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The only thing really strong enough to hurt a servant is another servant. Not even the strongest of masters can really face a servant (I think there might be a few that did very briefly) and I'm not sure the summons would be strong enough to do damage.

But Rulers are a whole different animal. Spoilers for Fate/Apocrypha follow.


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One of the servants in Apocrypha was Lancer of Black, True Name Vlad III. In the Fate universe a servant's strength is based on the location the grail war is taking place and the strength of their legend. Apocrypha took place in Romania. While the fight occurred in Romania he was arguably the strongest servant. He got taken out of Romania and was forced to use his second noble phantasm. Legend of Dracula. Which turned him into the strongest Vampire in existence. He was basically able to rag doll the servants present including Karna, Achilles, and Atalanta shrugging of all attacks. He meets one Ruler and retreats encounters the second Ruler and is curb-stomped in about five seconds.

Likewise Assassin of Black, True Name Jack the Ripper. None of the other Servants were fairing well against Jack especially once it went into her Reality Marble. Ruler defeats Jack easily breaks the Reality Marble and then is able to completely shrug of Atalanta's Attack and takes no noticeable damage when she later faces Atalanta's Noble Phantasm.

I think there would be three possibilities.

1. Apocrypha. Basically the PPC's masters would coalesce to one team and the grail would then choose another 7 masters and it would be team based until the end.

2. Grand Orders. The only rule is survival, Rulers can be summoned by masters, etc. This is an all out Grail interceding to prevent complete and utter destruction of the world/universe

3. Extra/Extella. Hundreds of Masters all competing for the Grail eventually a stalemate will occur or one will be left standing.

Have either some form of corruption or are at least Monkey's Paw like wishes.

Almost all Fate properties are in some variant alternate universe. But also keep in mind the grails in FGO are very different. For starters there are a ton. Some are more corrupt than others and require cleansing others are fine as is.

For example Fuyuki was extremely corrupted, which is why there was only one non-corrupted servant (aside from Mash and any the PC brings) in that entire singularity. Orleans was also particularly corrupted (hence Jalter's Existence), but Okeanos was not corrupted.

But if that's the case, firstly, I don't know how old Chaldea is, and secondly, I'm almost certain GO is set in an AU. Which means that it's irrelevant: The Grail may never have been corrupted in that universe.

In the prime Fate timeline, however, The Grail is absolutely corrupt. Even if Kiritsugu hadn't won, and the wish had been more achievable by peaceful means, the Fuyuki Grail can only destroy.

I think Illya might be as good as a solution. With Herakles at her side at any moment she's not bonding with the other members of her family

But I remember that Grand Order's big organization, Chaldea, was created thanks to funds and means its founder secured thanks to a wish to the Grail he managed to not duck up.

Unless you count what happened after him and his Servant got their wish without immediate monkey paw effect...

I'm assuming we're talking about the Fuyuki Grail, post-IIIrd War. Other AU Grails aren't necessarily the same, although I'd ask the Fate Experts.

The Grail is corrupt. No wish would really be free of this. For that matter, it isn't the Grail that wants to manifest itself.

The explanation is spoilers for Heaven's Feel, so I don't really want to give it unless you're sure you want it (because you don't want to wade through a long Visual novel or wait for the rest of the Heaven's Feel movie trilogy to come out), but TL;DR I wouldn't wish on the Grail if I were you.

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Firstly, Rulers often (or even always) have incredibly powerful Noble Phantasms and Skills. Jeanne D'Arc's Luminosite Eternelle is basically a Universal Attack Nope, and her La Pucelle could have destroyed the Greater Grail if Amakusa (another Ruler) hadn't used his Big Crunch to stop it. This is on top of things like being able to tell the True Names of any Servant and having their Command Seals, which they can use on any Servant. So, even if you beat them, you probably won't live to tell about it.

As I understand it, though I could be wrong, it's basically when the Grail is controlled by one party entirely, and they, for the moment, at least, are not interested in fighting over it for whatever reason. In our case, the party would probably be the PPC, and while there are differences from the Yggdmillennia case, at the end of the day, if seven of us were chosen as Masters, there would, in all likelihood, be no war. Thus, the PPC would be placed against some other organization, who would have seven Masters of their own so that blood would actually be spilled.

Its desire is to manifest itself in the world, in the form of a wish, so I don't think it especially cares what the wish is as long as you make one? The catch is that it can only carry out your wish by means you yourself can comprehend. So, one guy's wish was to save people from suffering, but he'd lived his life as an assassin, saving the many by killing the few or the one—even if the one was someone he cared about. His wish was basically reduced to a mathematical process by which the population of the world was eventually wiped out altogether. (He refused to make the wish once he saw the consequences.)

So yeah, canonically, it's a tricky business indeed. It relies on the wish-maker to really understand what they're doing, and themself, to boot.

Or, well, that's my read on it from limited information about the franchise. I'm sure someone will correct me. {= )

For context, this wish is where I arrived from a starting position of "Thanos has a point, but I don't want to kill people, so..." Basically, what's the best way to reduce the world's population? I can't math hard enough to limit the birth rate without eventually making us go extinct, so that's out. Educating women, though—that helps. Let's make sure all women can get educated. And heck, why leave out the men? Everyone gets access to education. While we're at it... And here we are.

~Neshomeh

To get a setup where a large-scale wish works exactly right, you pretty much need a mind-reading intelligent wish-granter - if they can't read your mind, and act intelligently on what they see, they won't know all the things you mean but don't say. To look at your wish: education, health, safety, civil rights, the environment? The easiest way to keep people healthy and safe is to shut down all industry (also saves the environment!). Electricity is not required for any of your priorities. Nor is food beyond what's nutritionally required, so we're all living on soya beans - not because access to other food is restricted (that would be a civil rights violation), but because the government is only supporting soya (or whatever; pick your own suitable staple).

Education? Let's assume you mean 'the education you yourself have received', rather than 'anything so long as they're learning'. But wait, that means everywhere is turned into America, and gets to learn about American history rather than its own. Cultural preservation isn't on the list, so that's fine, right? Unless you've got a very intelligent wish-granter, they're not even going to know where to start!

And once you do have a super-intelligent all-powerful mind reader... why are they spending their time granting wishes for the people who have so many horrible thoughts all the time?

*Are they enslaved (either overtly or by their nature)? That's an excellent reason to sabotage the wishes.

*Or are they doing it of their own free will? In which case they're only going to grant the wishes that accord with their own desires anyway.

*Or do they Just Want To Help? In which case why are they waiting for wishes? They're already a godlike entity, they might as well just fix things.

It takes a lot of storywrangling to create a wish-giver that will both want and be able to grant the wish you mean to wish, with the consequences you mean to happen. Given how many things in our own world have unintended consequences (hey, I hear burning coal is great for heating!), why would magic wishes be any different?

hS

PS: We're the PPC. Screwball comedy is how we roll. ^_^

PPS: Self-nitpicking: if I'm reclassing the Kelda as a Beserker, I may as well go all the way and switch to using Jeannie. Seems more her speed, plus Rob Anybody will be even more likely to bring the clan to her aid.

(And if these Heroic Spirits are actually copies, rather than the originals transported, then Real!Jeannie will also come along to get angry at her duplicate. And then, y'know, Feegles, fightin'...)

We'll need reconnaissance to find out what the other Masters are up to, of course!

Typical Holy Grail Wars (at least the ones in the anime adaptations I've seen) are super-serious and kinda grim. I am all for turning this one into a lighthearted screwball comedy where good actually triumphs in the end.

I had a whole debate with Phobos last night about the (im)morality of my wish, and how wishes never turn out like you expect them to, so even with the best rules-lawyering in the multiverse something will still go wrong and it will end up with half the world losing their free will. I say the whole trope of wishes going wrong only exists because our world doesn't have magical wishes, so they can only be used in stories to teach lessons that can apply to us. In a world that DOES have real magical wishes, why shouldn't they be able to work as intended? ^_^

~Neshomeh

Are your Rulers somehow powerful enough to avoid being a) picked up by both feet and b) headbutted into submission? And on the arbitrary assumption that the clan were able to take it down, what would happen next?

I have no idea what an Apocrypha situation is, but it does sound like something we'd do.

hS

Normslly, when a Ruler shows up, it's to put things in order, because somebody's been messing with the rules or something. As ypu would be the one doing the messing, they would, one way or the other, try and put things back the way they 'should' be. Of course, this might be better than thed alternative. The only case in which a Ruler was summoned, not to make the War occur properly, but to fight in it, he tried to destroy all the evil in the world without killing the people that evil was a part of. It is very good he was stopped.

Also, is it just me, or if we of the PPC ended up in a War against each other, would we immediately activate an Apocrypha situation?

Or is it more of a 'bad/interesting/Dwarf-Fortress!Fun' thing?

Because I know nothing about this whatever-it-is except what's been in this thread.

hS

There was the Fate/Apocrypha grail war where there were two teams each having one of the seven standard servants (one for each team). There was also the Extra/Extella versions where there was no particular limit to the servants summoned, but that involved the Moon Cell. Then there are also the Grand Orders which allow multiple servants of any class.

However, the teaming up in a Grail War would increase the likelihood of a Ruler getting involved, especially if it was to overthrow the Grail War System.

Robinton has Zair. The Feegles have Hamish.

Do we now have a tiny, angry blue dragonrider?

"Crivens!"

hS

... but she's still a Feegle; I'm sure I could persuade her to class as Berserker.

...

Does this make the Masterharper our new Gonnagle?

hS

Are we using the Fuyuki Grail War system? Because if not, the summoning conditions can be changed.

... in our lives.

Ladies and Gentlemen of the PPC, I wish to present to you... Jeanne Alter Santa Lily!

Also known as: An absolutely adorable smol ball who is this year's Fate/Grand Order Event Santa. Today was Day One of the event and I'm already half-tempted to ditch Cú and Tamamo-no-Mae for this little bundle of joy.

The rules of this game suck. Let's sidestep them for a better future—together!

There's a bit of a snag if your Kelda is a Caster, because unless things get really weird there can only be one Servant of each class, but assuming for a moment that we get around that somehow...

I just want to see a clan of Feegle carry off all the extremely overpowered Sabers and Berserkers and such. The looks of confusion would be beautiful. ^_^

~Neshomeh

I told Phobos that Beowulf's Noble Phantasm should be that he gets uber-powerful if he gets naked. I'm pretty sure that was in the story. And if it wasn't, it was definitely in the recent-ish horrible CGI mess of a film adaptation. ^_^

~Neshomeh