The PPC Posting Board - Latest posts

Wow. I would have sworn I sent well-wishes on the day itself, but apparently not. Very sorry about that. Anyway, happy birthday! Hope the cake was tasty.

The suggestion smacks way too much of "let's turn every negative thing that happens into a permanent scarlet letter".

I really want to face your team, mainly because I actually really like it and want to see how well it would do against mine.

I also don't think we need to be dredging this stuff up and rehashing it. It was five years ago, and I sure don't want anyone to suffer any more on account of what happened back then. I'm sorry for bringing up those unpleasant memories further.

I also don't think anyone wanted to rehash that. Doc brought it up in an offhand way, and I posted links because I had gotten the sense that several people were worried that an argument was about to start and were confused as to what everyone was referring to. If I've missed some post where we were about to start rehashing that mess again, please let me know.

I'm going to second the request that we drop the subject here, since it's not relevant to anything we're still discussing on likely to discuss (it was briefly slightly relevant during a discussion two weeks back, but that's over now).

However, I do think that it's important that we remember our history, including some of the skeletons. How will we avoid repeating our mistakes once almost everyone here today has left (if trends continue, the list of names on the Board will be way different in five-ish years) if we don't remember our history, or worse, insist that everyone forget about what happened and never speak of it again?

If, a good long time from now, the early stages of an angry mob start forming in whatever-we'll-be-using-for-chat (I should hope this never happens, but who knows), I hope that someone will point at what happened last March to remind everyone about what happened last time we tried that sort of thing. Sure, if I'm still around, it'll mean being reminded of my stupidity and the 12-odd hours where my permaban over a mistake was looking rather likely, but that doesn't give me the right to tell people not to spread and preserve the lessons we've learned from what happened there.

And yes, whoever starts working on this, sensitivity is very important.

- Tomash

"Convoys, maneuver out of here and go dark, prioritize repairs on your shields and hypers. Thornbird! I want us to prioritize taking out Tango 2. Hold position and fire missiles on Tango 2 and open laser fire on Any Tango that so much as passes us."

If it needs saying, I share Phobos' concern. Probably more than he does. {; P

~Neshomeh

I'm not particularly thrilled that this subject has been raised, either. As I said to doc, I don't enjoy being reminded of that time my friends decided to assume the worst of me and nearly ran me off because of a poor choice of words.

However:

I'm not sure that gives me the right to even request that no one ever mention it, or to suggest that new people don't have some right to know the history of this place, skeletons and all. So I won't.

I will request that it not be discussed any further in this thread, though. It was three years ago, and I think that's well past any reasonable statute of limitations on dredging things up with the intent to rehash them. It's not relevant unless people think hS and I, or anyone else, need to suffer for it any more than we already have, in which case I will happily take my leave of the Board, because I have no room in my life for that level of f***ery.

Now that I've got that out of the way...

On the subject of making things easier to find, if we really must, then once again I think the wiki holds the answer you seek. Ages ago, I started a page called History of the PPC, Part One with the intent of summing up major events like this in concise chronological order, with links to pages (on- or offsite) with greater detail. Nobody ever did anything with it, and I lost interest, but it's still there. In the PPC History and Events categories. Waiting to be useful.

Just, y'know, remember that people got hurt in all of these things. Recording what happened for posterity is not in itself a bad idea, IMO, but whoever does it, please be sensitive about it, all right?

~Neshomeh

...to say that hS is recusing himself from this thread, and will be taking a break from the board until Friday, in line with Phobos's very good advice. I'll try to keep him entertained until then, but, well, we'll see.

And... Ducking out again.

-Kaitlyn

I know you are upset, and I understand why, but you've been getting more aggressive as this has gone on, and I'm worried about you. Take a break from the Board and try not to think about this thread for a while. You clearly need a chance to rest. I feel like you've been "on" non-stop since this started.

So, please take some time off, for your own well-being.

-Phobos

I like to think I'm over all that, but yeah, being reminded of how people turned on me for that mistake (of wording and perhaps timing, I believe, not of intent or moral character) still sucks a whole lot.

So, thanks for apologizing. No hard feelings. I know you only meant well. *hugs offered*

~Neshomeh is at work now and can't talk much, but wanted to acknowledge that.

Here's me being attacked.

Here's what it was a response to.

Here it is again.

Yep, same link.

Let's just keep shoving it right in my face.

The whole sharding purpose of this so-called Concilliary was to get the unresolved issues out into the open so they could be cleared up, sorted out, and left in the past. This - this dragging out of things over and done with years ago - goes precisely against that purpose. This is exactly the sort of thing I wanted to avoid happening to people.

But you had to drag it all up. Had to make me read this again. And this. And remember all the other people who felt that they had the right to attack and insult me because they wanted to.

I hope whatever goal you had in posting links to the sharding thing is worth it.

hS

I meant that paragraph to be supportive of you and Neshomeh, and that makes it all the worse a decision on my part to even have brought up Jacer during it. I didn't intend any criticism or accusation for a long-past event. I feel terrible that I caused you unnecessary upset here today (And you too, Nesh, if I did so).

I promise the both of you that have immense respect for you and the effort and attention you pour into our community, and I don't harbor any ill feelings towards either of you. I'm sorry.

—doctorlit

• Tomash, who, summarizing very broadly, revealed someone else's True Name in the Dizzy Chord and has undertaken a period of exile from Plort out of guilt and shame

Just goes to show that finding information that's already been written down is also sometimes a hard problem, I guess.

- Tomash

Someone relatively new PM'd me on Discord asking where to look to find out about the Jacer stuff because it seemed important now. I had to go dig up the altchives link (for the record, new people, this is the thread that started it all, this is a followup departure post, and here is where constitutional amendments started getting hammered out).

We should have some document that gives newer people the ability to figure out what the heck all the oldbies are going on about. Short summaries and a list of archive links is probably sufficient. Heck, leave off the summaries and just gather up all the old-drama related archive links in one place so finding them for the next newbie with a historical question isn't a huge pain in the neck.

Given how easy it is for stuff to hide in the corners of the wiki, a wiki page might be well-hidden enough. If that still seems too visible, then use a document linked from a wiki page.

No matter what, like a lot of people have pointed out, any official (or seemingly official) document needs to be serious. There seem to be too many pitfalls involved in trying to do anything but when it comes to creating a referencable record of historical stuff.

- Tomash

First, "deterrent value" was the wrong phrase. What I meant to say was something more along the lines of "norm-setting value". I don't think my actions were an attempt to manipulate the PPC into viewing bans as a punishment, but I was trying to send messages.

Before I get to that, though, I should clarify. As I said then, I consider my two-and-a-half month ban to be a punishment. I'm (this thread aside) having to miss out an participating in all the interesting and fun things we get up to, even though there's nothing external to the PPC that's stopping me from joining in (like exams or whatnot). That feels bad. It's supposed to feel bad, because it's a consequence of me doing a rather bad thing.

The punitive aspect of my ban works because I still want to be around here, and it's possible that it only works because it was voluntary.

That being said, "doxxing is super not tolerated here" is a message I (and 55% of us, unless I'm misremembering people's rationales for voting) wanted to send with my temporary ban. If that means that me pushing my own ban through counts as me trying to change the rules without bothering with consensus, then, yes, I did that.

There was also, at the time of the ban, an idea going around (primarily, I think, among the witch-hunt group) that we needed to be harsher on wrongdoers. When I called my ban vote, that idea was in my head. So, yes, a secondary motivation of mine was to make my ban the first act of the New Community Order (tm). Said New Community Order has not materialized. If I had to speculate, it's because we held off on actually discussing changes until way after the "Something must be done!1!" and other strong emotions wore off.

One other effect I wanted my ban to have (and still do) is to make more explicit the norm of taking a voluntary break after you really screw up around here, since, even though I called it a ban, that word didn't quite fit. People don't usually ban themselves, after all. Therefore, my case might not be a good example if we need to forcibly ban someone.

As to precedent, it's up to you guys what precedent my ban sets, if any. I'm not in charge here either. If this ban ends up in PPC history as "Tomash felt awfully guilty and banned himself for a bit, but that was a one-time thing." then that's what it'll be.

- Tomash

The story was taken down, but not until after I started working on it.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HkVpSAOG31-RpjxOnXisT82-2yPSXjMN9BhsfanVo/edit?usp=sharing

Cat-on-the-Keyboard was a wonderful beta. She quietly pointed out problems and praise, and there was only one case of disagreement.

There is a dwarf, her appearance is so vague that her beard appears and disappears. She ended up in medical or ficpsych, reading a manual. Before that, she was confused about the Sue that was or wasn't her friend.

I think I can recall another story where the Sue heard the agents snickering in the bushes. Maybe she wasn't recruited.

I like Derik and the realtiy room.

I think that a sensitive approach to old problems is best. Right now, these names are like boogey-men and I'm not sure where in the archives to look for them unless someone points them out.

As much as I think "ggigling at the ghosties" is perhaps useful, perhaps a more clinical essay is the way to go. Something that condenses the problem down in a way that's easier to understand, rather than having to read the entire archives.

I'm interested in learning about incidents.

I only looked at Jacer's permission thread, not noting who said what. The impression that I got was that the community failed Jacer as much as she failed them. It was only in a private conversation that I got a summary of why Jacer was unfit.

I feel sad that a newbie got chased off by drama. Perhaps that is why problems should be dealt with quickly.

I think that the board is intimidating for some of us. I recently realized that I've been here for over a year and should stop acting like a timid newbie.

((Before I had permission, there was a discussion on the permission process. I felt that I should have been more forceful then. "Shut up, it's not your problem anymore." "Excuse me, it is my problem now.))