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But that's a good point - I'm going to try to find some of thsoe. Cheers!

This is going to be a lot of work, but it'll be worth it.

(I have to dash off now, but I'll be back and able to help later today or tomorrow.)

Missions that are already mostly-complete should be exempt from this. :)

It's hard. I try to read everything I can, but fact is that a lot of the time, people are writing missions in fandoms that I just don't know - Holmes, for example, is not a film I've seen, as you heard when I betaed for you before. It's very hard to beta for such stories.

Not anymore you ain't! X3 Anyway, why yes, I would like a chocolate bar. I'll just put it next to my stack of... /nearly gets arm bitten off by plover.

...Never mind, I'l just eat it now. Good plover... good boy...

Sorry that I went and did the same thing before seeing this.

I've been sketching out ways to get my assasin agent away from killing for a while now, and moving her into Crossover and Bad Het missions is exactly the plan, so a challenge deadline is exactly what I need. (Maybe I'll borrow Agent Iza, who gets naueseous at the sight of blood, back from Trojie for a little while...)


I think we're going to have to keep a very close eye on the Unclaimed and Claimed Badfic pages for the next few weeks, though - they're liable to explode...

I'm already wishing I hadn't been so grumpy in that post. Then again, Pads is always the one telling me I've been too nice to people, so maybe this is good for me...

Either way, I just want to say I'm calmer now that I got all that out of my system, so I hope I haven't been excessively offensive - just offensive enough to make my point.

In the thread below, a lot of people have volunteered their beta-reading skills for the non-Sue mission challenge. Considering how hard a time I, at least, have with beta-ing PPC missions for fandoms I don't know, I thought it'd be helpful to have a list of available betas and the fandoms they are able to cover.

For myself, I can beta anything in the following fandoms:
* Star Trek (all series)
* Wicked
* Harry Potter
* Lord of the Rings (though I'm less knowledgeable about Silmarillion and HoME-era pieces)
* Stardust
* Star Wars
* Pirates of the Caribbean
* Back to the Future
* Twilight (yes, yes - shut up),
* Enchanted
* practically anything Disney
* the Mummy
* Pride & Prejudice
* and many others, but I can't list them all.

I'd appreciate it if anyone requiring a beta or offering their services could make a post here, and list either the fandoms they know or the fandoms of the mission needing beta-ing, as needed.

(This really should go on the wiki, too, now that I think about it. I'll go and take care of that later.)

So I'd have to say no, but that's just my opinion, so feel free to disregard it if you want. Just that I've always figured a Sue, by its very nature, drags the story down; if it's a good character, it isn't a Sue.

I think the most interesting missions are the ones that deal with unique problems. Some of these are Sue missions of course, but many are not.

The main problem with Sue missions seems to be that the only problem the agents are facing is that there's a Sue in the story, and the only solution used is to kill the Sue. That gets repetitive. (Bad Slash missions that go "Observe, optionally get squicked, exorcise, neuralyze" are similarly formulaic.)

Whereas, if there are unique complications, it gets more interesting. Bumbling agents, "unique" grammar, mischievous minis, hostile environments, equipment malfunction, personality conflicts... the list goes on. Whether there's a Sue to kill or not, the mission can't just be about killing her. We've seen that already. A lot. It was new when TOS was written; but it's not new now, and we can't just keep copying what's been done ten times already.

It's tough to really find a fic that fits the bill and isn't a Legendary, but that is an interesting approach. We've been sort of treating the one we're working on now as an escort mission, getting the canons through the chapters without being horribly murdered. Progress has been slow because we've both been busy, especially Spud, but we're still chipping at it.

Voting for Makari and VM!

And voting for Sedri again just because. XD

I think that this would probably be DAVD territory, yes. The original DAVD dealt with torture/murder fics generally, but this kind of fic sounds right up their alley--you know, where the injuries are simply extreme and gory, or else minimized to the point that you've got canons who should be dead but are being forced to walk around and act pretty much normal.

My suggestion: Transfer an agent from Medical and have them go on field missions with the goal of keeping the canons alive. Think of them as something like the PPC's version of a paramedic. I can definitely see them carrying bleepphene injectors for the more painful cases.

So far, everyone seems to have been very polite and sorry and apologetic about this, but quite frankly, Pads, I disagree. I think you're being melodramatic and perching precariously on a high horse of double standards. I'll start by saying right out that I'm probably taking this more personally than the others - I consider you my friend, not just a fellow PPCer - but I'm angry with you. I'll try to be objective nonetheless, but no promises.

Firstly, I'm going to echo what the others have said: This is the first I've heard of ANYONE around here not knowing what the DBS is. ever. Considering that it's in the Original Series and mentioned very often in other missions as well as here on the Board, I don't see how it's possible for anyone but a very green newbie not to know. I don't know who asked you that question in the Loungue, but why are you taking that as an indication of what the community as a whole thinks?

Second, as Neshomeh said, you haven't made it nearly clear enough that you think change is needed, let alone made specific suggestions. You haven't even really been around - lurking, maybe, but if you want a change, you need to contribute more than a rant-like post every so often. It's hard to get things moving around here, and I don't think it's fair that you sit back in silence for months on end and then say this. I knew you weren't exactly thrilled with how things are right now, but I had no idea you were this disgruntled, and we talk off-Board, yet the only person who seemed to have a real idea of your mindset was Trojie. Why did you have to up and leave so suddenly - couldn't you have made a "change is needed and I'm really tempted to leave" post first? I realise you've been unhappy for a while, but this whole post sounds like a knee-jerk reaction to one little incident - which, to be quite frank, is something I can see you doing on impulse and regretting later.

Next point: I've listened to you talk about 'more than just killing' and have spent months thinking about how I could remedy that in my own missions at least. Though I haven't had time to actually write it yet, my next pieces is going to involve Agent Sedri being rebuked for her bloodthirsty tendencies and sent into several non-Sue missions. I regret that my early missions - the first one in particular - were so graphically violent and killing-oriented. If this were any other kind of story I'd take them down and re-write, but the nature of the PPC isn't too condusive to that (given how easily our characters can become aware of being written themselves). I don't like slash and probably never will, but I'm more than willing to try sending Agent Sedri into a bad slash mission, and if that doesn't work, I plan to try crossovers. You don't object to crossovers, do you? After all, that Department isn't particularly well-known... Oh, but I'll bet no one is surprised to hear me mention it. How odd.

Fine, fine, I'll stop with the sarcasm. Try this: You have an aversion to Sues. I have an aversion to slash. Where do you get off telling me that I'm in the wrong? I have read slash missions, you know - yours, and others'. I've read slash stories as a favour to you and Trojie, though I've never liked them. Despite cringing at the bad grammar, I've read TOS - several times. I'm sorry, Pads, but I'm seeing a rather blatent double-standard here.

Also, I'm sorry that gruesome and violent deaths have become too much. It's true; they have. But let's not forget that Jay and Acacia inflicted some truly horrible deaths on their targets, and no one seems to be scolding them for that. Why am I feeling attacked here?

Yes, Miss Cam needs a beta, too. Everyone needs a beta - even I, even you, and you're the Grammar Nazi Queen. Even so, betas don't catch everything. Miss Cam's work is readable, and there's a dramatic difference between her errors and those of a chatspeak-writing fanbrat who clearly doesn't care at ALL. I'm not excusing those errors - it's the responsibility of every writer to get a beta - but you're being too hard on her, on everyone. If you feel personally insulted for not being consulted... well, too bad. Get over it. I'll remind you that you don't have to read it, and you don't have to like it just because others like it and call it "legendary"; there are some fanfics out there with very bad presentation that I read anyway because the story is so good - I've offered to beta and been turned down, but I still read because the story is worthwhile. If it upsets you that the wiki directs people to Miss Cam as a good example, change it. Make a comment in the article or delete the link. No one will object,

Also, no life? Why do you think I'm not here half the time? And if seeing the problems in my missions and actively seeking to correct them isn't considered 'grown up', then what is? Perhaps you didn't mean me when you said "the majority of you". You probably didn't; you probably meant the large number of newbies whom you haven't even talked to.

Of course it was noticed when you stopped writing - or don't you recall that people were asking about your missions, some putting a great deal of effort into trying to find them? Ah, but maybe you weren't around the Board at the time. Still, how often are particular PPC authors actually sought out like that? I'll tell you, no one has asked why I stopped writing; I guess my missions just weren't interesting enough. Oh, well. I'm not fussed. Why are you? I realise you put a lot of work into it - I've seen it - but the PPC is still supposed to be FUN, not about getting recognition. If I send my agent to the Department of Crossovers and in six months, a newbie reacts with surprise at the mention of the name, would I have a right to be upset? Probably not.

Last, even if you have excellent counter-arguments for everything I've said here, I don't see how you storming out like this is going to help matters, unless you think the shock value and making people feel guilty is going to manage it. If you want to leave, fine - I'll miss you, but it's your choice. But leaving like this... Maybe you don't see it as storming out, but I do. Text without tone or body language has a funny way of coming across differently than one might intend.

I don't want to be angry at you, Pads. You're my friend, and despite the acerbity of your post, it seems like you meant it to come across as a fairly even-handed explanation. It just didn't come across that way to me, likely because, as said, I'm taking this personally, or am just reading too much into this. I don't know.


...That's probably everything. At the very least, I'm out of words. I know I'll probably regret some of this and won't have made myself clear enough about other bits and will end up explaining myself or taking various things back, but right now, this is what I think.

Welcome to the Board! Please deposit your sanity in the provided receptacle. *indicates bucket marked "Warg Fodder"* You shan't need it here.

If it's not 100% OOC, it's still a canon and hasn't been replaced, which usually means possession, which means exorcism and subsequent beaning the 'wraith over the head with a copy of the canon.

It's much easier to find badfic in the pit than to find goodfic, and yet it's ignored solely because it doesn't have OCs listed.

My partner and I are currently in the middle of a mission, but if we can get that one finished on time, then I've found JUST the fic for us to do next.... Muahahhahhahahaha *ehem*

Though it may send both our Agents in search of Bleepsinth.

Or, in other words "Oh god, my eyes! they burn like fresh habanero juice on my bangs, that in turn get into my eyes!" (which actually happened last spring... Yes, this fic is that bad. At least to us...)

The guys do have to splat a Stu, but it's primarily Bad Slash. Just a oneshot, no overarching plot. Sweeney Todd fandom, rated PG-13/R-ish for violence and rape.
http://chelonianmobile.livejournal.com/107198.html

I do have a potential sporkable for the challenge, but I'm probably going to need to borrow someone's agent or agents for it, as one of its primary crimes is the mutilation of a Nine Inch Nails song. Stormsong and Skyfire really hate Nine Inch Nails, and I kinda wanna do something with them without my own assassins lurking around with them - they need to stand on their own a bit. Any volunteers?

And been largely ignored, except for Pretzel.

Send what you have to me for grammar, vocab, all that, but style and wisdom I have none of. Sorry.

Glad to know that I'm not the only one that secretly thinks to herself: "Is this whining? Maybe. Probably. Uh, yeah."

Who is Makari? I would vote for him/her, but I didn't even know Makari existed, so I'm not sure.

I understand where Pads is coming from, and Pads being Pads, I respect her completely. However, just because she leaves, I am not going to drop the one story I have painstakingly been trying to scratch out without a complete fail, and rush-produce something before Halloween.

My plans do include stories that are not all Sue killing, but, heck, I might not even make it there. I might just become so full of failures I stop trying.

--feeling optimistic--

And that's called Life. And sometimes they'll be right. That's Life too.

Have fun wherever you go, cussin' and all.

But let's get this straight: Sue killing is not all newbies learn. When I looked up the Wiki articles, it was clear that Bad Slash missions didn't involve Sue killings. We're not quite so far gone as you think, but probably further gone than I think- oh well, too late.