The PPC Posting Board - Latest posts

Firstly, thank you, Tomash (and DJ for bringing Tomash to us).

Secondly, I agree with you that we can, and probably should be, more explicit with the consequences. I felt we needed to address the apology as quickly as possible, to reinforce good behavior, but I did not want to speak for the group on what specific consequences should be.

So, I agree with your proposal.

-Phobos

I haven't been really following the election but I just hope it turns out alright.

Welcome to the very first Friday Forum, a hopefully-regular thread for talking about the week we've just had in this lovely world of ours. I'll kick it off by sharing a few news items (and my thoughts on them), and you can join in by talking about the stuff I raise, or other things that you've noticed.

Please remember that, when it comes to the state of the world, not everyone will agree with you. You're free to state, discuss, and defend your viewpoint (provided it does not violate the Constitution), but please don't use that fact to attack others.

Fandom News


(Link)

The trailer for The Dark Tower dropped on Wednesday, and I have to say I like the look of it. It doesn't seem to focus on the horror aspects of, say, The Drawing of the Three or Song of Susannah, which pleases me (as someone who read the Dark Tower series as fantasy and doesn't want to read anything else by Stephen King).

It looks like they're drawing mostly from The Gunslinger and The Waste Lands, though future trailers may alter that balance. It's not a straight adaptation of the books - but this is the Dark Tower series, which is rife with alternate universes. (Also, rumour says that Roland has the Horn of Eld - see the end of this post if you don't mind spoilers on what that actually means...)

Silly News


(Link)

Prince Philip, the Queen's husband (and Duke of Edinburgh), has stepped down from his royal duties at the age of 95. (Well, technically he's announced that he will in the autumn, at 96... whatever.) You might think that isn't particularly silly, but, uh, the BBC decided to commemorate the decision with an article on the numerous offensive "quips" he's made over the years (see link, above). So now you, too, can wince along with the British at the thought of the Queen's husband telling Malala Yousafzai that "[Children] go to school because their parents don't want them in the house"...!

Serious News


(Britain & America)

In a continuing swing towards the Right, Britain's Conservatives have done very well in local elections, while Twitter Personality and President Donald J. Trump has pushed his replacement for Obamacare through Congress.

The UK vote is very worrying, seeing as we're in the run-up for the snap general election Theresa May called (for the very cynical and blatant reason that she wants to reduce the number of people arguing with her). Quite what left-wing opposition leader Jeremy Corbyn is thinking about this is unclear. He should be thinking that he shot himself in the foot by supporting said snap election, but who knows?

Stateside, the biggest issue with Trump's replacement (per Kaitlyn) is that it simultaneously gives insurers the ability to raise premiums based on pre-existing conditions, and removes the prohibition against counting domestic violence as a pre-existing condition. So yeah, if you go into hospital after your boyfriend breaks your arm, your insurance company can ask you to prove that he wasn't already beating you before you took out your policy. For the people!

There's good news on both stories, too. UKIP - the far-right nationalist party of the UK - were absolutely hammered in the local elections, and the Trump presidency originally thought getting his bill through Congress would be easy compared to getting the Senate to accept it. Given that it only narrowly passed Congress after weeks of wrangling means there's still a long fight against it ahead.

But in general: I do not like it, Sam I Am.

Not News



^_^

hS

"A hit!" Chief of Security Phobos grins at his console. "Looks like you were right about Tango 2 stopping to fix those sensors - we've taken out their sidewall generators, they have no shields."

"But we can't fire without blowing our cover," the Tactical Officer reminds you. "We can fix the decoys this turn - our thrusters are in their recharge phase anyway - but other than that, any overt move will give both Tango 2 and Tango 1 our position and vector."

"But we might have to," Comms chimes in. "Tango 3 got in another strike on the convoy; it was a near-miss, but they're just going to keep getting more accurate, and Tango 1's salvos are homing in on them. If we don't make a move - or Captain Elcalion doesn't do something clever - they might lose a ship, and that would be a disaster."





Every missile so far has hit through the shields; that one on the convoy rolled a 1, meaning a clean miss.

A reminder that anyone is allowed to jump in here; if you don't think directing missiles is something you're up for, you can take control of one of the convoy ships.

hS

Hmm, no, that's much too understated. Let's try this:

*rapturous applause*

Ah, much better. There is a tragic dearth of Star Wars related poetry in the world, well done mending it!

May the Fourth be with you!

After years of lurking around and occasionally commenting on stuff, I've finally managed to get a permission request ready. Now all I need is a beta to make sure I didn't **** the whole thing up. Any takers?

First, to the extent that Bramandin's apology is directed to the community at large, I'm willing to consider it sincere, unless Bram's future actions disprove this. I, and everyone else here, have no power to accept or reject Bramandin's apologies to Iximaz; that power lies with her alone.

Bramandin, I am concerned by some aspects of your apology, which indicate that you have some significant misunderstandings of the norms of neurotypical social interaction. This is entirely understandable, and I do not blame you for it. However, as a fellow aspie, I would like to disagree with your assertion that "There is nothing to overcome, this is just who I am." As others have pointed out, you cannot use who you are as a shield from consequences. Since who you are causes you to have difficulties interacting with others appropriately, if you want to interact with people, you must manage your mental illnesses by learning to interact appropriately with others. This is not going to be quick or easy, and you will almost certainly make mistakes along the way. Despite this, I am confident that you can learn like I did and continue to do. (If you, at some point, want me to try and help you understand something, my email and Discord are open.)

Now, to the community:

The current consensus resolution appears to be "We accept Bramandin's apology. If Bramandin tries to get Iximaz's attention again, we will have a full discussion and vote during which we will be very likely to impose consequences.". I claim this is insufficient, given our (actual or perceived) tendency to abandon discussions and ignore complaints, which make it [appear to be] the case that no consequences will actually be imposed for future offenses.

Therefore, I propose that we make our attitude towards Bramandin's possible future offenses clearer and more concrete for both Iximaz and Bramandin's benefit, as well as our own.

To provide that clarity, I again propose that, if Bramandin contacts Iximaz again, she (Bramandin) shall automatically receive a ban of not less than three months (which will be extendable at the time of the offense), and that this potential automatic ban remain over Bram's head for at least two years.

I believe that the imposition of specific future consequences for a clearly-defined set of future acts is, in this case, necessary, despite the apologies that have been offered. This is due to the severe and repeated nature of the harassment in question, and the fact that it remains unclear to what extent Bram understands (or will in the future understand) the inappropriateness of her actions. I also believe that this consequence would help Bram guide her actions in the future.

In order to make our consensus about how we will act more concrete, I ask everyone who agrees with my proposal (or something similar, or even something more severe) to explicitly indicate this ("+1 (nm)" is fine), and similarly for disagreements.

- Tomash

(I agree with this; I'd like to see the "or else" defined.)

could have been named on this list, I want to say that I have had severe anxiety over the PPC for a long, long time, but this Grand Concilliary and all the responses to it have been immensely helpful to my psyche. I am proud of everyone here for taking on a terribly difficult situation with thoughtfulness and care. I haven't contributed up til now, because I didn't feel qualified, but I think I am caught up enough now to say a few words.


Before I go further, even though I am not on this list, I want to apologize for my part in the incident a few years ago that seems to have lain the foundation for the current problems. I made some pretty big mistakes, and I hurt several people. I am sorry.


Someone suggested further down that the chat logs somehow be put onto an archive that is available to everyone. I think this is an excellent idea, though I have no idea how to accomplish it. It would give those who never go to the chat peace of mind and access, and make those who do chat remember that what they say there matters and is public.

Also, I know the situation between Bramandin and Iximaz hasn't been pleasant for anyone. I imagine especially coming so close to this thread, but as someone who is essentially an outside observer at this point, everything talked about here worked. It was immediately shut down on the chat and taken to the Board, which has allowed it to be dealt with much more rationally.

Even though it looks very much like people are still hurting from earlier problems, I think the PPC has a lot to be proud of in the handling of this problem. Seriously, compare it to the last one or even the linked threads in the above discussion. It might not be my place, but I think you all need to hear that you are doing a good job, even the ones who needed a push in the right direction.

The difference between dealing with a situation on the chat and on the Board is impressive. The Board gives everyone time to think about their responses and the responses of everyone else. Even if they don't always think about them enough it is much easier to step back and not let it become an echo chamber.

I think seeing issues dealt with thoroughly like this new one is will build trust. Trust that things are taken seriously and dealt with rationally will help avoid most of the problems in item 4 below. (Saying trust, I'm maybe speaking more from personal experience as someone who has difficulty trusting others due to past experiences than can apply to others in the PPC, so if anyone feels this last statement is just plain wrong for the group, please take it as only my personal issue)

tl;dr:
1. Good job to everyone who worked on this thread and implemented strategies from it in the latest conflict.
2. I am sorry for my part in the years ago problems, even if I wasn't named in this thread.
3. I second the idea of creating chat logs that all of the PPC could access.

Not everything should've been said like that.

I'd like to be a bit more clear about the consequences, though: repeated harassing of other members absolutely should warrant a banning, IMO, and breaking these rules counts as repeat harassment.

(Thanks for laying down a concrete set of suggestions, Phobos- that was a thing we needed.)

It's in the first sentence of the section "The Discord Server".

—doctorlit is really only on Discord to read the role-play logs

I prefer to post on stuff like this only when I've got my thoughts sufficiently in order to be helpful, and I've been either too busy or too distracted to wrangle them into line for nearly three weeks now.

I have been doing my best to keep up, though, and I should be able to join in no later than next Tuesday, barring any unexpected complications.

I'm glad that you've calmed down and offered this apology. I'm going to accept your apology, as the constitution says we should, but that acceptance always comes with conditions. You have to prove, through your continued actions, that you are sincere.

At the very least that means:

-Don't contact Iximaz again. Pretend that she does not exist.

-If people tell you to stop a behavior...then stop. It's that easy.

-If you feel attacked, don't lash out, stop the conversation and tell someone who can mediate for you. You, by your own admission, may be misreading the situation.


If you cannot do these things, then there will be consequences. That is up to, and including, indefinite banning. I'm not saying this as a threat. I just want to be clear about what is on the line here.

If you have questions about this, post them here and I (or others in the community) will try to answer them. I want us to be on the same page here, and I want to be sure that you understand.



To the rest of the community, if you disagree with how I've handled this, then please speak up. I'm not a dictator, I serve at the pleasure of the community.

If you agree with how this went down, then it is up to you to hold the community to it. We forgive, but we need not forget.

-Phobos

First, it's brave of you to be so candid about your mental health issues. Talking about stuff like that really isn't easy - it took me several goes to really open up about my anger issues and paranoia on the Board - so you should be praised for bringing it up. However, as others have told me and as I will now tell you, it does not excuse poor behaviour, nor does it free you from the responsibility to take the consequences of your actions. Regardless of whether or not you were taught to say "you hurt me", it is imperative that you do better in recognizing when other people are saying it.

With this in mind, let's talk about some of what you've said.

"If not saying anything is a god-given right, then why do I keep getting attacked for “maliciously ignoring” people?"

Beta readers give their time of their own volition, and the whole point of having them is to talk about your work with them and discuss what can be improved. You did not do this with Ix and Des and Aegis. You just... didn't. From what I've gathered, you dismissed their points out of hand when you weren't getting extremely defensive about such points being made in the first place. This is Not Okay. That is not how you respond to constructive criticism of the sort that is given by beta readers.

Additionally, while I'm certain this was not your intent, your phrasing here makes you sound nothing so much as whiny. Ix was not being malicious; they simply did not want to talk to you, and this desire not to talk to you was compounded by repeated attempts to force yourself into a conversation with them. I understand just how hard the question "Why won't Person X talk to me?" can hurl itself at the walls of one's skull, but just as you have the right to privacy and the right to choose with whom you associate, so do they.

I'm going to say the following very bluntly, and I apologise if doing so causes you any distress; it is merely meant as instructional and in no way is it a rebuke. Ahem:

Nobody owes you their time. You owe nobody your time. That's how this whole song and dance called human interaction works.

Let's take an example from your own experiences as mentioned in this post - an extreme one, admittedly, but the story beats line up, for want of a better term. If one of the bullies from your schooldays showed up in your social media/IRC channel/pigeon fanciers' association AGM or whathaveyou and started demanding that you speak with them, you would be well within your rights to tell them where they could stick it, yes?

The same applies to other people. It always has and it always will. Everyone has a choice whether or not to engage with people, and that choice has to be respected. You are not owed interactions with Ix because you interacted before any more than you can nick a tenner off your best friend because they gave you a tenner in 2006.

So no, what you did was not "perfectly acceptable", nor was it good. What you did was harass someone, demand positive attention from them, and not accept it when they told you no. These behaviours are in breach of the Constitution and you should be brought up on it. However, more than that, you should be given the opportunity to improve and excel. I urge you to take it.

I didn't, back in the day.

Don't be like I used to be.

... Since I don't want to boot anything off the Board, here's a potential badfic:

In Life's Name and for Life's Sake by GuardianXAngel

Where ever the Lone Power goes, Wizards follow. Their goal is to combat the spread of entropy in all its forms. What happens though when a war amongst the Powers that Be, the Gods, causes so much entropy that it masks the arrival of the Lone Power? Follow Alexander as he interacts with Olympus in an effort to stop the rise of the Titan Lord Kronos, if it is not too late already...

Crossover - Young Wizards & Percy Jackson and the Olympians - Rated: T - English - Adventure - Chapters: 1 - Words: 1,639 - Published: Apr 30

It's a first-person narrative, though given Percy Jackson is involved that's not necessarily an immediate strike against it. The question is if it's badfic enough, or just a curiosity to keep an eye on. :/

I was not doing it to spark confict. If anything, I was setting out to defuse.

then - when it became obvious nobody will take her side in this - she tried to spark the conflict in Discord. {Very wrong}

Err...

during the course of this thread Bram remained unapologetic, {wasn't ready yet} made a mockery out of every helpful and not violent response, {wrong} and failed to understand Iximaz's wishes and personal space, {yes} continuously pushing her into conversation, {not during the thread} then - when it became obvious nobody will take her side in this - she tried to spark the conflict in Discord. {Very wrong} Bram doesn't feel in the slightest that she's done something wrong {It's sinking in slowly} (and I'm not talking about the past incident with Des & Ix, but the current one). Instead, she feels like the victim. {Yes}

I have undiagnosed autism, diagnosed emotional dysregulation, possible ADD, and a diagnoses that keeps flipping between anxiety and depression. I also get weird attacks where I have absolutely no ability to tell the difference between a good idea and a bad one and I don’t even realize that my judgement is impaired; if the pattern holds, it shouldn’t happen again for a couple of years.

I’m a lot like Julia on Sesame Street. There is nothing to overcome, this is just who I am.

I absolutely do not get connotation. There are positive words and negative words, but I cannot tell the difference. I find it hard to articulate what’s in my head. I see my own writing and judge that the tone is level. Sometimes I read what you’re saying and might pick up condensation where there is none, or completely miss an angry subtext. Sometimes I don’t understand things right away. I tried parroting so that I wouldn’t use any “bad words” but I’ll stop because someone thinks I’m mocking.

I was taught never to say “you’re wrong” or “you hurt me” and I have no clue on how to articulate it tactfully. It’s common for aspies to say something rude or insulting while meaning to be nice. I have never done anything out of malice. In good faith, I ignore a lot of perceived provocations. By the time I mention not liking something, I’m pretty close to a meltdown. If you see lashing out, it’s either unarticulated pain or something completely innocuous that’s perceived with the wrong intent. There is also a bit of anxiety whenever I say, “I don’t like this.” I get flashbacks to bullies who would then do it more because I’ve told them how to get a reaction.

I apologize for trying to talk about how I’m feeling. I didn’t talk to them; this is a new mistake. I don’t have a stim that can soothe it. I have no choice but to bottle up my emotions until I start flailing and screaming at the furniture.

If not saying anything is a god-given right, then why do I keep getting attacked for “maliciously ignoring” people?

Even if I had been in a reasonable state of mind that night, I thought that what I did was not necessarily good, but perfectly acceptable. After all, it was done to me for what felt like months and it didn’t feel like ignoring it or saying how I felt about it was doing anything. No one said anything about it. I dreaded coming here, knowing that you would push me closer to a meltdown. Maybe if I had used the word “stop” you would have.

I’ll be going away for a while.

I'm sorry for trying to talk to you when you didn't feel like it. I won't talk to you again.