and see if it catches on?
I dunno about you, dear, but we always do label our het as such. Not that we write just het by itself, but if it's in there with the slash, then we warn for both.
Sorry, the phrasing was unclear. I meant, why not nag every author and community we know to do the same thing?
...of slash/het fics that aren't romantic?
I ask because everyone here seems to be working on the assumption that slash/het has to be of the romantic variety. This isn't necessarily true, especially in a one-shot PWP or a fic dealing with a subject such as rape or stalking.
Where there's an established relationship but it's not ABOUT the relationship.
Having reread that, I have had an epiphany.
I really dislike the Happy AU Where Everyone Is Straight.
Unfortunately, practically all het falls into this category.
I think you ought to start some kind of flag-waving group for Good Slash. Every time this sort of discussion comes up, the notion of Good Slash tends to be forgotten, and you're right - that's wrong. Looking back at my own post, I should have said something along those lines, and didn't. Bad me.
Sorry, Pads.
S'alright, Sedriface - you're such an avid anti-slasher I can see why you'd forget.
Thing is, I'm not entirely sure that Ansela's right in the original post, when she says she's seen a lot of anti-het slashers and anti-slash, er, hetters? The best slash usually has some het in there too, and that doesn't bother us slashers in the least. Sure, I tell her off for writing smelly het, but it's mostly a joke born of my defensiveness about slash. And the defensiveness comes in part from the inequality; no one minds a bit of het on the side in their slash, but people get very vocal about not wanting the slightest hint of slash in their het.
After all, if homosexual relationships had been acknowledged and accepted centuries ago, we'd be used to it, but since it hasn't, they're still making a big stupid fuss about the matter, and a lot of us grew up without more than a vague theoretical knowledge of the subject - which is why I still find myself jarred a bit when there's suddenly slash in a story, even if it's just a background mention.
By "jarred" I don't mean "repulsed" or "offended", just surprised, and I don't like that, but it happens because I wasn't conditioned for it. Hopefully, in ten years, I and the vast majority of the world will be able to read it without batting an eye.
One would hope. I suspect it may take rather more than ten years though. Unless they're marketed as LGBT, it's pretty hard to find a book today in which characters just happen to be non-heterosexual. I'm hoping this may change within a few decades as more and more of the slash writers who've cropped up over the past decade start writing original fiction and getting it published, but even then there's the publishing industry's standards to take into account.
I admit that I sort of had plans to be part of the problem in this case; I was going to write a teen-level book, featuring two characters who acted as gay for each other as I could possibly make them without actually holding their wedding on stage, just so I could pretend to be horrified when people asked me if I meant it that way. Yeah, my sense of humour is a little odd.
On a fundamental, subconscious level, I don't believe in slash, in much the same way that I don't believe in breathing underwater.
This does not mean that I run screaming from the merest whiff of same-gender interaction; I have no objection to interaction, friendship, even situations that look compromising, between two persons of the same gender. I do get a bit antsy at, for instance, Twelfth Night and the like, for the implications that naturally arise.
That said, I tend to avoid het, as well, if it appears to be approaching the realm of the lemon.
A lot of what I read is femmeslash, but I wouldn't say I'm a slasher. If I'm looking for mindless romance, or *winces* smut, it's gonna be femmeslash, chances are, since I'm a lesbian. There's also a side of the fact that it's a lot easier to find f/f romance on the internet.
That said, I have no dislike of het or m/m slash, and I'll read either one if it's good. Really, I care more about your general writing, and how well you portray the characters, than said characters' genders.
I honestly adore both gay and straight romances - and anything in between - as long as it's done right.
I'm lean quite heavily towards slash, personally. It makes up the bulk of what I read and write on the internet. I see nothing wrong with het though, especially now that I've started looking at the het subtext in my main canon, as well as the slash.
My main reason for avoiding het fics is the fact that very few het pairings interest me, and it's pretty hard to find well-written fics for the ones that do. Plus the het shipping wars are pretty scary, especially for someone like me who can't pick a 'side' and stick with it.
To me, it really doesn't matter as long as it's at least somewhat plausible of a pairing. (Snape and Dumbledore? No, not seeing it.) I think I lean toward het more just because I can just relate to it better. That or girl-on-girl, but people don't seem to write as many of those.
So we can't interest you in Seamus/Dumbledore then? Well, darn.
I'm not hugely taken with femslash, but I think that's because, like het, I can go out and actually experience it if I so choose.
You have a point. As I'm in a serious relationship, I really can't go out, find some pretty thing, and have one fun night together.
Plus, "real-life" "femslash" tends to be two dumb college girls just doing it for the attention. That kind of stuff irks me.
I honestly think that fictional femslash, het, or slash are more glorified and exciting than the real experience. If I can't be involved, I'd rather read a well-written love scene than watch some bimbos make out for everyone's entertainment.
Oh, very much agreed. I'm a slasher through and through, but actually watching gay porn? Nah. I'd rather have a cuppa and watch EastEnders.
Certainly true that the fiction tends to be a bit idealised and what have you. Probably comes as a bit of a let down to anyone who's grown up reading it and then gets their leg over. No bluebirds, no rainbows, no passing out from pleasure. Although the no foot long wossnames probably comes as a relief.
That reminds me, I think my favorite page on the Wiki was the DubeLube. I'm sure inexperienced people don't appreciate fic writers messing with that important little detail.
Yes, it's Trojie's pet project, that page. We do our best to keep it up to date.
As one of the contributors to that page, I've learned that there's not much that badfic writers won't do to characters in the name of sex, and that if I'm going to take tips I should stick to the handful of writers I trust.
I still read about it regularly and make whatever filthy jokes I can think of, but the actual process sounds supremely gross to me. Not sure if that's related to my Aspergers', or if I'm genuinely a non-sexual person, or if I'm just a late bloomer - I kinda doubt the latter, I turn twenty in less than two months and I'd have thought I'd have had SOME reaction other than "ick" by now - but if anyone asks, I'm blaming fanfic.
Somehow the fanfic unaccountably fails to mention the array of embarrassing/disturbing/hilarious (delete as appropriate) sound effects.
for not encountering those fanfics that do.
But even then, so long as it's consenting.
But I still think I'm gonna be steering clear. I don't need the added complication in my life.
I maintain celibacy for just that reason. Well, mostly, anyway.
Don't get me wrong, it's not like I think there's anything inherently "dirty" or shameful about them. But there's nothing dirty or shameful about one's kidneys or the inside of one's nostril either, and that *still* doesn't mean I want to spend time examining said parts.
We may have to differ on that one. Internal organs are fascinating, to my mind, and there's nothing quite like taking a carcass apart to see how it all fits together. (I blame bleedthrough from Trojie's brain.)
I'll grant that genitals really aren't terribly aesthetically pleasing, though.
If I wanted het, dear, I'd fall off the celibacy wagon (again). Slash, however, I cannot have, and so must simply read instead.
Incidentally, you know Trojie and I are winding you up when we say we don't believe in het, right? Well, mostly winding you up at any rate.