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My laptop is literally coming apart at the seams. As happens with reasonably old laptop, the screen hinge is coming apart and taking the entire screen case with it. I'm not technical enough to fix it and my usual repairs place (which was the holy trinity of fast, cheap, and good) has now somehow turned into a comic book shop. This is not conducive to a stable and unpanicked Scapegrace.

I... can't afford a new one. I just can't. And that means either swiping Mel's tablet or using my garbage oblong carrot Windows Phone. Yeah, I'm one of the six people still using those. We have a support group every Wednesday.

The upshot of all this is that I may be inactive for a few weeks, maybe more. I mean, I might post sporadically, but nothing too long.

See you all later. x

I concede the point because I think Neshomeh is right, on further though, which in itself means agreeing to abide by the stated definition.

Since this came up in Nesh's transcript, and I remember it as a bugbear for zdimensia as well, I thought I'd explain why people (PGs) have seemed inconsistent about whether you can write missions before you get Permission.

The thing is, Permission is a torturous doom-laden trial a filter. It is intended to filter out writers who cannot write PPC fiction well enough that it should be included in the canon. When you show us that you can do that - when you post your prompts and get a Permission Granted - that means that we think you can do it.

But it doesn't mean that you retroactively could always write well enough. If you've already been denied Permission once, it even means that you explicitly can't write well enough, though we hope you soon will be able to.

So let's say you take your Permission Denied, and you write half a dozen missions. Along the way, you learn about your characters, about the PPC, about writing in general. You improve. And when you apply for Permission again, you get it, easily.

And then you post the first mission you wrote. The one that came right after you were denied Permission - or, heck, the one that came between your first and second denials. The mission that was written at a time when you were not ready to write for the PPC.

Does that clear up the confusion? The answers Bramandin received were answers to both halves of the question:

1) You can write whatever you want "for the drawer" (as Neshomeh said). PPC missions, heartwarming interludes, Flower-murder, hardcore smut. Whatever. It's your keyboard, your time, your computer.

2) You cannot post anything that doesn't meet the standards of the PPC. And that explicitly includes anything written before the PPC Community - through the Permission Givers it voted to put its trust and confidence in - judged you ready, able, and knowledgeable enough to write for the PPC canon.

What zdimensia seemed to want to do was 'pre-write' her missions. She never gave the impression of seeing Permission as a test of her writing ability, but just as an arbitrary hoop to jump through.

It isn't. It's there for a reason. And that reason precludes writing for publication without it.

hS

When we are plain about what we expect from you, particularly with regard to your conduct, we get called every name under the sun and accused of being bullies.

Yeah, sorry, I remain utterly unconvinced of your victimhood.

It does not seem from the email chain that Bramandin "lied and manipulated her way to a Permission grant" (except in that she did not disclose her previous ban). She certainly lied through and manipulated the Permission process; see here for the moment I got so fed up with her 'oh my character cannot do any of the prompts' line and fed her three random prompts which could literally happen to anyone - but Permission was granted based on July's opinion of her work and behaviour. See here.

There are ways to cheat the Permission process. One would be to plagiarise something and present it as your writing sample, or get a disgruntled ex-PPCer to do so. Another would be to just... lie and say you got Permission ages back. I would also count having the person who grants you Permission act as beta/cowriter, or anything else which means their objectivity is compromised. Bramandin, so far as Neshomeh's chat logs go, didn't do any of those things.

hS

Bram is a (possibly formerly) banned user operating under a sockpuppet. hS's post has all the relevant details. This didn't come up in the Grand Conciliary because it was thought to be resolved.

Right. Huinesoron's proposal included a clause that violation of the 12-month ban would lead to a permanent ban. No objection was raised by respondents to that post.

On the other hand, Phobos's survey, which was the method used to vote on the ban, contains no such clarifying clause. Since Phobos wasn't one of the people who replied to hS... I don't know.

My inclination, given Bramandin's poor reception to constructive criticism on her missions and her recent harassment of Iximaz, is to declare the ban permanent due to the violation, particularly after reading over Neshomeh's correspondence with her. However, I'm torn. Bramandin has been making an effort to improve, it seems, and she's certainly not as bad as she was when posting as zdimensia. As such, my mind could be changed.

As a final note, directly to Bramandin: I'm autistic, too. It's not an excuse. You can learn to be better, but here is not the place to teach you the skills you need. If you are to remain, you need to speak less and listen more, and continue to make a concerted effort to be better every day.

Can someone move Kelly into the out-of-continuity for me?

I think in addition to the rule of not manipulating the process, there needs to be an addition to the FAQ. "What happens if someone has trouble with the permission process?"

I think the answer should be that the problem will be examined by the board. In a lot of cases, a little flexibility should fix the problem.

Someone else said before permission that they would drop an idea, only to write it into a story later.

I'll go back later to tweak the permission page to be presented in a less confusing manner without fundamentally changing it.

I also felt that during the permission process, some requests were added. I have an essay on my vampire's powers. Also, I got vague feedback about wanting to know more about my vampire; she wasn't the POV character and doesn't talk about herself.

I do think that having details about a character's powers is important.

Tomash should be allowed to post. She is gone voluntarily, after all.

http://technodann.github.io/PPC-board-2.0/archive/2014/07b.html#post-100166

"I couldn't find a prompt that would work with my main team,"

"I finally found something to wedge in as a random prompt"

This was after I complained that I didn't want to use Samantha and Larry and was ignored. I can't find the link right now.

---

36 Permission Prompts" document, which you must have looked at in order to come to the conclusion that you couldn't find a random prompt you liked.

Not liking the prompt was language from the FAQ, and not what I was saying. I was afraid of what would happen if I corrected her preconception.

---

I was asked to use my main team, and only later was it revealed that I could choose which team I wanted to use.

So this is basically just a series of reactions I had while reading:

I like the interruption of the rap!

...PRUSSIA. You should bring in Prussia to spork. I didn't get that far in the show, but I saw him used for sporking once, and it was amazing.

...oh, good, Prussia is actually in the fic. That would make his potential sporking presence better and, uh, sense-having. Wait, which of the kids is he essentially turning into? He wouldn't make sense with any of them, except maybe a teenaged Marauder or the Weasley twins, but--oh dear. This should be... interesting.

...Malfoy. Prussia is Malfoy. What.

Go Ron go! In fact, please keep talking. For the entire fic. That would be lovely.

...Hungary, dear... Hermione does not like flying.

Yeah, I give up. There's no sense in this fic except for Ron and, sometimes, Ginny. I like "you uncultured ferret" from Ami in the sporking, though.

Ooh, you've brought England in! From the OFU, no less!

Well, that was fun. And 'Monstery Science Theater' was well-placed.

Overall, pretty fun. I'd love to see...well, just about any of the countries come in to spork. Maybe people from HP or unrelated (but similarly themed?) canons, too, if that's an option. Also, might as well third that suggestion of that one country with the polar bear...

Good job!

~Zing

Maybe. I've forgotten. But the polar bears are really cute, ne?

:)

More seriously, I'm about to check out the MST itself. I'll try to leave a comment for the authors soon!

~Zing

(Yeah, this is the post I mentioned wanting to make--if there was another, I'm no longer sure what it was.)

Furthermore, I'm given to understand that July hasn't been the only target of this, meaning Iximaz's friends taking it upon themselves to have a go at whoever she has a beef with, whether behind their backs or to their faces. [...]

I think there's a fine line between commiserating with a friend over something you don't agree with and being a jerk to people you don't like. Not everyone has to be best friends with everyone else, that's fine, but if not getting along with someone spills over into actual attacks on them, that line has definitely been crossed.

As someone who has been visibly close to Iximaz for what I believe is now a few years, I feel it's important that I say, in public here (irregardless of how many people are still reading this thread by now), that to my knowledge I have never, and will never, do this. I try to hold myself back from situations when I'm angry until such time as I can think a little more clearly; I am very much not in the habit of going around attacking people. I sincerely hope that should I ever have a problem with someone I would bring it to the Board (or, if I felt it could be resolved easily, in private) as calmly and clearly as I could manage. I also hope that I have done so in the past; if I have failed in that, I sincerely apologise now, and hope that I did the same at the time.

I have certainly done the commiseration thing. It's a pretty common thing to do with your friends, even in cases when you don't agree with their opinion or you just want to be an ear for them to rant to. One can agree that a situation sucks and try to provide support despite one's own opinion, in most times. But I would like to make it clear that I have never gone about attacking people because someone else was upset, and that if I were ever to call someone out about their behavior towards friends of mine I intend it to be with having hopefully heard something from both sides, and most likely presented on the Board and as rationally as possible, unless I felt it could be resolved off-Board.

If I have something important and complex (or potentially controversial) to say, whether it's on the Board or in a chat, I generally read it over and let it sit and read it over again. I do not particularly enjoy arguments, and I find it abhorrent in most cases to curse out or go after someone.

I'm certainly not perfect. Human beings don't tend to be. But I strive to express myself carefully when I'm angry or upset, particularly online and in public online. And I apologized for any time when I've failed to do so, especially if I hurt someone by it.

I doubt that this post was specifically directed towards me. However, given that I've visibly fallen into the category of 'Iximaz's friends' for a while now, I wanted to make it clear that, to my knowledge, I have never joined in behavior like this, and that I have no intention of starting.

~Zing

The abuse that I am talking about is strictly in regards to zdimensia.

As far as I can tell, everything Bramandin except for this thread has no mistreatment, only misunderstandings. I make mistakes, no matter how hard I try. I don't get connotation or social cues.

I think that the Ix thing has been handled to people's satisfaction?

I do need to work on following concrit more,
how to accept it better,
and of being patient for betas.

...the definition in Neshomeh's post? Or just that you concede the point? Or something different?

I agree with Nesh's comments on what to actually do when mutually avoiding someone to the point where I've just realized that the reply post that I set aside last night to edit or discard said almost exactly the same things. I'd really like clarity on what's going on here, for everyone's sake. The very last thing we need is more miscommunication.

~Zing

That being, Permission revoked on grounds of obtaining it when not only she wasn't supposed to be asking in the first place thanks to the ban, but also lying about the characters and manipulating the process would be reasonable to me. Tomash's added caveat that zdimensia be allowed to try again in the future—after she's proven herself trustworthy enough to ask Permission—is acceptable as well.

I'd be in much more favor of just saying "No, you willfully broke your ban twice and lied and tricked your way into regaining (misplaced) trust, so you should leave." But if that were not possible, then Tomash's suggestions are fine by me.

Admittedly, I have been gone a long time, and have read through a lot of this as a crash course, so I am getting a rather condensed view, but I haven't seen anything but attack after attack from Bramandin against either the entire community or individuals within it. The Grand Concilliary is still open, and as was stated within it many times, it was the place to address grievances with the goal of not having threads like this one that bring up the past again and again. Bramandin posted in it several times, so they saw it. Why a new dramatic thread here a few days after that one fell off the front page?

And it is the same accusations that have been present in every single Bramandin drama thread, in which they vaguely and with very, very confusing words claim that the entire PPC is mean to them and owes them an apology. Vague accusations of bullying. Demands that everyone apologize to them. Excuses that being autistic made them do it (I, personally, find that to be a highly offensive excuse for bad behavior. Especially bad behavior that has been repeatedly and explicitly explained as bad behavior). Excuses that it was actually the other members of the community who were behaving badly. Just a lot of excuses and claims that they are the victim. Every single time. Including the last one with Iximaz just a week or two ago.

I am confused by most of the posts in this thread by Bramandin. They objectively do not make sense, so I actually have very little idea of what it is they are accusing the PPC of other than them being the victim of the PPC.

I am not putting forth a vote for anything, but also I do not understand the statements that Bramandin is behaving better when this thread looks very much like all the others.

I'm not trying to be offensive, and I apologize if anything in here is. Please point it out to me, so I can not do it in the future, but also, please someone explain this to me.

Just to avoid ambiguity, everything other than this sentence is Tomash's words.

"Subject: My thoughts and proposals

From what I can tell, Bram is working on her behavior. We've forgiven a lot (or, in the recent case, handed out a formal last chance instead of striking Bram down with a banhammer) because of what appeared to be genuine attempts at improvement. Adding one count of ban evasion to the list of things we'll be willing to understandably forgive doesn't seem like too much of a stretch. So count this as (unless other people or a closer look at the archives convince me otherwise) a vote against the continuation of the permaban.

One of my secondary reasons for that vote is that this is partly analogous to Scapegrace's situation, which has also been marked by problems interacting with the community and (from what I can tell) genuine attempts at working on mental-illness-induced behavior issues.

That being said, I've read over the emails Neshomeh provided, and I see there that Bramadin admitted to lying and manipulating her way to a Permission grant. From what I can tell, the only reason that we don't have a rule about that is that we didn't expect anyone to do it (same as, for example, doxxing). For that, I propose Permission Revoked going forward, without any restrictions on re-applying by the usual process. Let me be clear, this revocation is NOT for "bad writing" and NOT for "being bad at taking concrit", since that's a precedent I'd not like to see set.

Permission being revoked means that Bram is still welcome to write PPC stuff privately (and get it beta'd), and to post things that don't require Permission (Permission requests, most RPs, and so on), but that she's not to represent any of that work as canonical/official stories set in the PPC universe.

Now, to Bramadin:

From what I can tell, you've accused the community of being abusive or bullies, and I'm not sure what it it we've done that seems abusive. Having a Permission process? Having a Permission process that is extremely confusing to you? Not understanding/listening to you? I just don't know. I would appreciate a concrete list of events (links and/or quotes would be nice, but I won't say they're required) where we were, from your perspective, abusive, preferably including what about that interaction was a bad thing.

Second, a lot of what you're saying isn't being understood. In a lot of the posts you've made here, I don't understand what message you are trying to communicate with your words. You've said that you're using a lot of "parallels" to try to communicate (if this is what I'm thinking of, my name for that sort of thing is "private metaphors"). They are, in most cases, not being understood, in the sense that they're not conveying much of a message at all. Also, in some of your posts, you're using pronouns (or pronoun-like things) in a way that makes it impossible for us to tell what you're referring to. For example, "the scowlers" in your post on racism.. I'm still not sure who you're talking about there.

Lastly, I'm going to echo various people who are saying that we don't have the resources to help you thrive here, and that it might be best for you to leave, at least temporarily.

Now, on a meta note, can I post here same as in the Concilliary, since this is the same sort of thread (namely, a discussion of bad behavior with possible votes)?

- Tomash"

I'll yield the floor on this issue. It's not a terribly productive thing to argue about, anyway.

Still pretty much the same mate! Otherwise... well, you can see down there by yourself...

Anyway welcome back Ancient One!

So, several years ago, I was here. (Except under a different name, that I've long since forgotten but that's another story.) So I'm TVTropes trawling, spot the PPC, and decide to pop back in to check.

Is everything still the same (relatively speaking)? Agents still underpaid and overworked? An HR system run like Nelson's Navy (on Saturday we're willing if you'll take the Flower's Shilling, to make an Agent of any one of you)? Getting leave a combination of threatening your boss and acquiring new Agents?

I'm completely unaware of what I did that needs apologies for. Perhaps it is a case of someone saying "they did nothing wrong" and I believed them?

I don't remember having a conversation with you over PM.

Perhaps the "arguing back" you're seeing is me looking for more information, or making sure I understood? Someone said "go back to these and acknowledge the concrit" and it looks to me like I did. Maybe I didn't say enough?

Despite me yelling "I said I'll try harder next time" I recognize that they were trying to help.

I think that lately, I have improved.

Perhaps Skarmory could email me some really hard advice. IIRC, you have a diagnoses.