Could we please stop talking about this subject and just get on with doing something else?

Many good points have been raised in this thread, and we all seem to be in agreement that all our writing could use improvement. We can't all be Jays and Acacias, after all.

But look where this thread has gone. People are actually contemplating LEAVING the PPC! I doubt that was anyone in this thread's intent. The theme of this thread was "hey, did you know your writing could be tuned up?" and not "GET OUT YOU BITCHES YOU MAKE THE PPC SUCK AND I'M A BETTER WRITER THAN YOU!" but I'm getting the feeling that some among us are getting the latter impression. This is no one's fault but the stress.

We want to write comedy? Well, this thread isn't putting anyone in the mood to write comedy. I applaud the attitude of everyone in here, but the feel of this thread gives me and probably many others the chills.

Sop, with all due respect, your honor, may we please adjourn the court?

Don't you like the Dark Lord Geranium?

No squick, no excessive gore, no genderbending. Just some agents splatting Sues with a minimum of drama and maximum of snark. Trying to keep the rating down too, as my agents developed the habit of cursing too much during the squickfic missions and I need to do some more that everyone can enjoy. (Will have to lampshade that in a future mission: "It's R-rated. Obligatory swearing is obligatory." Excuse the troping.)

While on that topic, I can promise I will NEVER EVER use rape as a punchline again. I have a very dark sense of humour and I'd been reading a lot of Something Positive around the time I wrote the missions with Drip and the Trees. I am aware it's not funny in real life, and even in fiction it's not funny if something which counts as a person is on the giving or receiving end (unless it's a Fanficrants entry about how poorly-written it is, of course). I don't personally think it has the same dynamic if the victim's a much-hated badfic character and the attacker's a tree because nobody has ever been attacked by a tree in real life and therefore nobody can really be reminded of bad experiences or anything by it, but that was funny *one* time and I'll not use it again because I am not Randal Milholland and can't push my luck with it. Besides, the agents should have learned their lesson from whatever hell FicPsych put them through. They DID get in trouble for that in-universe, I just didn't make much of it onscreen because I couldn't find a way to make it funny or interesting.

Especially Krisprolls.

Now this makes me glad I haven't gone and tried to write my own missions. Otherwise, Glod knows I would have been flamed to hell and back at some point. I'm sure that with my utter lack of writing experience, I would have ended up making some of the biggest Agent!Sues in PPC history. This is precisely the reason why I decided to never attempt PPCings before first gaining the ability to write good characters and stories. If I do end up trying, however, I'll try to keep this in mind and avoid that sort of thing.

There is a lot of rage around here.

I don't mind when people decide to add some extra things. The routine stuff gets kind of repetitive.

Having said that? Yeah. I get the feeling my characters are included in this volley. Given that I've got a pair of fragging Force-users, the PPC might be better served by my killing them off and just walking away.
But you know what? I like my characters, including their abilities, which are part of who they are. I like using them for this. I don't believe they're Sue/Stu. But what I believe probably doesn't matter terribly much. My characters have full personalities, and the few missions they have done were fairly according to the Duty.

But... I just don't know. If others feel the PPC has no place for them or for me... okay. I could just let things go back to normal for others.

I... really don't feel good now. Can't help but wonder how many people might actually loathe what I've been doing.

Before I begin, I would like to warn anyone who plans on reading this that I'm not very experienced with the PPC, since I've only been here for about two months. I also tend to ramble.
I haven't written any missions, but I really hope I can keep these things in mind for them. I'm not planning on writing any emergencies. Sheesh. I thought the point was to kill the Sues and point out the flaws of the badfics. In fact, after I read TOS, I was dismayed to find out that Makes-Things had been killed nearly a year earlier from when I found the PPC. I guess it's stuck that way now, at least for me.
Personally, I like the way TOS was set up: fairly standard with extra humor and twists added in. There was that blue unicorn deal with Lux, a vacation at the OFUM, the barbeque, a few agent changes, and a department change, among other things. Both agents had their blatant flaws and good attributes.
Hopefully, since this came up before I began any missions, I can write out the mental storyline better. I don't want my characters to become total Sues. I shudder to think of what would happen then.
Anyway, I agree on most of these views and I really hope I don't end up tripping up on one of them. I just want to write and take a whack at the badfic I loathe. Good luck to all other newbies who plan to write missions!

...agreed, agreed, agreed. The reason I haven't been around here much has nothing to do with the influx of newbies (hell, we need newbies, and I for one welcome them with open arms) as much as it does with the sheer amount of drama and random PPC-wide emergencies that have been going on for quite a while.

And frankly, I don't care for it. Makes-Things is still alive in my personal canon, and he's going to stay that way for quite a while if I have anything to say about it.

Who, me? 0_0

*flinch* *sweatdrop*

If we're indulging in a group confessional here, Boarder! Trojie and Pads will raise their hands to excessive use of unexplained in-jokes and PPC drama - we have had a non-PPC friend say she felt like she was wandering into a long-running soap opera mid-season, after reading one of our missions. This is clearly not a welcoming practice, and we will be putting up a general post on Trojie's LJ explaining background and backstory in the interests of clarifying things for newcomers.

Also we are guilty of allowing a Potterverse AU character to use Potterverse spells in other magical continua, although in our defence, this was only in continua so warped that their own laws of behavior weren't working in the fic, and the spells were used directly to counter the effects of a Suethor, for instance, giving Lucy Pevensie a sex-change. Said Potterverse AU character is also an implausible recruitment/resurrection of a canon character. Oops.

We're also very, very guilty of Not Taking Things Seriously, playing les buggeures risibles in missions and on the Board, seeking out, deliberately, the worst smutfic missions we can find and then downplaying their disgustingness, having Agents specifically tailored to suit their jobs enough that squicking them is tricky (one a biology fanatic, one from such a bloody bizarre AU with regards to sex and sexuality that a lot of things are 'normal' to her...) and a large number of adopted animals, CAFs, minis, children, and Agents in general in our repertoire.

We sound like we're taking the piss towards the end of this, and this is not technically true. What we are trying to do is admit to failings without moping, and striving towards improvement without losing our senses of humour.

We have also recently been found guilty of posting missions unbetaed. We're very, very sorry.

As I haven't really been around, the main thing I have to offer is the point of view of a (sort of) oldbie who has recently returned, and therefore is able to offer a fairly accurate perspective of what has changed.

Unfortunately, I'm going to have to agree with Sara on many of your points. As I've been desperately been trying to catch up with things via wiki, the number of "emergencies" is overwhelming. From what I can see, everybody wants to be able to say "my character was there when..." and the fact is, not everybody is going to be internetfamous all the time. I've also noticed the trend of increasingly Sueish agents, which is a problem. As Sara pointed out, these are supposed to be regular people doing a job that they care about. It's difficult, it's frustrating, the food is awful and the pay is low. We do it because we love canon.

Also, something everybody may want to keep in mind; fellow PPC'ers are not the only ones reading your missions. As I've been recently reminded, my old (not particularly good or original I realise) PPC fanfictions drew a good handful of people to the PPC who perhaps would otherwise never have heard of it. As I've been trying to catch up on what's been going on, something I've noticed is that your stories are SO full of in-jokes and PPC drama that anybody who isn't heavily involved in the PPC is probably going to very quickly lose interest.

Hopefully this thread doesn’t disintegrate into a massive, pointless flame war. I feel that Sara has brought up some very valid points which are worth looking into and discussing.

I'm pretty new here, so I don't presume to know much, but...

I dunno, I think using that same formula makes things a bit monotonous. I mean, it's often stressed that killing Sues and exorcising Wraiths and such is dangerous work, but a lot of times agents just, as you say, go in, snark a bit, kill the threat, and leave. I mean, shouldn't we spice things up a bit by actually showing that what our Agents are doing can be life-threatening as well as sanity-threatening?

And also, "Tropes are devices and conventions that a writer can reasonably rely on as being present in the audience members' minds and expectations. On the whole, tropes are not clichés." That was quoted from TVTropes. Just because it's a trope doesn't mean it's automatically a cliche. I mean, there are some tropes like the Big No and other Discredited Tropes that are considered overused, but not all of them are.

With the Emergencies and the big weapons and stuff, I agree. So far I've only seen one of the former, and I don't consider big weapons to be much fun. But I don't really see many of the SueAgents. Or maybe I just have low standards. I don't know.

Just wanted to put in my own two cents.

I think you might be over-exaggerating a bit with regards to the OMG EMERGENCIES. The only one I recall in recent memory was the 2008 Invasion, which was over a year ago. The April Fool's Day Invasion was a one-off gag, and the Macrovirus Crisis was essentially in the background.

I haven't really noticed any fixation on big weapons, to be honest. Chliever has a pretty big sword, but he's a pretty big guy and said type of sword is standard issue for his race. Maybe I've just been reading the wrong missions...

Your third point is the same as your first, incidentally.

I've made up a couple heads for Departments, but only because I was sure those Departments would otherwise never be used again. Does ANYONE remember the All-Purpose Department. I thought not.

You misjudge TVTropes, I see. Tropes are simply writing devices. They're not synonymous with cliches. If they're used too much, they become cliched. Not all tropes are cliched, as they're only cliched when they become boring. If we were boring, we'd all be cliches.

And really, I've noticed no increasing Suvianism in Agents. Perhaps you're overreacting?

Decent argument, but not without a few holes. I hope I don't come off as flamey.

Can be explained in every "repeated routine drives the focused character to madness" clip show ever included in any show or movie ever. After a while, it gets boring: that's why vacation days exist for pretty much all jobs. And certainly, it gets boring to read the same thing over and over with just the names switched around and different targets picked out.

I'm not suggesting that we up and close down HQ to turn the PPC into a traveling electric rock band-- for one thing, I doubt any of the Flowers would look good in plastic and leather. But some variance is nice: it does help make things interesting to break up or spice up the standard template of enter-bitch-snark-kill-leave. After all, "Strictly Formula" is a Trope, too.


And also, while I'm hardly the most pleased about Makes-Things' death, it really did open up a chance to put more focus on the DoSAT as a whole rather than just the one man. The DoSAT isn't supposed to be just Makes-Things, but as long as he was alive that's how it was treated.


I must admit, I'm fully expecting to get stomped on for saying some of this stuff. But it is what I think.

Maybe actually, you know, write things more than occasionally. {= P

My own confession is that I find myself drawn over and over toward psychological drama and, though I shudder to say it, angst. The fact of dealing with insane people in insane situations makes me want to know what makes them the way they are, and to explore the effects badfic has on them physically and psychologically. This fascinates me, but it leads me away from humor at times. I have to fight that tendency when it comes to my own agents and, perhaps, develop it into writing about the canon characters in FicPsych instead. In that case, I also have to get over my fear of writing canon characters. If they're in FicPsych it's a given that they aren't quite themselves, right? So if I get some things off I'd be forgiven, right? ^_^;

Hopefully my next story will set some things right.

~Neshomeh

And as quite possibly the original offender in the OMG THAR IS AN EMERGENCY category, I certainly should. (I can tell by how many times I've wanted to right "However..." so far)

... right, no more excuses; I'm going to sit down and write a normal, standard mission with no drama other than, y'know, the sort that normally comes from a pair of insane people wandering around in a bad fanfiction.

hS

Decent argument, I must say. I admit I'm guilty of name-dropping a few new Flowers, but only for Departments I was fairly sure would just be forgotten if I didn't do that.

Nevertheless, good Argument. One thing I disagree with, though, was your assessment of the death of M-T. Why can't the status quo be shaken up once in a while?

Also, in before wank.

... agents dealing with some everyday non-mission-related problems. More character interaction. Nothing huge and world-threatening, just how they deal with life and the problems that naturally come along with being a PPC agent. Or, heck, what happens when missions go horribly wrong? Not necessarily involving the agents being captured and nearly tortured to death, but it'd be more fun if occasionally they screwed up.

Reminds me, I need to come up with something horrible to happen to Agent Foxglove - Laburnum's already been through a nasty near-failed mission thanks to her own inability to think things through.

"Cool, your Agent is a taller-than-average man who can't be beat at fights physical or magical"

Mine's a woman who can do that (except the magical thing). Is that original? :P

In all seriousness, though, I think I agree with you. I've actually become more and more hesitant about joining the PPC as I discover more and more of the crazy history behind it. Fortunately, Pads is helping me draft my character profiles. So if I screw them up, it's all her fault. *scampers away*

*returns* As for Sue/Stu Agents, are we allowed to have missions where we kill them? *scampers away again*

All these recent dramas haven't even come close to catching my interest, and I have no interest in reading missions that are predictable and more concerned with "great" new things than the agents and the awfulness of the badfic - because that's what the PPC is about: Badfic.

If I recall correctly, in the notes of one of their early missions, Jay made a comment about how she and Acacia were finding that their agents were getting a lot of screentime, and was concerned that the readers weren't interested in the agents. They were, thankfully, and that's why most of us are here, but the point is that the PPC's own founders did not start this wonderful place in order to write about themselves - the intention was always to deal with badfic.

Let's keep it that way, 'kay?

The overdrama, overacting, overkill has been stifling lately. We need to tone down, slow down, and think before we do things. Is it gratuitous? Is it self-serving? Is it funny? Is it in keeping with the spirit of being the hard-working, everyday Agent just doing their job? If the answers are anything but no, no, yes and yes, then why are we doing it?

Go on, make my day. I've been missing the humor around here.

Only minor apologies for the snark.