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Agreed. I mean, it's fine to admire a good fanfiction, and if it inspires unique ideas that's even better, but the whole point of fanfiction, I think, is that it's your own take on an author's work. Not your take on a take.

I second your other point as well; suppose this was the first fanfiction you'd ever read for the fandom. You'd have a devil of a time trying to remember what was the canon and what the first fanfic's author put in there.

If it was based on a fic that was an AU to start with, that could get really confusing.

The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe With a Twist » reviews
What would have happened if another child was in the country with the Pevensies? Let's say it was a close friend of the family's, a girl Peter's age. How would this change things? What would happen to the prophecy? Your about to find out. Peter/OC
C. S. Lewis - Fiction Rated: T - English - General/Romance - Chapters: 3 - Words: 8,075 - Reviews: 9 - Updated: 6-18-08 - Published: 5-21-08

My comment: Words fail me.

I love these reports. Vicarious living and all that.

It's too bad W_Monk, Cedar Copse and I never got around to writing up the Chicago report. And that WalMart lost me my photos. We went time-traveling and got harassed by Security Plants. And I'm pretty sure we all sang the Mary-Sue song together on the steps of the Natural History Museum.

... I don't suppose anyone is within a train ride of Philadelphia...?

~Neshomeh, here through July.

And the rest of the weapons. xD

But possible. It probably wouldn't be a standard mission, though; I imagine the agent(s) would get a specific debriefing from the Flower and told exactly what they could and could not do.

Nice report, hS. I enjoyed it. I'm terribly jealous, of course, but I enjoyed it. Cheers!

Yes, it's been less than a week since the Gathering took place, and already I have managed to produce...

The Report!

Featuring, as ever, a great many photographs, along with (a first for any PPC Gathering to my knowledge) a seven-to-eight minute video, kindly hosted by Youtube (and currently, for me, not working, but hopefully that's just my computer). No, I won't tell you what it is, stop asking and just go and read.

Anyway! That's what the Britons among you do with our free time; just think what you foreigners could get up to if you put your minds to it.

Thanks go to everyone involved -- those who attended, and... er... anyone else who needs thanking.

hS

To my recollection, there are now at least three canonical explanations on how Mary-Sues come to be. Thus:

a) Mary-Sue Factories which breed them specifically as 'Sues (cf. The Reorganisation, among others)

b) Schools which take normal girls and teach them to be 'Sues (cf. Diary of an Undercover Sue, which enters the PPC canon by the intervention of Dafydd and Selene)

c) That they are a completely non-human lifeform with numerous very strange traits (cf. The Theory of Suvian Origins on the Wiki)

All three of these are true, in that 'Sues have been attested to come from them. Which isn't to say that there aren't other ways they show up, too. They're a versatile lot, and there's always room for another origin story.

hS

Just for the record, I know difference but sometimes I still get stuck in the old habit of using othe -r suffix on both. The capitalization thing is completely inexcusable though.

From your quotes, I have decided to simplify my character roster, define various Ainur mechanics, and develop a better use for various story elements.

On a different note, would Mary sues work as Things from the Dungeon Dimensions hoping to gain a form that would, in theory ,allow them influence and followers, but in reality freak us out?

I could do Library if July doesn't mind.

It also makes a little sense: if a tendril of the Eru conciousness (traditional male pronouns nonwithstanding, my current personal belief system is more likely to treat the One as gender-neutral) was the soul going into the Joshua body, the "project" would recieve much more attention, labour and resources than if it was an anonymous maia.

In my ficverse, those who mostly regret the project are a smattering of maiar that are growing dissatisfied with the so-called "benign oligarchy" of the Valar and a precieved over-willingness to meddle in the affairs of mortals while at the same time being estranged from the struggles that they face in everyday life (today, pulling the virgin birth thing would most likely either gain a long litany of curses from the refusing teenager or neccesitate using/abusing the faith of a girl from one of those ridiculously devout sects).

The Valar, for the most part (in my story), acknowledge that while brutality and atrocity have been commited under the guise and in the name of christianity, hold that these things would have happened anyway in any widespread religion, and that the projects positive results have far outweighed the negative.

Melian, as I imagine her, was sympathetic to this view, but after living an a mortal body in a major american city for 18+ years and having to reconcile her upbringing with her remembered existance, feels viscerally that such blatant manipulation is unacceptable, and that autocracy or oligarchy in any form: mortal, good Ainur or evil Ainur is neither ethical nor a workable soloution.

However, in the face of a prematurely returned Morgoth rapidly gaining power and influence, would it just be easier to just go with the plan or should she pay heed to the sensibilities of her adopted culture?

It's more of a theoretical interplay between divine plans drawn out in antiquity and modern western society.

Of course, there are workarounds... mary-sue artifacts for instance. Of course, that's what started this mess in the first place.

But fics of fics are still rather annoying. I wish people wouldn't write them; it get's far too confusing sometimes to try and differential the different aspects of the fic from the canon or the author's ideas. It's like playing 'telephone'. Things get garbled along the way.

I don't truly know; I've heard of the whole "fic of a pre-existing fic" concept, but:
It seems to me that this kind of fanfic is not as wholly based on the true canon as its predecessor would have been.

Fanfic 1 is directly based on canon, with the author's own ideas added in. Fanfic 2 is based on the first author's ideas, before the normal canon, rather than an original idea.

Of course, if the first fic was perfect, well-written, well-thought-out, and canon-adherent, while the second fic is a disgrace to not only the fandom but to the first author's work, there would be due cause, especially if the first author is outraged.

I suppose it could work, but I would definitely acknowledge the author of the fic it's based on, as well as the author who originally created the fandom, in the disclaimer.

And I might even ask the first author's permission, because you never know; they might have let a not-as-talented friend write something based on their story, and if they discover you've gruesomely killed it they might get mad.

could an ainur be inserted in a newly created humanoid embryo in lieu of an original soul, or is that breaking several of Erus' laws, written and non?

The singular is 'Ainu', and should really be capitalised. However, where I was going with this was Huan, who is almost certainly a Power (I forget whether it's explicitely stated or no) and yet was born like any other dog (who presumably are not). So a Maia choosing to be born is attested. However, unless you care to count Luthien, who is debatably a Power herself... no, scratch that, she almost certainly is. Look at the last page of Of Beren and Luthien:

'These were the choices that he gave to Luthien. Because of her labours and her sorrow, she should be released from Mandos, and go to Valimar, there to dwell until the world's end among the Valar, forgetting all griefs that her life had known.

'[...] This doom [ie, mortality] she chose, forsaking the Blessed Realm, and putting aside all claim to kinship with those that dwell there.'

If this were a matter of standard rebirth, there would be no reason to live in Valimar: her uncle Olwe lives down at Alqualonde, and she'd certainly be more at home there than in the Golden City. So while it could be read differently, I suspect that this passage is confirmation that (assuming Ainur cannot beget Ainur, and you will note that despite all the couples of Valar, there are no children -- in fact, children were in the original concept, but were then removed) Luthien is an Ainu who entered the world to be incarnated as our dear Tinuviel.

As with everything else, of course, this is open to interpretation.

hS

(I'm refering to the Jesus bit here) If you happen to have access to HoME 10 (Morgoth's Ring), go and read the Athrabeth Finrod Ah Andreth. A ways in Andreth talks about about the Old Hope:

"They say," answered Andreth: "they say that the One will himself enter into Arda, and heal Men and all the Marring from the beginning to the end."

Andreth isn't very taken with this idea, but Finrod (who is after all very wise) seems to be on the verge of believing it:

"And yet, Andreth, to speak with humility, I cannot concieve how else this healing could be achieved. Since Eru will surely not suffer Melkor to turn the world to his own will and to triumph in the end. Yet there is no power concievable greater than Melkor save Eru only. Therefore Eru, if He will not relinquish His work to Melkor, who must else proceed to mastery, then Eru must come in to conquer him."

He then adds that even if Melkor were thrust from Arda this would still be necessary.

So there you have it. It's not actually a direct Authorial statement that Eru will come into the world as Christ, but it's as close as you're going to get.

hS

It was delete the spaces. I'll get it back to you shortly ^^

Definitely the right sort of title, to my mind. Don't forget the thousand elephants though.

Unfortunatly I don't have time to help out with it. If you wanted to use the Store owner (Leto Haven) you are more than welcome to, just remember that the PPC General Store is staffed by minis. But that is neither here nor there.

Keep up the good work! Wish that I could help.

Leto

But I can do English (South East, Home Counties, South Coast), Welsh, Irish (Southern), French, and American (North or South).
I hope this will be some use if a specific accent is required!

Over half the list of characters now have vocalists. These ones still don't. Please let me know if you're willing to do them. Agents with a * are reserved for their authors until otherwise stated.

Cray
Morgan
Denny
Colt
Rosedale
Architeuthis
The Venomous Tentacula
The Yarrow
Lucien, whom I think is Scottish (correct me if I'm wrong)
Library
Anjilly*
Brenden*
Tirsaer
Redd
Naomi
Kim*
Ansela*
Risa*

I have two free weeks coming up, though my microphone is not of the greatest quality - it's a built-in laptop one. Nevertheless, it should do the job.

that kind of desperately need voicing. We have ONE British male Boarder that I know of, and he's requested that we leave him out of this project unless it's absolutely vital that he steps in. Which is fair enough, because hS does more than enough for the PPC as it is.

Anyway. We have Fynn's two Agents, Archer and Sabbat, both with British accents.

Sabbat's normal accent varies between plain English and very slightly American (mid-west). Archer seems to have a rather cultured, more upper-class voice.

So if you could take them, that would be brilliant- although I am aware that it means you'd be landed with four fairly major roles. If you can't do it, I'll ask around.

the original fanfic would have been using the world of an esablished canon- that's what fanfic *does*. Therefore, a fanfic of the fanfic should still be in that same world.

E.g. a really good fic set in the Tolkienverse is still IN the 'verse. So fanfic of that fic would also be set in the Tolkienverse (unless they've done something really screwy, in which case they should be cleared out anyway.)

So basically, a fic of a fic would probably be violating the original canon, not the fic canon. If they're using the same characters, it'd probably be counted as a very bad copy of the fic, not a secondary fic, and would be screwing up the Canon world. It could also be nabbed for plagarism.

And here it is. Is is possible for the PPC Agents to go into a good fanfic and kill a Sue?

Explanation behind this:
We've all read a good fanfic that we've enjoyed, and when it was done, sat back and sighed with contentment. In some cases, some authors write a fanfic of the fanfic, using the original fanfic's world in their story.

Now, would it be feasible for the PPC to go into the secondary fanfics world if the characters and things were screwing up the world of the original fanfic?