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Tomash should be allowed to post. She is gone voluntarily, after all.

http://technodann.github.io/PPC-board-2.0/archive/2014/07b.html#post-100166

"I couldn't find a prompt that would work with my main team,"

"I finally found something to wedge in as a random prompt"

This was after I complained that I didn't want to use Samantha and Larry and was ignored. I can't find the link right now.

---

36 Permission Prompts" document, which you must have looked at in order to come to the conclusion that you couldn't find a random prompt you liked.

Not liking the prompt was language from the FAQ, and not what I was saying. I was afraid of what would happen if I corrected her preconception.

---

I was asked to use my main team, and only later was it revealed that I could choose which team I wanted to use.

So this is basically just a series of reactions I had while reading:

I like the interruption of the rap!

...PRUSSIA. You should bring in Prussia to spork. I didn't get that far in the show, but I saw him used for sporking once, and it was amazing.

...oh, good, Prussia is actually in the fic. That would make his potential sporking presence better and, uh, sense-having. Wait, which of the kids is he essentially turning into? He wouldn't make sense with any of them, except maybe a teenaged Marauder or the Weasley twins, but--oh dear. This should be... interesting.

...Malfoy. Prussia is Malfoy. What.

Go Ron go! In fact, please keep talking. For the entire fic. That would be lovely.

...Hungary, dear... Hermione does not like flying.

Yeah, I give up. There's no sense in this fic except for Ron and, sometimes, Ginny. I like "you uncultured ferret" from Ami in the sporking, though.

Ooh, you've brought England in! From the OFU, no less!

Well, that was fun. And 'Monstery Science Theater' was well-placed.

Overall, pretty fun. I'd love to see...well, just about any of the countries come in to spork. Maybe people from HP or unrelated (but similarly themed?) canons, too, if that's an option. Also, might as well third that suggestion of that one country with the polar bear...

Good job!

~Zing

Maybe. I've forgotten. But the polar bears are really cute, ne?

:)

More seriously, I'm about to check out the MST itself. I'll try to leave a comment for the authors soon!

~Zing

(Yeah, this is the post I mentioned wanting to make--if there was another, I'm no longer sure what it was.)

Furthermore, I'm given to understand that July hasn't been the only target of this, meaning Iximaz's friends taking it upon themselves to have a go at whoever she has a beef with, whether behind their backs or to their faces. [...]

I think there's a fine line between commiserating with a friend over something you don't agree with and being a jerk to people you don't like. Not everyone has to be best friends with everyone else, that's fine, but if not getting along with someone spills over into actual attacks on them, that line has definitely been crossed.

As someone who has been visibly close to Iximaz for what I believe is now a few years, I feel it's important that I say, in public here (irregardless of how many people are still reading this thread by now), that to my knowledge I have never, and will never, do this. I try to hold myself back from situations when I'm angry until such time as I can think a little more clearly; I am very much not in the habit of going around attacking people. I sincerely hope that should I ever have a problem with someone I would bring it to the Board (or, if I felt it could be resolved easily, in private) as calmly and clearly as I could manage. I also hope that I have done so in the past; if I have failed in that, I sincerely apologise now, and hope that I did the same at the time.

I have certainly done the commiseration thing. It's a pretty common thing to do with your friends, even in cases when you don't agree with their opinion or you just want to be an ear for them to rant to. One can agree that a situation sucks and try to provide support despite one's own opinion, in most times. But I would like to make it clear that I have never gone about attacking people because someone else was upset, and that if I were ever to call someone out about their behavior towards friends of mine I intend it to be with having hopefully heard something from both sides, and most likely presented on the Board and as rationally as possible, unless I felt it could be resolved off-Board.

If I have something important and complex (or potentially controversial) to say, whether it's on the Board or in a chat, I generally read it over and let it sit and read it over again. I do not particularly enjoy arguments, and I find it abhorrent in most cases to curse out or go after someone.

I'm certainly not perfect. Human beings don't tend to be. But I strive to express myself carefully when I'm angry or upset, particularly online and in public online. And I apologized for any time when I've failed to do so, especially if I hurt someone by it.

I doubt that this post was specifically directed towards me. However, given that I've visibly fallen into the category of 'Iximaz's friends' for a while now, I wanted to make it clear that, to my knowledge, I have never joined in behavior like this, and that I have no intention of starting.

~Zing

The abuse that I am talking about is strictly in regards to zdimensia.

As far as I can tell, everything Bramandin except for this thread has no mistreatment, only misunderstandings. I make mistakes, no matter how hard I try. I don't get connotation or social cues.

I think that the Ix thing has been handled to people's satisfaction?

I do need to work on following concrit more,
how to accept it better,
and of being patient for betas.

...the definition in Neshomeh's post? Or just that you concede the point? Or something different?

I agree with Nesh's comments on what to actually do when mutually avoiding someone to the point where I've just realized that the reply post that I set aside last night to edit or discard said almost exactly the same things. I'd really like clarity on what's going on here, for everyone's sake. The very last thing we need is more miscommunication.

~Zing

That being, Permission revoked on grounds of obtaining it when not only she wasn't supposed to be asking in the first place thanks to the ban, but also lying about the characters and manipulating the process would be reasonable to me. Tomash's added caveat that zdimensia be allowed to try again in the future—after she's proven herself trustworthy enough to ask Permission—is acceptable as well.

I'd be in much more favor of just saying "No, you willfully broke your ban twice and lied and tricked your way into regaining (misplaced) trust, so you should leave." But if that were not possible, then Tomash's suggestions are fine by me.

Admittedly, I have been gone a long time, and have read through a lot of this as a crash course, so I am getting a rather condensed view, but I haven't seen anything but attack after attack from Bramandin against either the entire community or individuals within it. The Grand Concilliary is still open, and as was stated within it many times, it was the place to address grievances with the goal of not having threads like this one that bring up the past again and again. Bramandin posted in it several times, so they saw it. Why a new dramatic thread here a few days after that one fell off the front page?

And it is the same accusations that have been present in every single Bramandin drama thread, in which they vaguely and with very, very confusing words claim that the entire PPC is mean to them and owes them an apology. Vague accusations of bullying. Demands that everyone apologize to them. Excuses that being autistic made them do it (I, personally, find that to be a highly offensive excuse for bad behavior. Especially bad behavior that has been repeatedly and explicitly explained as bad behavior). Excuses that it was actually the other members of the community who were behaving badly. Just a lot of excuses and claims that they are the victim. Every single time. Including the last one with Iximaz just a week or two ago.

I am confused by most of the posts in this thread by Bramandin. They objectively do not make sense, so I actually have very little idea of what it is they are accusing the PPC of other than them being the victim of the PPC.

I am not putting forth a vote for anything, but also I do not understand the statements that Bramandin is behaving better when this thread looks very much like all the others.

I'm not trying to be offensive, and I apologize if anything in here is. Please point it out to me, so I can not do it in the future, but also, please someone explain this to me.

Just to avoid ambiguity, everything other than this sentence is Tomash's words.

"Subject: My thoughts and proposals

From what I can tell, Bram is working on her behavior. We've forgiven a lot (or, in the recent case, handed out a formal last chance instead of striking Bram down with a banhammer) because of what appeared to be genuine attempts at improvement. Adding one count of ban evasion to the list of things we'll be willing to understandably forgive doesn't seem like too much of a stretch. So count this as (unless other people or a closer look at the archives convince me otherwise) a vote against the continuation of the permaban.

One of my secondary reasons for that vote is that this is partly analogous to Scapegrace's situation, which has also been marked by problems interacting with the community and (from what I can tell) genuine attempts at working on mental-illness-induced behavior issues.

That being said, I've read over the emails Neshomeh provided, and I see there that Bramadin admitted to lying and manipulating her way to a Permission grant. From what I can tell, the only reason that we don't have a rule about that is that we didn't expect anyone to do it (same as, for example, doxxing). For that, I propose Permission Revoked going forward, without any restrictions on re-applying by the usual process. Let me be clear, this revocation is NOT for "bad writing" and NOT for "being bad at taking concrit", since that's a precedent I'd not like to see set.

Permission being revoked means that Bram is still welcome to write PPC stuff privately (and get it beta'd), and to post things that don't require Permission (Permission requests, most RPs, and so on), but that she's not to represent any of that work as canonical/official stories set in the PPC universe.

Now, to Bramadin:

From what I can tell, you've accused the community of being abusive or bullies, and I'm not sure what it it we've done that seems abusive. Having a Permission process? Having a Permission process that is extremely confusing to you? Not understanding/listening to you? I just don't know. I would appreciate a concrete list of events (links and/or quotes would be nice, but I won't say they're required) where we were, from your perspective, abusive, preferably including what about that interaction was a bad thing.

Second, a lot of what you're saying isn't being understood. In a lot of the posts you've made here, I don't understand what message you are trying to communicate with your words. You've said that you're using a lot of "parallels" to try to communicate (if this is what I'm thinking of, my name for that sort of thing is "private metaphors"). They are, in most cases, not being understood, in the sense that they're not conveying much of a message at all. Also, in some of your posts, you're using pronouns (or pronoun-like things) in a way that makes it impossible for us to tell what you're referring to. For example, "the scowlers" in your post on racism.. I'm still not sure who you're talking about there.

Lastly, I'm going to echo various people who are saying that we don't have the resources to help you thrive here, and that it might be best for you to leave, at least temporarily.

Now, on a meta note, can I post here same as in the Concilliary, since this is the same sort of thread (namely, a discussion of bad behavior with possible votes)?

- Tomash"

I'll yield the floor on this issue. It's not a terribly productive thing to argue about, anyway.

Still pretty much the same mate! Otherwise... well, you can see down there by yourself...

Anyway welcome back Ancient One!

So, several years ago, I was here. (Except under a different name, that I've long since forgotten but that's another story.) So I'm TVTropes trawling, spot the PPC, and decide to pop back in to check.

Is everything still the same (relatively speaking)? Agents still underpaid and overworked? An HR system run like Nelson's Navy (on Saturday we're willing if you'll take the Flower's Shilling, to make an Agent of any one of you)? Getting leave a combination of threatening your boss and acquiring new Agents?

I'm completely unaware of what I did that needs apologies for. Perhaps it is a case of someone saying "they did nothing wrong" and I believed them?

I don't remember having a conversation with you over PM.

Perhaps the "arguing back" you're seeing is me looking for more information, or making sure I understood? Someone said "go back to these and acknowledge the concrit" and it looks to me like I did. Maybe I didn't say enough?

Despite me yelling "I said I'll try harder next time" I recognize that they were trying to help.

I think that lately, I have improved.

Perhaps Skarmory could email me some really hard advice. IIRC, you have a diagnoses.

She seems like an interesting character. I'll bookmark that other one too. Yay!

Sue VS Sue isn't the only game I'm going to make, but it's probably going to be one of the first, since a side-view platformer would be easier to code than most other things I've got planned. I'm also going to do a few animations - in fact, the reason I started posting to the board was to ask about an animated series set in the PPC continuum, starring two characters who function as "fanfic's hired mercenaries". (My parents don't like this group, so I gotta lie low. :P)

Anyway, I don't have much else to say. Looking forward to hearing your reply.

-Twistey

Skarmory, I can't quite remember exactly what went on between you and Bram. Other than going off on me for being self-diagnosed, and I should re-read what you actually said and what I actually said.

I invite you to talk to me and be vulgar. We may fight and hurt each other's feelings, but I won't take it personally if you won't.

I did comment for help. I'm just pointing out the two times out of three that I could have done something more. I said more later, mostly when explaining why I was writing without permission.

That's mostly the myth of zdimensia. Something was said to her, she responded, if there was any reply at all it was TLDR she must be trolling.

There was one more thing that never occurred to me, other than lying. I could have gone "Screw what little feedback I got from the PG, I'm going to ignore it and do what I want."

I'm not arguing that I needed to step back. I'm arguing that I volunteered to step back and they felt I needed to be punished for that.

Sorry for mentioning BSDM. I draw parallels to try and understand the world. Are the song references bad, as well?

I still don't understand how I am to blame for the actions of other people. While there were things that I could do, they could have done more.

I'm rising to my condition, which unfortunately means that I must go against what I think is proper and just be direct, even if that isn't proper either.

I was witness to what happened during Bram's first attempt at Permission, while it was happening in real-time and certainly not after the fact. Granted, I did mess up big-time by yelling at her, but looking back at the thread I can say that she wasn't a victim necessarily. I appreciate that her mental health concerns are being discussed in a civil, tactful fashion, but constantly arguing back when faced with concrit, or ignoring it as has been done with the missions they've published, is still not a good thing to do.

I've had PM correspondence with this person before, and the response I got to my apology for lashing out at them was that she tried to shift the blame to the rest of the community. She hasn't once apologized to me for the things she's done wrong, and has instead tried to justify herself for their actions, which is something that my work supervisors have advised against doing because it makes me look like I can't take criticism. I don't speak with her often through PM, and I can't remember the last time I've done so, but I just don't want to have to willingly put myself in a situation where I may end up snapping and causing another ruckus, because Arceus knows I've been through enough of those. :/

As it stands, I wish to vouch for a final chance to give the olive branch to Bram, a last call for her to either make an honest effort to better herself as a person or, as has been stated multiple times in this thread, part ways with us without another ugly incident, which is more likely given the state of things. I know I called for her to be temporarily banned straight away that time, but if that were the case then I'd have just as easily been given the boot as well for my own offense back then, and in light of this recent info I don't know if another temporary ban would be successful. Whatever the case, I hope she gets the help she needs with her mental issues, because that'd likely be more productive than arguing on the Internet with the odds so badly stacked against her...

But if you are viewing, and to bring up two of your main points, the banning and the Permission process as oppressive, then there is still an issue.

Events reached a point where a ban was needed. When the vast majority of people participating in a discussion have a serious enough problem with the discussion that they're asking someone to leave, that's not oppression. That is a sign that a large portion of the community has an issue with what you are saying or doing, and would like you to stop because the area is for them to enjoy as much as it is yours. To put it bluntly, while you enjoying the community is important, so is everyone else enjoying it, and if one person is making it difficult for a larger group of others, then that one has the problem, not the group at large.

As for permission, you mentioned that you had issues with the permission prompts and your characters, but didn't comment for help. When people pointed out difficulties, you said it would have been better to have lied about what characters you were going to use, as long as you could use the ones you wanted. This is not the fault of the community.

That in all of these cases, you rest the blame either on others or on the community as a whole is why I don't think you've really learned. I understand that there are issues you have to overcome, bus as Scape said in the previous discussion, you can't use your own condition as a crutch.

I'm sorry if this feels like an attack, but this is truly how the situation is coming across to me. The reference to BDSM was entirely unneeded and insulting, depending on where you fall on the subject.

I'm just saying what I feel would be best, but you're you and thus the best judge of what is ultimately the best thing for you to do. So go for it.

Nope, that's not me. I don't even know how to block people on gmail.