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It may be considered helpful to have the links to Bramandin's Permission requests, since she specifically discusses them in Neshomeh's email chain as an example of how 'Bramandin' was treated differently to 'zdimensia'.

Request 1 (Feb '16, denied by JulyFlame)

Request 2 (April '16, denied by Neshomeh)

Request 3 (May '16, denied by Desdendelle)

Request 4 (June '16, granted by JulyFlame)

And, for comparison's sake, zdimensia's Permission Requests:

Request 1 (June '14, denied by Neshomeh)

Request 2 (July '14, denied by Delta Juliette-by-any-other-name)

Request 3 (August '14, denied by... banning, basically)

hS

Are you referring to the past year,

or years ago and this thread?

I'm getting a lot of it is your fault that you are angry at us, and it's your fault that we are angry at you.

Bramandin from the last year wasn't a facade. That's me when I'm somewhat calm.

zdimensia is partly myth because you wouldn't understand her motivations, which were never malicious.

Wait until the dust settles and see how the future goes.

It's been said that I forced you to ban me. Perhaps it is my fault for not seeing other recourses.

Yes, that is satisfactory, and it helps.

I'll be the first to say that no one wants you to kill yourself. We would be very upset if you did that.

I'm glad you're prepared to get help if you need it.

~Neshomeh

I actually do want to speak less.

There is a lot of anger right now. Wait for the dust to settle.

Are you referring to zdimensia, or Bramandin?

Neshome didn't do wrong. I think that hospital staff will also ask it that bluntly.

She did write FicPsych. Maybe she's done a lot of research?

She also has some insight on how I don't do subtle well.

Think of Drax (red tattoos) from Guardians of the Galaxy.

I still feel like every person here would live happily ever after if I killed myself.

I'm not actively feeling suicidal at the moment.

I am prepared to go to the hospital, but I don't want to.

Is that a satisfactory answer?

I understand what you're asking, and why. But... this doesn't feel like the sort of question you'd ask someone you thought might actually be contemplating suicide, because of how badly someone in that state might take it.

Or something like that.

hS

zdimensia was banned. She broke the ban and, thus, should be permabanned (I understand now that we should have been explicit on that point when the IP ban was put in place). Bramandin is zdimensia (who came back under false pretenses to avoid being banned) and, thus, should be permabanned.

Also, I see a lot of people saying "but Bramandin is trying". I do not see anything of the sort. I see the same behavior that we have always seen. The "trying" was a facade that fell away when they posted this thread. This is how she really feels. She was upset because, in her mind, we were silencing her from saying how terrible we all are so we could repent. She still takes no responsibility for their bad behavior, and instead are waiting for the PPC community to apologize for intentionally inciting her to behave poorly.

But the community did not force zdimensia to break her ban. We didn't force her to create a sock puppet to get around the ban. We didn't force her to, by her own account, attempt to manipulate the permission process. We did not force her to lie repeatedly to the community. She chose to do all of that.

I'm personally done with this, and vote for an explicit permanent ban.

-Phobos

Are you, or are you not, feeling suicidal at this time?

You started off this thread by telling us you were feeling suicidal, but here you say you're feeling better than you have in a long time. Which is it? Or, if you were feeling suicidal when you first posted, but your situation has changed since then, please tell us that.

~Neshomeh

My laptop is literally coming apart at the seams. As happens with reasonably old laptop, the screen hinge is coming apart and taking the entire screen case with it. I'm not technical enough to fix it and my usual repairs place (which was the holy trinity of fast, cheap, and good) has now somehow turned into a comic book shop. This is not conducive to a stable and unpanicked Scapegrace.

I... can't afford a new one. I just can't. And that means either swiping Mel's tablet or using my garbage oblong carrot Windows Phone. Yeah, I'm one of the six people still using those. We have a support group every Wednesday.

The upshot of all this is that I may be inactive for a few weeks, maybe more. I mean, I might post sporadically, but nothing too long.

See you all later. x

I concede the point because I think Neshomeh is right, on further though, which in itself means agreeing to abide by the stated definition.

Since this came up in Nesh's transcript, and I remember it as a bugbear for zdimensia as well, I thought I'd explain why people (PGs) have seemed inconsistent about whether you can write missions before you get Permission.

The thing is, Permission is a torturous doom-laden trial a filter. It is intended to filter out writers who cannot write PPC fiction well enough that it should be included in the canon. When you show us that you can do that - when you post your prompts and get a Permission Granted - that means that we think you can do it.

But it doesn't mean that you retroactively could always write well enough. If you've already been denied Permission once, it even means that you explicitly can't write well enough, though we hope you soon will be able to.

So let's say you take your Permission Denied, and you write half a dozen missions. Along the way, you learn about your characters, about the PPC, about writing in general. You improve. And when you apply for Permission again, you get it, easily.

And then you post the first mission you wrote. The one that came right after you were denied Permission - or, heck, the one that came between your first and second denials. The mission that was written at a time when you were not ready to write for the PPC.

Does that clear up the confusion? The answers Bramandin received were answers to both halves of the question:

1) You can write whatever you want "for the drawer" (as Neshomeh said). PPC missions, heartwarming interludes, Flower-murder, hardcore smut. Whatever. It's your keyboard, your time, your computer.

2) You cannot post anything that doesn't meet the standards of the PPC. And that explicitly includes anything written before the PPC Community - through the Permission Givers it voted to put its trust and confidence in - judged you ready, able, and knowledgeable enough to write for the PPC canon.

What zdimensia seemed to want to do was 'pre-write' her missions. She never gave the impression of seeing Permission as a test of her writing ability, but just as an arbitrary hoop to jump through.

It isn't. It's there for a reason. And that reason precludes writing for publication without it.

hS

When we are plain about what we expect from you, particularly with regard to your conduct, we get called every name under the sun and accused of being bullies.

Yeah, sorry, I remain utterly unconvinced of your victimhood.

It does not seem from the email chain that Bramandin "lied and manipulated her way to a Permission grant" (except in that she did not disclose her previous ban). She certainly lied through and manipulated the Permission process; see here for the moment I got so fed up with her 'oh my character cannot do any of the prompts' line and fed her three random prompts which could literally happen to anyone - but Permission was granted based on July's opinion of her work and behaviour. See here.

There are ways to cheat the Permission process. One would be to plagiarise something and present it as your writing sample, or get a disgruntled ex-PPCer to do so. Another would be to just... lie and say you got Permission ages back. I would also count having the person who grants you Permission act as beta/cowriter, or anything else which means their objectivity is compromised. Bramandin, so far as Neshomeh's chat logs go, didn't do any of those things.

hS

Bram is a (possibly formerly) banned user operating under a sockpuppet. hS's post has all the relevant details. This didn't come up in the Grand Conciliary because it was thought to be resolved.

Right. Huinesoron's proposal included a clause that violation of the 12-month ban would lead to a permanent ban. No objection was raised by respondents to that post.

On the other hand, Phobos's survey, which was the method used to vote on the ban, contains no such clarifying clause. Since Phobos wasn't one of the people who replied to hS... I don't know.

My inclination, given Bramandin's poor reception to constructive criticism on her missions and her recent harassment of Iximaz, is to declare the ban permanent due to the violation, particularly after reading over Neshomeh's correspondence with her. However, I'm torn. Bramandin has been making an effort to improve, it seems, and she's certainly not as bad as she was when posting as zdimensia. As such, my mind could be changed.

As a final note, directly to Bramandin: I'm autistic, too. It's not an excuse. You can learn to be better, but here is not the place to teach you the skills you need. If you are to remain, you need to speak less and listen more, and continue to make a concerted effort to be better every day.

Can someone move Kelly into the out-of-continuity for me?

I think in addition to the rule of not manipulating the process, there needs to be an addition to the FAQ. "What happens if someone has trouble with the permission process?"

I think the answer should be that the problem will be examined by the board. In a lot of cases, a little flexibility should fix the problem.

Someone else said before permission that they would drop an idea, only to write it into a story later.

I'll go back later to tweak the permission page to be presented in a less confusing manner without fundamentally changing it.

I also felt that during the permission process, some requests were added. I have an essay on my vampire's powers. Also, I got vague feedback about wanting to know more about my vampire; she wasn't the POV character and doesn't talk about herself.

I do think that having details about a character's powers is important.