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The amount of bad techniques (bad SPaG, fangirl Japanese) and bad contents (bland and Suelicious at best, insulting to human decency at worst) is the reason I'm trying to gain permission in those fandoms in the first place. See the TouRabu fics I already reported here.

"Yours."

I'm not funny, but neither am I sorry. =]

I finally charged my phone! So, I sent over some constructive criticism. Honestly, this fandom is a breath of fresh air, compared to the creepypasta fandom I’m on. I swear some of the users there have the general SPAG understanding of a third grader.

I think it's much more reasonable to use extended descriptions like this in a novel-length work, where there are expected to be slower sections of world-building exposition and stuff.

In a one-shot like a Permission piece, though, economy of words is important—and it's a good skill to have even if you intend to write novels, too. It's the ability to make deliberate, self-aware choices, say what you mean, and mean what you say. If you've got a handle on clear, concise prose, then, if you choose to be flowery or meandering at times, your audience can feel confident that there's a good reason for it.

~Neshomeh might have more than two cents' worth of opinions on this topic.

(Surely Christianity doesn't have a monopoly on numeral-based systems of divination, though?)

Really, I think it was, like, birth numbers or "angel numbers" or something like that, where each numeral 1-9 is assigned certain characteristics, and every possible combination of numerals (such as a birth date) can be reduced to one of the nine through arcane mathematics. Like, I'm a 2 because my birthdate is the 11th and 1 + 1 = 2, and that signifies stuff about my basic character and prognosis in life? IDK. A friend of mine who's actually into it explained it to me years ago, and I don't remember.

Anyway, 26 and 62 are smallish numbers in the grand scheme of things, and they're pleasingly not odd or prime or anything like that. They're accommodating. Versatile. Flexible. So those are my candidates for an actual number. {= )

~Neshomeh

It was a second-person self-insert fic into Stardust Crusaders, but I didn't actually read it, so I don't know if it's actually good. All I remember is that the self-insert character's Stand was made of cockroaches.

It just...shouldn't take over the story, really, and so on.

See: Tamora Pierce. She tends to describe characters as we meet them, more or less (immediately or within a few lines of dialogue, mostly). Through the descriptions, though, we tend to learn a bit about the new character--their social status, personality, current emotional state, stuff like that. It's also at least sometimes filtered partially through another character's observations, and used to tell us a bit more about said other character and what they notice (can be linked to backstory--for example, Trisana Chandler, who's from a Merchant family, will notice specifically if someone's wearing more or less expensive fabrics, etc, and do so in such a way that you see that she picked up a whole lot of knowledge, was probably even taught it).

Here, I'll find an example.

And here we go! A connected pair of descriptions, from Daja's Book. They're of two of the four main characters, both pretty young at this point (and by chance, at least on my part, originating in directly opposite social classes. Might have been intentional on Pierce's part to place them in the same scene for this early set of descriptions; at any rate, these come from pages 16-18 in my copy). Both characters appeared earlier, with minimal description (a sentence or two here and there, in exactly the style of providing relevant details as the story moves along that you mentioned):

Sandry (Lady Sandrilene fa Toren):

[Sandry] was a slim, fine-boned girl, with bright blue eyes and a stubborn chin. Sunstreaks gilded her brown hair, tidily braided and pinned up under a sheer gray veil. Her overgrown was dove gray linen, sleeveless and plain but for a long row of jet buttons down the front. Jet buttons also twinkled atop her small, black shoes. Her puff-sleeved undergown was white cotton, woven so fine as to be almost comfortable in the stuffy heat of the day. She would have loved to trade this elegant mourning for just one of her light cotton dresses, but that would have shocked the nobles who housed her great-uncle and his companions on this long ride through Duke Vedris' [said great-uncle's] realm. [...] Instead, as long as she rode with the duke, she wore the clothes proper to her station and envied her three friends their freedom to wear colors and fewer layers as she herself did at home.

and Briar (Briar Moss, Sandry's non-biological brother):

Briar leaned against the tree and ate his grapes. Unlike [Sandry], he was dressed for comfort: he wore cotton breeches and normally went barefoot, unless one of their teachers forced him into sandals or boots. At five feet, he was taller than Sandry by a hand's length. He had the glossy black hair--worn short and rough-cut--almond-shaped eyes, and gold-brown skin of an easterner, but a thin-bladed nose and eyes that changed from gray-green to lime green pointed to western blood in one of his parents. He wasn't sure which of them it might be: he had never known his father, and his mother had died when he was four.

(Briar's doing better than some months earlier--if I remember correctly, he used to cut the sleeves off his shirts, not just run around barefoot!)

Anyway: she does take time to describe characters, at moments when it won't grind the story to a halt--earlier, for example, she mentioned that Sandry was dressed richly (in contrast to the other three kids), but she waited for a quieter scene to give the full picture. She also uses the descriptions to tell us useful/interesting things: Sandry's station constraining her, the fact that it doesn't do so in the same way when she's home (and hints that her great-uncle the Duke doesn't mind it); Briar's much less stable childhood (the description only hints at it, but it's mentioned elsewhere and a large part of who he is and how he develops--he was on the streets from his mother's death onwards, surviving as a thief in a little gang), the fact that he's still adjusting to his new life but is actually beginning to relax into it (that's admittedly more noticeable if you've read the previous two books--I have, so I can see the contrast between the boy who complained about the new ways of dressing [claiming parts of it were uncomfortable or unnecessary, and doing things like, as I mentioned, cutting off his sleeves] and this version of him who still has to be forced into shoes but doesn't seem to have really modified his outfit, or to be shifting uncomfortably in it). These are useful descriptions, and she uses them and others like them to build a very complete, colorful world. Side characters will often get much shorter descriptions; it really depends on role, and the observing character, and if they're being used to provide contrast, like the paragraph I just found in a later chapter comparing the hosting noble to Duke Vedris! She uses it to, through Sandry's eyes, comment on...well, basically on them being very different types of people, and to strongly imply that Sandry--of a very similar social class, even!--approves more of her great-uncle's version. Even better, this is a recurring theme throughout the entire series.

Alright. I do, in fact, intend to do something else in the next couple hours, so I'd better wrap this up...but hopefully I've made my point with this impromptu mini-essay on Tamora Pierce's writing style. Detailed descriptions aren't always bad! As with many, many things, it's all in how you use them and where they're placed :)

~Z, who did, in fact, just take the opportunity to dive back into one of her favorite fictional worlds for longer than intended. Why? Because fun!

I agree with everything hS said, except that I'd advocate a best practice of giving your audience some idea of what your protagonists look like in their first appearance, while keeping it sensible for the POV and narrative voice you're using. If there's an observing character who would think "they remind me of a porcelain doll," that's fine. It's a simple description that gives a lot of information in just a few words, which can be very effective. But, like hS says, the words you choose and how you use them do imply things about the observer as much as or more than the observed, so be careful how you frame your description—especially since connotations may vary. Your observer may like dolls, but some people find them really creepy.

Also, if a more distant narrator is being extra-poetic about a particular character, that might very well raise Suvian flags for me.

But yeah, describing a character certainly shouldn't be immediate if there are more important things for the audience to be paying attention to, such as the all-important establishment of "where are we, what's happening, and why should I care?" Your picture can be built up gradually, as the pieces become relevant. It doesn't take much at all to give people an idea. It can be as simple as choosing your nouns well and/or slipping in an adjective now and then while describing an action the character is doing.

It's really very much more about the how and why than the what.

~Neshomeh's two cents.

As you have wisely discerned through the noble art of numerology, 26 (or 62, for to a true numerologist they are the same number) is the most romantic number!

• 26, as the number of the last letter of the alphabet, indicates completeness.

• 2 + 6 = 8, the number of the letter H. What does H look like? Correct - two people holding hands.

• 2 * 6 = 12, the number of months in the year, again indicating completeness.

• 6-2 = 4. See the triangle in the numeral? A triangle is the most stable shape, just like a true romantic relationship.

• 6/2 = 3, again pointing to the triangle. Since we know from numerology that Christianity is the only true religion, this also indicates the number of people in a perfect couple - the two partners, and God.

• Um... if you mirror 2 and place the mirror to its left, you get an underlined heart. If you rotate 6 180 degrees and place it to the right you get 69. So applying both to the number 26 gets you [heart] 69.

• Um... ooh! It takes three pen strokes to draw the number 26; that triangle again!

• The 26th word of the Bible is 'the', and the 62nd is also 'the'! The romance indicated by the number is "the definite article", you see.

&c &c &c

hS

So I have a partly written story that is meant to end up in Lux's RC, and I also wanted to answer this question. Since 69 is taken, I was thinking 62 or 26, based on whatever numerology site I looked at when I was clicking around for numbers associated with love/romance. Foolishly, I didn't note the link, and I dunno if I can replicate the process now, but it ain't like numerology is a science anyway.

On the general topic, I don't personally like wacky RC numbers (or not-numbers). I can get my head around a lot of them, like the absurdly large numbers, numbers expressed as mathematical or other symbols, and even imaginary or impossible values, as long as they're still technically numbers; and for lots of the non-numbers, I can handwave it with a headcanon that there is a number, but the agents aren't using it for whatever reason (e.g. the door is missing). And, like, if it does the job of identifying where the agents live, fine. But as a joke, the humor value is extremely limited, so I don't really see the point of stretching for it.

That, however, is Just My Opinion, and clearly hasn't stopped anyone since ever. {= )

~Neshomeh

hands you some Bleepka

When there were decimals, I accomodated them. When there were negative numbers, things still went pretty well. When I had to go look up the approximate numerical value of e, things were still fairly okay. But Molybdenum? Where on the list am I supposed to stick that? - Luthien, 27 October 2005

Luthien compiled the original list of RC Numbers in November 2004 - we still have the thread subject lines! A Random Boo talks about how they tried to claim RC #pi 'a while ago', and then replies to themself to seemingly do so. So I think my assertion that there were only integer RCs for a time is, um, nonsense, or at least applies only to a year and a half of the PPC community's history.

hS

Y'know... <3

Several times over the last week I've tried to write posts on the concept that the PPC runs less on "Here is the Official Ruling of the Glorious PPC" and more on "Well, here's what I think", and that if it's not explicitly stated on the Wiki, the newest newbie's opinion counts for exactly as much as the most decrepit ancientbie. But I never got one that I liked, so I haven't posted it.

Until now, obvs.

(The Wiki specifies that J&A are the only people who get a letter alone; even parsed as a string, 'TBA' is three letters.)

(From a history-headcanon perspective, the Weeds probably numbered the rooms they mapped out during the Cascade in roughly sequential order, but there's a million and one reasons for them to have been changed. It would be interesting to look at when various oddities entered the list; at one point almost all RCs were 4 digit numbers.)

hS

The only other character aside from Jay and Acacia who would actually warrant the letter-only RC number would be Luxury, whose RC has appeared numerous times at this point, but has never actually been named. Definitely something that should be decided on together as a community, but . . . what letter(s) would that be? L seems maybe a little easy, but it makes logical sense. I suppose there's always, uh, V or D . . . >.>

(I guess Sean would qualify too, but since he only reappeared last year thanks to Mirage Fontane, he may not wind up seeing enough use to really need a defined RC.)

—doctorlit, not sure how this suggestion will be taken

But also, I thought Hidaney's original question was going to see a lot more response. Can we take the lack of pushback to mean he's good to use TBA as an RC?

It's about why you're describing the character in the narrative. Think of your favourite books - do they sit down and tell you exactly what everyone looks like? Mine certainly don't! They provide details naturally as the story goes along.

It might help to consider the viewpoint character (1st, 2nd, or 3rd-person-limited): a detailed description implies that they're intensely scrutinizing the person they're describing. If that person is themselves? You're implying they're self-absorbed, possibly narcissistically vain. If it's someone else? That's often going to be creepy. Save it for the romantic scenes.

As an experiment: the classic Bold Font picture shows us that Jay is taller than Acacia and redheaded, while Acy is a brunette with glasses. If you just read the missions, when do you think you'd find those things out? Take a minute to make a guess.

~

~

~

Height: The middle of TOS mission 3 defines Jay as 'the taller black cloak'.

Glasses, hair colour: both of these first appear in TOS mission 10, when the agents are seen through the eyes of a class full of terrified OFUM students.

That's ten whole stories before we find out what our protagonists look like! Compare to Suvians who drop paragraphs on themselves in the first chapter...

If you're introducing the character you mention to both the audience and the viewpoint character simultaneously, something like "[tall,] pale, and very pretty" is about all I'd expect. If they already know each other, I wouldn't even anticipate that.

hS

Because I realized some lines sounded problematic. The rest is fine though.

An agent I'm planning is a really pretty bishōnen who wears makeup and hair decorations, and I'm trying as hard as possible to describe him accordingly without crossing into Sueish territory. Those are the only flowery descriptions I bestow him. Is this okay?

... is what he would have written; except, seeing as it means "Pictures are not words!" and is a protest against writing as a concept, it would be kind of strange if he had.

But rest assured, he was shouting it.

-SIELU (we really need to finish the Guide, don't we?)

I just think the idea of an RC + or an RC ∞ pretty cool.

That super long Suelicious reader-insert Onmyōji fic is also driving me insane!

Mind bleaching alcoholic substances! Exactly what I needed after browsing Redwall fanfiction. You wouldn’t believe the amount of Sue-fics I found.

Happy Boardiversary! Here's to many more!

Thanks for the enchanted pen as well!

…oops. I had this tab open for so long before realizing I forgot to actually make the post.

exchanges a glass frog for a pen

What do you mean it-

pen morphs into a frog

Ah well, different things for different peeps, I guess?

(scrambles for towel)