Subject: While Cynic said most of what I was going to...
Author:
Posted on: 2014-02-12 15:42:00 UTC
...My concern with the third bit you wrote is it seems to be set up to make the entire DIA look like idiots to make your agent look cool. I don't know if this was intended but it's the inescapable vibe I get from reading it; this bit of feedback's probably useless now the thread has fallen off the front page, but I can elaborate anyway if anyone reads this. :P
That's right, folks! Sit up straight and get out your notebooks, 'cause it's time for the second of my possibly many workshop/rant/advice/things. Today's subject will be speech and speaking -- specifically, speeches and speaking done by your characters. I'll go over how to make it, how to intertwine it with your characterization, and how to avoid abusing it. Just as last time, I will begin with my own personal recommendations and conclude with an open writing challenge.
Definitions
I'll be using the words "speech" and "voice" quite a few times over the course of this post. These are both being used to describe a character's manner of verbal communication. "Dialogue" refers to shared communication between two or more characters, just as "monologue" refers to a person speaking by his or herself.
Speech and Characterization
You might recall from my first entry on characterization that I very briefly mentioned finding some aspect of your character's voice that was distinctive. A good character has something about their manner of speaking or word choice or what have you that sets them apart from anyone they might be speaking to.
But the connection between voice and character goes further than that. Who an individual is can inform how they speak to others. A character who goes to college to study sociology will likely not sound the same as the high school-educated barista who serves him coffee at the campus Starbucks.
How you want someone to sound when they speak is something you should consider while making the character, at least for a little bit. If you make a super-strict rule-stickler and then make them speak like someone fresh off the Californian waves, your audience might be a bit baffled. (Not to say such a character wouldn't be interesting; you'd just need to throw out a lot of explanation for why they're like that).
Dialects and Foreign Languages
Related to characterization in speech is the concept of dialects (regional and social elements in a character's voice). Using dialects in one's writing can be very much a double-edged sword. On the one hand, it's a convenient way to indicate elements of someone's background without having to spell it out. Someone talks about going up to Haavahd to see their brothah, you might be able to work out that they're from an upper-class Boston family (or doing a terrible JFK impression; sorry to anyone from Boston).
The risk is taking it too far, to the point of unreadability. It's okay to throw a few phonetically-spelled elements of dialect into someone's speech, but not for every word. You don't want to confuse the audience... unless of course that's your intention and you're making a joke out of someone having an ultra-thick Bayou or West Country accent (like in Hot Fuzz).
On a similar note are elements of foreign languages. Used sparingly, they add a bit of color to characters (see Firefly). Used too much or without context (when and with who is this character using a foreign language?) and your audience is once again left in the dark. You should ideally know at least a bit of the language you're using, too. Having someone who speaks the language help you is also acceptable. Looking up common phrases can be a bit hit or miss. Online translation services should be avoided, unless you're okay with people who know the language asking you why you inserted such a butchered phrase.
We Don't Need No Stinkin' Rules
Speech doesn't necessarily have to follow the same grammatical rules as most other written text. The vast majority of people in the world don't speak according to the proper rules of whatever language they follow. They speak in run-ons or fragments. They begin sentences with "and" or "but." They use words or phrases like "ain't" or "the big stabby thingy." The rules someone does or doesn't follow when they speak can tell the audience a great deal about who they are.
Actually, We DO Need Some Rules
Just because your characters can ignore the rules of proper grammar doesn't mean that the author (that is to say, you) can. There are some things you can't ignore:
• When you follow up speech with a descriptor (he said, she said, etc.), the speech must end with a comma and not a period. Ex.: "...and that's how I got that particular scar," he remarked.
• One cannot "smile" or "frown" spoken words. One can "say with a smile" or "comment with a frown." Ex.: "I'm good," she smiled. VERSUS "I'm good," she replied with a smile.
• Different people speaking get their own paragraphs. No exceptions.
The Challenge!
Write a short story -- just a few paragraphs, really -- that is mostly someone speaking. Let's say at least seventy to eighty percent speech. It can be a dialogue or a monologue. I leave that up to you.
Remember to read and critique the responses left by others, as well as to enjoy yourself. Have fun and good writing to you all!
You might want to hold off on posting them (or the links to them) until I copy the body of the workshop over to my PPC Wiki blog. I fear this thread will not be much longer for the front page.
Or would you save entries when moving it over, or something.
(Funny enough, I asked that JUST before I noticed Irish Samurai wrote multiple as well)
The first actually isn't one of mine, but comes from a published book. However, I read it just after reading the Workshop post, and it seemed to be a little masterclass in how to give characters distinctive voices, so I figured it was worth sharing.
This extract come from Starfighters of Adumar, book 9 in the 'X-wing series', written by Aaron Allston.
* * *
Wedge said, “This is Red Leader. Understood. We launch at arrival plus five seconds. Red Flight, are you good to go?”
“Red Two, ready.” That was Tycho, as economical of words as he was of motion.
“Red Three, four lit and ready to burn.” Janson’s inimitable voice and enthusiasm were evident even across the standard X-wing comm distortion.
“Red Four, nothing’s gone wrong yet.” There was almost a hopeful note to Hobbie’s dour tone.
* * *
It's not perfect - sometimes Tycho simply has a lot to say, and Janson tends to get more serious and brief when they're in combat, but you can usually take a good guess at who is speaking, without having to rely on their names/callsigns. And you can pretty much always tell whenever Hobbie is speaking.
The next one is just a random piece of mine. I've had the Captain's first words in my head for quite some time now, as an intro / establishing character moment, and just built the scene around that. I don't have a story for this character yet, but when I do, some variation of this scene will probably play out pretty early on.
* * *
The corporate headquarters of Zanex rarely hosted such unrefined guests, but when the need arose one of the smaller and less well furnished meeting rooms was used.
Five corporate employees, their suits perfectly tailored and spotlessly clean, sat opposite the two men in rough spacers’ clothes. Five was far more than would be needed for the negotiation, in fact, the senior policy maker had the authority to handle the matter himself. But he could hardly be expected to talk with people of such low status. The suited men to his immediate left and right were mid-level executives; it was they that would take care of the actual communication. The final two were junior executives, present merely to observe the proceedings.
At a gesture from the policymaker, the man on his right began speaking. “Welcome, Captain Ivaken, Master Jacus, to our prosperous business. It is our hope that together, we can work…”
Jacus wished that he could share a look with his captain, to see if he had started to tune out the man’s obsequious speech, but to do so risked insulting their prospective client. Instead, he waited patiently, nodding occasionally at the man’s words to give the impression of attentiveness.
The voice faded into the background, droning on for long enough that Jacus’ thoughts drifted further than he’d intended. With a start, he suddenly realised that the room was silent, and that expectant faces were watching him from across the table. Either the Captain wanted him to take the lead, or he’d been bored enough to lose concentration altogether.
Jacus stepped forward, till he was level with the Captain in his seat. “Thank you for the welcome, and for the opportunity of doing business with you.”
The central suit whispered something into the ear of the speaker, and Jacus inwardly braced himself for the next monologue.
“Forgive me for asking but, while we have dealt with Drenai before, and you come highly recommended by him, your ship and crew are an unknown quantity for us. How do we know that we can trust you?”
Sweet merciful gods, he’s actually being brief. “A perfectly reasonable concern. Please allow us to offer you some reassurances-”
The sound of snapping fingers, reverberating in the small room thanks to its lack of soft furnishings, cut him off exactly where he expected it to. He stepped back, resuming his place just behind and to the right of his Captain.
“My loyalty is a commodity like any other – it’s available to the highest bidder. If you’re not the highest bidder in these parts, then you probably don’t want to be doing business with me. And I certainly don’t want to be doing business with you.”
“You mean that you’d break our agreement if someone offered you more money?”
“Of course not.” The tone of the words carried an unspoken ‘don’t be an idiot’. “If one of your rivals were to try and buy me out while I was carrying your cargo, I would immediately contact you, so that you’d have the opportunity to put in a counteroffer.”
“And how do we know that you won’t say you have received such an offer from one of our rivals, even if no such offer were actually made, in order to drive your price up?”
“You get what you pay for, and I’m very good at what I do. My price structure reflects that. I think you’ll find that they’re high enough already.”
This time there was a whole whispered discussion, rather than just simple instructions being passed down.
“And what would your price be for this job?”
“Five hundred thousand.”
“What!? We could buy our own ship for that!” The executive’s calm demeanour had been shattered, and his face flushed with embarrassment. The harsh whispers directed at him carried a hint of reprimand.
“Yeah, you could buy a ship. But not my ship. And Zanex can count several ships on its roster, all of which cost more, and none of which are suitable. If they were, you wouldn’t have asked us here.”
There was silence for a while, as the suits digested the fact that their guests were not the simple-minded space-juicers they’d expected them to be.
The quiet was finally broken by the second executive. “The price that you have quoted still seems high for a simple transit of cargo, even for transport through potentially hostile territory. Perhaps we could see a cost breakdown? How did you come up with that figure?”
“You think the galactic banks issue insurance to people in my line of work? If my ship gets damaged doing your job, I gotta pay for that outta my own pocket, twice. Once for the repair costs, and once for the time it wastes where I can’t work. My fee includes shipping and handling, fuel costs, the bribes I’ll have to pay, plus a risk factor to cover any damages.”
“It sounds as if at least some of your fee is based on variables that you can’t properly determine at this time. What if we were to negotiate a lower initial fee, but with higher charges for any actual damage sustained in your endeavours on our behalf?”
His words were met with silence from both parties, and the young executive began to wonder if he’d made a mistake. Maybe the smuggler was insulted by the talk of a lower price, maybe his own superior was offended that he’d offered a deal with consulting with him…
“Finally there’s a businessman among you!” Ivaken pointed a finger at the suddenly relived exec. “You, I can make a deal with.” His finger shifted to point at the former speaker. “Get him outta here.”
* * *
My final piece features a couple of PPC Agents, including DIA Officer Shacklemore, whose first and only other appearance was in PoorCynic's previous Workshop.
* * *
Officer Theodore Shacklemore calmly finished writing up the latest transcription, then looked at the DMS Agent across the table from him. “I’m sure I don’t need to tell you that that last remark was close to an act of insubordination.”
Skeet leaned forward, his wrists settling on the table with a metallic jangle. “Technically speaking, wouldn't I have to be your subordinate in order to act insubordinate? Last time I checked, that’s not how they run this place.”
“As you well know, Assassin, insubordination refers to any act of disobedience or rebellion. And given your current status, disobedience is hardly going to be helpful to you.”
“Hey, I have a name, Shacklemore, and I know you know it – it’s in my file, along with rest of my details. I don’t call you ‘Officer’.”
“Have you considered doing so? It would be a show of respect. You gain nothing from this defiant act-”
“I have no intention of performing an act of defiance. An act of violence, on the other hand…”
“Would gain you even less.”
“Yeah? Well we’ll see if you feel the same way after I bounce your head off this table.”
“A task that will not be aided by your restraints.”
“What, these old things?” Skeet held his manacled wrists up. “A holdout blaster, a decent knife… hell, I could get out of these with a toothpick!”
“That sounds like quite a feat. I’d be very interested in seeing you do that.”
“Oh, errr… I-I don’t actually have a… toothpick on me… at the moment.”
Shacklemore made another note on the tablet in front of him, then reached up into his breast pocket and pulled out a pack of toothpicks. He selected one, and proceeded to work it into the gap between his incisor and canine, then put it down on the table. He then selected a fresh one and offered it across the table.
Skeet leaned back from the proffered pick, slouching in his chair and running his hands through his hair as if to straighten his ponytail, a movement that was slightly hampered by the cuffs. By the time he brought his hands back into view again, he’d somehow acquired a vibroknife.
The weapon made short work of the steel restraints.
“You were searched for weapons before being brought here.”
“Yes. Yes I was.”
* * *
So I've tried to do something a little different to normal here and focus exclusively on the dialogue, only including the other narration when it was absolutely necessary to show what was happening in the scene. If I do end up using this scene in the actual storyline, I'll probably 'fill in the blanks' a little, actually give some descriptions and a few more speech tags, etc. For now, I'm just wondering how well I did characterising these guys just through their words.
...My concern with the third bit you wrote is it seems to be set up to make the entire DIA look like idiots to make your agent look cool. I don't know if this was intended but it's the inescapable vibe I get from reading it; this bit of feedback's probably useless now the thread has fallen off the front page, but I can elaborate anyway if anyone reads this. :P
No feedback is ever useless, particularly in this case as I've never had any problem with the sign in system on the Board, so I get an e-mail alert whenever someone replies to a comment of mine :)
It wasn't my intention to make the DIA seem like idiots (I'll admit that I do like making my agents look cool, but Shacklemore is just as much an agent of mine as Skeet is). I was just going for conflicting personalities, and a situation involving actual conflict, so that I could get their respective voices as distinct as possible.
Personally, I think it's Skeet that's being the idiot here - he's being incredibly brash and cocky, when polite co-operation would be far more beneficial to him. Let's face it, he's been arrested by the DIA; Skeet isn't going anywhere until they choose to let him do so.
I wouldn't want the DIA to seem like idiots. As well as having some DIA members, such as Shacklemore, appear as supporting roles in Skeet and Amy's stories, I do plan on writing some stuff for the DIA itself. I think it'd make an interesting change of pace from the typical missions, which tend to follow the same general patterns, and can be broadly classed as comedic action/adventure. With the DIA, I could try my hand at writing a PPC detective story.
Hope that clears things up. Do you have any advice on how I could change things to avoid that vibe you got? Just in case anyone else thought the same.
samurai_ireland@hotmail.com
Regarding the Starfighters of Adumar:
This snippet doesn't read well at all to my eyes. The description that follows after each bit of dialogue is completely redundant. I can tell Jansen is enthusiastic for a fight based on what he said. Hobbie is obviously something of a wet blanket based on his apparent anticipation of something going wrong. The dialogue seemed capable of standing on its own without the added descriptors.
Regarding the piece with Captain Ivaken:
This is better than the first example. Ivaken has a very strong and distinctive voice, although I do wish it had been a bit rougher (as benefits what seems to be a somewhat shady smuggler). I might be a bit spoiled in that regard by images of other space-wandering rogues a la Han Solo or Malcolm Reynolds, though. I'm definitely interested in seeing him interact with more people, and how different those interactions would be depending on who those other people are.
A few minor things:
-- 'Five was far more than would be needed for the negotiation' should be a separate sentence.
-- Word choice: 'obsequious' is a bit too much. What about 'oily' or 'ingratiating'?
-- 'The central suit whispered something into the ear of the speaker, and Jacus inwardly braced himself for the next monologue' can be separated into two separate sentences.
Regarding the piece with Skeet and Shacklemore:
This is great bit of back and forth. Very nice contentious banter, like you might hear out of a good cop drama. The ending also feels a bit cliff-hangery, which I really quite like. Is violence actually going to break out, or was Skeet just messing around to make a point? Solid stuff.
The only major qualm I have is Skeet's line 'Oh, errr… I-I don’t actually have a… toothpick on me… at the moment.' The sudden awkwardness just seems to clash with his previous sort of quiet bravado. Unless that's actually part of his character and he's putting on a very front for Shacklemore.
Regarding Starfighters of Adumar, I do sort of see what you mean. To give a little bit of context to the scene, it takes place near the beginning of the book, and I think it's one of the first times the main characters are actually gathered together. They're all recurring characters from the series (and the expanded universe in general) so I guess it's just supposed to be a little refresher of the characterisation that they've had before. (On a side note, I wouldn't personally class Hobbie as a wet blanket - while he is a very pessimistic 'glass is half empty' kind of guy, he is still a pilot in an elite fighter squadron).
I agree that avoiding redundancy/repetition is a good general rule, but I think it does have a place if it's used to confirm/emphasize a point, which is what I think it was doing in this case.
Having said that, it does feel a little clumsy, and that's part of the reason that I decided to strip down the piece with Skeet and Shacklemore to just the dialogue and the minimum description necessary for it to make sense.
The X-wing series also provides another really good example of giving a character a distinctive voice: Admiral Ackbar. He's an amphibious alien, and frequently uses ocean analogies when speaking - threats that they can't identify are referred to as riptides, fleets of spaceships descend on their targets 'like a tidal wave', etc. (I don't have the books in front of me, so I can't give actual quotes). It's quite subtle, but very effective when you notice it.
Regarding Captain Ivaken, I'm glad you feel that I was able to give him a distinctive voice, and I do take your point that he could sound a bit rougher. Being honest, I hadn't really given much thought to his characterisation beyond that single defining introductory line. Thanks for pointing out that other stuff too, particularly my use of 'obsequious' - it doesn't really fit with the rest of the piece. I think I'll use 'oily' for the re-write.
Regarding Skeet and Shacklemore, thank you for the comments. I'll have to bring Shacklemore into my actual spin-off sometime soon, instead of just using him in these workshops, because he's incredibly good fun to write.
Skeet's awkwardness with that line is supposed to be because he wasn't expecting Shacklemore to call his bluff (and yes, he was bluffing, he doesn't know how to get out of handcuffs using only a toothpick - but then, he doesn't need to). Maybe I over-exaggerated it a little, but I was trying to convey that through the dialogue alone, instead of using something like 'Not prepared for his bluff being called, Skeet stammered out a response...'.
Going back to the general subject of your workshop, one other way of giving a character a unique voice is to use a different font for them, like Death has in the Discworld books. As with transcribed accents/dialects I don't think it'd work if it was overused, but it's used very effectively in Discworld.
I was going to mention that as a method of creating unique voice. Discworld provides quite a few examples of that being used effectively besides Death (the golem written font in Feet of Clay and the Klatch-specific font in Jingo for example). The trouble is, that technique is a bit more difficult to use online for things like the PPC. Trying to implement different fonts can be a difficult task depending on how you choose to present your stories.
If you're looking to actually publish your story, using different fonts can open up a different problem all together: licensing. Fonts are considered to be copywritable. Some require licensing to be used in published material.
Oh yeah, I'd forgotten about the golem script and the Klatchian. I get your point about the potential difficulty of doing using that particular technique, it should be straightforward if you're using Google Docs to publish missions, but I don't know about anywhere else. And I never knew that fonts could be protected like that, that could certainly make things more complicated.
Thinking about it a little more, another way to give characters a distinctive voice is to give them unusual speech marks. Andalites have a distinctive way of speaking, so if you see someone talking <like this> around HQ, it's a safe bet that it's Agent Ilraen. Similarly, I've seen mechanical/robotic individuals talk +++like this+++, ::or this::. It's similar in effect to using a special font, but should be much easier to implement.
Character speech is actually a remarkably thought provoking topic. There's a fair bit that I've just done unconsciously before, and am only realising it now that I've stopped to think about it.
One of the things that I do tend consider when I'm trying to find a character's 'voice' is whether or not they use contractions, especially the more slang terms like gonna / going to.
Another, relatively minor, thing that I tend to think about is what they say when they pause for thought - whether they ummm..., errrrr..., or just always have a ready answer.
I believe some context is needed before people read it however...
This is based upon a game I play called Spiral Knights, it's my first time trying to write anything from that universe as well. And yeah, Storme Hawk will be becoming an Agent soon. More stuff about Spiral Knights can be found on the Wiki, although just for quick reference, Soldiers are fairly low ranked Spiral Knights, Storme Hawk is a Defender, a reasonably high ranked Spiral Knight but he's only recently been inducted to that rank, Vanguards are the highest rank possible and is only available after completing every ranked mission in the game.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1J3v4I3w0Z5iCUYDTE-Vy3O1KojM3z79UbCG-DfkzBaM/edit?usp=sharing
The use of speech in your piece was... well it was rather unremarkable. Generic, almost. Nothing about it stood out. Nothing about it really told me anything about the characters. I only thing was able to ascertain was that Storme Hawk himself seems like a vaguely laid back character due to his use of slang like 'sup' and 'cool.'
Besides that, though, this piece is full of punctuation and grammar errors. There are missing commas, commas in places of periods, improperly structured sentences, and improper capitalization amongst other issues. There's a paragraph spaced entirely by itself that has no reason to be.
Finally, this seems to be pretty much impenetrable to someone who doesn't know anything about Spiral Knights. Who is Vanaduke? What is a Bark Module? Why are they needed for Pulsars? People should not have to skim through a Wiki to figure out what you're talking about. In regards to matters of canon that might not be known to a large audience, the impetus should not be on the reader to research, but for you to explain in a clear and concise manner.
Okay, I definitely wrote something much longer than you were looking for, compared to the other stories so far. I also flagrantly disregarded your advice of not using a foreign language I'm unfamiliar with, but after a family of tourists from New Caledonia came through my zoo a couple of weeks ago, it struck me as strange that the PPC doesn't have more New Caledonian characters, so . . . yeah. Fixed that a bit.
http://doctorlit.dreamwidth.org/3452.html
So, yeah. If anyone finds a mistake in my French, feel free to yell at me for it. Any other mistakes, too, as this is unbeta'd (fun fact: rough draft was written during a single day shift at the stingray touch tank). Sorry about that, but I have no time to do much of anything any more!
This reads pretty well to me. It doesn't strike me as being particularly speech-heavy as per my request, but there are still plenty of good moments conveyed through what dialogue there is. I get what Severine and Yoof are about (or at least, a basic snapshot of what they're about) just by reading some of their lines.
I like that you're doing more (if only a little bit) with New Caledonia. I think it's easy to forget that the PPC isn't just Headquarters. Goodness knows I've forgotten that a few times.
A tip regarding using foreign languages (which I must admit didn't come from me, but from the excellent book How Not To Write A Novel. Simple yet vital words like 'yes' or 'no' are typically amongst the first picked up by non-native speakers, so having Severine say 'oui oui' just seems a bit off to me. I did like her saying 'mon coeur' upon being surprised, however. That's a good way of using foreign languages right there.
I have one final note not related to the content of your writing. Your main Dreamwidth page is a little hard to navigate with all of your stories on full display.
I think there needs to be a balance, though, between using the foreign-language words realistically and using words the audience will actually recognize. (Which I probably broke by using "mon coeur," but you obviously knew it, so . . .)
And my Dreamwidth . . . hm. I hadn't really intended it to be navigable, but I guess I'd better fix it now that I have stuff there that doesn't fit into Doc's or Vania's wiki page chronologies. Shame I don't have a clue how to change that . . .
...is that it's all about context. You can use phrases and words that people might not specifically know so long as they can make a close guess (although I will admit that I actually do speak and read a little French).
Firefly is a prime example of this. The vast majority of its audience probably did not know what the occasional Chinese lines meant, but they were at least able to hazard a guess from the context in which those phrases were used. So when Inara says of the bounty hunter Early "Any chance the xiong meng de kung ren might survive?" after he's terrorized the crew and almost killed Simon, you can guess that it might not be particularly complimentary sentiment.
Specifically, my epic megamission starring Agent Huinesoron has him using a lot of incidental Quenya. I've been trying to put in enough context that you don't have to be able to understand his actual words, like this:
~
"Uito! Uito!" I whispered. "Úcenilyen! Úmeren nahtalyen!" You can't see me! I don't want to die!
Another step.
Nyx seemed to be counting in whatever language she called her own, though whether up or down, I don't know.
Another step, and a snuffling sound, as if the Balrog was sniffing the ground we'd just passed over.
"Varda, hyamen! Á lave ni lenda! Antuvan illi!" I was desperate now, promising the Valar anything – anything at all – if they'd just get me out of this.
Another step, and then-
"The minis!" Nyx hissed. "By all the saints – Huinesoron, give me the Activator! It's our only hope!"
"Estel ná vanwa!" I wailed, but threw her my pack anyway.
~
There's a combination here of direct translation ('You can't see me!') provided by the (first-person) narrator, explanation ('promising the Valar anything') without actually directly translating, and complete lack of translation ('Estel na vanwa!'), with the narrative context trying to make the sense clear (his actual words are 'Hope is lost'; the 'wail' and 'but... anyway' sentence are supposed to convey the idea that he either thinks she's wrong, or just disagrees with her).
And then, of course, there's an appendix at the end giving the actual translations, because I know my audience. ;)
hS
I learned French at school, but forgot nearly all of it over the years.
Anyway, there are some words missing:
She interacted with agents in person far less frequently than she did with their stashes, and no idea who lived where. should probably read and had no idea.
The wall opposite had television set should probably be The wall opposite had a television set.
And capitalization is missing at the begin of the sentence the green glow of a night light ...
I seem to remember these potatoes, but I may need to reread your missions, which wouldn’t be a bad thing if I only had the time.
HG
All those mistakes were right near each other. I must have been falling asleep right there and didn't realize!
The tater tots came from the author's note of my Sherlock Holmes mission. "Much tot eh confusion of the other inhabitants of 221b baker street." I (perhaps forcibly) misinterpreted this as tater tots that cause confusion. (Why tater tots instead of a little kid? Well, I like potatoes a lot more than I like children.)
Hey! That's the same sentence that produced the mini-Hound of the Baskervilles who appears in this story! Nice.
So I answer. The French seemed pretty good, though there was one thing I wasn't sure about.
In "'Bon bon! Find it, Yoof, find it!'", were you trying to have Séverine say "Good, good!" like I assume you were? That would make sense, though I'd probably put a comma between the 'bons'. The only thing that's hindering my comprehension is that, in French, bonbon means candy, which could also make sense in context. Just a note.
You're also missing the opening quotation marks here: She slammed the door and turned to Yoof, who had all of his hair and fur standing on end. Let us return to the kitchens before that beast attracts attention."
Nice! And it's true... I hadn't realised how very few New Caledonians there are.
-Aila
And yes, the candy pun was intentional. I'm glad my French usage was at least passable, otherwise.
I know you said to use dialects sparingly, but I had a scene that absolutely needed to be written, and it just happens to involve several distinct dialects. It may be too much, but it is important.
So, I give you the first meeting of "Da Society For Da Equal Treatment'A Trolls, But Not Dose Trolls, Ya Know Da Trolls I Mean" or DSFDETATBNDTYKDTIM for short.
Trolling For The Cause
-Phobos
The use of a unique dialect for each character made it totally clear who was speaking each line, with no further clarification needed once they'd been introduced. I don't think it would work as well in a longer piece - having to think about the dialogue all the time, and do a little bit of translation, would probably get tedious/annoying, but I think it worked really well in this short piece.
I really liked the 'Gotta get'im ta speed up so we can get'im up ta speed' line.
And I like the idea of the Watering Hole - a bar that caters specifically for non-humans seems like a very good idea for HQ, considering the variety in species within the PPC.
I would definitely not try to put all three of the Trolls into the same long piece. It would be overkill, to be sure.
I also like that line. I figured, part of Tuff's dialect is that he is several paragraphs behind everyone else, and I needed a way to show that the other characters are aware of that.
As for the Watering Hole, it is not just for non-humans. Martin, the owner, is human, after all. I imagine there are some human agents that go there to prove themselves to their fellow agents by doing shots of Water (the substance the bar is actually named for). I wouldn't recommend it, myself, but "agents will be agents," as they say. The clientele is mostly non-human, though.
-Phobos
I also like the "You're here because-" / "You told us there'd be cookies" exchange. I don't envy Barid for chairing that meeting.
I assumed that the Watering Hole would cater for humans as well as non-humans, although after re-reading my comment I'll admit that's not clear. The idea of human agents going for a drink there just to prove that they're tough enough to do so is cool - I can just see a hapless newbie wandering in by accident, completely unaware of the reputation the place has, and walking out with a reputation as an utter badass for being 'brave' enough to go in there on his first day.
Very nice. I look forward to seeing these characters built upon.
I think you use dialects fairly well. Barid's was a bit questionable (dropping the aitches from each here felt like a small step too far) but otherwise I thought I worked pretty well. A good way to know if you've pushed a dialect is too much is if your beta mentions having to sound each line out phonetically.
I was actually feeling like dropping those "h"s was too much. Guess I should have gone with my gut on that one, huh?
Anyway, of the new characters, you will probably be seeing Monath first. I've got something in the works with her right now.
Thanks for the feedback.
-Phobos
But only for what Monath Clokka says. Astounding enough, I understand most of this other language that only vaguely resembles English.
During my short visit in World of Warcraft several years ago, I never met a NPC troll. Do they really talk like this?
HG
In World of Warcraft, the Trolls all talk like Barid. In game, they tend to not spell out the dialect, though. It is a Jamaican accent, though they would claim it is a Troll accent.
Monath is a Troll from a different continuum: Homestuck. For her, just switch all the "7"s for "t"s and you should be able to follow from there. Also, there is an extra comma in every sentence she says. This is all in keeping with the rules of her world, and can take some getting used to.
So, her first line is: "-- you, 7oLd us 7here'd be cookies!"
Which translates to: "-- you told us there'd be cookies!"
Her second line: "7ha7's, jus7 gross."
Becomes: "That's just gross."
Homestuck Trolls are weird.
-Phobos
Rina kicked her feet up on the console, being careful to keep her clunky boots away from any buttons. She yawned and raked her fingers through her short hair.
"You know," her partner, Randa, said from the floor, "When you asked me to join the PPC, I didn't think it would be so... boring."
Rina made a face. "Just give it some time, okay? Why don't you go play Solitaire or something?"
"I don't know how to play Solitaire."
"What about War? That always takes forever; I'd be willing to play..."
Randa shrugged and rolled over so she was lying on her back. "I can't believe they didn't give us any beds," she muttered.
"They?"
"The freaky talking plants."
Rina stifled a snort. "Well, you can't really blame them, can you? It's not like the S.O. needs a bed." She paused. "Although, considering the majority of agents use beds, you'd think we'd get at least cots or something." She looked around their RC, but the only things to see were the Generic Material of the walls and floor and the weapons rack.
Rina yawned again, vaguely thinking about taking a nap. Of course, the Universal Laws of Narrative Irony decided to manifest.
[BEEEEEP]
"Ack!" Rina sat bolt upright and swung her feet off the console. "Hey, Randa! We've got our first mission!"
"Really? Awesome! What is it?" Randa peered at the screen, not noticing her partner's mouth fall open. Randa somehow managed to groan and giggle at the same time. "Seriously? This one hatched from a dragon egg?"
"Bwah?" Rina could only gape at the readout.
Randa glanced at Rina, a frown creasing her forehead. "What's wrong?"
"They're screwing with me. It's the only explanation," Rina muttered, rubbing her eyes and double-checking that she hadn't been seeing things. She glared at the ceiling. "This isn't funny!" She yelled.
"Rina, you're not making any sense," Randa said irritably. "What is going on?"
Rina gestured at the screen. "I- I- I wrote this! When I was ten!" she said miserably. "Jade Leanna Dragonheart, hatched from a Hungarian Horntail's egg, has a dragon tail and wings and is immune to fire. She can breathe it, too." She groaned and sank back in the chair, wondering how difficult it would be to smash the console.
A burst of laughter made her look up. "Stop laughing!" she snapped.
"Sorry," Randa said, gasping for air. "Just- you wrote- dragon tail-!" Randa was positively howling with laughter at that point.
Rina snarled several choice expletives as she stood and stomped to the weapons rack. Randa's laughter was cut off when Rina thrust an axe into her arms. "We're going to kill this abomination as soon as possible, and we will make it painful. Torture's unfortunately out of the question, so we'll have to be... creative." She slung a quiver over her shoulder and grabbed a recurve bow. "And stop laughing!"
Randa bit the inside of her mouth, her shoulder shaking with silent guffaws as Rina opened a portal and stormed through.
(Unfortunately, yes, I did in fact write this Sue. Thank god I only ever wrote one chapter, but it was a doozy. Ugh.)
This is a fairly solid little piece. I liked the acknowledgement that yes, physic human-sized plants are vaguely freaky. It's easy to forget how strange that would seem when writing for more experienced agents.
The biggest weakness to my mind is how similar Rina and Randa sound. There wasn't enough in their voices to really distinguish them from each other. Keep in mind that the vast majority of any missions you might write in the future are going to consist of these two bantering with each other and reacting to badfic. Fortunately, repeated practice should help you both develop a separate voice for each agent.
The only other thing I would note is there are a couple paragraphs with some slight repetition. We know Randa was gasping for air, we can thus assume she was the one howling with laughter.
Good job, all in all.
I figured the characters would sound kind of similar... Though Randa and I have talked about little things like our agents' first day at the PPC (if we get permission), I wrote this without Randa's input on her agent. Randa herself is a LOT quirkier than me, so it should be interesting. (She's thinking about fighting with a titanium yo-yo complete with steel cord. Not sure how practical that is, but it'd be kind of funny...)
Hmm... I was trying to convey that Randa just wouldn't. Stop. Laughing., but looking back... Yeah, it is kind of repetitive. I'll have to work on that.
Thanks so much for the concrit!
I couldn’t spot a single mistake. But don’t be too proud now; I’m not a native speaker and our “teacher” may still have to say something. Also story wise, it works well as an introduction of the agents. But I wonder why they didn’t get beds and how they sleep. I expect you to elaborate when you get Permission and continue to write this story arc.
One tip, though. Leaving empty lines between the paragraphs makes your text more readable; otherwise it may be difficult to determine whether you intend to start a new paragraph when a line incidentally ends near the right margin. And you don’t need to save on paper here, right?
I don’t often have or take the time to welcome people here, and I have hard times finding welcome gifts, because a gift should be something meaningful. So I gave you a review.
Welcome on Board.
HG
Sorry about the lack of paragraph distinctions... I usually post from my phone (yay for limited computer time) and didn't realize the formatting would be different. Sorry. *wince*
Naw, don't worry about it. I felt like a total noob (insert obligatory obvious statement here) when I realized there weren't any easily noticed paragraph breaks...
And thank you for the review! That really made my day. :D Randa and I didn't get beds because HQ just kinda forgot. They'll be there when (if) we kill my Sue.
Actually, now that I think about it, how should I phrase that last paragraph? If Randa and I eventually get permission to take missions, our agents will be pretty much our self inserts, but there's still that distinction that I'm not sure how to make. ^_^
one of my agents will be a self insert. Whenever I talk about us, I am “I” and he is "Agent Hieronymus", or "still-not-Agent Hieronymus" when it’s not clear from the context that I need to get Permission before he can be an Agent.
But when I refer to my other agent’s "creator", it is not entirely clear who this might be. I still have to figure out what are the differences between mine and Agent Hieronymus’ experience with her.
HG
Knock, knock.
“Come in!” called Androia, putting down her book and looking for something to use for a bookmark..
“Expletive not translated,” muttered a deep voice from the direction of the door. Androia let the book go and turned to gaze at the stocky male human in the open doorway. The human gazed back with wide eyes.
“I beg your pardon,” said Androia, “I could not hear you clearly. What did you say?”
“Uhm, wrong language,” explained the human, distorting his face into an awkward grin.“I meant to say good morning, or whatever time it may be in this corner of Headquarters.” As far as Androia could determine through all the facial hair, the movement of his lips did not match the sound of his words, but she was used to this; very view agents spoke her native language.
“Good morning, sir,” answerded Androia with a little frown, “it is short after breakfast time for me, and incidentally this is also the announced arrival time for my new partner. So, may I assume – no, you are not possibly a field agent?”
“Well, this sodden plant gave me a potted cactus flash patch and told me to go to this arr zee,” growled the man, “so what would you think? Having second thoughts about my age? It’s the grey beard, right?”.
“Come in then, and forgive me if I were unpolite. I should not have jumped to conclusions. I do not know whether you are what I assume you are, and this colour my not have any significance.”
Surprisingly, Androia could watch the man’s face colour change to match the natural colour of her skin, just before he turned to close the door. “Expletive girl, expletive, human enough,” he murmured. “You didn’t need to step on the other toe. Okay, I’ll calm down, it’s forgiven, you couldn’t know.” When he turned back to face Androia, his skin had paled and the awkward grin was on his face again. “May we start this all over again?” he offered.
“Welcome to response centre one thousand nine hundred fifty three,” replied Androia, not eager to push one of his berserk buttons again. “My name is Androia Avatar. I am a nigth elf from World of Warcraft. Is it usual to shake hands in your culture?”
The human stepped forward to grip Androia’s outstretched hand, and then held it a bit firmer and longer than would have been appropriate. “I’m glad to meet you,” he sang out, “and I’m sure we will be a good team.”
“This is still to be seen,” responded the night elf. “What, did you say, is your name?” Her mysterious new partner let go off her hand and shrank back.
“Uh, there’s a little problem with this,” he stated. “If you don’t mind, I would like to be anonymous.”
“Anonymous? That would be ridiculous,” retorted Androia.
“No, not ridiculous, the name would be Anonymous.”
“I refuse to work with an anonymous partner!”
“Ah, well then, if you insist on misspelling my name,” the male gave in, “you may call me Hieronymus. That’s what the Marquis registered anyway.”
“Agent Hieronymus,” declared Androia, “we need to come to an agreement immediately. If we will be partners, we need to be honest to each other. You have already lied to me at least once.”
“When did I lie to you?”
“There is no wrong language for a Universal Translator. You clearly did not say good morning when you entered this room. I will not insist on a translation, nor will I ask why you want to hide your real name. But you have to explain what you meant when you said you were human enough. When we are in a badfic together, I need to know your abilities and limits.”
Androia had to take breath, and Hieronymus used this pause to interject “I didn’t ask what your abilities and limits are.”
“You may look me up in the World of Warcraft Wiki; I am a level ten druid, specializing in Healing. Now, what are you?”
“Okay, I will tell, but it’s a long story.”
“Then you should start soon.”
“Well, the essence is that I lived in the PPC archives for some time, until one of DoSAT’s Hollywood Hackers tracked me down and they got me out. They say I’m a digital clone of my original self, and I cannot go home to world one, because there is another me at OFUA, and when Miss Kitty sends her students home at the end of the year, there will be two of us.”
“That is a bad fate,” empathized Androia, “but how did you get into the archives?”
“They also threatened me that I might not be able to survive in a world were narrative laws don’t precede scientific laws,” continued Hieronymus, ignoring the question as well as the implications that mentioning his enrolment at the Official Fanfiction University of Azeroth had given away. “Oh, and the DIA tried to neuralize me before they realized that they cannot send me home, so I actually don’t remember my real name.”
“This is – “ started Androia, but she never ended the sentence, because this was the moment the console went BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP.
________________________________________________________________________
Author’s notes:
The provisional claim of RC 1953 is pending Permission.
Agent Hieronymus would speak English, but swear in German, if there were no Universal Translators. I imagine that Androia hears everything he says in her native language, so she wouldn’t know the difference.
In a scene written from Hieronymus’ POV, he would obviously know which language he is using. But trying to speak English and only swear in German would make no sense when he knows that everything is translated for the audience’s convenience, and it would probably break the fourth wall, because the only conceivable reason to do so anyway would be Hieronymus’ attempt to keep his story K-rated for the readers. But then he is wall-breaking anyway?
So here is a question: Are Universal Translators smart enough to know that, when a person says some words in a language that is not their working language, this should not be translated? Which, in accord with the general mischief of PPC-technology, means that, if Hieronymus swears too much, the UT would no longer realize that Hieronymus native language is not his working language, and would start to translate?
“<a href="http://ppc.wikia.com/wiki/UniversalTranslator">Of course, they sort of take the fun out of swearing in foreign languages (though some Translators appear to be governed by the Laws of Narrative Comedy in this regard).” Yes, works for me.
You do a good job communicating character through speech in this piece. Spelling out RC phonetically is a particularly nice touch. My favorite bit was probably the exchange of "Anonymous? That would be ridiculous." "No, not ridiculous, the name would be Anonymous." I was immediately reminded of the "Surely you can't be serious" gag from Airplane!.
I like your take on universal translators. You bring up things (like how lip movement wouldn't match the words being said) that aren't typically thought about. Still, I think you'll find that fictional universal translators have a long history of not translating foreign curse words. But the Laws of Narrative Comedy should work as a decent cover. They certainly did for me when I had Gremlin curse in what probably wasn't very good Chinese in an old interlude.
I was a bit confused by the reaction Hieronymus had before he went to close the door. Not by the intent -- he's obviously sensitive about being a clone -- but by what he specifically said and how quickly he calmed down. It just felt awkward in how it was staged. Maybe if you had stretched that exchange out for a few more sentences; had a bit more of a heated back and forth.
You should only follow 'said so-and-so' with a comma if the dialogue that follows it is part of the same sentence that preceded 'said so-and-so.' There are a few run-ons (the paragraphs beginning "I beg your pardon" and "Good morning, sir") caused by your using commas where you should use period. And while people sometimes do speak in run-on sentences, these particular run-ons sound a bit off.
Some minor things:
-- Spelling: “ 'Good morning, sir,' answered Androia with a little frown."
-- You are missing a quotation mark at the beginning of the eighth paragraph.
-- There should be a period after 'interject' in the twenty-first paragraph.
-- Spelling: "...the implications that mentioning his enrollment at the Official Fanfiction University of Azeroth had given away."
Enrolment is British English, and this is what I learned at school. But I read a lot of American stuff since then, so I am often not aware (or don’t even care) which language I am writing. Since my main fandoms (Harry Potter and LOTR) are British, I would prefer British English for writing in the PPC, but I have still to figure out how to tell spell check that “this text is not meant to be in American English”.
The period missing after 'interject' may have wandered up to the end of the second paragraph. Didn’t you see it there?
Is the beginning of the eight paragraph: “Come in then, and forgive me ...”?
I don’t like this one paragraph myself. Your challenge got me by surprise and I wanted to put this up before the thread is halfway down the page. So I was too hasty again and will have to do some more work on it, but this is no excuse for three SPaG errors.
HG
I really liked the contrast between the two characters; I can easily imagine Androia getting fed up with Hieronymus' attitude. Funnily enough, though, what made me grin while reading this was Hieronymus' pronunciation of RC. That was a nice touch.
I really like this scene. You've set up some nice backstory secrets to discover as these two work together. You've got a nice voice on Androia, too; very formal, which works well next to Hieronymous's more relaxed tone. I also liked how you handled the swearing in this. It is a nice little joke, which keeps the rating at family friendly levels, and you can guess what he actually said, if you are so inclined.
Overall, well done. I look forward to eventually seeing what these two get up to.
-Phobos
I like dialogue. Of all the elements of storytelling, it's always come the most naturally for me. I can just about hear my characters' voices when I'm writing them, and it's fun sounding out particular word choices.
I've got a piece of prequel that I think fits the bill. It was already written, but I've tidied it up a little. The rest of the story will be even more dialogue-heavy, once all the necessary descriptions are in place, but I'm not going to be able to write it in time to post here. So, here's the beginning.
---
Late 2003
The young twenty-something standing at the counter of the nurses' station was tall—quite a bit taller than Head Nurse Suzine. She had to tilt her head back to look him in the face. It made his thin, slanting eyebrows seem even more arched than they already were, and in her professional opinion, they were approaching Elven Eyebrow o' Doom levels.
"I'm sorry," she said, "but we just don't take agents. It's the Department of Fictional Psychology for a reason, you know. Why don't you try Medical?"
"Because that's not what I need," said the young man. He had a clipped way of speaking, as though each word were a cut-out from a different magazine. The fingers of his left hand drummed an erratic sequence into his thigh. "My body is fine. They don't want to see me. They have more important things to do."
Suzine was not a fan of the disdain with which he spoke the last sentence. "Look, if you think you can stand there and insult our line of work while you insist we make an exception for you, you've got—"
"Hey, what's up?"
Suzine turned around to see who had entered the station. "Oh, it's you, Robinson." The intern, a brown-haired, green-eyed woman a little older than the young man, was a pain in Suzine's neck. "What do you need? Make it quick."
"Nurse Dewstan sent me to tell you they were able to release Mulder, but we've got a Spike and Angel situation over in 204 and Legolas is back again." She sounded bored, and immediately broke eye contact with Suzine to peer at the young man. "Who's this?"
That was her problem: she never knew when to mind her own business. "Just an agent who thinks he's somehow more deserving of our time than everyone else in the multiverse. It's not your concern, Robinson. Tell Nathon—"
"But maybe I can help," said the insufferable woman. "Come on—you don't trust me with the canons, so let me handle this kid. What does he want?"
"I'm right here, you know." The young man folded his arms.
"He declined to say," Suzine said archly.
"I don't want to talk to anyone who's not going to help me," said the young man.
"Suzine, it isn't as though you'd be taking me away from anything important," said Robinson. "They don't need me."
Suzine breathed heavily through her nose, counting to five. Then she threw up her hands. "Fine! Robinson, you can see him in your office. Just stay out of my way, both of you."
"Great!" She beamed and practically skipped out the side door to the station. She tried to take the young man's hand, but he jerked it away. "Well, this way, then," she said, spirits somewhat dampened.
"I want a complete workup, Robinson," Suzine called, leaning out the front window. "No shirking, no funny business!"
"No problem!" Entirely too flippant for Suzine's liking, the girl waved over her shoulder as she led the young man away to C-14.
---
~Neshomeh
I'm with you 100% when it comes to dialogue. Sometimes I'll speak lines aloud as my characters (or at least, in terrible impersonations of my characters) just to hear how they would scan. Sure, it's lead to people questioning my overall sanity, but it's all for the good of the craft!
This piece is pretty solid overall. It's definitely got me interested in seeing the full story when it comes out. I definitely got some sense of each of the three character's personalities through their vocal choices. Nume has a odd preciseness about him, Suzine is a bit spiky towards others, and Jennifer is cheerful and energetic.
There were, to my mind, a few issues. For one: "Suzine was not a fan of the disdain with which he spoke the last sentence." This line feels like it leans a bit more towards telling rather than showing. I would have liked to see Nume's disdain in his speech by itself. Maybe something like: "They don't want to see me. They have more... important things to do."
When Jennifer says "They don't need me." Who is they and why are they deserving of italics? If you're referring to the canons, the point was already made that she isn't trusted with them.
Finally, a little thing that's more about the PPC than dialogue. According to the wiki, Medical gave up treating the mental issues of deranged agents (or rather, gave up handing out Bleeprin like it was candy) in early 2003 HST. But your story has FicPsych still not addressing the needs of agents in late 2003. I understand that those dates are extremely vague, but there's still an apparent gap. I guess it can be easily explained away by bureaucratic hemming and hawing. Still, something to consider.
that it is really hard to think of something to say other than
(insert obligatory positive feedback here, because I’m really bad at this)
I look forward to reading more about Jenni’s early days in FicPsych. Should I recognize the young man?
HG
http://ppc.wikia.com/wiki/Supernumerary
Neshomeh had said the entry was a prequel to her stories, and the young man certainly sounds like Supernumerary. Plus, Supernumerary has been occasionally described as resembling Spock, which would explain the arched eyebrows that were mentioned at the beginning.