Subject: Thanks for your response.
Posted on: 2020-03-16 19:03:30 UTC

Unfortunately, it looks like pretty much every response I could give to yours would now necessitate going back to find exact posts and wording and so on if I want to be sure I have it right, and that sounds like a fairly stressful few hours, so I'm going to leave it at "there are nuances to all this (that I can't confidently state correctly without going back) and IIRC the bit about personalities was to do with that it should be possible to write and develop PPC characters to some extent outside of the PPC setting, because a well-rounded character is a well-rounded character."

This does leave me with one more question, though, which is actually more or less the same question with added context: you say you two were discussing your trying for Permission under the same conditions as Bramandin. This initially sounded strange because the process has changed; since it turns out you know it has, did you mean it was a hypothetical discussion? More like, "if you had to try for Permission under the same conditions I did, it would be impossible/you would fail because it's impossible" than "if you want Permission, you'll be going for it under the same conditions I did (and you'll fail because it's impossible)"?


PS: One reason why pretty much no one is eager to to reopen all this to any form of serious or less serious discussion is that it's already been gone over and gone over and gone over for years. This is why the wiki page gets linked as a fairly complete record of what's gone on; if you think the headings are biased, you can ignore them, but just about every major incident is linked. Zdimensia was banned; she came back as Bramandin, unbeknownst to most of us, got Permission, participated in the community, and when it eventually came out that she was a previously banned member, there was a discussion about how to proceed. As far as I remember, she was eventually banned a second time (I remember it taking ~half a year or more, but could be wrong) for new reasons, rather than purely because she'd been banned in the past. That's the ban being upheld at this point. She's come back under other new names since, several of which sparked still more discussions, attempts to hear her out (I'm pretty sure the gdoc where she was writing out her side of the story, or something similar, is linked either directly on the wiki page or in a relevant post which is itself linked there), and on and on. This is not a case of "there was one little misunderstanding, we banned her over it, and that's that, no one at the PPC is open to hearing her side and never has been." It's "she was banned once, perhaps partially due to misunderstandings, came back, got a second chance, was banned again, continued to return and sparked/participated in multiple discussions, and it eventually reached the point where it's become clear discussions/attempts at resolution of multiple sorts have not worked and are not working, and thus the ban is now upheld without response for everyone's sake." Believe me when I say we've been over this again and again for years. It's not healthy for anyone involved at this point; heck, this is probably the most personally involved I've ever gotten (2014-15 were busy times for me, and so I more or less missed Zdimensia, hadn't had much reason to interact with Bramandin before her identity as Zdimensia came out, and henceforth stayed pretty well out of the whole thing because I wasn't already involved and really didn't need more stress), and I've got a nice little bit of adrenaline going as I type. Other people have expressed worse feelings, including some who were more involved initially and some who have only been around a couple years. Bramandin herself has expressed some pretty bad reactions to interacting with this community. The general feeling here by now is that we've had all the discussions already, and done pretty much everything reasonable to attempt to resolve the situation, and even taken a few lessons from what happened. It's become clear that more discussions or attempts won't help at this point. Please, for everyone's sake, let's all move forward properly already.

And I think that's me done on any topic apart from the Permission bit. I don't mean any of the above as an attack on you or Bramandin, either, if it somehow comes across that way; I'm just trying to explain more of what's in play here, because I want you to understand that this is not a simple situation or one that was never really addressed/addressed only halfheartedly, and also just why the community is reacting the way it is.

Reply Return to messages