Conclusions (Phobos? Herr Wozzeck? Comments?)

Subject: Conclusions (Phobos? Herr Wozzeck? Comments?)
Author: Huinesoron
Posted on: 2013-11-27 11:15:00 UTC

The mad comment-fest makes it clear that there are definitely a whole heap of things to comment on. However, yes, a lot of them are to do with the plagiarism - either that something /is/ plagiarised, or that it's been badly done so.

That said, there are a bunch of things that aren't (directly) related to the plagiarism - like the fact that they're unable to keep track of whether they're in a tent, or the incredibly creepy serial-Sue-killer (thanks, Dawn) vibes they keep giving off.

I think there's enough there to make a mission. Specifically, I think a mission in which the agents blame the characters for things that are more accurately the authors' fault. Yes, that's sort of what the PPC does anyway (since Mary-Sues aren't prone to describing themselves out loud, for instance), but I suggest something a bit more so:

Treat Jason, Emma, and Harriet as the psychopaths they are. We've said a few times in the comments that they seem to basically be doing this for kicks - so take that premise. Entirely for their own sick entertainment, these three have turned themselves into parodies of PPC and ACMESES agents, written themselves a Suefic (partially based on 'Rambling Band', because they're a highly unoriginal lot), and gone into it. They're reusing jokes and actions from RB because they enjoyed reading the report (how they got it from HQ's network, I don't know) - so it's basically the same as agents repeating lines from Monty Python. Except that this lot are twisted sadists while doing so.

If JEH were obviously self-inserts, I'd be uncomfortable with this suggestion. But they're not. They're mashup plagiarism. So I don't see any problem with seconding someone to the Department of Plagiarism and sending them to deal with JEH as plagiarists. The way to avoid accidentally flaming Aelin and Addie is... not to acknowledge they exist.

At least, that's what I think. But I'd like to hear comments from the people who (quite rightly) pointed out that it might be a bad idea.

hS

PS: Note that I'm not actually claiming the right to do this mission. I might do so, but I'm pretty sure other people (Dawn?) mentioned it first, so priority goes to them. ~hS

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Um, are we being ripped off? I think we're being ripped off. by Neshomeh on 2013-11-16 16:18:00 UTC Reply

http://fanfictioncanonassistry.wikia.com/wiki/FCAWiki

A fair bit of this sounds an awful lot like us. The very structure of the wiki's navbar looks an awful lot like ours. There's also the fact that I got there by Googling "crystace" and noticed that the top two hits were PPC Wiki and this, with the text being darn near identical.

Oh, and they have consoles, apparently. These sound an awful, awful lot like PPC consoles to me. Compare especially the "Other Information" and "Miscellaneous" sections.

Compare also <a href="http://fanfictioncanonassistry.wikia.com/wiki/SomebodyElse%27sProblemfield">their SEP field page and our SEP field page.

Compare also their FAQ: For Rookies and our FAQ: For Newbies. The section order may be different, but a lot of that looks very familiar.

I'm pretty sure I recognize the main admin's name, too: AelinTheAmazing.

I'm... somewhat inclined to be using strong language at this point, so I'll stop. Just... what is this? {=
~Neshomeh

On another (and somewhat exasperated) note: by DawnFire on 2013-11-25 01:55:00 UTC Reply

Is it possible for someone to do a mission or sporking of that 'Mission #1'? I was doing fine, except for the plagiarism, until they identified Galadriel as both the Lady of the Golden Wood--which is quite accurate--and as Queen of Lothlórien, which very much is not. Mind you, this is their Character Analysis Device's identification, not someone mistakenly saying it. So. Possible?

I suppose it doesn't actually fall under PPC jurisdiction for missions, but it's pretty galling to find not only huge amounts of plagiarism partially masked by adaptation, but also inaccurate details purporting to be Tolkien's canon. I just...I thought perhaps I should bring up that it's not just plagiarism, it's also inaccuracy; and while that's not something that Wikia needs to worry about, it's something that I, for one, find extremely annoying. Kind of the icing on the cake, really.

(Also, um, that's not just Tolkien and the Original Series being mangled/ripped off. It's also the Suethor's story--dialogue and details have been changed. For example, Galadriel? She's supposed to be Arwen. Galadriel didn't appear in Rambling Band, at least not that I remember. Furthermore, this is misrepresenting the Suefic as worse than it actually is, in this case by adding the charge of Galadriel being in Rivendell without explanation. At least Arwen was in the right place, if not in character or in her rightful position.)

Back to reading sources for my essay now. I just...that needed to be shared. It really did.

Thanks for listening.

~DF

Yeah. by Autumn_68 on 2013-11-25 04:19:00 UTC Reply

And I didn't remember the original Suefic being so overblown on its own Sue-ness too. I never thought I'll say this, but AelinTheAmazing made the Suefic so Sue-ish that the Suefic became an unrealistic one.

I would love to see a sporking of "Mission #1", 'cause it'll be all a little Inception-y. ;)

~Autumn

Ooh, Inception-y. I like it. by DawnFire on 2013-11-25 04:34:00 UTC Reply

I mean, I'm still fairly sure it's not actually PPC jurisdiction (except possibly during the Badfic Game), but...it hurts. A lot. Maybe it could just be MSTed, preferably using PPC agents? We could even have it as a group thing.

I don't even know. I just...this needs some form of response. We do have a Department of Plagiarism, although I don't know if it has any recorded missions or what its methods consist of (and, er, this is plagiarism of a Suefic and a PPC mission report, among other things, which is why I have no idea whether this is really even within our jurisdiction). It's difficult to know if PPC agents could even take this on, unless they were the self-aware, fourth-wall-breaking sort (of which there are at least several, possibly more than I realize). However, in the context of an MST...I do think it could work. It honestly seems (to me, at least) to be a rather appropriate response: we are the PPC, and we critique things like this. Admittedly, we don't normally deal with such huge cases of plagiarism (although smaller ones have definitely cropped up before), but I think an analysis/critique of this, PPC-style (albeit probably in MST format, which does have a history here as well), might actually be rather appropriate.

Like I've been saying--just a thought. But it might be good to point out exactly what is wrong with doing this, in the style that (or a similar one to) the PPC normally employs.

(Can you tell I've been reading academic articles for the past who-knows-how-many hours? No? Didn't think so :))

~DF

MST sounds right to me. by Sergio Turbo on 2013-11-25 10:32:00 UTC Reply

A mission might appear as too revengeish for the community we actually are. A light-toned MST should work better.

I think you just summed up my reasoning in two sentences. :) by DawnFire on 2013-11-25 12:11:00 UTC Reply

Congratulations :D

But yeah. I mean, this really needs some sort of response, especially considering that we, well, critique bad writing and so on (it's early, shush), but an actual mission does seem rather...mean? Rude? Not sure. Probably more violent of a response than necessary. But perhaps there could be some sort of group MSTing of it.

...remind me to stop repeating myself, please, this is getting ridiculous.

~DF

Personally, I don't think it's worth it. by Phobos on 2013-11-25 13:30:00 UTC Reply

My reasoning is this: You think a mission would be too harsh; I think an MST would be more-so.

I worry that both of those responses are going to venture, fairly quickly, into personal attack and unpleasantness. It would be easy to justify in a mission ("They were really angry at what they saw!") and characters in an MST, being further removed from the action of the story, are closer to the author of the story.

It doesn't help that what makes this story bad is that someone took it. How do you deal with that reality in your MST without dealing with the author?

No, I just don't think would turn out well at all.

-Phobos

I suppose that's another issue, yes. by DawnFire on 2013-11-26 02:26:00 UTC Reply

I had hoped it would be possible to rein in harsh responses--keep it light, while also analyzing and explaining, as calmly as possible, why the choices made were bad ones--but you're right in saying it would be difficult to do. I think I'm being influenced somewhat by the MSTs I've been reading on das_sporking, although those don't actually tend to stay that calm...you may have a point about the MST, actually.

However, we do seem to have a Department of Plagiarism, albeit one that is completely without missions. I'm guessing this is an older department, but I can't be sure. On the other hand, even taking this into account, you're right about the difficulty in avoiding dealing with the author...which is why I suggested an MST. I suppose I failed to consider that a PPC-connected MST would also be unable to address the author, even politely.

On the other hand, I think there does need to be some sort of polite, mature response to this. (Perhaps we could send Vulcans to deal with it?) My suggestion would be to possibly write something, with frequent breaks to cool down, and then have a large number of people beta it (probably along the way as well) to keep it from becoming, as you said, full of personal attack and unpleasantness. Because there definitely needs to be some sort of response, or at least that's the way it seems to me; but it definitely needs to be mature, as polite as possible, and not an attack.

If people could keep weighing in, that would be great. This just really seems to me to be something we should at least discuss.

~DF

I'm a'pondering. by Huinesoron on 2013-11-26 09:35:00 UTC Reply

Taking into account the various things that've been said, is the story bad enough in its own right for the PPC (specifically the Department of Plagiarism) to take it on?

I'm thinking there are two kinds of charges available:

-First, plagiarism charges. That includes the general 'this is all plagiarised' - which need only be mentioned once - but also specific instances where it's plagiarised and made worse. Itemising why 'I prefer the original' is appropriate, I think, and can be done without commenting on the plagiarist directly.

-Secondly, general bad and unrealistic writing. You've noted a few issues, and I'm sure there are more. But are there enough?

Let's find out! Here's a copy of the story in question; comments should be enabled for everyone, though the actual text shouldn't be editable. I'm going to go through and comment up things that could be charges - come join in if you like, and we'll see if it's actually something that could take a mission.

Obviously, the same rules apply there as anywhere else in PPC-space - no flaming, or anything like it, plzkthnx.

hS

Pondering complete. by Huinesoron on 2013-11-26 11:00:00 UTC Reply

I have a near-solid wall of comments down the site of the thing, and that's just from an hour's looking. I've also discovered that they plagiarised TOS Mission 4, as well, in at least two places. Including this... really disturbing scene:

Jason considered that. “So, if we dropped her in a lake and she drowned, she’d still look nice on my wall?”

“Yeah, I guess,” Harriet replied, then realized something. “Hey, wait. Who says you get to put her on your wall?”

Jason sighed, knowing that once Harriet got her teeth into something she was unlikely to let it go. “You can have her head, I’ll take the rest of her. Deal?”

“Her head and a smoothie.”

You may recognise this as a condensed version of J&A's argument with Lux about the blue unicorn she had just skinned. Lux got the head and an invisible scrunchie.

Key difference? That was an animal. This is a humanoid woman. All issues of plagiarism aside? These characters are sick.

hS

True. by DawnFire on 2013-11-26 17:32:00 UTC Reply

You know what else? Harriet is the name of one of ACMSES' founding characters. I know this from reading half of one of their stories, which I did because this Booklight thing sounded interesting. I get the feeling there's a lot of ACMSES plagiarism that we're not necessarily catching.

Also, I'm fairly sure the Sue's name gained about ten extra names in between her first introduction and the charging towards the end. Just saying.

~DF

Conclusions (Phobos? Herr Wozzeck? Comments?) by Huinesoron on 2013-11-27 11:15:00 UTC Reply

The mad comment-fest makes it clear that there are definitely a whole heap of things to comment on. However, yes, a lot of them are to do with the plagiarism - either that something /is/ plagiarised, or that it's been badly done so.

That said, there are a bunch of things that aren't (directly) related to the plagiarism - like the fact that they're unable to keep track of whether they're in a tent, or the incredibly creepy serial-Sue-killer (thanks, Dawn) vibes they keep giving off.

I think there's enough there to make a mission. Specifically, I think a mission in which the agents blame the characters for things that are more accurately the authors' fault. Yes, that's sort of what the PPC does anyway (since Mary-Sues aren't prone to describing themselves out loud, for instance), but I suggest something a bit more so:

Treat Jason, Emma, and Harriet as the psychopaths they are. We've said a few times in the comments that they seem to basically be doing this for kicks - so take that premise. Entirely for their own sick entertainment, these three have turned themselves into parodies of PPC and ACMESES agents, written themselves a Suefic (partially based on 'Rambling Band', because they're a highly unoriginal lot), and gone into it. They're reusing jokes and actions from RB because they enjoyed reading the report (how they got it from HQ's network, I don't know) - so it's basically the same as agents repeating lines from Monty Python. Except that this lot are twisted sadists while doing so.

If JEH were obviously self-inserts, I'd be uncomfortable with this suggestion. But they're not. They're mashup plagiarism. So I don't see any problem with seconding someone to the Department of Plagiarism and sending them to deal with JEH as plagiarists. The way to avoid accidentally flaming Aelin and Addie is... not to acknowledge they exist.

At least, that's what I think. But I'd like to hear comments from the people who (quite rightly) pointed out that it might be a bad idea.

hS

PS: Note that I'm not actually claiming the right to do this mission. I might do so, but I'm pretty sure other people (Dawn?) mentioned it first, so priority goes to them. ~hS

Well darn. by Ekyl on 2013-12-24 00:06:00 UTC Reply

Somehow in my "how would we tackle it" section I managed to completely miss that you'd already suggested how to treat the PPS in-universe. Oops!

...Actually, PPCers dealing with what are basically psychotic copycats outright making up Sues for them to slaughter would make an interesting story.
I understand this is a month late and off the front page... by Ekyl on 2013-12-23 22:57:00 UTC Reply

...but while I see the reasons people would want to take it on, and like I said a bit downthread I'd be willing to help out, I still don't think we should make a mission of this, for a few reasons.

First off, this was a poor job done by some (no offence to our younger members) dumb kids who abandoned the idea a couple months after starting it up anyway. Not to mention Neshomeh got the wikis taken down, so not only do we no longer have a reference for their "canon" but they effectively don't exist. Us making a big mission out of their, well, mission (more on that later) gives the plagiarised, low-effort work more attention and legitimacy than it deserves, and frankly it would also come off as needlessly retaliatory, like yelling at somebody after they've already left the room. Why treat it as a canonical thing when we can just shunt it out of existence like the Badfic Land stuff? Plus, we've already dissected the one PPS story in that google document, I'm not sure how much more a mission would add from an out-of-continuity perspective.

Secondly, it opens a lot of meta weirdness that I think would make the story more trouble than it's worth. In-continuity, do we treat the PPS as a real organisation? A bunch of misguided "PPC fans"? Psychos who killed a fic then wrote a story about it plagiarising Jay and Acacia? Do we kill the agents tackling the fic? Destroy the entire PPS? Give them a very stern talking-to? Not to mention I don't think I've seen missions themselves being treated as a Word World before and I'm not sure how to approach that. Not to mention either it's in the same setting as the PPC or not - just how "real" is the PPS to be? I think it could get more convoluted than it's worth.

Again, sorry I'm mentioning this point so late, only just been catching up becauseI got busy with other stuff.
Sorry, sorry! by Herr Wozzeck on 2013-11-29 02:33:00 UTC Reply

Man, this semester has been crazy busy...

Yeah, there could be enough material for a mission in there. This interpretation of events does require subtext to make sense, but it's subtext that's present in the fic itself that could work within the PPC verse. So it is missionable.

However, my comments were aimed more at the MST treatment of the story that Sergio suggested. As an MST, I don't feel there's enough material to work with. As a PPC mission, I definitely see your point about the material, but as an MST there just isn't enough. So...

Apologies are not required. ;) by Huinesoron on 2013-11-29 08:37:00 UTC Reply

I wasn't expecting either of you to have already commented - I was just putting your names up to be sure you knew that I was asking for your thoughts.

hS

Apologies. Been busy with work and Thanksgiving prep.. by Phobos on 2013-11-27 13:33:00 UTC Reply

Anyway, if people want to mission this, then I wouldn't stand in their way, even if I could. I think it was enough for me to plant the red flag and make people aware of the potential pitfalls ahead. It did lead to people taking an in-depth look at what a mission in this story could cover, after all.

That said, I am a always a fan of fleshing out departments that have been left on the sidelines. So, for me, it would be nice to see the DoP in a story.

To sum up: I still don't personally think it is worth it, but if other people think it is, then have at it.

-Phobos
A quick reply by DawnFire on 2013-11-27 12:44:00 UTC Reply

(First of all, it's kind of awesome that more and more people are nicknaming me 'Dawn'. But that's an aside.)

Second, I have to catch a bus soon (morning class), so this probably won't cover everything I want to say. In fact, it definitely won't.

That said, my two cents are that this could potentially be done as a group mission? I know I want to be involved, but I also know I'd never finish it on my own. Also, this is, and has been from the beginning, a community affair. There shouldn't be an overwhelmingly large number of agents involved, at least not in the actual mission part, but even aside from cameos and so on, many betas could work...

Basically: my vote is for a group mission (preferably with writing taking off more towards mid-December, post-exams, but perhaps that's just me.) And now I really need to go catch a bus. Ta!

~DF

I have reservations, but I'd be willing to help. (nm) by Ekyl on 2013-12-23 22:04:00 UTC Reply
Did someone say cameos? by Desdendelle on 2013-11-27 17:41:00 UTC Reply

Ever since I read this, I really took the idea of cameos to heart, since I kinda agree with what July wrote there. That's why I am offering my agents for cameos whenever I can. So Des and either Anebrin (if the mission is going to be set before February 2013 HST) or the Librarian (if it's going to be set any time after that) are available for cameos.

Well... by Herr Wozzeck on 2013-11-25 17:06:00 UTC Reply

...speaking as someone who's dealt with the trivialization of very serious subjects within fanfiction in my snarkings with the Library, I tend to cut the bullshit at points that demand that I get more serious. While it is true that those times generally coincide with the fic doing something that truly pisses me off, I imagine you could address that topic seriously by indicating that you're not making a joke at any point.

That said, let's face it: the fact that its biggest sin was plagiarism doesn't justify an MST for me. For me to be able to do an MST and/or mission, there has to be something wrong with it beyond just one really bad thing. Granted, there are a couple things they do, but for me they're not big enough to take away from the main complaint of plagiarism. And hilariously enough, I can tell you why with something that's being done at the Library right now.

See, another contributor at the Library is currently snarking a Mass Effect fic which is actually an almost complete plagiarism of another Mass Effect fic that I snarked at the Library earlier. So really, a lot of my complaints on the fic that was plagiarized are complaints he's brought up in the snarking of the plagiarism (a fact that he's lampshaded a couple times, actually). So what justifies snarking that fic as well as the one I already snarked? Well, the plagiarizer did several things that justified it, but chief among them are two things:

1) the plagiarizer added enough casual sexism to make Rush Limbaugh seem feminist.

2) the plagiarizer also injected a few plot elements that were extremely stupid that were not airlifted in from the fic he plagiarized.

And both of those two complaints are bigger than the plagiarism complaint itself, to the point that the sexism has actually gotten us riled up more than the plagiarism itself.

So I don't know. It doesn't really seem like it's MSTable, though for different reasons than Phobos suggested...

I totally agree with your reasoning. by Phobos on 2013-11-25 17:36:00 UTC Reply

Also, can I just say that I read "MSTable" as "MS Table". I am imagining a coffee table that has a Windows tablet as its surface. Not the worst idea, but still not a very good one.

-Phobos

I see. by Sergio Turbo on 2013-11-25 19:08:00 UTC Reply

I now understand the points about an MST being a bad idea - those effectively make up the lack of actual fixing with a lot of snark.

A calm, no-characters-in-it commentary/compare-and-contrast would actually be the only way to do something like that, I guess, but as Wikia closed down both wikis, there is no reason to do anything else.

Oh, wait, what? by DawnFire on 2013-11-26 02:28:00 UTC Reply

It's already been resolved?

That was fast.

Hm. Well, I did just post that long thing I wrote earlier...I don't know. Take it as you like. Funnily enough, it was the Tolkien mistake that was kind of the tipping point for me, although the rest was pretty bad as well...

~DF

Okay, so here's what I've got for Wikia by Neshomeh on 2013-11-24 01:52:00 UTC Reply

Some background information: The Protectors of the Plot Continuum was originally a series of stories by Jay and Acacia written mostly in 2002. A community sprang up around the series, and others began to write spin-offs of the series with Jay and Acacia's permission. Over a decade later, we're still going strong, with our main community hub being the PPC Posting Board (founded in 2003). Our wiki was founded in 2007 to give us a central point to collect information about our community and its works (we'd previously been relying on a series of LiveJournal entries, private webpages, and people's bookmarks).

The PPC has always been on friendly terms with Camilla Sandman, the author of "The Official Fanfiction University of Middle-earth," which has similarly grown a fanbase and many, many spinoffs, including "The Hogwarts Fanfiction Academy" by Meir Brin. Both Meir Brin and Camilla Sandman participated in the PPC community in the past, and several concepts that have since become iconic to the PPC originally come from OFUM or HFA with the full blessings of their creators.

The Anti-Cliché and Mary-Sue Elimination Society is a similar but thoroughly distinct group. We're not affiliated, though we've been in communication with their members in the past. I've included links to their wiki where I can for the sake of being thorough.

I've organized this list of copied pages by the name on the FCA and/or PPS wiki. Links to the plagiarized page(s) are first, then links to the original articles or other sources. I've included notes where I feel clarification may be helpful.

\* = original article

View the list in PasteBin, since it was too long to include here. The paste will expire in one week.

That should be thorough enough for anyone, but let me know if I've missed anything big.

~Neshomeh

E-mail away. (nm) by Neshomeh on 2013-11-25 00:53:00 UTC Reply

And, just like that, our troubles are over! by Neshomeh on 2013-11-25 17:40:00 UTC Reply

Here's what my Wikia contact said:
Thanks for the thorough research! I know that wasn't an easy process.

Given the inactivity of the wikis, the widespread nature of the attribution issues, and the clarity of the explanation you offered the Admins, I have gone ahead and closed both wikis.

So, yeah! I'm kinda blown away. I expected it to take longer, or be more difficult, I guess. But hey, that's the solution I wanted, so I say break out the party gear. {= )

And, incidentally, let's let this be a lesson to us to always properly attribute anything we put on our own wiki. Citing sources is important for lots of reasons! When it's other people's stuff, it's important to give credit, and when it's our own stuff, it's important so that other people know where the information came from and that it wasn't just made up on the fly. Yay attribution!

~Neshomeh

Hurray! by son_of_heaven176 on 2013-11-26 22:00:00 UTC Reply

Three cheers for Neshomeh!
Three cheers for Ekyl!

Each of you can have an Aegislash in recognition of your defense of the hard work of the PPC. It is a bit sad that it had to get to this; Aelin could have been a good member of the PPC. But things had to be done...

Enough of the serious attitude! Let's party!
*sails into the scene with a large Bleepolate cake* by Autumn_68 on 2013-11-26 13:21:00 UTC Reply

Congrats! I can now sleep in peace knowing that this issue of writing the email is now over, and done with.

~Autumn
Congrats and thank you! by doctorlit on 2013-11-26 05:17:00 UTC Reply

A big thank you to Nesh and Ekyl and anyone else who worked on this!
Yay! by Herr Wozzeck on 2013-11-26 03:24:00 UTC Reply

I don't know about you guys, but I think this calls for some Mahler!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qj5D2hXwMG4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQFOgvF74k4
Handing out party hats (nm) by Antigone68104 on 2013-11-25 17:50:00 UTC Reply

*throws confetti* *looks round for fellow Supernatural fans* by DawnFire on 2013-11-26 02:46:00 UTC Reply

That was very, very quick. Wow.

All to the good, I say :)

~DF

*Supernatural-fan shows up* by EileenAlphabet on 2013-11-26 19:12:00 UTC Reply

Hurray! I believe this calls for the angel Kalastiel! http://a-moosed.deviantart.com/art/Kalastiel-The-Angel-of-Party-155133701

Seems so! *steals a balloon* Party time! (nm) by DawnFire on 2013-11-26 19:20:00 UTC Reply

Seems extremely thorough to me. (nm) by DawnFire on 2013-11-24 22:59:00 UTC Reply

*pokes DawnFire* by Sergio Turbo on 2013-11-25 10:28:00 UTC Reply

I know that I told you that Blank Sprite could wait December... but it wasn't an invitation to actually do that, you know?

People then starts plagiarizing it before it even gets written!

I'll see what I can do about getting to it this week. by DawnFire on 2013-11-25 12:07:00 UTC Reply

The problem is that, as a university student, I've had to actually do some work. I should be able to steal an hour or so this week, though--most things are for next week. (First exams as a uni student. Hurrah.)

~DF

God luck with that. (nm) by Sergio Turbo on 2013-11-25 18:59:00 UTC Reply

Ack, misspelling. Good, not god. by Sergio Turbo on 2013-11-25 19:03:00 UTC Reply

Though, a god luck would be a luck in godmode, and so an indefeatable luck. I wish you that.

Sounds pretty useful, thanks! :) (nm) by DawnFire on 2013-11-26 02:29:00 UTC Reply

That looks very comprehensive to me by the Irish Samurai on 2013-11-24 10:25:00 UTC Reply

Nice spot on the 'Redwall Defence Guide' by the way - while the pages/info copied from our wiki was pretty straightforward to catch, I don't think I'd have picked up on that one.
It looks good. by Sergio Turbo on 2013-11-24 09:49:00 UTC Reply

A lot of stuff, with short but exaustive explanations. Well done, it should be more than enough to prove our case.

Even Phoenix Wright can't go OBJECTION! on it.
Do the ACMSES folks know they've been plagiarized too? by doctorlit on 2013-11-24 02:35:00 UTC Reply

If not, we ought to let them know.

I believe one of our newbies let them know. (nm) by Phobos on 2013-11-24 02:45:00 UTC Reply

Help, my brain is going to explode. by Neshomeh on 2013-11-22 01:48:00 UTC Reply

Please take a look through this page: http://sect.wikia.com/wiki/Alternate_Universe

I'm boggled, just boggled. Can you guys help me sort out what bits were taken from where? I mean, I could probably figure it out, but my brain hurts.

H E L P M E

~Neshomeh, starting a list now, because this is gonna take a while.

Thanks for the help, guys! by Neshomeh on 2013-11-23 15:21:00 UTC Reply

Sad as it is to say, I knew that stuff had to come from somewhere. Sigh.

~Neshomeh
What?!?!?!? by Autumn_68 on 2013-11-23 00:05:00 UTC Reply

They...I...did...what...?

I'm so mad right now, it's messed with my punctuation.

They copy our concepts, our anyone-can-write-characters, our events. But this...this is our PPC history. The Reorganisation, the Blackout Incident, Shipverse, the Mirror Multiverse, the 2008 Mary Sue Invasion...the PPC members worked hard (while having fun at the same time, but still...) on these projects, on lots of lots of other things too, while they, they just copy and pasted a bunch of the PPC writers' efforts then replace the names. And then there was copying TOS. This is outrageous.

Plagiarism. I've never hate it so much.

~Autumn
... Potato Protection Society? by Sergio Turbo on 2013-11-22 09:32:00 UTC Reply

... it oddly reminds me of a joke I'm using in the first chapter of Blank Sprite. (Namely, giant sentient pottoes trying to keep Agents from doing their job)

And, as you may realize, it isn't published yet. What the...

The long arm of plagiarism knows no bounds. by SeaTurtle on 2013-11-22 18:07:00 UTC Reply

It can stare into the unpublished void and steal ideas before they're even formed.

Moral of the story: you should live right next to any patenting office, just in case.

The Fandom Protection Fleet... by the Irish Samurai on 2013-11-22 06:53:00 UTC Reply

...comes from something hS posted on this board, during a 'what if our agents came from different backgrounds game'.

The original post can be found here: http://disc.yourwebapps.com/discussion.cgi?id=199610;article=240641;search_term=fandom+protection+fleet

The text used on the PPS site seems to be a direct rip of this, with some of the names changed.

And way to be subtle about it. by Sergio Turbo on 2013-11-22 09:27:00 UTC Reply

One of the characters is pretty much an hybrid of Madoka and Homura from PMMM (and even stated directly in the text), while the other smells a lot of Naruto (with a dash of Card Captor Sakura).

Then again, I'm the one who's using a badfic clone of Sakura as an Agent, so I don't think I can call out on the choice of names.
On the fact that it is copied straight from Firemagic's AU, that I will do.

Uh, something strange going on on the Board... by Sergio Turbo on 2013-11-22 09:33:00 UTC Reply

I was answering to SeaTurtle about the Magical Girl one. Why is my post here?

Perhaps our Board is becoming glitchy? (nm) by Autumn_68 on 2013-11-23 00:09:00 UTC Reply

Hey, that's kind of cool. by Huinesoron on 2013-11-22 07:10:00 UTC Reply

I bet the person who wrote that is incredibly intelligent and probably ruggedly handsome to boot.

Seriously, I didn't even remember writing that, but I really like the concept. I might have to do more with it...

hS

Yup, by the Irish Samurai on 2013-11-22 08:34:00 UTC Reply

Well, the fact that it exists is cool, I'm guessing the fact that it was plagiarised is less cool... although if that was the reason you rediscovered the FPF then maybe every cloud really does have a silver lining.

I'm wondering if there's anything else that we can deduce about the writer - I'm sensing a certain 'devil may care' attitude from them. So, we've got someone who is: rugged, handsome, intelligent, devil may care, is into Star Wars, and uses the initials 'H S'…

Clearly, we're dealing with Han Solo :P

I too really like some of the PPC AU concepts we've got floating around. I definitely plan on doing some more with TCDA, and at least giving honourable mentions to the others.

The Magical Girl one... by SeaTurtle on 2013-11-22 06:33:00 UTC Reply

...is ripped off of firemagic's post in the PPC AU game back in May of last year. Click here for their plagiarized article.

They can't hide from the Intelligence master.

I'm now seriously considering featuring copypasta clones as an episode of (Un)Intelligence. This is beautiful and terrible at the same time.
I'm up for it. by Storme Hawk on 2013-11-22 04:19:00 UTC Reply

Well their Shipverse is a blatant rip-off of ours, right down to Luxury coming from it.

The Fanfiction Protection Society part looks familiar, I'm just now trying to work out where from exactly.

The Fanfiction Protection Society by Phobos on 2013-11-22 04:28:00 UTC Reply

You'll find that one is a combination of several concepts.

1) The Mirror Multiverse
2) The 2008 Mary Sue Invasion and the Mary Sue Factories
3) The Blackout
4) I may have missed some

All of that is wrapped up together in, what may be, their least blatant example of plagiarism to date.

-Phobos

Re:The Fanfiction Protection Society by Storme Hawk on 2013-11-22 04:35:00 UTC Reply

I think some bits may be based upon The Reorganisation as well.

I'd be happy to help! by Bryn on 2013-11-22 02:24:00 UTC Reply

Do you want just a list sent in, or a collaborative thing where one person takes one section, and wheedles through it, one at a time?

A list posted here would be fine. by Neshomeh on 2013-11-22 03:01:00 UTC Reply

I'm mostly concerned about the italicized sections, since at least one I know to be plagiarized from a source outside the wiki—the Transfictional Canonical Defence Authority bit is straight out of Pieguy's original story. I'm wondering if the rest are also lifted from things I don't know about.

Just, ugh. Why.

(Also, apparently they've made our 2008 Sue Invasion and 2013 Blackout into one thing? *all the confusions*)

Thanks!

~Neshomeh

Guys, can we calm down a bit? by Bryn on 2013-11-20 09:59:00 UTC Reply

Now, I know I'm hardly a board regular- my post career here is minimal to say the least. And these days, I look at the board and I see new people, and my lawn chair cane combo starts to look pretty good right now.

However, I'd like to remind y'all of a pretty basic thing that I think has been forgotten by some of our more excitable members. Aelin and company? They're just kids. At the time that these wikias were made, they were like, 13-14ish, and maybe now are 15 at the most.

Yes, Plagiarism is wrong. No quibbles about that, but namecalling? These are kids with a bad idea and had the ability to execute it, not Sauron and the gorram ring wraiths.

I can understand getting all upset and flail-y because this is our stuff being stolen, and our stuff being plastered without care for our efforts, BUT.

They are still people.

We are still people.

Stuff like this? This is stuff we get called out on, next time someone decides to paint our community with a less than kind brush. This is the kind of stuff that makes us look, as a community of writers and readers, pretty bad.

And you know what? Unless this kind of thread goes completely uncontested? They're totally right to go after us for this. I'm not saying be Happy or Super Duper Ally Ooper Cheerful that our stuff got ganked. I'm saying be civil.

Alright? While yes, article 27 of the PPC Constitution is important, Article 2 is as well. Righteous Anger =/= name calling that can lead to bullying.

Thank you for pointing this out. (nm) by Ekyl on 2013-11-20 21:56:00 UTC Reply
While I myself have been feeling rather outraged, by Ailavyn Siniyash on 2013-11-20 16:07:00 UTC Reply

I must agree with Bryn as well. I haven't contributed to this thread yet, as everyone has been saying exactly what I mean to hours before me and far more concisely, but I feel the need to second this. We are the PPC. We're nice. We welcome newbies and celebrate birthdays. We create complaint threads about badfic, and rec goodfic. We hold writing contests. We make things. But we always, always don't mock people, instead mocking their writing and giving constructive criticism. How is this any different? Yes, it's an outrage, but the issue can be resolved without bloodshed, virtual or not. Calm, civil discussion is a very productive alternative. As Bryn said, Aelin and the others are, after all, still people.

-Aila

(And sorry for the huge paragraph. I just had a lot to say.)

Still no response, so not much a discussion, but yes. (nm) by Ekyl on 2013-11-20 21:58:00 UTC Reply

You're absolutely correct. by Huinesoron on 2013-11-20 12:51:00 UTC Reply

And I feel bad for not saying it myself. Thank you.

(And while there is no strict order to the articles of the Constitution, I've always had the feeling the lower numbers tend to be more important)

hS

Some interesting timing data. by Huinesoron on 2013-11-19 09:21:00 UTC Reply

Earlier, Phobos noted that the FCA wiki hasn't been updated since May, or their blog since March. The PPS, as observed by the Irish Samurai, was last updated in September.

As you may remember, I've been collating information about the Board. AelinTheAmazing is in that data (of course): she posted for six months. Specifically, March-August of this year.

Which means that all the time she was hanging about, welcoming what seems to be every single newbie, and talking about how she might eventually ask for Permission, she was simultaneously ripping off the Wiki and Rambling Band.

I've just glanced over all her posts (yes, really), and can't find any mentions that she was doing anything of the sort - or even any vaguely-worded questions asking if it was okay. The only thing that comes close is the thread where she asked whether it was okay to adopt abandoned agents, and listed a few whose authors hadn't been around for a couple of years.

Did she spend time in the IRC while she was around here? If so, did she talk about it at all there?

hS

PS: AddiePenguin, the other name mentioned here, also posted to the Board; from what I can tell, she made her intro post and never said anything else.

She was definitely an IRCer. by VixenMage on 2013-11-20 10:00:00 UTC Reply

I don't remember anything specific about her, but the name definitely rings bells of some sort. I have no idea what sort, sorry.

Also, seconding Bryn on this. Please take a deep breath and remember that the people on the other sides of these screens - even the ones currently being jerks - still have feelings. Would we really be cool with saying all this, in such tones, if Aelin was still posting regularly?
As an IRC regular, I remember Aelin. by Bryn on 2013-11-20 06:40:00 UTC Reply

Not much, but her most prominent feature was that she was a HUGE redwall fan. She wasn't around long, but for a little bit she was fairly active.

Addie the Penguin, however, doesn't ring any bells.

I'll prod a few of the other non-board but IRC regulars, see if we can pull together some more info for you.

But trust me, we'd have remembered something if she brought up something like this.
I never saw her in the IRC. by Herr Wozzeck on 2013-11-20 01:26:00 UTC Reply

I don't think she logged on even once.

But whoah, she was plagiarizing the PPC while joining the community? Hot damn... I wish I could say I found that surprising, but knowing my experiences with a particular non-PPC person at the moment, I unfortunately can't say that this is all that surprising. This is just crazy...
Far as I know she either never came into IRC or didn't say m by Ekyl on 2013-11-19 16:02:00 UTC Reply

-uch. Apparently she didn't mesh with the culture here very well and decided to go start her own PPC. I know she didn't seem to interact a whole lot because she left no way to get in touch with her - making my job here a good sight harder. :P
...what? by 99Hedgehog on 2013-11-19 09:55:00 UTC Reply

This is... odd. Very odd. Why would attempt to assimilate with a community just to stab them in the back?

This is a new kind of evil...

Th Emperor Protects...

"Evil" is a bit of a melodramatic way to put it... (nm) by Ekyl on 2013-11-19 16:02:00 UTC Reply
Yeah... by Sergio Turbo on 2013-11-19 10:01:00 UTC Reply

Either she was setting it up already as a backup plan in case we were meanies that wouldn't give her permission (which doesn't look the case, as she never asked) or she pretended to join the community just to spy on us.

Still, asking if it was alright to use inactive agents when you're already plagiarizing everything else? That's... odd to say the least. Unless she was looking for agents to forcibly transfer in the FCA/PPS...

An excuse bring back the DIO if there ever was one. (nm) by Jopalopa on 2013-11-18 20:55:00 UTC Reply

Wouldn't really be their jurisdiction. by Phobos on 2013-11-18 21:41:00 UTC Reply

I think it is more likely to be handled by Captain Dandy's Weeds.

-Phobos

They're not really an external security threat. by Ekyl on 2013-11-19 00:23:00 UTC Reply

Being suspiciously similar (and out of continuity, plagiarised) doesn't really make you a threat the security departments or redcaps need to deal with. DIO, maybe, if they still existed and weren't disbanded for a good reason, but I prefer to go about as if the FCA/PPS just plain don't exist in-continuity. Acknowledging them in setting seems like giving them more attention/perceived legitimacy than is deserved. :P

(Incidentally, still nothing from the admins. Let's give them a week and then ask Wikia to bring down the hammer?)

Yeah, my Wikia contact recommends waiting about a week. (nm) by Neshomeh on 2013-11-19 02:08:00 UTC Reply

That seems like a reasonable amount of time. :P by Ekyl on 2013-11-19 02:12:00 UTC Reply

I'll keep checking in on their wikis for any activity, but if we never hear back at least we have Wikia as recourse.

It might be now. by Huinesoron on 2013-11-18 22:35:00 UTC Reply

Since I've never actually done Justin's getting-off-the-hook story, I might work up a little something with him and Nita to... discuss, not deal with, this. I dunno, I'll see whether a story comes out of it.

hS

Short DIO Plug! by Huinesoron on 2013-11-19 10:37:00 UTC Reply

What, you thought it would be impossible? You thought being disbanded and mostly kicked out of the PPC would mean they couldn't have any more stories?

Yeah, right.

I am pleased to present, Fallen Feathers, Part 2...

Feather: Virfir

Enjoy!

(Technically it's more like Part 4, but 2-3 haven't been written yet...)

hS

Well that was interesting. by World-Jumper on 2013-11-19 23:45:00 UTC Reply

I am semi-intreauged how this 'freelance' group works. Indeed, as Jumper is a multiverse traveler, he may be interested in interacting with such a group. That is not to say that he is not going to be an agent. He'll do his PPC missions like a good little agent (probably Floaters, as it makes since with his personality) and will be a part of the PPC proper. However, if he were to stumble across this group of people, or have them stumble across him...

Right! Two missions first. I swear they will be done. I just don't have the time... Oh, look, Equestria Daily updated...
The funny thing... (slight spoiler) by Ekyl on 2013-11-19 16:20:00 UTC Reply

I can totally buy someone making one of those in DF. People've built functioning computers, monuments with the entire history of the world, etc. etc. in that game.

(Also, I'm surprised a DF-generated world hasn't got anyone's headquarters in, it'd be a good place.)
He's back, is he? by Phobos on 2013-11-19 16:04:00 UTC Reply

It's good to see the old Dwarf. You will recall that I wasn't fond of his fate, so it's nice to see him escape it. I also like the way that Nita reacts to his sudden return. She's had some odd experiences with ghosts recently, so her suspicions are totally justified.

I think this was an interesting way of handling the current situation. The Venus Flytrap and its department are oft forgotten, but they are a good tool for this job.

In other news, you beat me to the punch. I have a short story in the works from Captain Dandy's POV about the whole thing. I will be taking a less direct look at it, though.

-Phobos

It'd make an interesting read! by Ekyl on 2013-11-19 16:24:00 UTC Reply

I have a couple groups who'd likely take an interest in these events but it falls outside of their purview unless stuff gets really out of hand...

That was good. (nm) by Sergio Turbo on 2013-11-19 10:48:00 UTC Reply

Urgh, plagiarism. by Calista on 2013-11-18 20:38:00 UTC Reply

I don't know why these guys thought we wouldn't find out that they're stealing our stuff.

The SEP Field page is partly my work, by the way, and I imagine a lot of you folks are annoyed that they have taken your work, too. I did *research* on that, darn it!

I don't know whether these people are deliberately stealing our stuff, or whether they don't know what plagiarism means and don't realize it's wrong; either way, let's try not to bite their heads off too hard, okay? They're still fellow human beings. If they're of the ignorant variety, maybe they are even willing to learn.
Damn, what the hell did I miss? by Herr Wozzeck on 2013-11-18 03:11:00 UTC Reply

I just... Damn. I don't really have anything to add to the conversation that hasn't been said below either, but... God damn, what's up with that?
A question by Green Armada on 2013-11-17 04:14:00 UTC Reply

Are we on friendly terms with the Anti-Cliche and Mary-Sue Elimination Society?

From what I've seen... by Outhra on 2013-11-17 04:39:00 UTC Reply

We agreed on no official affiliation. We aren't on poor terms with them, but we aren't exactly about to be doing crossovers with them, either.
Adding to the no-crossovers-in-the-foreseeable-future factor is the fact that their community is very different from ours; they have fewer members and no public Board, they don't actually spork real badfics, but instead make up archetypal stories to send their characters into, and the in-universe structure is different, with different power structure, different technology(for the most part; there are some bits like plothole generators, SEP Fields, and Canon Cannons that are shared, but those are either fandom-derived or meta-derived, so it's most likely coincidence), and higher acceptable power level for the agents.

There's actually not a lot of overlap in the particulars, just the basic concepts, and the two organizations basically just let one another fight the Sue scourge their own way. I'm not familiar with the details, but this isn't the first time the Society has been brought up on the Board, and a lot of this reply has just been me summarizing the general responses in the past.

Sounds about right. by Ekyl on 2013-11-17 05:03:00 UTC Reply

I think I recall, or this could just be my interpretation, that the PPC and ACMSES are mutually uncanonical - which is to say, in the PPC setting the ACMSES doesn't canonically exist and vice versa. Either way, we're pretty much neutral, yeah.

(I personally don't care for them, but that's not the topic at hand.)

I believe so. Neutral at least. (nm) by 99Hedgehog on 2013-11-17 04:17:00 UTC Reply

Not much I can really add in this regard... by PoorCynic on 2013-11-17 02:37:00 UTC Reply

...that hasn't already been said. It's inexcusable that this has occurred. It offends me as a writer, as a reader, and as a fan of the arts.
In regards to this... series of events. by Bryn on 2013-11-17 01:44:00 UTC Reply

I'd like to quietly direct you all to the page "EggplaNet" .

And then quietly to the episode list.

I'd like to imagine the creator of this page hadn't been overly familiar with our canon nor it's inhabitants.
This is rather creepy... by Legacy on 2013-11-17 01:23:00 UTC Reply

It's an infant organization, all right, but it follows PPC… everything to a T. Yikes.

The one question is, what do we do? I would suggest contacting these people and (*nicely*) telling them what's going on. We could figure it out from there.

That's exactly what we're trying to do, read down. (nm) by Ekyl on 2013-11-17 01:37:00 UTC Reply

Quick update by Ekyl on 2013-11-17 01:21:00 UTC Reply

I couldn't find Aelin or Addy's e-mail addresses or any other contact information, but I have left a message on their talk pages on both wikis asking for them to get in touch. They haven't really done anything on either for months, but they should receive a notification about my message and get back to me if wikia works like I think it does. Hopefully this can be resolved without any huge drama.

Wikia update by Neshomeh on 2013-11-17 18:28:00 UTC Reply

I've heard back from Wikia. They say:
Thank you for contacting Wikia. Reusing material is acceptable under the Creative Commons license as long as they provide proper attribution on every article and link back to your wiki. There's an example of how to provide proper attribution in our Terms of Use here:

http://www.wikia.com/Licensing#UsingWikiacontent

If they're not currently attributing the content, we recommend that you contact the admins responsible for this content and explain this policy to them, and share the link. If they are unwilling to address the issue, please send us

1) The URL to the conversation you've had with them, and

2) Examples of copied pages (including two URLs each -- one for the page on their wiki and one for the page on yours) so we can research the issue further.

Thanks for being part of Wikia, and happy editing!

Personally, I don't think proper attribution really addresses our grievance at this point, but I'm for seeing what kind of response we get (if any) before deciding how to follow up with Wikia.

~Neshomeh

It might take a bit, if they ever get back to me. by Ekyl on 2013-11-17 18:29:00 UTC Reply

Frankly, I suspect at best we'll get a sort of "Oh, yeah, sorry about that, we'll get right on it" and then never see them again. Would all the barely token name changes slip by Wikia you think?

Thanks for taking point on this, by the way. {= ) (nm) by Neshomeh on 2013-11-17 18:44:00 UTC Reply

No worries, figured it about time I did something useful. :P by Ekyl on 2013-11-17 22:47:00 UTC Reply

Sounds pretty open and shut, but hopefully we hear back and can talk it over with them. Not that there's much point, it being a dead community of all of two people, but just on principle.

Not if we pointed them out. by Neshomeh on 2013-11-17 18:43:00 UTC Reply

I think the situation is fairly impossible to misread, and the fact that they've changed names actually works against them. We're not complaining about them reusing our text to explain a PPC/other concept, which would be fine with correct attribution—we're complaining about them reusing our text to play off a PPC/other concept as their own. Big difference.

~Neshomeh

Wait... OH GOOD EMPEROR by 99Hedgehog on 2013-11-16 22:26:00 UTC Reply

I just had a horrifying revelation.

The 2 societies we speak of might be Doppelganger Sues.

The Emperor... Protects...
It sure looks like it. (nm) by dramaticsoprano on 2013-11-16 21:35:00 UTC Reply
I bring grave tidings... by the Irish Samurai on 2013-11-16 20:33:00 UTC Reply

That's not the only place we're being plagiarised, and yeah, it's pretty damn clear that the FCA is a case of plagiarism.

I was looking round their wiki, mostly for my own personal amusement/entertainment (in a weird sort of way, I'll admit), to see just how many instances I could spot. For reference, as has been pointed out by others, there are a lot - although the most egregious one that I found is a direct reference to the PPC. Quoting from the FCA's Rules:
'346. Thou shalt remember that during the PPC's Quidditch matches, that accidentally taking out Juniper is not a good idea. It only makes her think thou dost like her.' It's also possibly worth noting that this 'Juniper' was in fact Luxury in the original version, and there a few other references to Juniper that I recognise as originally refering to Lux.

Anyway, that's not actually the bad bit...

While browsing, I noticed that one of the other FCA Admins is also active on another wikia site: the Plot Protection Society, or PPS. Now that seemed suspicious enough for me to check out, and when I got there I found a list of stories produced (apparently) by this society. The first mission, titled Not For Harp features three agents going in to Middle-earth to dispose of the Sue, Laurel. That name seemed sort of familiar to me, and after a quick check of our very own wiki, I discovered that I had indeed seen the name Laurel before: that's the name of the Sue from 'Rambling Band', the first ever PPC mission.

From the PPS:

Either way, the music was... not that good. Call Me Maybe just wasn’t meant for the harp. It wasn’t even as if they had anything to drown it out - all three had been forced to turn off their Analysis Devices, or risk being deafened by the now-constant shrills.

Upon the last chord, Emma sighed with relief, and then noticed that Gandalf had stood up and taken Laurel's hand.

"You are quite a special young woman, lady Laurel. You have woven a spell over us all with your wit and beauty. Are you sure you possess no magic?"

Laurel smiled demurely, and Emma tried not to retch. "The little brat even messed with Gandalf," she muttered. "If anyone deserves what I'm going to do to her..."

It was then that Laurel wandered off towards a moonlit balcony, and Boromir following, with a lovestruck expression on his face. Jason, realizing his partner hadn’t noticed, poked Emma in the arm, and pointed.

Emma stared in utter confusion, then realized what was going on and hurried off to a vantage point beneath the balcony.

When Jason reached her side, Emma's teeth were gritted, and she was glaring venomously at the balcony.

"But you told me the bint was after Legolas-”

Jason hurried to correct her, hoping she still had the self-control to restrain herself from murdering him. “Both of them, I said. Remember?” Oh, no.

It was only then that he noticed her hand scrabbling for the strap of her quiver.

"Are you mad?" demanded Jason, snatching her bow away and hoping his partner wouldn't just try to throw the arrow like a dart.
“I don’t think so, but whoever came up with this Sue is! Look at this!" She waved her Device frantically in Jason’s face. "They've just about made up an entire new character and named him Boromir, I am not standing for this, give me back my bow!"
"Not until they're out of Rivendell, remember? You were the one who had to tell me that!" Jason protested. On his shoulder, robin-Harriet twittered in concerned agreement, then jumped when a beep erupted from Jason's pack. He pulled out his Character Analysis Device, which was shrilling strangely.

From the PPC:

It... wasn't that good. Led Zeppelin just wasn't meant for the harp.

Acacia made a face at the sound of the music. It wasn't even as if she had anything to drown it out—she had finally been forced to turn off the sound on her Analysis Device, or risk being deafened by its by-now-constant shrills.

As the music ended, all of the canon characters beamed at the band. Jay winced as Strider and Gandalf cheered... even Elrond and Arwen were smiling interestedly, although Elrond's smile looked a bit forced. Ah, thought Jay, sharing a glance with her friend. The man's no fool.

Acacia smiled faintly, but resumed her grim expression as she aimed her Analysis Device at each canon character in turn and read the rather depressing results. Jay couldn't help noticing the ridiculous number of times it was pointed at Boromir, always with the same result: basically, that he was so far out of character he couldn't poke the canon with a very long pole.

Jay patted her friend's arm comfortingly. "It'll be all right..." She turned her attention back to the Council.

Gandalf had stood up and taken Laurel's hand. "You are quite talented, young lady. You have woven a spell over everyone with your song. Are you sure you know no magic?"

Laurel smiled demurely at Gandalf. "I am positive. I didn't write it, so it is not my magic."

Jay tried not to retch. You even affected Gandalf, you slime mold. You richly deserve what you've got coming...

It was then that she noticed Laurel wandering off towards a balcony... and Boromir following, with a dazed expression on his face. She poked Acacia in the arm, and pointed.

Acacia's jaw dropped. "But you said that Legolas—" she began, then hurried off to a vantage point from the bushes under the balcony.

Jay followed hurriedly. "BOTH of them, I said. Remember?" Oh, dear.

When Jay caught up with her, Acacia was not glaring venomously at the scene on the balcony, but had the slightly unfocused expression that meant she was looking at the words that made the world, and in fact reading ahead of the here-and-now. Jay shook her gently, and she focused again, and now started glaring at the balcony.

And scrabbling for her quiver.

"Are you crazy?" demanded Jay, snatching Acacia's bow away and hoping Acacia wouldn't just try to throw the arrow like a dart.

"No, but whoever came up with this Sue is. And look at this." She showed Jay the Device. "It's even worse than at the Council, they've just about made up a whole new character and named him Boromir, I am NOT standing for this, give me back my bow!"

"Not until they're out of Rivendell! NOT UNTIL THEY'RE OUT. We'll be able to save him then." A faint beep erupted from Jay's pack. She pulled out her Character Analysis Device, which was warbling strangely.

And there are various other instances like that.

So yeah, it's gone beyond just stealing from random pages of the wiki - they're stealing stories too. Which comes under 'Not Cool' as far as I'm concerned.

I bring additional tidings... by Outhra on 2013-11-17 05:04:00 UTC Reply

Not only has the "PPS" been ripping off the PPC, it's also been ripping off the FCA. I was looking around the PPS wiki that was just linked, and immediately noticed, shall we say, similarities between its pages and some of the pages in the already-full-of-stolen-pages FCA wiki, and after I went back to the main pages of both wikis once a brief search revealed a few ACMSES concepts that the FCA, and consequently the PPS, had also absconded with, I recognized something.

The PPS stole the majority of the main page of the FCA Wiki, itself a plagiarized series, and posted it as their own main page with almost no editing or alteration whatsoever. Not only did they lift numerous articles from the plagiarism-wiki word-for-word, they lifted its main page. At least the FCA had the minuscule amount of dignity necessary to make their own main page. This is just... I'm not sure whether to be confused or appalled by the outright laziness that drove that entire process. I seem to be leaning more on the "appalled" side, so I'll keep out of official cross-site discussion. I'd probably end up more enraged than helpful.

Still, though. Why? So much why?

The PPS and FCA are the sam- oh, what Phobos said. (nm) by Ekyl on 2013-11-18 03:30:00 UTC Reply
Now I'm just confused. (nm) by Beekeeper Klein on 2013-11-17 07:50:00 UTC Reply
There's a reason for that. by Phobos on 2013-11-17 05:08:00 UTC Reply

They are the same site. They changed the name, but the people are the same and the idea is the same. So, it wasn't really plagiarizing a plagiarist. Just reusing the same material they had already taken.

-Phobos

Ah, I see it now. by Outhra on 2013-11-19 20:35:00 UTC Reply

I just hadn't checked through their chatlogs. If I had, I would've seen that right away.

Now I'm even more confused, though. The way the two admins refer to it in their chatlogs, both "organizations" are extensions of the same entity, with one being an elite tier of the other, or something like that. So why make two wikis, especially when one wiki is going to be functionally identical to the other? Why not just keep the same one they were using, but change all of the relevant information to fit the altered direction?

Then again, if they were prone to thinking things through, they probably would not be plagiarizing, especially this blatantly.

Oh wow. by autofire372 on 2013-11-16 23:25:00 UTC Reply

That goes beyond Not Cool. That goes all the way to Knock It Off Now.
But why? by dramaticsoprano on 2013-11-16 22:27:00 UTC Reply

Why would someone want to make a rip-off the PPC? It just doesn't make sense.

Everyone to the livechat! by 99Hedgehog on 2013-11-16 22:46:00 UTC Reply

We must plan...

The Emperor Protects!

This shall not stand! by 99Hedgehog on 2013-11-16 22:14:00 UTC Reply

People are directly ripping us off. This is not a good thing by any means. We can not let them get away with this!

The Emperor Protects!

What the kriif is "The Emperor Protects" about? (nm) by dramaticsoprano on 2013-11-17 01:22:00 UTC Reply

It's from Warhammer 40k, I think. by Phobos on 2013-11-17 01:37:00 UTC Reply

It's just Hedgehog's way of signing off. Nothing to get worked up about, I think.

-Phobos

Just a common saying from Warhammer 40k. (nm) by 99Hedgehog on 2013-11-17 03:06:00 UTC Reply

Misspelled "kriff". Sorry. (nm) by dramaticsoprano on 2013-11-17 01:23:00 UTC Reply

...do mini-swears exist...? ...now I kind of want one... by DawnFire on 2013-11-25 06:10:00 UTC Reply

Perhaps 'biege sky over Galifrey'. XD

(They just become minis of whatever continuum they come from, don't they. Or else are just counted as misspellings. Oh well.)

~DF

Well, they certainly don't... by Huinesoron on 2013-11-25 14:56:00 UTC Reply

... become mini-Words.

Because those don't exist.

Honest.

hS

Got it. by DawnFire on 2013-11-25 15:02:00 UTC Reply

Really. I do.

Promise.

Those pictures certainly did not convince me that they might exist in some parallel world or alternate reality. Not at all.

~DF

As long as we're clear on that. (nm) by Huinesoron on 2013-11-25 16:36:00 UTC Reply

Oh definitely. We're clear. Absolutely. Completely. Entirely (nm by DawnFire on 2013-11-25 17:00:00 UTC Reply

No. That is not cool. Not cool at all. by Neshomeh on 2013-11-16 22:03:00 UTC Reply

I have taken the precaution of downloading "Not For Harp" (and please consider those to be sarcasm quotes as well as standard short fiction quotes), in case the Gdoc becomes locked like the others. Documenting here that I have done so.

Did you notice the inserted "badfic quotes" that are completely made-up gibberish? -_-

I don't even.

Also, they stole the Mary Sue article. My Mary Sue article, if you please. As if I needed more reasons to be very, very angry at these people.

I'll be over here frothing at the mouth and ranting incoherently if anyone needs me.

~Neshomeh

Definitely Not Cool by the Irish Samurai on 2013-11-16 22:17:00 UTC Reply

That's probably a good idea - and I'm very curious as to what it locked away behind those other GDoc links.

I didn't notice the gibberish, I don't think I got that far. I just got as far as having definitive proof that it was a copy of the mission before I stopped reading (after all, the name of the Sue could have been a coincidence).

They seem to have stolen a lot of your stuff, I'd offer you some Bleeprin on the off-chance that'd help, but I'm not sure it's strong enough to have any affect. Maybe some Bleepka, or even some experimental Bliskey? (Bleeprin and whiskey - I haven't even given any of this to Agent Skeet yet, and he'd love this stuff).

I think they definitely need to be contacted about this, but probably not right now - it's still too raw for me to think that I could do so and actually remain civil, and I'm guessing you feel the same.

I've taken to neuralyzation for extremely bad things. (nm) by 99Hedgehog on 2013-11-16 22:20:00 UTC Reply

... Whaaaat???? by Sergio Turbo on 2013-11-16 21:53:00 UTC Reply

*tries to calm down as he realized that he's overpunctuating*

They... they copied the TOS and changed the names? Just... Just how in hell?...

*breathes*

This is probably one of the worst cases of hipocrisy I've ever seen. A supposedly badfic-fighting society whose stories are plagirized, and so fall straight into bad writing? Never thought I'd ever see the day.

IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ by Phobos on 2013-11-16 20:03:00 UTC Reply

I've done some further digging and it seems that the two main people in the FCA have not updated their wiki since May. No one has posted on their blog since March, or on their message board, either. So, it is entirely possible that they have given it up. That being the case, it is important that we let them explain themselves. So, let's put the knee-jerk reactions down and let them do that.

Aelin/Impossible, if you are reading this, this would be a good chance to give your side of the story.

-Phobos

Forget I said anything. by Phobos on 2013-11-16 21:46:00 UTC Reply

With the new revelations discovered by the Irish Samurai, they no longer get the benefit of the doubt from me. It was Not Cool to plagiarize the wiki. It is inexcusable to plagiarize Jay and Acacia's work.

-Phobos
I've just read something important :) by the Irish Samurai on 2013-11-16 20:54:00 UTC Reply

I agree that knee-jerk reactions should be put aside, I actually started writing my above post before you'd posted yours - if I'd seen that I would have tempered mine a little.

However, I also think it's worth pointing out that the PPS site seems to have been active after the FCA site stopped getting updates. The most recent update to the PPS that I can find was in September, so while it is possible that they have both been abandoned, I figure it's also possible that the PPS has taken over from the FCA, and it's just been a slow couple of months.

Huh... by Phobos on 2013-11-16 21:22:00 UTC Reply

Yeah, it looks like they just pulled up stakes and moved to a new wiki. Most of this stuff is exactly the same.

-Phobos

It gets better! by SeaTurtle on 2013-11-16 19:44:00 UTC Reply

Firstly, their Armoury is located right off of a Escher room. Sound familiar?

Secondly, the concept of a Black List for dangerous fandoms is directly ripped off from the ACMSES list, right down to slightly-altered descriptions.

Thirdly, their console design is a Google Doodle commemorating Douglas Adams' 61st birthday (it's interactive!).

Fourthly, their HQ's design is a blatant rip-off of the ACMSES Library, with choice edits, of course.

There's like, zero originality in is organization.

...I'm now tempted to have Gaspard run into his copypasta clone whilst on mission.

what by Beekeeper Klein on 2013-11-17 02:45:00 UTC Reply

This... what. what. Why?

As an former ACMSES writer, I am outraged. This is a travesty. I do not want to cause much drama, but I am tempted to tell the ACMSES side of the internet about this. Please stop me.

It would be wise to exercise restraint. by SeaTurtle on 2013-11-17 02:51:00 UTC Reply

Ekyl is on the job now and he's sent messages to the proper people.

We can solve this quietly and peacefully without a huge drama-fest on our hands if we just keep a level head and avoid spreading the news like wildfire. I'm not saying we can't be supremely insulted by this-- in fact, plagiarism is inexcusable-- but I think that we can keep this civil and quiet by not making this bigger than it already is.

In the meantime, we can listen to the soothing sounds of Minecraft's Volume Alpha, by C418. The Subwoofer Lullaby is still the best track out of all of 'em!

Aw (expletive), too late. by Beekeeper Klein on 2013-11-17 03:29:00 UTC Reply

Sorry. My temper got the better of me. (Idiot newbie.)

In my defense though, I told them it's already a dead community.

Meh, go ahead, not like I care. (nm) by Storme Hawk on 2013-11-17 02:48:00 UTC Reply

Also by Phobos on 2013-11-16 17:54:00 UTC Reply

They have a Code Of Laws that lists "4. Thou shalt not steal from others." That's fun, isn't it. That is just above the list of 454 selected entries from "Things I Am Not Allowed To Do In The PPC" which have been edited (poorly) to take out references to the PPC. They still mention some PPC agents by name, though.

-Phobos

Can I just point out... by Phobos on 2013-11-16 19:35:00 UTC Reply

That the choice of which articles to plagiarize is entirely baffling?

Why rip-off the Single Tear article?

Was it really necessary to steal the Humour page?

Seriously, they only have 56 pages right now, and those were some of the things they bothered to take? Why not take some of the Departments that they were going to reference? That would have at least made sense.

Also, almost the entirety of their ~~Unclaimed~~ Available Badfic comes straight out of our Killed list. Stealing kills from such names as Nume, Ilraen, Suicide, and Diocletian (Ring Child), Des and Anebrin (Artemis Fowl and the Time Lord), Floristan and Eusabius (Rainbow Dash Goes To the Mushroom Kingdom), Nume and Ilraen again (Harry Potter and the Dragonsriders of Pern), Mittens and the Radioactive Moss Creature (The Making of a Queen), and Cadmar, Miah, and Cali (The Jedi and the Hobbit).

Maybe they think they can do better?

-Phobos

WTF? by Sergio Turbo on 2013-11-16 16:41:00 UTC Reply

And yes, I'm pretty sure AelinTheAmazing was a Boarder a while ago. If I recall correctly, she (... she was a she, right?) had decided to spork badfics on her own, with her own "agency", instead of affiliating with us, which is fine.

But... well, I'm afraid she's copying the PPC a bit too much.

Exactly. by Autumn_68 on 2013-11-16 21:09:00 UTC Reply

If you actually look up 'AelinTheAmazing' on the Board, you can actually find her introductory post.

~Autumn, hoping to provide some useful information.
Yuuuup. by Desdendelle on 2013-11-16 18:14:00 UTC Reply

They even forgot their old user page in our wiki. Seems really likely that's the case. I think that what Nesh said is right and someone should send them a mail telling them not to plagiarise us. Not me, though, I think I might be a bit impolite.

Definitely a rip-off by Storme Hawk on 2013-11-16 16:39:00 UTC Reply

I mean if you look in their FAQ: For Rookies one of the questions is thus

I've found loads of badfics, but I can't write reports for all of them! What should I do?

List them on the Unclaimed Badfic page, which you can also use to look for a badfic to use in your next mission...

Now they don't even have an 'Unclaimed Badfic' page, which really makes you wonder doesn't it.

My favourite mistake they've made though is in their very first question on the FAQ page.

What's the difference between a department, a subdepartment, and so on?

Departments deal with more general topics, while subdepartments and below are divisions of the departments that deal with more specialized issues. For instance, if there are technical errors in a fic, the Department of Technical Errors will be contacted. They will then look up the errors and decide which subdepartment to send agents from.

For those who haven't looked at the site yet, let's just say they miss a Department of Technical Errors.

Although whilst they do seem to largely be a rip-off, they seem to have different goal to us in that they are trying to 'educate fanwriters about writing goodfic' so they are slightly different if they try and focus on that more.

Storme Hawk
The guy who loves to pick holes in things.

Oh, but they do have a DTE. by Neshomeh on 2013-11-16 16:59:00 UTC Reply

And lots of other familiar-looking departments, too. Scroll down for the full list.

I'll admit I've seen a few original ideas here and there, but I've also turned up a lot that's too bloody familiar. They stole some of our Sibling House names for their HQ's dorm wings, for goodness' sake. Darjeeling, Fruit Bat, and Parmandili. What are the odds of that assortment of words turning up together in two places by random chance? Zero, I'm thinking.

And I know we don't really own Bleeprin, but if you're going to blatantly steal the idea, why not just use Bleeprin and credit Meir Brin and TZA instead of unsubtly renaming it and trying to pass it off as original?

Jeez, I'm mad right now. >.
~Neshomeh

Sigh. by Sergio Turbo on 2013-11-16 17:52:00 UTC Reply

The Brain Bleach article was blatantly copypasted from the Bleeprin one, including the not-for-avian tag... which Brain Bleach as it is described shouldn't have, as it is the aspirin part of Bleeprin what makes the latter unsuitable.

... Should we send AelinTheAmazing a mail in which we kindly ask to stop plagiarizing us?

Yeah, about how to proceed: by Neshomeh on 2013-11-16 18:03:00 UTC Reply

I think contacting Aelin with a polite request to remove all plagiarized content, and also cease and desist with the stealing, needs to be the first step. Is there anyone here who knows/knew her well, and would be comfortable doing that?

Also, FYI, I've contacted Wikia for advice and to learn how they handle issues like this, just in case. Obviously we don't want to escalate matters to that level, but I figure it's better to have the information and not need it than to just wing it.

~Neshomeh

I think it should be one of our "big names". by Sergio Turbo on 2013-11-16 18:26:00 UTC Reply

Like Huinesoron, who's here since... 2003? Anyways, while we don't have community leaders or something like that, I think it should be an oldbye because... well, it sounds more official that way?

Neshomeh is a 'big name' too. :) (nm) by Huinesoron on 2013-11-16 21:37:00 UTC Reply

Well hS... by 99Hedgehog on 2013-11-16 22:30:00 UTC Reply

...looks like it's up to you.

Emperor Guide You.

Um, no thanks? (nm) by Huinesoron on 2013-11-16 23:05:00 UTC Reply

I can take care of it if it's okay with all y'all. by Ekyl on 2013-11-16 23:52:00 UTC Reply

I know I've said this twice, but just for the sake of noting. And also buying time while I dig through for the admin's e-mail address. :p

Go for it! by Techno-Dann on 2013-11-17 00:17:00 UTC Reply

If there's anything I can do to help, by all means let me know.

And for everyone else: Please let Ekyl handle this. If he needs help, additional E-mails, etc, he will ask for it. The last thing we need is a bunch of people defacing pages, sending threatening E-mails etc.

Re: Go for it! by Thanks! Only one issue so far... on 2013-11-17 00:24:00 UTC Reply

I can't seem to find Aelin's e-mail address. I'm digging through both wikis and this thread at the moment.

I'd do it, but I'm taking this rather personally. by Neshomeh on 2013-11-16 19:16:00 UTC Reply

I wrote a fair amount of the content that's been stolen, see. The meat of the Creativity article, for instance. -_-

If it comes down to it, I can speak as an old-oldbie and a PPC Wiki admin, but I'll definitely need some time to cool off first. I'd really prefer if someone else did it.

~Neshomeh

I could give it a shot, with or without a bit of backup. by Ekyl on 2013-11-16 23:05:00 UTC Reply

About time I did something useful around here, after all.

I'm here by Green Armada on 2013-11-17 01:48:00 UTC Reply

Although I'm not a big name, I'll help.
Backup? by 99Hedgehog on 2013-11-16 23:50:00 UTC Reply

You've got it.

I'll let you know if I need the help, thanks. by Ekyl on 2013-11-17 00:02:00 UTC Reply

Just keep cool for now, nothing rash. :p

I'd be willing backup by Storme Hawk on 2013-11-16 23:13:00 UTC Reply

Although I'm not exactly a 'big name' here.

Well typing I typed it into the search bar... by Storme Hawk on 2013-11-16 17:48:00 UTC Reply

and didn't get anything, but hey should've looked deeper.

Damn, also if you look at their barrack's and our RC's they look damn well similar (not the same I'll admit) even down to the colour of one of the beds and the same chair next to the console.

I could go on for a while listing all the similarities.

Storme Hawk

One more (for now) by Storme Hawk on 2013-11-16 18:02:00 UTC Reply

Like I said, I like picking things apart

FCA code of law: Sub-code of Sub-Law is way too similar (if a lot shorter) than TIANATDATPPC parts I-XXV.

Storme Hawk

Interesting thing I found. by Sergio Turbo on 2013-11-16 18:07:00 UTC Reply

Apparently, the FCA bans missions on fandoms like Fullmetal Alchemist, Halo and Terminator because it would be too dangerous for the FCA agents.

... I see no practical reason for that.

Another thing by Green Armada on 2013-11-17 01:50:00 UTC Reply

Code Geass was also on the Blacklist. Is it because of the "shoot and kill" atmosphere? Or because of something else?
I saw that by Storme Hawk on 2013-11-16 18:20:00 UTC Reply

I have no clue about Terminator or Fullmetal Alchemist. But I assume that Halo is deemed 'too dangerous' because the FCA don't have disguises like PPC agents and thus are more likely to be attacked by canon's like (in the Haloverse) the Flood or the Convent or the Prometheans who have something against humanity in general and are more likely to 'kill first ask questions later'.

I have no real idea, I'm just guessing though. It could just be that the admins either love/hate those fandoms too much to write missions in them.

Storme Hawk