Subject: I'm in cautious partial agreement with this.
Author:
Posted on: 2013-08-07 09:32:00 UTC
Disagreement first: I don't think 'Expanding the Definition' should be 'Primary Traits'. It is what it says - an expansion, with specific contrasts and discussion. It's a 'this is what we mean by that', not a set of traits per se.
However, I do agree that 'primary' should be moved to 'secondary'. To answer hermione's question about when OOC characters can be well-written - most of the current primary traits are very much workable in an AU setting. How would the Ring War have been different if Aragorn had been more like Boromir - ie, somewhat arrogant, and very susceptible to the Ring? Heck, what would have happened if the hereditary leader of the Rangers of the North had been a cruel, cold character (let's call him 'Aragorn', since that's his name) - and then happened on four hobbits and a magic Ring in Bree?
But they are, usually, bad things. That doesn't mean there's a Mary-Sue involved. A perfectly good character can still be in a story where the rules of the world are ignored.
Actually, the way they are explained on the page, the 'Primary' traits pretty much are inexcusable. A little tweaking to add a few 'without explanation's and the like would make them purely indicative of bad writing - without, of course, necessarily making for a Suefic.
I would suggest, then, retitling 'Primary Traits' to something like 'Other bad writing' (only better phrased ;)) and letting it stand as a 'This sort of bad writing doesn't necessarily make for a Mary-Sue, but it does mark a badly-written story of the sort in which they often appear'.
As to the 'Secondary Traits'... I don't think removing them is the right answer. Like it or not (and I don't, particularly), people in and out of the PPC will see things like 'a flowing waterfall of gold-and-violet curls' and think 'Mary-Sue'. If we don't mention that fact, people are going to be rather confused as to why we're using the word.
What I think we need is a section that specifically debunks the idea that these traits are anything other than common characteristics of Sues. That is, something that points out firmly that a) a non-flat character cannot be a Mary-Sue, b) Mary-Sues can only be identified by the quality (or lack thereof) of their writing, c) but that many people will assume that any character with the following traits is a 'Sue, even though any of them - or all of them together - can be written well.
hS