The PPC Posting Board - Latest posts

I understand a year might seem like too long, but when someone harasses other PPCers, repeatedly, despite being warned multiple times and asked to stop, I think a Permaban shouldn't be out of the question; if we were to set a time, a year seems perfectly legitimate. This isn't a case of one or two isolated incidents in a heated moment - this sounds like someone who has consistently acted without any regard for feelings that aren't theirs.

I very much do not include Ixi in the shame circle.

It would at least make it easier for the mods to communicate in real time, so they can kick people before things escalate again.

The reason I asked is that I personally wouldn't want to use something identified as a slur even for demonstrative purposes, so I was made concerned by your doing so. Glad to know my concern was unfounded.

hS

All the otters!

Because kittens would be too predictable. And I really do love otters. ^_^



~Neshomeh

If someone tells you "hey, that word is offensive to a lot of people, please stop," you stop!

But you don't get branded an irredeemable bigot or whatever for not happening to be raised in the UK and not happening to be surrounded by people who already know that, that's all.

~Neshomeh

Sorry if I came across as judgemental there. You're right, Pokémon have always been weird, and I didn't mean to put down your taste in fictional critters or harsh anyone's cute buzz.

~Neshomeh

Was the conclusion from that debate really 'it doesn't matter if someone asks you to stop using a word, as long as it's not offensive to you you can go right ahead'? Because that's the impression I get from your... use of the word in question.

hS

Where do I sign on?

... On second thought, that might just lead to civil war. I am fairly certain the good Thanasius Ampelius does regard my more egalitarian tea-drinking ways as evil. We should probably never meet except in public, surrounded by witnesses to ensure our good conduct.

~Neshomeh, Baron of Wechii, etc.

And yeah, I'm all for tolerance as the mods' personal judgement of each situation allows. I don't want to see anyone getting kicked over really minor things, or highly subjective things like... I dunno, something like the debate we had over the word "spastic/spaz." While it's very offensive to some people, and their feelings should be respected, it's also totally acceptable to others, and they probably shouldn't get a black mark for not being raised in a particular culture, yeah?

Of course, insulting a person is not cool, whatever words you use.

~Neshomeh

Unless there are objections, I shall set up a channel wherein only the mods can post, but everyone can see what's going on, three days from now (ie Tuesday), when I return from uni.

1 sounds good; 2 feels like pointless overkill.

Let's make sure Glarn gets a very clear explanation of what's expected of him, too, should he return.

~Neshomeh

I second Storme's post, and I'm particularly concerned with your implication that Iximaz should feel ashamed over this when they were the one being harassed and definitely already feel crappy about it. Don't forget that they're included in "mods" when you say "Quite frankly, the mods ... should feel ashamed." I'm sure we'd all be very pleased to see them stand up for themself more, and to never have cause to doubt that they have the support of the community if someone is being a jerk to them, but I certainly don't think they should be shamed over not wanting to abuse their mod powers to address what may have seemed like a personal issue.

Also, let's please bear in mind that this group of mods are all new to the role, and still learning how best to balance authority with forbearance (and vice versa). It's not something most people automatically know how to do, and if we punish them for having growing pains, I doubt they'll want to keep doing it for very long. I agree that they shouldn't have to feel afraid of reprisal for using their authority, but they shouldn't have to be afraid of reprisal for following their very respectable inclination toward patience and tolerance, either. We should be building their confidence, not tearing it down.

I really think you owe the community, the mod team, and especially Iximaz an apology.

~Neshomeh

I think 2) is pointless. It's just "hurr durr let's punish him in absentia", and that is not productive.
1), however, seems like a sound idea; it's a chance, but with consequences for any misbehaviour.
I'm in favour of implementing 1), but against implementing 2).

On 1) : I personally think a ban lasting one year (if I understood your post correctly, that is what you're proposing) would be too long. I'd propose something more like 3 months at most, since that is, for most cases, plenty of time to rethink oneself's behaviour very thoroughly. If that does not help, a longer ban would be appropriate.

On 2): I second the idea of a symbolic ban, although in this case I think that 3 days would not be enough.

Something important in both cases would be that Glarn is informed (per PM/e-mail) very clearly of the conditons and consequences.

I second your regrets - and add one of my own, namely that I regret not paying enough attention to have seen the situation happening before it was pointed out to me.

That said, I support action one but not two. Given that our problem was in acting on our principles, I don't think that more words (which is what 2 seems to be advocating for) is a useful thing to do - the message will be sent much more clearly when we act immediately next time.

Not all of us knew the full extent of what he was doing? And I'm not just talking about those who don't go on Discord, but I know there are those who do use Discord who don't know the full extent of what he did, or didn't know prior to his kicking from the server. So whilst, yes the bulk of your post may be right, leveling an accusation at the community as a whole is not. Not all of us knew what was even going on, so how the hell were we meant to stop it?

I regret that the situation with Glarn happened.

I regret that I, through insufficient action, allowed it to happen.

I regret that I stood by and did almost nothing (except deliver a warning or two) while Iximaz, a valuable (and unfortunately somewhat mentally vulnerable) member of the PPC community was harassed for weeks, even after it was pointed out to me that it was happening.

I regret not bringing up the matter of how moderators should act, and how they should coordinate their actions, with the community until it was too late.

I also regret that I cannot support the call for a long-term ban I'm sure I just read. There was a very unfortunate lack of clarity regarding rules, process, and expectations, as well as a lack of communication within the mod team. These circumstances prevented the PPC from giving GlarnBoudin the series of consequences that would have made a long-term ban more than appropriate at this point.

Despite these reservations (and the fact that Grarn appears to have left of his own accord), I believe that something more must be done. What happened was unacceptable and wrong. We need to take a stand!

Therefore, I propose that some (at least one) of the following actions be taken with respect to GlarnBoudin.

1) When (if) he comes back, he gets One. Last. Chance. That is, if he goes onto the chat or the Board and starts harassing someone (especially Iximaz) again, being aggressively NSFW, or otherwise violating the Constitution, the incident shall be reported to the Board, and the banhammer falls then and there.

This automatic ban would be long (I'd propose a year, but I don't have any firm commitment to that timeframe) and we would have the option to make it permanent at that time for egregious behavior.

If Glarn comes back and behaves for, say, 3 months, the hairtrigger probation will end and the full ban procedure will be back in effect.

I believe we have used a consequence like this in the past with Data Junkie.

2) A short, symbolic ban, lasting, no more than a week. This would, I believe, not be a significant restriction on Glarn's participation in the PPC, since he appears to have left voluntarily. It would, however, send a message that the kind of behavior Glarn exhibited will not be tolerated here.

I support both of these things (in the case of the symbolic ban, I support three days).

These are obviously not our only options (at the very least, "long ban" and "don't do anything" are valid votes, as is "off with Tomash's head!"), so feel free to propose whatever you'd like in your replies.

- Tomash

Trubbish only has one form (the one in the first picture). Whoever drew the others has quite the imagination, though.