Subject: Re: 'Mávros'.
Author:
Posted on: 2014-04-17 19:23:00 UTC
The last one makes me think of Mavrick too much. I think I like mavronne.
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Plug/challenge - Agentshipping. by
on 2014-04-15 10:06:00 UTC
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If you were here for the last Badfic Game, you may remember my alter-ego JayBird posting a story 'for a friend'. It was described as canon-friendly Jay/Acacia slash - not something that necessarily happened, but something which could have happened, off-screen.
And it was heaps of fun to write. So I decided to write some more.
Near Misses - the original Jay/Acacia (which I think got named Byrdtree).
Rejection - Selene/Dafydd.
First Sight - Constance/... well, read it and see.
All three stories are targetted somewhere around PG-13 - there is discussion of sexual matters, but no actual sexing.
As to canonicity... well, like I say, they're canon-friendly. These are stories which could have taken place - but there's no firm evidence either way. If you ship the pairings, you can believe they happened; if you don't, you don't have to.
However, the non-ship details are canonical. Things like the Medical-Operations 'cold war' (mentioned in First Sight), which have never been mentioned before, but are canonised in these stories. If and when they make their way onto the wiki, the reference/link should make the semi-canonical state of affairs clear. (And heaven knows what we'll do about the shippy side of things... 'According to one account'?)
And the challenge/request: I've pretty much exhausted my supply of agents for this. Everyone else either doesn't spend enough screentime with anyone (as you can see, I try for five or six scenes to extend), or is actually in a relationship with them (which would make the 'canon-friendly' part redundant). Or at least, I think I have. If you can think of any other agents of mine who I could do this to, I'd be very grateful, because it's heaps of fun. ;)
And since it is heaps of fun - do you have agents you could do this to? They need plenty of screentime together, to not be in a relationship with each other, and to not be firmly stated not to be in such a relationship.
(And on that note - how do we feel about people writing 'canon-friendly' stories about other people's agents? Since it's fanfic, not new canon, I'm not as sure as I would otherwise be...)
hS -
All the ESAS crew are fair game by
on 2014-04-17 02:30:00 UTC
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with the exception of Iodin/Alagos (since they're boring smug marrieds, where's the fun in that).
I'm about to have 10 glorious days off and will try to write something during that time, but anyone who wants to have a go at the ESAS crowd is welcome to.
Elcalion -
Hehehe... by
on 2014-04-16 18:16:00 UTC
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I'd love to see what you could make of Morgan/Notary. I know there aren't that many moments they share, but that's mostly because the Notary hasn't shared all that many moments with anyone except Wobbles, and shipping Wobbles with anyone at all... kinda makes me uncomfortable. =]
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This one kind of had to happen. by
on 2014-04-17 11:00:00 UTC
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Fire in the TARDIS
It was actually quite difficult, for two reasons. One is that I find it hard to imagine Morgan actually likes the Notary. She respects her, after 'Gallifrey Bickers' - but I don't think she gets on with her. Of course, that had to be discarded for this, so it's a good thing it's never been said outright.
The other reason is the gimmick. It was an incredibly fun gimmick to work with - but made writing the dialogue quick tricky.
Fun, though, like I said. And the Notary has insecurities.
hS -
Gallifrey Bickers? (nm) by
on 2014-04-17 13:51:00 UTC
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That's right. by
on 2014-04-17 13:56:00 UTC
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The founding and, more especially, first meeting of the Continuity Council of Gallifrey-in-Exile. On which Morgan serves as Tigereye Castellan, and the Notary as Spinel Promotor.
hS -
Ta, had missed that. by
on 2014-04-17 13:57:00 UTC
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That reminds me, I need to get the Monitor crew together. After this week's newspaper stuff dies down maybe.
(I'd put forward characters for people to use in this shipping stuff but I've been so unproductive I dunno if any of 'em have been on screen enough for anybody to work with. :( ) -
I CANNOT EVEN by
on 2014-04-17 13:20:00 UTC
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I HAVE ENTIRELY LOST MY ABILITY TO EVEN
IF SOMEONE FINDS IT PLEASE RETURN IT TO RC 1875 POST-HASTE
Seriously though, that was hilarious. The gimmick made it even better, especially Morgan's lines. You also pretty much nailed the Notary's major character arc, so that's good too. Also, Morgan is just adorable in this. I want a small plush version. Hell, I may even have Wobbles make small plush versions of the Council to help the Notary practice. =] -
So, uh, I did actually write some stories in there, too. by
on 2014-04-16 15:18:00 UTC
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And another one in response to Lily... anyone got any comments on those? I know they're just PPC fanfic, not canon, but reviews are still appreciated.
hS -
Oops! Knew I forgot to do something. by
on 2014-04-17 06:58:00 UTC
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I like all three of these stories, although if you had to press me for specifics I'd probably say "Rejection" was my favorite. (I'll get into reasons why in just a moment.) The format of the stories -- the little vignettes jumping forward through time -- worked really well. It gives the reader a sense of how these relationships are progressing in a very efficient manner. One of my favorite shipfics, "Maslow", had a similar structure to it. We don't need to see every moment the characters are together and possibly say something flirtatious (something that many writers of bad shipfics and slashfics forget), just the most pertinent ones.
I can't say too much about "Near Misses" canon and character-wise because it's a been quite a while since I've read the Original Series. From what I recall, this seems very faithful and realistic to the characters of Jay and Acacia. I will say that I might have liked it a bit more if it had ended right after the line "I think I might do." That, to me, felt like it would have had more oomph.
"Rejection" was my favorite, as I mentioned. It is so rare to see what is almost an anti-shipping fic. Not in the sense of bashing the concept of shipping (that's very un-rare), but more that it doesn't end how most shipfics end. There is no happy ending. The confession of affection fails. I also like the gradual decline from silly to serious and sad.
"First Sight" felt the weakest of the three to me. It was still pretty darn good, but I wasn't as involved in the story as I was with other two. The wide swathe of characters that appeared made doing so a bit difficult, particularly regarding the agents I wasn't familiar with.
All in all, very nice work. -
'First Sight' was... difficult. by
on 2014-04-17 14:30:00 UTC
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Still fun, but difficult. The problem is that the only person Constance spends more than one story around is Dafydd - and they end up together anyway. So I had to write the story you've seen - and that involved giving poor Connie an obsession verging on neurotic. It worked okay when she was 13, but when she's twenty-four and still doing it... well. Yeah.
'Rejection', on the other hand, might well be canon. If I end up doing more with Selene, I'll have to think long and hard about how much I reference it.
hS -
That made my morning. by
on 2014-04-16 18:51:00 UTC
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I think you do have quite a good grip on Dis and the Agent, and the only real nitpick I have is that Christianne's got a mini-Agent.
Loved the flirty banter and... Mostly everything, really. -
And lo, she has vanished in a puff of edit. (nm) by
on 2014-04-17 08:56:00 UTC
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I'm not really interested in shipping agents. by
on 2014-04-16 06:35:00 UTC
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If anyone feels like taking a crack at Vania and Doc, go ahead. Considering I've set them up for an argument for their next interlude, it would probably be a bit of a challenge.
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Challenge accepted. ;) by
on 2014-04-16 16:38:00 UTC
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Mostly because, with so few stories, I could get to grips with them fairly quickly. Also, their shippy story suggested itself to me fairly quickly.
In The Field
A couple of notes:
-It occurred to me as I was writing this that HQ, and the PPC, probably have a bunch of terms for sexual orientation that don't - even couldn't - exist in the Real World. What do you call someone who is normally (say) male, but only experiences sexual attraction when in a disguise-generated female body? Or someone who likes to use disguises to alternate their physical sex on alternate days? Or... well, the two situations that show up in the story. So I invented slang terms (fake-Latigreek is beyond me). In that respect...
-'Mardy', in the real world, is a Northern English dialect word that roughly means 'grumpy'. I've co-opted it (and 'wrought') without regard for its original meaning.
hS -
Didn't Laburnum do the thing with the disguise use? by
on 2014-04-17 19:35:00 UTC
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I seem to recall she (the character, I mean - I don't know the author to be able to say) switched physical sex a lot with the disguise generator and even had a male counterpart (Hemlock) to sort out some gender issues she had or something.
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Oh man. by
on 2014-04-16 18:39:00 UTC
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You have Vania frighteningly down pat, especially in that first scene. I couldn't stop laughing at the
“So… you’re flirting with your own skill with the disguise generator?”
“That’s the one!”
I've almost got half a mind to make that a canon thing, now! That exchange is just so Vania.
And hey, we even got some new PPC slang out of this! It does make sense that they would have way more words for romantic interactions than boring old real world Earth. Like, what would they call the whole Teena/Irvine/butalso/Kit/Kisara thing? (A little sad that a bunch of crazy folks that fight fanfiction have a healthier outlook on alternate sexualities than the actual real world.)
Also, I apologize for making you deal with the whole underlined text box-talking thing. At least you didn't need to keep it up for a whole mission, though! *twitch*
And won't have to do so again for most of another interlude, yet. *twitch twitch*
(Also also, in the story you wrote for Lily, you misspelled Christianne's name Christianna at one point.) -
On slang. by
on 2014-04-17 11:44:00 UTC
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The thing about romantic/sexuality words is that they either have to proliferate until there's no tomorrow, or be eliminated entirely. We have words to distinguish which gender you're attracted to (specifically with reference to your own) - so why don't we have words for, say, having a strong preference regarding hair colour? If you really are only interested in redheads (say), why doesn't that qualify for a noun of its own?
Historically, the answer is 'because society cares to a fanatic extent about gender, but not about most other things'. But that's changing - slowly, but it is. In a certain theoretical future world, sex/gender will be as irrelevant an issue to society at large as hair colour. Which, ultimately, I suspect means that people will stop seeing those things as a big part of their identity. 'Gay Pride' would become as nonsensical as 'Hazel-Eyed Pride' - because no-one would care either way, so why get agitated about it? That's the ultimate end of 'normalisation', and I'm really trying to think of a historical example that doesn't still have repercussions, but it's not proving easy. So maybe I'm being over-optimistic - humans ain't that good at letting go. But imagine we are.
In that theoretical future, will we abandon words like 'gay' entirely? Or will we start proliferating words for every other preference, too? The answer, I suspect, lies in how useful they are - is it easier to turn down a proposition by just saying 'no thanks, not interested', or by saying 'no thanks, I'm russosexual'? (That's as in 'russet', not as in 'I only sleep with people named Russ' - though that could be a thing too!). Um... probably the latter, because how can you argue with 'my biology/psychology says no'? So what it really comes down to is, is it enough of an advantage to bother with learning all the words?
Darn, two types of human laziness running into each other. Most epically halfhearted fight ever?
hS, rambling again -
Russosexual sounds like a sexual preference for Russians. (nm) by
on 2014-04-17 15:57:00 UTC
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We could go for 'rufosexual'. by
on 2014-04-17 16:28:00 UTC
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As in William Rufus.
Or, let's see... cinnaphiliac? Vulpisensual? Wow, all of these sound terrifying...
hS -
I think most would just say "I prefer redheads." (nm) by
on 2014-04-17 16:29:00 UTC
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Possibly. by
on 2014-04-17 16:40:00 UTC
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But does that extend to people who are heterosexual saying 'I prefer women/men'? Assuming, of course, that our cinnaphile does genuinely only like redheads, otherwise it's not a fair analogy.
(Also, why is it that we have words for 'a blond(e)', 'a brunette' [is there a separate masculine for that?], and 'a redhead' - but not 'a (wo)man with black hair'?)
hS, (nesting [bra{cke}ts]) -
Belated response! by
on 2014-04-17 19:23:00 UTC
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Actually... yeah, pretty much exactly. Most people are going to say "I'm gay" or "I don't like guys" or "I'm straight" or whatever, not "I am a homo/heterosexual" unless it's like, a census form or something.
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"Brunet" is the masculine form. by
on 2014-04-17 18:36:00 UTC
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It's not used much, so it looks a bit odd to my eye, but I have actually seen it used in older writing.
I dunno about the black hair thing, but what word root could you use for a black-haired person that doesn't have unwanted negative connotations with regards to black-skinned people? That's my worry.
~Neshomeh -
'Mávros'. by
on 2014-04-17 18:48:00 UTC
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According to my five minutes of research, that's the Greek word for 'black'. In English, at least, it doesn't have connotations that I'm aware of. A mavrite? A mavronne? Or even just mavrette?
hS -
Re: 'Mávros'. by
on 2014-04-17 19:23:00 UTC
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The last one makes me think of Mavrick too much. I think I like mavronne.
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Re: Challenge accepted. ;) by
on 2014-04-16 16:52:00 UTC
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I like those terms. There really would have to be a lot of new terms to deal with the possible situations in HQ.
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Hmm. by
on 2014-04-16 02:25:00 UTC
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I have some ideas that could work for this. I should have a few stories for viewing shortly-ish. That said though, I will note that SPOILERS Xericka/Gremlin will eventually become canon, as suggested by the final story in "Five Stages." I just haven't written through the process yet./SPOILERS So don't get your hopes up for that just yet.
I'd be all right with people writing non-canon yet still "canon-friendly" stories about my agents, be those stories with each other or different agents. I'm honestly curious to see other people's takes on them. :) -
Huh. by
on 2014-04-15 22:47:00 UTC
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The only ones I could do this to would be Agents Mal and Orion, since Ian and Lee are emphatically together, and Grace and Alex are as well.
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This is a cool idea by
on 2014-04-15 20:47:00 UTC
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Cali isn't eligible, because he and Cadmar are actively dating.
Kelok and Unger could be interesting, so long as it was only a romantic, not sexual relationship. Kelok is emphatically asexual, but he does like (even crave) some elements of snuggling. Though he doesn't like to admit it.
Caddy-shack says that a Mark and Agent Miah pairing would be okay with him. They have scenes together, mostly in the Interludes we wrote. Just keep in mind that Mark cannot make skin-to-skin contact. -
An interesting idea by
on 2014-04-15 17:04:00 UTC
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All of my agents (with the exception of Kur'nak, who has a child's mental development for much of his existence) are open for shipping, if anyone can make any of them work. For reference, here is a list of my characters:
Barid
Brightbeard (Has taken a vow of Celibacy, but that just means no sex. Still leaves plenty of room for other forms of shipping.)
Phobos
Durotar
Decima
Voltarmi (Likes blue men. Do with that what you will.)
Monath Clokka (Homestuck Yellow-blooded Troll. Has one, barely explored, appearance.)
Tuff (Discworld Troll. Has one, barely explored, appearance.)
Oopart (Catastrophe Theory future)
I don't know if anyone thinks any of these guys are legitimately shippable, but I'd be interested to find out.
-Phobos -
Well, not really. by
on 2014-04-15 17:43:00 UTC
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Oopart, for example, has appeared... once. So this style of shipping story certainly wouldn't work. As you say, Tuff and Monath fit the same category.
So, which of your agents have multiple appearances together (and aren't actually together)?
hS -
Mine don't quite work for this, either. by
on 2014-04-15 23:21:00 UTC
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I don't think I've ever explicitly stated that Nume and Ilraen aren't in a relationship with each other, but c'mon, do I have to? {X D Anyway, Ilraen is sorta-kinda-maybe-a-little involved with Herr's Cinderella. If either of them ever twigs onto it.
I don't think any of my other characters show up in quite enough stories with anyone else. Otherwise, Jenni could be legitimately shipped with just about anyone up to the point where she starts dating Suicide. Derik hasn't been in one partnership long enough for him to be eligible, and *spoilers*my plan is for Derik/Gall to become canon eventually anyway. */spoilers*
I'm up for people shipping my characters with other characters, though, if you think you can pull it off. It would almost certainly be non-canon in most cases (though again, Jenni is very shippable; other FicPsych nurses are available, too), but it would be entertaining. *g*
~Neshomeh -
Oh, I don't know. by
on 2014-04-17 14:18:00 UTC
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Just reading over Ilraen's Journal, I can see him developing a crush on Nume. Which means there's only four or five later stories for me to read in order to write it... but the story I have planned means (unlike Doc and Vania) I'll have to read them in their entirety. Which may take a while... we'll see.
hS -
You can? by
on 2014-04-17 16:28:00 UTC
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*squints sideways at story* Well... I guess if you assume that Ilraen is having a whole lot of feelings he isn't writing down... which is probably true (regardless of what those feelings actually are). Okay, I'll buy it. This should be interesting. *g*
I have been very much enjoying your stories, BTW. I'm a bit short on coherent things to say about them, but I particularly liked "Rejection" (not your usual shipping fic!) and "First Sight." I agree with what you said up-thread—it's a little awkward for a 24-year-old to still be obsessing about love at first sight, especially with as staid as Constance usually seems in other stories—but I think it works all right. It seems to become less urgent as she gets older, just a fading dream that she's still hanging onto simply because it's her dream, even though she's realizing it may not be very likely. It was nice to see unabashed bisexual flirting, too.
I also enjoyed the Dis/Agent one. That shop... exists in Headquarters now. {X D (Unless you meant for it to be Outside?)
~Neshomeh -
Weeell. by
on 2014-04-17 16:45:00 UTC
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Not during 'Journal', to be sure, since he's still feeling his way towards 'interaction with other people'. But his voice in that story would work very well in a later 'journal' confessing his attraction. That's what I was going for. And that lets me get away with not writing Nume, which I'm not sure I could do.
Constance? 'Staid'? Pfft. Actually, this one is my fault; I write her a lot more composed than Kaitlyn does. In both 'Evelyn' and 'Aura' she's a hyperactive maniac. Still, I'm glad the 'fading dream' aspect of it came across - I tried to moderate it as time went by, but wasn't sure how well I'd succeeded.
Milverton's is in the city in New Cal; it may have a branch in HQ proper, I suppose. And I think someone with agents in an actual relationship (hint, hint) needs to send them on an excruciatingly embarrassing shopping trip. ;D
hS -
Are any of these new locations/slang (like mardy) canon? by
on 2014-04-18 21:45:00 UTC
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Checking because they're interesting additions but at the same time these stories are supposed to not be canon things. Or something. Sorry if this is a dumb question, brain is being eaten by work I should be doing.
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Nevermind. That was painfully dumb. (nm) by
on 2014-04-18 21:52:00 UTC
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But Nume/Jenni kismesissitude? by
on 2014-04-16 08:02:00 UTC
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Because that would be quite entertaining to write.
Angry makeouts. Mm. -
Nah, they're ashen if anything. by
on 2014-04-16 15:22:00 UTC
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There's no true hatred involved, just a slow-burning "unstoppable force meets immovable object" sort of rivalry. And woe to whoever gets stuck in the middle as their auspistice... which I guess would tend to be Ilraen. Poor boy. ^_^
Though, thinking about it more, they probably flip between that and moirallegiance, depending on everyone's temper that day. It would be moirallegiance if Nume weren't such a cantankerous git, but since the closest he can get to watching out for someone is to tell them off for being stupid and Jenni's not above pushing his buttons for fun... there ya go.
~Neshomeh, who ought to go post in that Homestuck thread, too. -
*Pokes* by
on 2014-04-16 08:25:00 UTC
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...so I assume you're familiar with Homestuck?
get in the 4/13 thread below; I wanna know your classpect -
Yeah...that's the problem. by
on 2014-04-15 17:59:00 UTC
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I never settle on one group long enough for this form of shipping to work. Nesh keeps telling me I should write more for the agents I already have, but the ideas keep going in a totally different direction (toward Oopart and Monath, at the moment).
I suppose a shipping model where the ships are made from whole cloth would work better for my group.
=Phobos -
DID SOMEONE SAY SHIPPING. by
on 2014-04-15 14:44:00 UTC
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Ooh, ooh, I know! Morgan/Agent. Because I give permission for basically all of my agents to be used in endeavours such as these, and the Agent did at one point like Morgan (because she looked like Romana).
As for my own, of course Agent/Disentangler would be feasible since they have their crazy suicide pact thing and they've know each other for so long, but they aren't in a relationship (as far as I know anyway).
And for shipping, I feel like it's fun to have Agents speculate on other Agents' relationships in-universe, and in the Badfic Game to write shipping goodfic because I would honestly love to see other people take on my own characters. I'm amused at the badfics, but goodfics? They might even influence how I write them if they're feasible enough. -
That was pretty fun to write. by
on 2014-04-16 12:06:00 UTC
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Much like J&A, the Thes have enough friendshippy moments to make actual shipping feasible. Though it does help that you had them actually admit to sleeping together.
Always Together, in which much use is made of Time Lord telepathy.
hS -
Can I just say... by
on 2014-04-16 18:35:00 UTC
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How much I love Agentangler's dynamic as a ship? It's just fun.
That's my portmanteau and I'm sticking to it. =] -
Hmm. Flipside question. by
on 2014-04-15 15:03:00 UTC
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Morgan/Agent might be difficult - there's the Continuity Council, of course, and I think they met a couple of times during the Blackout? But it would still make for a very truncated story.
Agent/Dis, however, would totally work. They're close enough to have real moments you can go 'hey, what if they--?' about - just like J&A - and there's enough 'footage' (particularly if you include Tawaki's) to make it feasible. I may have to take a look at them.
I have to admit, writing 'Near Misses' has driven me very close to being a Byrdtree shipper. ;) And I'm fairly close to being convinced by 'Rejection', too. Which I guess is the point of a non-AU goodfic - you write something which could actually happen, and if you do it well enough, you (and maybe your readers) start believing maybe it did.
hS -
I... have no idea where that subject line came from. by
on 2014-04-15 15:04:00 UTC
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I only typed the 'Hmm.' I think it autofilled the rest...
hS, marginally creeped out by that -
The Ghost in the Machine is breaching the fourth wall! (nm) by
on 2014-04-15 17:42:00 UTC
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Re: other people's agents, it should be opt-in. by
on 2014-04-15 11:55:00 UTC
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That is, only people who've explicitly said here it's okay - maybe that's stating the obvious, I dunno, but I don't really feel comfortable with the idea otherwise. As for the challenge... well, I need to start writing people again for anyone to apply. :P