An Engineer's perspective on tele-camping.

Subject: An Engineer's perspective on tele-camping.
Author: SeaTurtle
Posted on: 2014-07-29 14:21:00 UTC

First of all, let's just make this very clear: spawncamping is not fun. Not being able to play the game is really, really frustrating. That being said, stalling the enemy team is very useful.

Suppose we're on Badwater. Click on the link to see the labeled map. I'm BLU and my team has captured the third point. At this point Badwater becomes this huge mess of RED sentries, Snipers, and Spies: without a coordinated über push into Pit, there is no way to break their defences. I build my tele entrance near second BLU spawn and the exit in Attic, near the window. I usually set up my nest behind Sniper Room to repel RED flanking maneuvers coming from Spiral Stairs.

Now, I can't easily check if my tele exit is clear: doing so will mean having to walk back to Attic Steps for twenty seconds, and that is waaaayyyyy too long to leave my sentry unattended. I have no choice but to trust my teammates to keep the area clear.

Let's add some complications. A RED Heavy-Medic über pair push up Ramp and completely wipe my team. While they're respawning, they make it to Attic and hear my teleporter. The Hoovy revs up his minigun and waits.

The most information I have at this point is that my team was killed at Ramp by an über pair. I have no idea where the Heavy is. Nobody interrupts me at my nest so I assume either the Heavy ducked back into Pit to resupply at a dispenser or he pushed into Attic. If none of my teammates say anything, I have no idea where he went.

My teammates start respawning and queue for the tele (except for Scouts, for whom the tele is a waste of time). They get picked off one by one as they pop out the other end. They wait to respawn again, wasting valuable seconds that could've counted towards a push.

Here's the crux of the matter: if I know someone is camping my tele, I will remotely destroy the exit and rebuild somewhere else, thereby allowing my team to continue spawning at a forward position. If nobody tells me anything, I assume the tele is clear and continue watching Spiral Stairs. Most people don't play with a mic or say stuff in the chat, so I'm flying blind.

Eventually someone will wise up and walk over to Attic and challenge the Heavy-Medic pair. But until then, my teleporter is not helping the team and no pressure is being put on RED. All of that wasted time contributes to our defeat.

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Reintro with another name by Anonymouse on 2014-07-26 10:39:00 UTC Reply

Hello everyone. Previously (as in almost a year ago) I introduced myself as ThePoketrix, but after a while decided it wasn't a good idea for reasons I won't go into detail over.

And so I have returned. I probably won't be here often, but I'll pop in and deliver you guys some fics every now and then.

If you're wondering, I major in Pokemon and My Little Pony.

Returnby gifts by Sevenswans on 2014-07-27 03:02:00 UTC Reply

Well, mice and rats are actually generally lactose intolerant at adulthood, like most mammals except for humans, but since I assume you're not actually a rodent, have a wheel of Gouda and a clock gear!

Rodent? by Anonymouse on 2014-07-27 08:27:00 UTC Reply

Hehe, yeah, not actually a mouse. And thank you for the cheese! Not sure what I'm gonna do with the clock gear... maybe hang it on the wall as a decorative object or something...

Mice are lactose intolerant... huh. Who knew?

Welcome back! by Iximaz on 2014-07-26 20:58:00 UTC Reply

In lieu of your MLP fandom, have a statuette of one of the Mane Six of your choice, and a mooing horse!

Re: Welcome back! by Anonymouse on 2014-07-27 02:01:00 UTC Reply

I guess the Twilight one, and- uhm, okay... mooing horse...

Hi there! by eatpraylove on 2014-07-26 19:17:00 UTC Reply

Have a peanut butter sandwich on toast!

PB sandvich on toast by Anonymouse on 2014-07-26 19:36:00 UTC Reply

Ooh, that looks good. Don't mind if I do, thank you!

...

Great, now I'm hungry irl. Be back.

Did you say "sandvich"? by SeaTurtle on 2014-07-27 02:26:00 UTC Reply

Y-y-you wouldn't happen to play TF2, would you?

Mmm, sandviches by Anonymouse on 2014-07-27 08:37:00 UTC Reply

Actually, yes, I do. Was hoping someone would catch that.

I'm a noob that usually only plays as Soldier, and I have no hats. I do know a bit about TF2 canon, though, which I used to find a couple of MLP/TF2 fics I put on the list...

Yay, TF2 reference! by eatpraylove on 2014-07-27 13:45:00 UTC Reply

I used to play that game a lot, but then my Internet changed and Steam stopped working, so I had to uninstall the whole shebang. I'll wait until we get better internet to reinstall; thankfully, it's free. (Also, thank you for creating a bag of NM&NMs. *munches*)

Are there any other TF2 players on the Board? by SeaTurtle on 2014-07-27 19:55:00 UTC Reply

'Cause if there are, you might bump into a Medic or an Engineer named "SeaTurtle" on some East Coast payload servers tonight. ~~BADWATER IS BEST MAP AND YOU CAN'T MAKE ME PLAY CTF~~]

By the way, have any of you guys seen Expiration Date yet?

I used to play... by Phobos on 2014-07-28 20:17:00 UTC Reply

...back when I had a computer that could handle it. I should get back into it sometime.

Anyway, I have a few classes that I use, depending on the situation.

Cloak and Dagger Spy - CP and Payload maps if we face Heavy opposition.

Soldier - CTF maps. Black Box and Gun Boats.

Scout - Any map. Total annoyance decoy. I rock a mean fish. Probably my most used class.

Engineer - CTF maps. Nothin' fancy, just as the Engineer intended.

I occasionally use the other classes if I think there is a need, but not much. I'm almost never a Medic.

If you ever run into "Phobos [OX]" know that you have a friend in the game. A friend who will not hesitate to fish-slap you repeatedly.

-Phobos

Aside from the Engie... by SeaTurtle on 2014-07-28 21:28:00 UTC Reply

...those are all classes I am terrible at. I usually run:

Engineer: stock shotty, stock pistol, Southern Hospitality. Smack everyone who approaches your stuff and look behind you between wrench swings.

Medic: stock needlegun, stock Medigun, Übersaw. Overheal the front-line players, über a Demoman to break an Engineer nest, Spycheck like mad with the saw, repeat. Remember: the über is a game-changer. Run away from hopeless engagements and save your charge. Your teammates are expendable; your Medigun is not.

Demoman: stock 'Nade launcher, stock sticky launcher, Ullapool Caber. Strike fear into the enemy team by sticky-jumping into their rear lines, destroying their sentry and teleporter, blowing up their Engineer, and reaching Valhalla by Cabering their Medic.

~~Hoovy~~ Heavy: Stock minigun, Sandvich, GRU. The Sandvich is primarily for extinguishing my Medic and the GRU are for quick transport. Become the team's damage sponge and the Medic's über target. Afterwards: Kill. Everything.

Strategerie by Phobos on 2014-07-28 22:12:00 UTC Reply

Spy - Cloak and wait for a Heavy to wander by. My knife earned a nickname from this strategy. "Dirty Backstabber" is what a particular Heavy player said any time I joined the server.

Soldier - Take to the roof tops and go for maximum mobility. Surprise the enemy whenever possible.

Scout - Run around. Force-A-Nature to get some set-up kills. Fish + Face = Winning

Engineer - Find a nice blind corner and hang out. Never go chasing after suspicious persons.

I'll keep that in mind. by SeaTurtle on 2014-07-29 00:18:00 UTC Reply

I have to ask, though: do you have any more tips for the Spy? Most of the time, my attempts at assassination or destroying an Engineer nest end really, really badly. Any Pyro with half a brain spychecks his team regularly and most Medics I try to frag get suspicious and call me out to their team.

How I do it by Phobos on 2014-07-29 14:51:00 UTC Reply

I operate a little more slowly than most Spys. I don't mess with the Engineers much, because I use spy in a defensive manner, and my team is usually on top of that. It doesn't work for some people, admittedly, but it works for me.

Step 1) Find some hiding spots - I usually operate in an area that has several places to lay low. In a CP or Payload map, that is usually somewhere near the first control point, en route to the rest of the map.

Step 2) Cloak and Dagger - If you can stay invisible forever, you can play the long game. Wait for your moment to strike.

Step 3) Pick your target - How can you best break the other team's momentum? Is there a particular Heavy giving you trouble? Take him out. Take him out again. Keep taking him out. (This is how I got the "Dirty Backstabber" nickname. I took their best player out of the game for the second half of the map.) I avoid Medics, personally. They tend to be more suspicious than anyone else. Let the Snipers take care of them later.

Step 4) Hit and run - Kill your target, then immediately cloak and run. Don't go for the double kill. Don't get fancy. Just strike and reset. After a while, they will send in the Pyros. Just lay low and move only as much as you need to stay out of their way.

Step 4) Teleporters from Spawn - If they are bypassing you with teleporters, use them to gain the advantage. Few Engi's, in my experience, are immediately suspicious of teammates who teleport in. Have your sapper and knife ready to cause chaos on the other end.

Rule number 1, in my book, is "Draw their attention." That sounds backwards, for a Spy, but it isn't. If your opponents have to divert resources to hunt down a single, troublesome Spy, then you are doing your job.

-Phobos

Sweet. One more thing... by SeaTurtle on 2014-07-29 14:56:00 UTC Reply

...do you have any weapon recommendations? I usually carry the Étranger with the stock knife and watch, but I've heard a lot of good things about the Dead Ringer and the Conniver's Kunai. Those are obviously more advanced items, but should I start getting good with them?

My recs by Phobos on 2014-07-29 15:13:00 UTC Reply

I use the Ambassador for my pistol. It helps if I need to take out a troublesome Medic or Engi. A few good head shots and they go down pretty quick.

For the knife, I just use my "Dirty Backstabber" which is just a stock knife with a name. You might also go with Your Eternal Reward, if you don't mind the lack of choice for your disguise.

As for the watch, I stick with the Cloak and Dagger. Like I said, I like to play the long game, and that lets me set up and wait for my chance. The Dead Ringer is, I feel, overused. Sure it can keep you from dying, but you know what else can do that? Not getting caught. You're better off with the normal watch or the C&D (especially since your opponent will assume you are using the DR anyway).

This is, of course, just personal preference.

-Phobos

Re: Strategerie by Anonymouse on 2014-07-28 22:53:00 UTC Reply

Ehh, I'm too new to the game have any good strategies, but I do have one that I consider good...

When doing a Payload map as Blu, I "pull" the cart by positioning myself right in front of the cart and letting the cart push me, that way I'm not caught blind by Red forces in front of the cart. If anybody tries to attack from behind, I hope to the gods above that there's someone behind the cart and pushing, and that if there is, he's looking backwards. First time I did it I got in the MVP list three times in four matches, but I haven't yet been able to replicate that...

Are we discussing Payload strats? by SeaTurtle on 2014-07-29 00:47:00 UTC Reply

I'll give you Payload strats... and some general tips too.

- The bomb cart moves fastest with three players on the point. Additional players do not make it move faster.

- The cart acts like a level 1 dispenser.

- Scouts count for two people when capping.

- Have a Pyro watch the cart and spray fire everywhere. Spies often prey on the cart pushers since they usually face the front, where the rest of RED are.

- Always assume there is a Spy watching the cart. That Heavy over there not on the cart, right next to that convenient escape route? Spy. Kill him with fire.

- Unless you see they disappear in front of you, assume all enemy Spies have the Dead Ringer on them. They're not dead. Be super paranoid.

- Tell your Engineer if his teleporter placement is off. If the enemy team is camping the exit, warn your team instead of sending them to pointless deaths.

- Camp the enemy teleporter exit. A dead player is better than a delayed player.

- As BLU team Engineer, POOT DISPENSER as close to the action as possible so your team can restock/heal up in seconds. Keep the pressure on RED.

- Upgrade, repair, and watch over your fellow Engineers' buildings! Two wrenches (and metal supplies) are better than one.

- RED takes 15 seconds to respawn on a Payload map. BLU takes 5. If RED takes a big hit, BLU will push that cart very far.

- Learn how to rocket/sticky jump.

- See that little red/blue dot on the wall at head height over there? There's a Sniper watching that corner. Hang on to your head and use the cart as cover.

- Most Pyros know how to airblast rockets back at you. Pull out your shotgun instead, it confuses the heck out of them.

- Do not try to mêlée a Pyro to death.

- A Pyro does not suffer from burn damage.

- The Pyro is neither a man or a woman. It is the embodiment of pure malice in an asbestos suit.

- A Spy drops his disguise when he uses any weapon except the sapper. Use this information to determine who is a real teammate and who has never fired a shot and is currently sneaking up behind you with his primary in his hands.

- Keep an eye on the chat. Someone without a mic might be trying to relay information to the team.

Re: Are we discussing Payload strats? by Anonymous on 2014-07-29 03:30:00 UTC Reply

>I knew the first three items. (Thank you, TF2 wiki and Team Service Announcement vids) As for the scout bit, I also know that the Pain Train makes Soldiers and Demomen also count as two people- and that both Scouts and Pain Train Soldiers/Demomen also count double while pushing the cart. (hence the Train bit? I dunno.)
>That Pyro bit might be the secret to the pull-the-cart strategy I mentioned- a pyro in back, some other class in front, and then a third class somewhere. Hmm.
>The camping teleporter exit bit actually goes against the Team Service Announcement, which said to destroy enemy teleporters instead of camp. I'm now unsure which to do.
>I agree with the last Pyro bit and add that Spies are just as bad. Seriously, I have my fair share of surprise kills already, I kinda don't need a class made for the job.
>If your team has more than two of Snipers and Spies combined, or has more than five of Engineers, Snipers, and Spies combined, there's a big problem.

An Engineer's perspective on tele-camping. by SeaTurtle on 2014-07-29 14:21:00 UTC Reply

First of all, let's just make this very clear: spawncamping is not fun. Not being able to play the game is really, really frustrating. That being said, stalling the enemy team is very useful.

Suppose we're on Badwater. Click on the link to see the labeled map. I'm BLU and my team has captured the third point. At this point Badwater becomes this huge mess of RED sentries, Snipers, and Spies: without a coordinated über push into Pit, there is no way to break their defences. I build my tele entrance near second BLU spawn and the exit in Attic, near the window. I usually set up my nest behind Sniper Room to repel RED flanking maneuvers coming from Spiral Stairs.

Now, I can't easily check if my tele exit is clear: doing so will mean having to walk back to Attic Steps for twenty seconds, and that is waaaayyyyy too long to leave my sentry unattended. I have no choice but to trust my teammates to keep the area clear.

Let's add some complications. A RED Heavy-Medic über pair push up Ramp and completely wipe my team. While they're respawning, they make it to Attic and hear my teleporter. The Hoovy revs up his minigun and waits.

The most information I have at this point is that my team was killed at Ramp by an über pair. I have no idea where the Heavy is. Nobody interrupts me at my nest so I assume either the Heavy ducked back into Pit to resupply at a dispenser or he pushed into Attic. If none of my teammates say anything, I have no idea where he went.

My teammates start respawning and queue for the tele (except for Scouts, for whom the tele is a waste of time). They get picked off one by one as they pop out the other end. They wait to respawn again, wasting valuable seconds that could've counted towards a push.

Here's the crux of the matter: if I know someone is camping my tele, I will remotely destroy the exit and rebuild somewhere else, thereby allowing my team to continue spawning at a forward position. If nobody tells me anything, I assume the tele is clear and continue watching Spiral Stairs. Most people don't play with a mic or say stuff in the chat, so I'm flying blind.

Eventually someone will wise up and walk over to Attic and challenge the Heavy-Medic pair. But until then, my teleporter is not helping the team and no pressure is being put on RED. All of that wasted time contributes to our defeat.

Telecamping by Anonymouse on 2014-07-29 15:55:00 UTC Reply

I hear you loud and clear on the spawncamping issue.
Up until then, I hadn't really seen much in the way of this issue- then again, my first instinct is to jump on text teamchat and yell that I just got telecamped, but still.

This does, however, make a lot more long-term sense than the Team Service Announcement's version, and I quote:

"Bonus Tip: Don't camp teleporter exits. Leaving the exit active so you can score a few cheap kills will only end with someone eventually killing you, and the teleporter still running. Even if you lay sticky bombs around it and wait for someone to come out, someone could show up and kill you while you're waiting. Just destroy it and go do helpful things."

Also, here's the video in question:

width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/AydkhtMl4nQ?feature=playerdetailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen>

...Dammit, embed doesn't work.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=playerdetailpage&v=AydkhtMl4nQ">Here's the video.

It depends on the situation, of course. by SeaTurtle on 2014-07-29 16:32:00 UTC Reply

If the enemy team is still going strong, you need to break their momentum first. Destroying the teleporter is then a good choice. If the enemy team is pushed to the last control point, you must stop them from securing a foothold. Once again, telecamping is not advisable. If they've been beaten back or they're playing really sloppy, you can afford a little bit of camping before destroying the tele and falling back to a more defensible position.

The thing to remember... by Phobos on 2014-07-29 17:01:00 UTC Reply

...is that it is only a matter of time before the Pyros start coming around looking for you. I usually take a single quick kill then take out the tele.

-Phobos

Gah, link is broken. by SeaTurtle on 2014-07-29 14:23:00 UTC Reply

Fixed.

I play it sometimes. by Sergio Turbo on 2014-07-27 20:44:00 UTC Reply

I mainly play on the Mario Kart custom maps (favourite is Mario Kart 2 V30) though - TF2 that way fits my need for "mindless fragging but with enough tactics to provide a challenge".

I play most classes, though my favourites are Sniper and Spy. The only ones I don't use much are Heavy and Medic.

Oh, and I currently go by That Annoying Turbo.

Nice. Ever played Counter-Strike? by SeaTurtle on 2014-07-27 21:01:00 UTC Reply

It's a lot more hardcore than most shooters out there: no regenerating health, get killed with three or so bullets, no aim-down sights, and you rely quite a lot on your ears to find people. It's still a lot of fun, though. PG-16 language on the video, by the way.

I'm starting to get better at it (read: stopped flashbanging his own teammates) but I'm still getting dominated by everyone and their cow. Maybe I should go back to playing against bots...

Nope. by Sergio Turbo on 2014-07-29 19:00:00 UTC Reply

I'm not a fan of the "realistic" multiplayer shooters.

In fact, there are exactly three games I play in multiplayer against people: TF2, World of Tanks and sort-of League of Legends (only when teaming with some IRL friends of mine, and I quite suck at it)

Expiration Date by Anonymouse on 2014-07-27 20:25:00 UTC Reply

I actually joined right after the Love and War update happened, and yes, I've seen Expiration Date. No spoilers though.

Hah! We need to get you reading. by SeaTurtle on 2014-07-27 20:37:00 UTC Reply

Here is the primer comic. Clicking on the final page will get you started on the main comic series tied to the game.

To see all of the comics, head on over to this page.

Happy reading and avoid playing as the Spy until you feel confident you can sap, stab, and furiously backpedal your way out of a well-entrenched Engineer's nest.

TF2 comics by Anonymouse on 2014-07-27 22:30:00 UTC Reply

Thank you! I've only gotten what I have through random pages of TF2 wiki and watching a few dubs of these comics, so having the actual comics helps a lot.

...

Oh, hey, they have a comic on how the Meet the Team vids were created in canon...

Wait, Scout hitting on Miss Pauling ISN'T a new thing from Expiration Date? Well then.

Achievement Unlocked: Merc (Become familiar with TF2 canon) (nm by Anonymouse on 2014-07-27 23:53:00 UTC Reply

Well, NM&NMs are my favorite form of Bleeprin. (nm) (nm) by Anonymouse on 2014-07-27 19:25:00 UTC Reply

And by list I mean the thread. Gah. (nm) (nm) by Anonymouse on 2014-07-27 08:38:00 UTC Reply

Welcome back by zdimensia on 2014-07-26 12:53:00 UTC Reply

Have a pair of Joo Janta 200 Super-Chromatic Peril Sensitive Sunglasses. Designed to help the wearer develop a relaxed attitude to danger, the lenses turn completely black at the first hint of trouble, thus preventing the wearer from seeing anything that might alarm him/her.

Joo Janta 200 Super-Chromatic Peril Sensitive Sunglasses by Anonymouse on 2014-07-26 16:36:00 UTC Reply

I can't imagine what use they'd be. If you were blinded at the first sign of danger, not only is that a dead giveaway that something is wrong, so the very mechanism that prevents the user from being alarmed would alarm the user, you can't see what's coming, so that further panics the wearer.

It'd be like Twilight in the episode It's About Time. She finds out that something is gonna happen and when it's gonna happen, but not what it is. She ends up flipping her lid.

And to make matters worse, the kind of danger that would most likely happen could probably endanger the wearer.

Also they don't seem to be able to fit over my prescription glasses without being lopsided...

It's still an interesting novelty piece, and also an interesting fusion of magic danger-sensing items and those special prescription glasses whose lenses darken like sunglasses' in sunlight, so thank you nonetheless. It'll probably go on my shelf next to my can of infinite cookies from my original welcome thread.